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Trade Proposals/Free Agency and Rumors 2012/13 Part III

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Old
04-17-2013, 04:14 PM
  #626
bluechipbonzo
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Originally Posted by redbull View Post
Stalberg isn't much better than Ullstrom. Good size, great wheels, works hard - Stalberg's got a bit more offense in his game but not significantly.

I'm not sure Stalberg makes the Islanders a better team so I don't see a point in paying UFA prices for him.

I can't believe I'm saying this - BUT, I think the Isles are "FINE"

I don't think they need to add anything in the off-season. I've ranted for the past four years (at least) that they need at LEAST TWO forwards, TWO dmen and a goalie....but they don't anymore. (except they'll need to replace Nabokov no later than the end of next season - I'd guess)

I think Hickey, Visnovsky have provided the two defensemen they always needed.

Bailey-Okposo are playing like the two forwards they've needed and the other two forwards are probably best suited to Strome or Nelson or Niederreiter or Ullstrom or Sundstrom or someone else in the system already.

I don't think there are any trade or UFA options.

In a salary-dumping cap-dropping kind of way, I'd love to land a Hossa-type "star" player for the top line, the type of player I'd gladly give up a Strome/Nino for in a trade - but that's not likely going to happen.

Same for defense. If a #1 becomes available (which is unlikely) then I'd go for it....but otherwise, we have better option$ internally (finally).
Wait- are you suggesting that the majority of the Islanders roster will be made up of players drafted by Garf?

That what we'll be icing is a team built primarily from within?


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Old
04-17-2013, 04:18 PM
  #627
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
While I would welcome a trade that bougt in a 20 something star like Ryan, I want no part of adding 34 yr old Hossa at the cost of Strome/Nino/top prospect. Isles aren't at the point where they've made the playoffs a few times, gained experience and are 1 player away from winning it all in the next 1-2 seasons.

I'd hoped to see Streit brought back, but doubt it'll happen at this point. Some gm is going to throw silly money at him, at 3-4 yrs.
Didn't mean literally HOSSA, rather, an example of a player who's an elite-player, in (or close to) their prime, that clearly makes the Islanders a better team, a clear first line player. The Islanders don't have many of them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie Daggers Crime View Post
What planet are you on, man?
big picture: both 6'3" 200-210lbs, both great skaters, both work hard, similar offensive ability.

Ullstrom is 23, Stalberg is 27.

Ullstrom has been far better in the AHL than Stalberg was at the same age.

Stalberg had a 20 goal season at 26 when his top linemates were Toews, Kane and Sharp.

Besides that, I don't see anything in Stalberg's game that's a significant upgrade over Ullstrom - and NOT CLOSE to what Nelson, Strome, Niederreiter have the POTENTIAL to deliver as early as next season.

I watched Stalberg in Toronto quite a bit and he's not that good. He's got wheels but very poor vision and hockey sense (like Bergenheim). Is he better than Ullstrom? probably. But not by much. I'd take Ullstrom over the next four years, at his price-tag, over what we can expect to pay Stalberg on the open market. This is the type of player the Islanders need to stay away from in the UFA market...an average player, with ONE good season, that we'd have to overpay to get, that doesn't make us better.

I'm thankful Snow hasn't signed any such deals since he's been in charge (albeit probably because he cannot sign them because of Wang and the budget)

Stalberg might become the next team's Scott Gomez (though not as bad). I'd stay away.

Frankly, I feel the same about Clowe. He's looking really slow and on a rapid decline.

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Old
04-17-2013, 05:13 PM
  #628
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Originally Posted by redbull View Post
Besides that, I don't see anything in Stalberg's game that's a significant upgrade over Ullstrom - and NOT CLOSE to what Nelson, Strome, Niederreiter have the POTENTIAL to deliver as early as next season.
That's fine. Stalberg is a 20 goal scorer in the NHL. Ullstrom is a prospect in the AHL. Stalberg is significantly better than Ullstrom.

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04-17-2013, 05:25 PM
  #629
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Originally Posted by redbull View Post
I watched Stalberg in Toronto quite a bit and he's not that good. He's got wheels but very poor vision and hockey sense (like Bergenheim). Is he better than Ullstrom? probably. But not by much.
No offense, but c'mon, you are smart enough to know that you can't judge a player by how they perform in their first pro season out of college. It has been 3 years since Stalberg was a Leaf, I would seriously hope he has developed as a player since then.

And I don't know how you can say that Ullstrom was far better in the AHL at the same age since Stalberg only played 39 total AHL games and scored 33 points.

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04-17-2013, 05:49 PM
  #630
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Depth is fine, we need a first line RW for Tavares and a 2nd Line Center and I guess given the Islanders internal budget they will only have cash for one of those 2 positions
It's essentially, what's better than Boyes and what will he cost? Second, will the isles pay UFA/Trade for that 2nd line center. Third, if Streit moves on, Isles will need to allocate resources towards the backline.

I still see Isles leveraging the cap cushioning players (Wiz, Viz, etc.). If Briere is confident he's gonna be bought out and Isles move into the second round of playoffs, based on them qualifying, then he's better than Boyes, will retain his salary, stay "local" and helps Wanger save bucks.

Although the "local" argument was used extensively for Giguiere and he's moved around quite extensively to keep playing.

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04-17-2013, 06:18 PM
  #631
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Originally Posted by kasper11 View Post
No offense, but c'mon, you are smart enough to know that you can't judge a player by how they perform in their first pro season out of college. It has been 3 years since Stalberg was a Leaf, I would seriously hope he has developed as a player since then.

And I don't know how you can say that Ullstrom was far better in the AHL at the same age since Stalberg only played 39 total AHL games and scored 33 points.
We can agree to disagree on Stalberg. I see a player who is a bit better than Ullstrom and not anyone I'd chase in the UFA market because he doesn't make the Isles better. Not more than Strome, Niño or Nelson would next season.

Stalberg scored 20 goals once, so what. He's no first line player - wont improve the NYI. Bad value as a UFA.

Curious what you or RDC would pay for Stalberg? Where would he fit?

I see a bottom six guy. Just like Ullstrom.

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04-17-2013, 06:22 PM
  #632
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Originally Posted by blitzkriegs View Post
It's essentially, what's better than Boyes and what will he cost? Second, will the isles pay UFA/Trade for that 2nd line center. Third, if Streit moves on, Isles will need to allocate resources towards the backline.

I still see Isles leveraging the cap cushioning players (Wiz, Viz, etc.). If Briere is confident he's gonna be bought out and Isles move into the second round of playoffs, based on them qualifying, then he's better than Boyes, will retain his salary, stay "local" and helps Wanger save bucks.

Although the "local" argument was used extensively for Giguiere and he's moved around quite extensively to keep playing.
There's a report on the Flyers board, that before getting his concussion in practice (just before the trade deadline ), Briere refused to waive his NTC.

I am sure the Flyers would rather trade him for future considerations, then have to buy Briere out.

But, if you are Briere, wouldn't you rather be bought out, then shop your services to the teams closest to the Philly area: Pens, NJ, NYI, and the NYR ?

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04-17-2013, 07:59 PM
  #633
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
There's a report on the Flyers board, that before getting his concussion in practice (just before the trade deadline ), Briere refused to waive his NTC.

I am sure the Flyers would rather trade him for future considerations, then have to buy Briere out.

But, if you are Briere, wouldn't you rather be bought out, then shop your services to the teams closest to the Philly area: Pens, NJ, NYI, and the NYR ?
If NYI approach PHI and offer compensation for Briere, talk with Briere, then Briere gets certainty of money, location, and team. The other option via the buyout and become an UfA does not provide that certainty. What if those teams lack interest in him because of health, money, and/or term? Then he's stuck "out of area" where he could have had certainty.

Just playing out what could be a beneficial scenario for him and Isles. It may never come to that.

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04-17-2013, 08:27 PM
  #634
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redbull View Post
We can agree to disagree on Stalberg. I see a player who is a bit better than Ullstrom and not anyone I'd chase in the UFA market because he doesn't make the Isles better. Not more than Strome, Niño or Nelson would next season.

Stalberg scored 20 goals once, so what. He's no first line player - wont improve the NYI. Bad value as a UFA.

Curious what you or RDC would pay for Stalberg? Where would he fit?

I see a bottom six guy. Just like Ullstrom.
Yeah, i'm surprised about this fanfare with Stalberg. His career has mirrored Comeau's at this point lol...except Comeau had 24 goals with a poor cast of characters. Look at what Comeau's doing now. Stalberg is definitely NOT an upgrade.

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04-17-2013, 09:09 PM
  #635
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Put Briere on JT's wing and you'll some silly good stuff. Even if it is only for a year before some rapid decline.

It would be a shadow of things to come when Strome is ready.

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04-17-2013, 10:06 PM
  #636
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Originally Posted by redbull View Post
Curious what you or RDC would pay for Stalberg? Where would he fit?
Never said I would pay anything for Stalberg. Just making a point that Stalberg is an NHL regular that can contribute while Ullstrom isn't yet ready for primetime. This isn't potential, this is now.

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04-17-2013, 10:12 PM
  #637
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What does everyone expect the defense to look like next year?

With Streit:

MacDonald-Hamonic
Hickey-Visnovsky
Streit-Carkner
Strait

Without:

MacDonald-Hamonic
XXX-Visnovsky
Hickey-Carkner
Strait

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04-17-2013, 10:49 PM
  #638
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLAPSHOT723 View Post
What does everyone expect the defense to look like next year?

With Streit:

MacDonald-Hamonic
Hickey-Visnovsky
Streit-Carkner
Strait

Without:

MacDonald-Hamonic
XXX-Visnovsky
Hickey-Carkner
Strait
Strait is definitely above Carkner and probably even hickey on the depth chart.

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04-17-2013, 10:56 PM
  #639
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLAPSHOT723 View Post
What does everyone expect the defense to look like next year?

With Streit:

MacDonald-Hamonic
Hickey-Visnovsky
Streit-Carkner
Strait

Without:

MacDonald-Hamonic
XXX-Visnovsky
Hickey-Carkner
Strait
I think the second is the more likely option, with Strait filling in the xxxxs, and Donovan being the 6th/7th guy working his way into the lineup. Finley will also probably be here as the 8th guy.

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04-17-2013, 11:10 PM
  #640
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLAPSHOT723 View Post
What does everyone expect the defense to look like next year?

With Streit:

MacDonald-Hamonic
Hickey-Visnovsky
Streit-Carkner
Strait

Without:

MacDonald-Hamonic
XXX-Visnovsky
Hickey-Carkner
Strait
a lineup with streit is better than one without it.

streit's last 10 games: 1 g, 8 a, 9 pts, even

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04-17-2013, 11:47 PM
  #641
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Originally Posted by redbull View Post
I can't believe I'm saying this - BUT, I think the Isles are "FINE"

I don't think they need to add anything in the off-season. I've ranted for the past four years (at least) that they need at LEAST TWO forwards, TWO dmen and a goalie....but they don't anymore. (except they'll need to replace Nabokov no later than the end of next season - I'd guess)

I think Hickey, Visnovsky have provided the two defensemen they always needed.

Bailey-Okposo are playing like the two forwards they've needed and the other two forwards are probably best suited to Strome or Nelson or Niederreiter or Ullstrom or Sundstrom or someone else in the system already.

I don't think there are any trade or UFA options.

In a salary-dumping cap-dropping kind of way, I'd love to land a Hossa-type "star" player for the top line, the type of player I'd gladly give up a Strome/Nino for in a trade - but that's not likely going to happen.

Same for defense. If a #1 becomes available (which is unlikely) then I'd go for it....but otherwise, we have better option$ internally (finally).
More surprises. They still need a wing for John which I see you would welcome too, but no changes on defense? Our biggest general problem this season is GA, and it comes down directly on the defense, it's lack of skilled size, and overall defensive ability. I like Hickey and Vis as well, but there is no true #1 offensive defenseman in the system, and we really need Hamonic's twin in addition to that.

None of the defensive prospects are stepping in and and playing like top four next year or the year after. They really need to bridge that gap if they want to build off the momentum of this year.

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Old
04-18-2013, 12:09 AM
  #642
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Originally Posted by islandermaniac View Post
a lineup with streit is better than one without it.

streit's last 10 games: 1 g, 8 a, 9 pts, even
The report is that Streit wants 3 years. Set aside the last 10 games and look at the big picture. 1 year? Fine... Three? Um.

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04-18-2013, 12:39 AM
  #643
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Originally Posted by Richie Daggers Crime View Post
The report is that Streit wants 3 years. Set aside the last 10 games and look at the big picture. 1 year? Fine... Three? Um.
without streit, this team takes a step back. there is nothing on the ufa market to replace him as he is the best defenceman available. the only way this team moves forward without streit is with a major trade. i'll believe that when i see it. so what are the isles to do with streit? nothing? let him walk? i believe retaining streit IS looking at the big picture.

honestly, people need to get over the dollars involved when it comes to professional sports contracts. people like to apply their middle and working class way of thinking to the reality that is professional sports. bozak wants just as much money and greater term than streit. he'll likely get it, too. so if a tweener top 6/top 9 forward like bozak is going to get as much as a 20 minute per night defenceman who is top 8 in blue liner scoring, wouldn't the team owning the rights of the rear guard in question be pretty damn happy? when examining things in that light, streit would be a bargain for 3 years around $15M.

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04-18-2013, 12:46 AM
  #644
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without streit, this team takes a step back. there is nothing on the ufa market to replace him as he is the best defenceman available. the only way this team moves forward without streit is with a major trade. i'll believe that when i see it. so what are the isles to do with streit? nothing? let him walk? i believe retaining streit IS looking at the big picture.

honestly, people need to get over the dollars involved when it comes to professional sports contracts. people like to apply their middle and working class way of thinking to the reality that is professional sports. bozak wants just as much money and greater term than streit. he'll likely get it, too. so if a tweener top 6/top 9 forward like bozak is going to get as much as a 20 minute per night defenceman who is top 8 in blue liner scoring, wouldn't the team owning the rights of the rear guard in question be pretty damn happy? when examining things in that light, streit would be a bargain for 3 years around $15M.
Lets forget that Streit is not that good defensively anymore. There is no way in hell that Streit puts up the numbers he is putting up now in 2 years time. Age is just simply going to catch up.

The absurdity of the money these guys make really doesn't bother me. The reality that Streit will have to play for the next three years if he is making 5 million per does. You can't saddle this lineup with Streit for three years. ONe year okay, two years, maybe, but three is too many.

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04-18-2013, 12:49 AM
  #645
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without streit, this team takes a step back. there is nothing on the ufa market to replace him as he is the best defenceman available. the only way this team moves forward without streit is with a major trade. i'll believe that when i see it. so what are the isles to do with streit? nothing? let him walk? i believe retaining streit IS looking at the big picture.

honestly, people need to get over the dollars involved when it comes to professional sports contracts. people like to apply their middle and working class way of thinking to the reality that is professional sports. bozak wants just as much money and greater term than streit. he'll likely get it, too. so if a tweener top 6/top 9 forward like bozak is going to get as much as a 20 minute per night defenceman who is top 8 in blue liner scoring, wouldn't the team owning the rights of the rear guard in question be pretty damn happy? when examining things in that light, streit would be a bargain for 3 years around $15M.
It's not applying middle income salaries to professional athletes salaries. It's the fact that a salary cap exists that teams need to work within. And the Islanders have an even smaller internal cap.

If you had $50M to spend on a team per year, are you OK with paying Streit one-tenth of that 3 years from now?

If it were allowed, I wouldn't care if Tavares got paid 1 billion per goal. As long as that price doesn't affect our ability to sign other players.

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04-18-2013, 02:07 AM
  #646
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chad larose for the 3rd line RW, clarkson or ryder/bouchard for the top line RW

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04-18-2013, 08:22 AM
  #647
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Originally Posted by 13th Floor View Post
It's not applying middle income salaries to professional athletes salaries. It's the fact that a salary cap exists that teams need to work within. And the Islanders have an even smaller internal cap.

If you had $50M to spend on a team per year, are you OK with paying Streit one-tenth of that 3 years from now?

If it were allowed, I wouldn't care if Tavares got paid 1 billion per goal. As long as that price doesn't affect our ability to sign other players.
if a $5M team captain mark streit can't be signed by the islanders without fear of destroying the nyi's salary structure, there is not a single hope for the future of the franchise.

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04-18-2013, 08:26 AM
  #648
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Originally Posted by Renbarg View Post
Lets forget that Streit is not that good defensively anymore. There is no way in hell that Streit puts up the numbers he is putting up now in 2 years time. Age is just simply going to catch up.

The absurdity of the money these guys make really doesn't bother me. The reality that Streit will have to play for the next three years if he is making 5 million per does. You can't saddle this lineup with Streit for three years. ONe year okay, two years, maybe, but three is too many.
so two options in your opinion: (1) let him walk and replace him from within where the team will miss him dearly (despite what the haters will say) (2) make a trade of picks and prospects for a real replacement for streit which would prevent the team from taking a step back.

now, i don't know about you, but the nyi have given this fan precious little reason to believe that #2 will come to fruition. if they don't re-sign him then, my money would be on the team moving backward for next season.

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04-18-2013, 10:10 AM
  #649
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Originally Posted by islandermaniac View Post
if a $5M team captain mark streit can't be signed by the islanders without fear of destroying the nyi's salary structure, there is not a single hope for the future of the franchise.
He wants John Tavares money for 3 years do you think he is worth that? The guy is 35 they have matt Donavan ready to take his spot. Reinhart will be ready the next year. The islanders are trying to get away from puck movers, who are poor on defense. Hence why they are not likely to kichton.

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04-18-2013, 10:21 AM
  #650
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so two options in your opinion: (1) let him walk and replace him from within where the team will miss him dearly (despite what the haters will say) (2) make a trade of picks and prospects for a real replacement for streit which would prevent the team from taking a step back.

now, i don't know about you, but the nyi have given this fan precious little reason to believe that #2 will come to fruition. if they don't re-sign him then, my money would be on the team moving backward for next season.
By not signing Streit they are moving backwards? Dont argee with that. Has he been great lately; absolutely. Was he poison for the 100 games before that; Absolutely. Things are going so well for the Islanders right now, everyone looks like they deserve money and contracts. To easy to fall in love right now...

Isles have been hot over the last 15 games, because we arent giving up goals. The last 10 games he has been great, but dont forget the previous 100 games when he was -45 and a direct contributor to our pitiful goals against. All depends on what Streit you are going to get, but not signing him doesnt mean we are moving backwards. We will miss his transition game and PP time, but that could be offset by not giving up as many goals. Tough decision for Snow...

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