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In-season Proposals, Rumors, Free Agents & Roster Moves (related topics) XXXV

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Old
04-04-2013, 06:05 PM
  #176
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Originally Posted by Colorado Avalanche View Post
Jones could solve a lot of problems with this team, but winger would be great as well. We are in win-win situation, unless we draft another center. Then we are ****ed.
No, we're not. Centers get moved to the wing all the time, see: Kessel, Parise, Giroux (pre-Richards/Carter trade), Huberdeau, Bergeron, etc.

Pierre Lacroix once had a quandary where he had five good centers in Quebec and so decided to deal Mats Sundin for Wendel Clark. Well, that deal didn't exactly work, but he flipped Clark for Claude Lemieux, and that ended up being a great trade for us.

Bottom line, if we do end up drafting a superstar center, it might be a problem but it's a good problem to have. My only concern about drafting someone like MacKinnon is that it probably means Ryan O'Reilly is as good as gone.

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04-04-2013, 06:08 PM
  #177
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I don't think Zanon or O'Brien's contracts are unmovable if the Avs wanted to move them. Especially in this off-season with the cap drop. There will be teams who need to dump a defenseman due to salary but will still want a cheaper NHL calibre defencemen to fill the hole.

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04-04-2013, 07:14 PM
  #178
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I don't think Zanon or O'Brien's contracts are unmovable if the Avs wanted to move them. Especially in this off-season with the cap drop. There will be teams who need to dump a defenseman due to salary but will still want a cheaper NHL calibre defencemen to fill the hole.
There is one problem with this statement, and that's you considering Zannon a 'NHL caliber defencemen'.

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04-04-2013, 07:39 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by Pierce Hawthorne View Post
Trade them, buy them out, waive them, whatever.
I don't think there is a 4th choice. Looking at your first three, do you see any trade value in these guys? I see zero. Buy them out? Sounds good, but given the Avs frugality over the past few years and no playoff money this year, do you realistically see a buy out? Especially with Jones' $12M sitting there?

As for waiving them, isn't there a rule that if veteran players are waived, that the team is still on the hook for their salary?

I honestly don't mean to be a downer guys, but Sherman has put the Avs in a pickle here. These two guys simply stink, and they're under contract next season for a team with a limited budget. They're going to be regulars on the roster next season, I'm afraid. Sorry if that's "glass half full" to you, but it's very likely reality to all of us, and I tend to put weight in reality.

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04-04-2013, 09:27 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by ABasin View Post
I don't think there is a 4th choice. Looking at your first three, do you see any trade value in these guys? I see zero. Buy them out? Sounds good, but given the Avs frugality over the past few years and no playoff money this year, do you realistically see a buy out? Especially with Jones' $12M sitting there?

As for waiving them, isn't there a rule that if veteran players are waived, that the team is still on the hook for their salary?

I honestly don't mean to be a downer guys, but Sherman has put the Avs in a pickle here. These two guys simply stink, and they're under contract next season for a team with a limited budget. They're going to be regulars on the roster next season, I'm afraid. Sorry if that's "glass half full" to you, but it's very likely reality to all of us, and I tend to put weight in reality.
Glass half empty you mean? Zannon I could really see being bought out or waived eventually if they think someone might claim him or next season if Siemens and/or Jones (If drafted) push their way into the lineup.

Siemens is a bit of a long shot to make the club without an AHL stint, but his defensive game has grown immensely, and hes big mobile and physical. He definitely has the tools.

Siemens - EJ

Hejda - Jones

O'Brien - Barrie

I only put Jones there because he could benefit from a sound veteran partner while Barrie will have more experience. If we get lucky enough to pickup Smid or another left handed defensive guy.

Smid
Hejda
Siemens

could be our left side next year, with O'Brien and Hunwick being 7/8 guys leaving no room for Zannon regardless of his salary. I'm just saying it's possible, at the very least.

Hunwick has been a fairly good soldier, and if kept to a bottom pairing role. He'll be fine... Zannon has been **** regardless of how hes used.

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04-04-2013, 09:40 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
Glass half empty you mean?
LOL, yes. Sorry, long day.

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Zannon I could really see being bought out or waived
I wouldn't mind seeing that, but can you really see the Avs eating salary like that? Would be great.

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04-04-2013, 10:13 PM
  #182
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LOL, yes. Sorry, long day.



I wouldn't mind seeing that, but can you really see the Avs eating salary like that? Would be great.
Only if hes pushed out of the lineup and off the roster all together. There is at least some chance of that happening at least.

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04-04-2013, 10:24 PM
  #183
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Didn't smid resign last week or something.

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04-04-2013, 10:25 PM
  #184
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Didn't smid resign last week or something.
Yes.

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04-04-2013, 11:07 PM
  #185
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What are you talking about lol? If the Flames would have traded their first to us there is no way in hell they'd sell off Iggy and J-Bo?
Just because they picked up ROR wouldn't automatically mean they kept those 2 guys if they were still sucking like they have. ROR just would have been one of the key pieces to there core moving forward, essentially becoming there Top 3/5 pick this year.


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04-04-2013, 11:17 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by ABasin View Post
I don't think there is a 4th choice. Looking at your first three, do you see any trade value in these guys? I see zero. Buy them out? Sounds good, but given the Avs frugality over the past few years and no playoff money this year, do you realistically see a buy out? Especially with Jones' $12M sitting there?

As for waiving them, isn't there a rule that if veteran players are waived, that the team is still on the hook for their salary?

I honestly don't mean to be a downer guys, but Sherman has put the Avs in a pickle here. These two guys simply stink, and they're under contract next season for a team with a limited budget. They're going to be regulars on the roster next season, I'm afraid. Sorry if that's "glass half full" to you, but it's very likely reality to all of us, and I tend to put weight in reality.
There is a 4th choice, if they get outplayed at training camp they can be sent back down to the AHL without passing waivers(Im fairly certain).

Its not a problem to move these guys if we have to. But there contracts aren't franchise debilitating. Hunny only has 1 year left at a very small 1.6M. Zanon's is slightly worse at 2.25M but still only 1 year left as well.

And IMO Hunwick is not a bad 6/7 guy. In fact I wouldn't mind keeping him around as that 6/7 guy. his problem is playing a role far to difficult for him to play. Zanon is useless, but again he can be buried if we have to. Ideally, I would like to see this for our pairings next year(Assuming we draft Jones)

Wilson - EJ
Hejda - Barrie
Scuderi - Jones

Ease Jones into the lineup playing other teams bottom lines. Give him lots of PP time to start the year and eventually lots of PK time. Start him with an established vet who is very responsible defensively. Eventually start working him on the Left side to prepare him for next year, and starting next year Jones and EJ make up the top pairing playing 25+ mins a night.

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Old
04-05-2013, 09:29 AM
  #187
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Originally Posted by Pierce Hawthorne View Post
There is a 4th choice, if they get outplayed at training camp they can be sent back down to the AHL without passing waivers(Im fairly certain).
I thought the new CBA had some protection for veteran players getting banned to the AHL, because of what happened to Redden, etc. I'm not a CBA geek though.

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Its not a problem to move these guys if we have to. But there contracts aren't franchise debilitating. Hunny only has 1 year left at a very small 1.6M. Zanon's is slightly worse at 2.25M but still only 1 year left as well.
They are the same contracts as this season, and those guys are playing. Why will it be different next season?

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04-05-2013, 09:39 AM
  #188
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I thought the new CBA had some protection for veteran players getting banned to the AHL, because of what happened to Redden, etc. I'm not a CBA geek though.
You can still put a player on a one-way contract in the AHL in the current CBA. A club just can't escape a cap hit by placing an NHL contract in the minors. If the Rangers put Redden in the minors this year, he could play there no problem, the Rangers wouldn't receive any cap relief for doing so though.

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04-05-2013, 09:55 AM
  #189
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Originally Posted by JeffFingerDiscount View Post
You can still put a player on a one-way contract in the AHL in the current CBA. A club just can't escape a cap hit by placing an NHL contract in the minors. If the Rangers put Redden in the minors this year, he could play there no problem, the Rangers wouldn't receive any cap relief for doing so though.
Actually, the max rookie salary is allowed to be buried on a one way contract. So ~900k or so?

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04-05-2013, 09:59 AM
  #190
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Originally Posted by JeffFingerDiscount View Post
You can still put a player on a one-way contract in the AHL in the current CBA. A club just can't escape a cap hit by placing an NHL contract in the minors. If the Rangers put Redden in the minors this year, he could play there no problem, the Rangers wouldn't receive any cap relief for doing so though.
Ah, OK. Thank you for the clarification. So, if the Avs sent Zanon to the AHL, he'd still count against their Cap, and they'd still have to pay him in full. I have that correct?

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04-05-2013, 10:00 AM
  #191
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Actually, the max rookie salary is allowed to be buried on a one way contract. So ~900k or so?
I believe it's quite different for veteran players and entry-level one-way contracts. Again, CBA nuances aren't my forte.

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04-05-2013, 10:17 AM
  #192
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Actually, the max rookie salary is allowed to be buried on a one way contract. So ~900k or so?
Correct, all salary above $900k for a player in AHL counts against the NHL teams cap.

It's purely an academic discussion. I don't think Avs ever buried a player in AHL or bought out a player. There are only two realistic ways for Avs to deal with a bad contract. Either suck it up and play the guy until the contract expires or trade him.

They're not the Rangers/Leafs. They don't have the financial philosophy of the Rangers/Leafs. They don't have the financial muscle of Rangers/Leafs.

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04-05-2013, 10:22 AM
  #193
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I believe it's quite different for veteran players and entry-level one-way contracts. Again, CBA nuances aren't my forte.
As far as I'm aware, you can bury that salary regardless of being a veteran or non-waiver eligible young player.

So VDG is 'buriable' whereas McLeod if he cleared waivers is not 100% 'buriable'.

We bought out Preissing a few years ago.

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04-05-2013, 01:12 PM
  #194
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They are the same contracts as this season, and those guys are playing. Why will it be different next season?
Because next year the contracts will be expiring. Once teams know where they stand after FA, Draft, and resigning their players for 2013-2014, experienced guys with reasonably low cap hits like Zanon and Hunwick should be a little easier to move.

Too much uncertainty with teams adding players at this deadline whose contracts carry into next year with the cap going down. Worst case scenario is Avs get stuck til the deadline and send them out as rentals. By then Elliott and maybe Siemens should be able to come up and contribute.

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04-05-2013, 01:16 PM
  #195
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Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
Correct, all salary above $900k for a player in AHL counts against the NHL teams cap.

It's purely an academic discussion. I don't think Avs ever buried a player in AHL or bought out a player. There are only two realistic ways for Avs to deal with a bad contract. Either suck it up and play the guy until the contract expires or trade him.

They're not the Rangers/Leafs. They don't have the financial philosophy of the Rangers/Leafs. They don't have the financial muscle of Rangers/Leafs.
The Avs bought out Tom Preissing. Though, your overall point remains.

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04-05-2013, 01:59 PM
  #196
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Didn't smid resign last week or something.
Ahh I forgot about that, I'm basing it off the possibility that we have could have enough guys next year to push him out of the lineup though. Especially if we sign one free-agent.

RH-D)

EJ
Barrie
Jones (Maybe)

LH-D)

Hejda
Free-agent
Wilson
O'Brien
Hunwick

With Siemens and possibly Jones vying for roster spots. So with one of Jones (If we draft him) or Siemens that's 8 defenders without Zannon. That's not even considering any improvement Elliott may show if he bulks up a bit in the off-season.

So if we draft Jones, I'd say Zannon is gone for sure IMO.

I'd love to see,

Scuderi - EJ

Hejda - Barrie

Wilson - Jones

O'Brien/Hunwick

as our 8 D next year, with Siemens & Elliott as our top pair in the minors.


Last edited by CobraAcesS: 04-05-2013 at 02:09 PM.
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04-06-2013, 09:29 PM
  #197
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So like, let's say we don't win the lottery and get Drouin instead of Seth, does Sherman then consider pulling a varly-esque trade for the final piece? Say our 2014 first pick and a second for someone like Kulikov, a young EJ partner that could keep growing? With a real coach, that's a team I would bet on making the playoffs, so the first would be an acceptable loss.

Drouin - Dutchy - PAP
Skogger - ROR - Downie
McGinn - Stastny - Jones/Sgarbossa when he falls off the wagon
Bordy - Olver - McCleod

Kulikov - EJ
Hejda - Barrie
O'Brien - Wilson/Elliott when he gets hurt

Varly


Last edited by cgf: 04-06-2013 at 09:51 PM.
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04-06-2013, 09:58 PM
  #198
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Imho, we don't need to get that defender if we bring in the right coach. Yes, our defense will suck. But if the forwards are playing the right system, we're putting out the right matchups and we keep shots to the outside, we could be a playoff team with this defense. I know it sounds absurd, but the forwards not backchecking and everyone skating around aimlessly is as big a problem as our current defenders are.

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04-06-2013, 10:00 PM
  #199
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Imho, we don't need to get that defender if we bring in the right coach. Yes, our defense will suck. But if the forwards are playing the right system, we're putting out the right matchups and we keep shots to the outside, we could be a playoff team with this defense. I know it sounds absurd, but the forwards not backchecking and everyone skating around aimlessly is as big a problem as our current defenders are.
We could but that'd be a lucky bubble team. If we went hard after that real EJ partner our whole defense would fall into place and be on its way to becoming excellent.

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04-06-2013, 10:10 PM
  #200
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I would still do Staz for defenseman.

TPS, won't like this, but I would've done rights of Subban for the rights of RoR without thinking twice and I am a huge ROR fan.

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