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Fire Bowman Part III

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Old
04-03-2013, 11:57 AM
  #676
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Hansen View Post
Of course not.

It's playoff performance that matters. At the end of the day you can't reasonably expect your team to win the Cup, given how hard that is to do and the parity in today's NHL. But if the Hawks go down in, say, the first two rounds, serious questions need to be asked. Because that would be pretty inexcusable in light of this lack of real activity and apparent happiness to leave holes on the roster as is.
Absolutely. If Bolland continues to be inconsistent as our #2 pivot and nothing is done to correct it this summer, Bowman isn't doing his job. He believes that Bolland is the guy for the job. It'll be a mark against him if it doesn't work.

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04-03-2013, 11:57 AM
  #677
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Originally Posted by UsernameWasTaken View Post
The point is that laying the blame for failing to win the Stanley Cup (a rare achievement) solely on the feet of the GM (which certain people here are insistent on doing) is completely idiotic.

Bowman is certainly not in line for any GM of the Year award...but anyone who thinks that he alone is at fault for us losing in the first round last year apparently wasn't watching very closely.
This I would disagree with; but more due to the nature of the award being based on the regular season rather than the capabilities of Stan Bowman.

He might not win, but I do think he'll be a finalist for GM of the Year.

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04-03-2013, 11:58 AM
  #678
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Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
I'm trying to illustrate the urgency to make a move. All I keep hearing is that the team is in 1st and is fine. I don't know how to get through to people that it is far from fine. Yes, they are a contender but damn, that record is blinding people to the urgency to go for it right now and win the ****ing thing. It's just so damn important and this team really does need the help, no matter how impressive they have been.
Sure. That makes total sense. Saying this team is a 5 seed that got lucky with the lockout doesn't.

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04-03-2013, 11:59 AM
  #679
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At the end of the day I have to agree with the general premise of coldsteel's argument.

No, the Hawks are not a #4/5 "type of roster," not even close. They are where they belong.

But given the age of 4 out of the 6 best players on the team, the Hawks have a window. It's not an unlimited one. You do what you can to get the team in the best position to win when they're in that window, as the Hawks are. A #2C would solve what most agree is the last real hole on the roster... thus, obviously, giving the team an even better shot at the Cup.

If you have to give up an early round draft pick and a good prospect, it's worth it. Saad and Teravainen aren't going anywhere. None of the trades this deadline have involved players anywhere near their caliber coming back to the sellers.
The Hawks have a deep prospect pool. Ideally Bowman takes advantage of that and gives the team the best chance to win now possible, as is the most appropriate route to be taking.

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04-03-2013, 11:59 AM
  #680
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Originally Posted by Illinihockey View Post
No other GM had to completely tear down their roster after 1 year on the job either. Also, none of those guys were locked in. All of them signed extensions with Bowman at the helm and in the case of Hossa, he was the guy Bowman targeted (with Tallon wanting Havlat).
Again, I'm trying to not to 'bash' Stan. But you gotta call a spade a spade. He inherited the most loaded GM position that I've seen in my lifetime of watching professional sports. I can't think of anything that is even close actually.

He did have to tear down the outer edges of the roster, and that afforded him oodles of picks and prospects to do that with. The great thing for him is - he had about 5 years worth of picks across 2 drafts (2010 &2011), and he didn't even have to fill any premium roles with them.

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04-03-2013, 12:01 PM
  #681
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Hansen View Post
At the end of the day I have to agree with the general premise of coldsteel's argument.

No, the Hawks are not a #4/5 "type of roster," not even close. They are where they belong.

But given the age of 4 out of the 6 best players on the team, the Hawks have a window. It's not an unlimited one. You do what you can to get the team in the best position to win when they're in that window, as the Hawks are. A #2C would solve what most agree is the last real hole on the roster... thus, obviously, giving the team an even better shot at the Cup.

If you have to give up an early round draft pick and a good prospect, it's worth it. Saad and Teravainen are going nowhere. None of the trades this deadline have involved players anywhere near their caliber coming back to the sellers.
The Hawks have a deep prospect pool. Ideally Bowman takes advantage of that and gives the team the best chance to win now possible, as is the most appropriate route to be taking.
Yup. I think Bowman believes Bolland can play that roll and has made his bed with that premise this year. If it doesn't work and he does nothing to fix it, absolutely tear into him. I'll be right there with you.

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04-03-2013, 12:02 PM
  #682
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Originally Posted by Sir Psycho T View Post
Don't care about regular season standings. Last year the Hawks had the best record in the NHL at about the half way point. Then came that nice little 9 game losing streak and another 1st round exit in the playoffs.

Until this team has success in the playoffs and I mean win atleast 2 rounds I am skeptical about the roster and not happy Bowman has yet to address a hole that has been here for 3 years. This isn't a new problem or one no one can quite figure out, its obvious to everyone except Bowman, or Bowman knows about it and refuses to fix or or he knows about it and can't fix it. Either way has Chris Hansen said, another early playoff exit and there are some serious questions to be asked of Bowman.
Do you think he rebuilt the role players on this team or not? That was, as you said, his job.

If you want to wait until the playoffs to judge whether or not he did it, that's fine.

But then saying anything about it right now, especially about firing him, is absolutely pointless.

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04-03-2013, 12:03 PM
  #683
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Originally Posted by Sevanston View Post
This I would disagree with; but more due to the nature of the award being based on the regular season rather than the capabilities of Stan Bowman.

He might not win, but I do think he'll be a finalist for GM of the Year.
GM of the year for doing what? This is still Dale's team for the most part.

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04-03-2013, 12:04 PM
  #684
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Originally Posted by Sevanston View Post
This I would disagree with; but more due to the nature of the award being based on the regular season rather than the capabilities of Stan Bowman.

He might not win, but I do think he'll be a finalist for GM of the Year.
For doing what? Signing Rosival

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04-03-2013, 12:05 PM
  #685
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Originally Posted by Sarava View Post
GM of the year for doing what? This is still Dale's team for the most part.
Wat? Tallon drafted Kane, Toews, Hjalmarsson and traded for Sharp.

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04-03-2013, 12:07 PM
  #686
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Originally Posted by Sarava View Post
GM of the year for doing what? This is still Dale's team for the most part.
For having the best record in the league.

Like I said, the award isn't really about the capabilities of the GM. It's about regular season accomplishments, of which the Hawks have many.

Being a finalist for regular season award doesn't make Stan one the best GMs in the league; it's just another flawed award the NHL gives out.

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04-03-2013, 12:07 PM
  #687
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarava View Post
GM of the year for doing what? This is still Dale's team for the most part.
Outside of Hossa, it's Dale's core. The tertiary pieces are all Bowman.

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04-03-2013, 12:08 PM
  #688
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevanston View Post
Do you think he rebuilt the role players on this team or not? That was, as you said, his job.

If you want to wait until the playoffs to judge whether or not he did it, that's fine.

But then saying anything about it right now, especially about firing him, is absolutely pointless.
I haven't said fire him. I have said his lack of filling the obvious hole on this team for going on 3 years now is frustrating. I am also not happy with some of his other moves and question the build of this team in terms of playoff success. Not saying fire him, but am not signing his praises for keeping a strong team together as his crowning achievement.

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04-03-2013, 12:08 PM
  #689
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Originally Posted by Illinihockey View Post
Wat? Tallon drafted Kane, Toews, Hjalmarsson and traded for Sharp.
And signed Hossa. Everyone credits Bowman for that but Tallon was still the GM at the time.

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04-03-2013, 12:09 PM
  #690
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Originally Posted by Sir Psycho T View Post
For doing what? Signing Rosival
What special thing did Gillis do when he won in 2011? Sign Malhotra?

Armstrong last year won it just for firing the coach.

It's not that great of an award. Just because I think Bowman will be a finalist for it doesn't change anything about his tenure.

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04-03-2013, 12:09 PM
  #691
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And signed Hossa. Everyone credits Bowman for that but Tallon was still the GM at the time.
he was dead in the water at that time.

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04-03-2013, 12:09 PM
  #692
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Psycho T View Post
I haven't said fire him. I have said his lack of filling the obvious hole on this team for going on 3 years now is frustrating. I am also not happy with some of his other moves and question the build of this team in terms of playoff success. Not saying fire him, but am not signing his praises for keeping a strong team together as his crowning achievement.
And as long as this is the viewpoint we profess, it's utterly ludicrous that we take so much crap for it.

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04-03-2013, 12:09 PM
  #693
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Originally Posted by Ace Rothstein View Post
And signed Hossa. Everyone credits Bowman for that but Tallon was still the GM at the time.
Tallon wanted Havlat, its why there was that big twitter blow up after the opening of free agency and Tallon was fired two weeks later.

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04-03-2013, 12:10 PM
  #694
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace Rothstein View Post
And signed Hossa. Everyone credits Bowman for that but Tallon was still the GM at the time.
It's documented that Tallon wanted to pay Havlat instead.

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04-03-2013, 12:10 PM
  #695
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Originally Posted by madgoat33 View Post
he was dead in the water at that time.
True. But he was the GM. He presumably did the negotiation. Apparently some people upstairs told him to go after Hossa despite the fact that he wanted Havlat.

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04-03-2013, 12:11 PM
  #696
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Originally Posted by DisgruntledHawkFan View Post
Outside of Hossa, it's Dale's core. The tertiary pieces are all Bowman.
Are Bolland, Seabrook, Keith, and Hossa not part of the core now?

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04-03-2013, 12:12 PM
  #697
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True. But he was the GM. He presumably did the negotiation. Apparently some people upstairs told him to go after Hossa despite the fact that he wanted Havlat.
So he gets credited for signing a player he didn't want and had to be ordered to sign? Makes sense.

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04-03-2013, 12:12 PM
  #698
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Hansen View Post
And as long as this is the viewpoint we profess, it's utterly ludicrous that we take so much crap for it.
Again, I totally agree. Like with every religion or political group, extremists on either end taint the moderates with their crazy.

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04-03-2013, 12:13 PM
  #699
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Originally Posted by Sir Psycho T View Post
I haven't said fire him. I have said his lack of filling the obvious hole on this team for going on 3 years now is frustrating. I am also not happy with some of his other moves and question the build of this team in terms of playoff success. Not saying fire him, but am not signing his praises for keeping a strong team together as his crowning achievement.
I can understand all of this. My mistake for thinking you said fire him.

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04-03-2013, 12:13 PM
  #700
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So he gets credited for signing a player he didn't want and had to be ordered to sign? Makes sense.
Huh? I didn't say Tallon gets credit. I don't care about Tallon. But Bowman doesn't get credit either... it was a signing he had little if anything to do with. He wasn't the GM.

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