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[EDIT] Bob Murray needs to do something.

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04-03-2013, 10:33 AM
  #251
Dirk316
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What would be considered a failure for Murray and the ducks this season?
First Round exit? 2nd rd sweep? If they just don't make the playoffs? (Obviously they are) so is this season a success no matter what even if they lose due to not filling clear holes

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04-03-2013, 10:39 AM
  #252
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Originally Posted by douglast5 View Post
Based on the lack of anything that has happened today. It doesn't seem like theres many players in the pool.
I expect less movement than in recent years, because there's been quite many trades leading up to today. But it's still early, next to no movement yet seems pretty normal to me. Most trades should be announced the last couple of hours prior to the deadline, and the first couple of hours afterwards.

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04-03-2013, 10:44 AM
  #253
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Originally Posted by Dirk316 View Post
What would be considered a failure for Murray and the ducks this season?
First Round exit? 2nd rd sweep? If they just don't make the playoffs? (Obviously they are) so is this season a success no matter what even if they lose due to not filling clear holes
I guess it depends. Locking up the division seems like a good possibility still, which would mean us at 3rd, with home ice. It's a weird season with lots of outcomes possible. We could end up playing a few very tough teams there, like Los Angeles or St. Louis against which we would not be much of a favourite, and against which going out wouldn't make for a disappointment of a season, regardless of the favouring position going in. But there's plenty other teams in there that we could face against which a first round exit would certainly be a disappointment.

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04-03-2013, 10:56 AM
  #254
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Originally Posted by Dirk316 View Post
What would be considered a failure for Murray and the ducks this season?
First Round exit? 2nd rd sweep? If they just don't make the playoffs? (Obviously they are) so is this season a success no matter what even if they lose due to not filling clear holes
This is a failure if we lose in the first two rounds IMO. It's especially a failure if Murray loses first two rounds because he didn't address the same obvious need that we've had forever.

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04-03-2013, 10:58 AM
  #255
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This is a failure if we lose in the first two rounds IMO.
Way too early to say that.

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04-03-2013, 10:59 AM
  #256
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My brain is telling me, he doesn't need to do anything, but I have a feeling if he does nothing, he'll regret it.

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04-03-2013, 11:05 AM
  #257
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The 2 clear weakness we all agree on are 2c and physical veteran stay at home dman with Fowler
The 3rd weakness is the coach refusal to dress a tough 4th line that obviously is only shared by a few of us

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04-03-2013, 11:07 AM
  #258
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Originally Posted by AngelDuck View Post
This is a failure if we lose in the first two rounds IMO. It's especially a failure if Murray loses first two rounds because he didn't address the same obvious need that we've had forever.
After reading some stuff you're posting tell me, you genious, what kind of player should we adress while not trading away significant future? This franchise hit the ground hard after the runs. We were lucky that our core was young and I believe we will not make the mistake again. Without unlimited cash in the background prospects and pics are the basement of this franchise. Even when you consider that a lot of UFA don't want to sign here. We can not fill holes by signing a hometownplayer who takes a discount. If we want an impact player we have to give up in the proper manner. Sure we have the pieces to make the move BUT I don't want to see one of our young studs go!

While some here throw Sbisas or Bonino's name out there I seriously ask myself whom you would expect in return?

Bob will only make a bigger trade if the player coming to us is 1) someone who will play here for some years 2) on a good and manageable contract 3) available for a solid price! And he is right to do so! I just wanna see the reactions if he goes all in for a rental, pays a big price and the rental does not work! Some posters here just want to have a nice entertainment on deadline day and do not want to improve the franchise, at least it seems so!

I know we have some holes to fill and I wonder what a player like Bogosian would cost.

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04-03-2013, 11:12 AM
  #259
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Originally Posted by Markus078 View Post
After reading some stuff you're posting tell me, you genious, what kind of player should we adress while not trading away significant future? This franchise hit the ground hard after the runs. We were lucky that our core was young and I believe we will not make the mistake again. Without unlimited cash in the background prospects and pics are the basement of this franchise. Even when you consider that a lot of UFA don't want to sign here. We can not fill holes by signing a hometownplayer who takes a discount. If we want an impact player we have to give up in the proper manner. Sure we have the pieces to make the move BUT I don't want to see one of our young studs go!

While some here throw Sbisas or Bonino's name out there I seriously ask myself whom you would expect in return?

Bob will only make a bigger trade if the player coming to us is 1) someone who will play here for some years 2) on a good and manageable contract 3) available for a solid price! And he is right to do so! I just wanna see the reactions if he goes all in for a rental, pays a big price and the rental does not work! Some posters here just want to have a nice entertainment on deadline day and do not want to improve the franchise, at least it seems so!

I know we have some holes to fill and I wonder what a player like Bogosian would cost.
At some point you need a gm to not always have the rebuild mentality and this year is a rare opportunity to make a run that may not happen again for a while.
As the top Murray cheerleader you are the last person who should be attacking someone for an opinion

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04-03-2013, 11:18 AM
  #260
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Originally Posted by Markus078 View Post
After reading some stuff you're posting tell me, you genious, what kind of player should we adress while not trading away significant future? This franchise hit the ground hard after the runs. We were lucky that our core was young and I believe we will not make the mistake again. Without unlimited cash in the background prospects and pics are the basement of this franchise. Even when you consider that a lot of UFA don't want to sign here. We can not fill holes by signing a hometownplayer who takes a discount. If we want an impact player we have to give up in the proper manner. Sure we have the pieces to make the move BUT I don't want to see one of our young studs go!

While some here throw Sbisas or Bonino's name out there I seriously ask myself whom you would expect in return?

Bob will only make a bigger trade if the player coming to us is 1) someone who will play here for some years 2) on a good and manageable contract 3) available for a solid price! And he is right to do so! I just wanna see the reactions if he goes all in for a rental, pays a big price and the rental does not work! Some posters here just want to have a nice entertainment on deadline day and do not want to improve the franchise, at least it seems so!

I know we have some holes to fill and I wonder what a player like Bogosian would cost.
We've rebuilt through the era that Getzlaf and Perry were on beautiful contracts...I disagree with that philosophy. I just don't think it's smart to waste those years. At what point is Murray ever going to try to win a cup? He's rebuilt the system for long enough...now it's time to compete. I know you'll support Murray no matter what, but the guy has been great at making lateral moves in his time in Anaheim. He rarely ever makes a move that pushes the organization forward for better or for worse. He never actually tries to significantly make the team better. Instead he makes a whole bunch of nothing trades like Steckel for a 7th or Rosehill for Harry Z. Like I've said in this thread before, I'll give him until the end of the day before I completely blast him, but based on his track record in the past, I'm not confident that he's the right guy to help this team compete for a cup in the near future

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04-03-2013, 11:20 AM
  #261
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Originally Posted by Dirk316 View Post
At some point you need a gm to not always have the rebuild mentality and this year is a rare opportunity to make a run that may not happen again for a while.
As the top Murray cheerleader you are the last person who should be attacking someone for an opinion
Sure he should address the needs but it's not a failure if he does not when the price is too high. I don't understand why the window is limited to this season. This team will only get better. The run in the future may not be as good but this team is suited for a upper spot in the standings.

I'm for sure not Murrays top cheerleader but I like the work he has done. If you put all pieces together he has his strengths and his weaknesses. Personally I like his work and the team he put together in the front office!

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04-03-2013, 11:23 AM
  #262
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Originally Posted by Markus078 View Post
Sure he should address the needs but it's not a failure if he does not when the price is too high. I don't understand why the window is limited to this season. This team will only get better. The run in the future may not be as good but this team is suited for a upper spot in the standings.

I'm for sure not Murrays top cheerleader but I like the work he has done. If you put all pieces together he has his strengths and his weaknesses. Personally I like his work and the team he put together in the front office!
It isn't limited to this season, but this is the best chance we have in the near future probably. With Koivu, Beauchamin, and Souray playing at such a high level, now is the time to fill the other needs and try to win a cup with those veterans. Their play could tail off at anytime. Might as well capitalize on them being so good this season

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04-03-2013, 11:25 AM
  #263
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He never actually tries to significantly make the team better.
I thought trading Pronger, trading for Vish, for Whitney or for Beauch (no matter what happend before) are pretty big trades. He is doing a lot of small stuff but we hit gold with Beauchemin and I think he just tries to find players who fit and break out.

The second line center we need is someone like Bergeron or Krecji. We have to move a siginificant piece - most likely Bobby Ryan - do you want to move him? Some of the players available that would fit are on western teams. The price within the conference would be high.

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04-03-2013, 11:31 AM
  #264
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I thought trading Pronger, trading for Vish, for Whitney or for Beauch (no matter what happend before) are pretty big trades. He is doing a lot of small stuff but we hit gold with Beauchemin and I think he just tries to find players who fit and break out.

The second line center we need is someone like Bergeron or Krecji. We have to move a siginificant piece - most likely Bobby Ryan - do you want to move him? Some of the players available that would fit are on western teams. The price within the conference would be high.
Beauchemin has been good, but don't forget, we gave up a first line capable winger who puts up a point per game in Lupul, and one of our best defense prospects in Gardiner. Those are facts. Whether you want to debate if Beauchemin was worth those two is up to you. His biggest mistake in this situation was not re-signing Beauch in the first place. He should not have let such a valuable player walk via FA. hen two years later he goes and gives up a very good winger and prospect. He made a mistake...not necessarily by trading for Beauch, but for not re-signing him. The Pronger trade was good...I've admitted that in the past. He had to make that move. Trading for Vish was great, but Kunitz for Whitney looks awful. Kunitz would look great in our top 6 right now. So there's another lateral move.

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04-03-2013, 11:47 AM
  #265
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Originally Posted by AngelDuck View Post
Beauchemin has been good, but don't forget, we gave up a first line capable winger who puts up a point per game in Lupul, and one of our best defense prospects in Gardiner. Those are facts. Whether you want to debate if Beauchemin was worth those two is up to you. His biggest mistake in this situation was not re-signing Beauch in the first place. He should not have let such a valuable player walk via FA. hen two years later he goes and gives up a very good winger and prospect. He made a mistake...not necessarily by trading for Beauch, but for not re-signing him. The Pronger trade was good...I've admitted that in the past. He had to make that move. Trading for Vish was great, but Kunitz for Whitney looks awful. Kunitz would look great in our top 6 right now. So there's another lateral move.
Blink, blink.

Ummm... Lupul was in the doghouse and relegated to the third line. As for Gardiner, he may have been our best defensive prospect, but according to our scouts, he was nowhere near NHL ready. Plus, we had Schultz make a meteoric rise; making Gardiner expendable. Thus the trade occurred and we got the old Beauch back, all in his great prime and still is. I dunno, maybe you might be recalling nostalgia.

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04-03-2013, 11:52 AM
  #266
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Blink, blink.

Ummm... Lupul was in the doghouse and relegated to the third line. As for Gardiner, he may have been our best defensive prospect, but according to our scouts, he was nowhere near NHL ready. Plus, we had Schultz make a meteoric rise; making Gardiner expendable. Thus the trade occurred and we got the old Beauch back, all in his great prime and still is. I dunno, maybe you might be recalling nostalgia.
Lupul was injured. Look how he's playing with Carlyle as his coach now (PPG player). That excuse just doesn't work now when you consider how he's played with the same coach, in the same system in Toronto

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04-03-2013, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Dirk316 View Post
The 2 clear weakness we all agree on are 2c and physical veteran stay at home dman with Fowler
The 3rd weakness is the coach refusal to dress a tough 4th line that obviously is only shared by a few of us
There's a reason for that.

We're not going to get a stay-at-home d-man unless we're able to trick someone into taking Allen off of our hands.

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04-03-2013, 11:55 AM
  #268
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How does that discredit me?
Vancouver got Roy for very little, that is a fact, the Ducks have the assets to beat a deal like this, that is another fact. With the Stars pretty much throwing in the towel why would it matter if the teams are in the same division at that point?

If Murray can address the center situation by tomorrow I will gladly eat crow but we are not going to win anything without any production from the 2nd line
I don't know how I could make this any clearer. You statement below accuses Murray of not doing something he easily could have and should have done. You have no effing idea how much effort BM put into trying to do something. But you acuse him of "missing the boat" because a guy you wanted didn't land here. That's why you have no credibility.

It's one thing to have an opinion. It's quite another to accuse the GM of missing the boat just because you didn't get what you want. If you hate BM just say so.

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The price on Derek Roy was cheap, Murray flatout missed the boat.

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04-03-2013, 11:59 AM
  #269
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Lupul was injured. Look how he's playing with Carlyle as his coach now (PPG player). That excuse just doesn't work now when you consider how he's played with the same coach, in the same system in Toronto
Lupul was healthy when he got traded. His play in Toronto is unprecedented. NO ONE expected him to play like that here and most thought playing for Carlyle was the problem. I'm so tired of the analysis of this after the fact considering how things changed with Schultz.

Beauch is having a Norris-type season. I'll trade that for oft-injured Lupul and oft-demoted Gardiner 100 more times.

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04-03-2013, 12:17 PM
  #270
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When GM's are trading, they are using scouts and their own opinions and estimates.


Pretty easy to judge something on hindsight once you know all the facts and how the player turns out.

I am sure the guy who waived St.Louis would be kicking himself now. The fact is they don't know how everything is going to turnout, so they do their best guess. If BM best guess is doing nothing then he won't do anything, only later will we know the outcome.

Maybe at the end of the year people will say hey if we got Roy we would have won the cup, or people praise him for not getting Roy because he was a dud or gets hurt.

Hindsight is 20/20, but doing trades is always cloudy and unknown.

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04-03-2013, 12:24 PM
  #271
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What would be considered a failure for Murray and the ducks this season?
First Round exit? 2nd rd sweep? If they just don't make the playoffs? (Obviously they are) so is this season a success no matter what even if they lose due to not filling clear holes
I wouldn't say any of the above would be consider a failure. We were ranked pre season as one of the worst teams and ended up as one of the tops. We have so many players under 25 as well, if anything he exceeding expectations.

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04-03-2013, 12:35 PM
  #272
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I wouldn't say any of the above would be consider a failure. We were ranked pre season as one of the worst teams and ended up as one of the tops. We have so many players under 25 as well, if anything he exceeding expectations.
Nobody thought this team was going to have win 24 games all year let alone with 12 games left to go. We were only 18-23-7 after 48 games last year. Yeah our expectations go up as we stay atop the division and near the top of the conference but we can't start thinking it's a Cup or bust. I think we're capable of going deep and at the very least make it out of the first round.

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04-03-2013, 01:35 PM
  #273
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Not sure if its been posted but Stephens says Ducks are hoping Bonino starts to skate next week. Might be good enough news for today.

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04-03-2013, 02:40 PM
  #274
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There he did something. /thread

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04-03-2013, 02:43 PM
  #275
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There he did something. /thread
Wasn't Crosby though, fire Murray!

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