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[2013] [TB/OTT] Ben Bishop to TB for Cory Conacher and a 4th round pick

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Old
04-03-2013, 03:16 PM
  #201
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Originally Posted by officeglen View Post
On March 20th you did say, in another Bishop to Tampa thread:

Now he's a need for your team?
I've been a fan of a team that suffered years of bad goaltending. Even Dan Cloutier looks like a legit starter after a while. The affliction many Tampa fans have is similar to what we had in Vancouver before Lou, that they have in Toronto, what they had last year in C-Bus, and other cities. You don't know how big an impact an elite player at the position can make until you have them. Many Tampa fans were too young to even remember Khabby....and thus they can be forgiven for their ignorance.

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04-03-2013, 03:17 PM
  #202
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Originally Posted by sky04 View Post
Because of his draft position?

Conacher had the higher ceiling IMO, he has a lower skillset but much more vision and hockey IQ. Conacher has shown he can mesh with our top lines.
I don't agree with this at all. Connolly projects, if developed properly, into a 30-goal Patrick Marleau type (maybe their sad-looking faces add to that comparison). Those don't grow on trees, and I think his development is a big part of the Lightning's prospects going forward

Skillset is a huge part of a ceiling. Marty isn't Marty just because he has a big heart, he also has elite quickness, hands and reflexes. Cory's a hard worker and a good player, but not a high-ceiling guy as far as I'm concerned.

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04-03-2013, 03:19 PM
  #203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sky04 View Post
Because of his draft position?

Conacher had the higher ceiling IMO, he has a lower skillset but much more vision and hockey IQ. Conacher has shown he can mesh with our top lines.

yeah draft position is one thing. oh, and like...numbers and stats? those things too.

to be honest, there is a large chance that conacher's 2011-2012 AHL stats are an apparition, since his numbers have never been that impressive before.

connolly's got the pedigree, broseph. and if im picking between one of them, im going to go by numbers and not like my visceral feelings and which one has INTANGIBLES

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04-03-2013, 03:27 PM
  #204
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Originally Posted by Marcel Cousineau View Post
Nothing like a trade that sets a franchise back a few years, eh boys?
Please explain how this sets up back a few years. CC is a hell of a player, but the Bolts have loads of potential NHL quality forwards.

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04-03-2013, 03:33 PM
  #205
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FWIW Goalie Guild dude likes it, or at least doesn't think it sucks:

http://www.thegoalieguild.com/2013/0...oalie-tracker/

Quote:
Bishop, however, has already established that he’ll play, and thrive, within that positional blueprint. He already executes the quiet, economical, size-first butterfly fairly well, so I feel that may have played a big role in the Lightning making the trade for Bishop. I’d have to believe when they scouted him over the past month, that aspect of style vs. substance between the two goalies was a big part of Tampa Bay’s internal discussions.

I also feel as if Bishop will have enough time this season to get comfortable playing within the Lightning’s system. This is clearly an unknown; nobody can truly predict how many games it will take him to get comfortable, but he’s already playing quite well, he has been playing in the Eastern Conference all season, and there’s just under a month of hockey left to play.

So not only does April act as an opportunity for Yzerman to determine what type of upside or contract extension Bishop deserves, it’s an opportunity for Bishop to work with goalie coach Frantz Jean and put a stranglehold on the starting role with the Lightning for next season, and possibly beyond.

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04-03-2013, 03:36 PM
  #206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sky04 View Post
Because of his draft position?

Conacher had the higher ceiling IMO, he has a lower skillset but much more vision and hockey IQ. Conacher has shown he can mesh with our top lines.
Has nothing to do with his draft position, has everything to do with his pedigree, size, and scoring.

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04-03-2013, 03:37 PM
  #207
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Originally Posted by albatross View Post
Please explain how this sets up back a few years. CC is a hell of a player, but the Bolts have loads of potential NHL quality forwards.
Take what he said with a grain of salt. I learned my lesson the hard way a couple days ago when I debated with a Leafs fan...he told me that because Sid said they have a lot of speed that the Leafs are one of the fastest teams in the league and that every defenseman on Tampa didn't deserve to be in the NHL. I then proceeded to list 8-10 teams with more speed, which he agreed with, but still said that being in the 10-15 range still makes them one of the fastest teams.

Then, he went on to say that Tampa would lose almost every game to divisional rivals next year and that Toronto are one of the best teams in the league because they never lose games by more than 1 goal (excluding empty netters). Further, Toronto are the toughest team to play against and will beat almost anyone in the playoffs because they lead the league in hits, blocks and fighting majors.

Oh, and I almost forgot to mention that he claimed we only have one forward that any team would want (Stammer) and that Marty will be over the hill soon. TJ and Conacher have potential, but everyone else is crap, including the prospects in our system. He then said that the Leafs have WAY more forward depth than us and are scratching players like MacArthur who would easily walk into our top 6. Even without him, they beat Ottawa 3-0, and despite the fact that I told him Ottawa's best three players were all injured, he said it wouldn't have mattered.


Last edited by Kristia: 04-03-2013 at 03:52 PM. Reason: removed unneeded comment
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04-03-2013, 03:37 PM
  #208
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What a joke of a trade, what a ****ing joke

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04-03-2013, 03:38 PM
  #209
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Originally Posted by RussianGuyovich View Post
yeah draft position is one thing. oh, and like...numbers and stats? those things too.

to be honest, there is a large chance that conacher's 2011-2012 AHL stats are an apparition, since his numbers have never been that impressive before.

connolly's got the pedigree, broseph. and if im picking between one of them, im going to go by numbers and not like my visceral feelings and which one has INTANGIBLES
Numbers and stats then you discount Conachers most impressive year right... or the fact Conacher has more points in the NHL in less games? Cmon what are these "numbers and stats".

Conacher the reigning AHL MVP, Connolly isn't even close to ppg in that league yet, Conacher was the leading scorer of the team before he got called up.

And you're absolutely contradicting yourself its not even funny, Conacher's got the pedigree, he's won and lead at the pro level, Connolly has draft position that's about it. Can someone tell me what this " impressive pedigree" Connolly has? world jr's mean squat.

Really do you not get how contradictory your post is?

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04-03-2013, 03:45 PM
  #210
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Looks like you like this guy, but i don't like the idea of adding a small forward. One team may afford one small guy, but not too many.

Hopefully, Conacher will be at least a good asset for a future trade. We will see soon what this guy can do for us!!!

As for Bishop, i think he is a number one. With time, he should even get better. He has done very well for us. I hate to see him in the same division next year.


Last edited by yogibear: 04-03-2013 at 03:46 PM. Reason: fixed typo
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04-03-2013, 03:48 PM
  #211
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In respect to the Connolly/Conacher debate, as I posted in another thread, Cooper obviously had a big hand in the outcome of today's moves. He had the opportunity to coach both and must have seen more in Connolly than Conacher, so we'll just have to trust his judgment.

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04-03-2013, 03:50 PM
  #212
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Originally Posted by sky04 View Post
Numbers and stats then you discount Conachers most impressive year right... or the fact Conacher has more points in the NHL in less games? Cmon what are these "numbers and stats".

Conacher the reigning AHL MVP, Connolly isn't even close to ppg in that league yet, Conacher was the leading scorer of the team before he got called up.

And you're absolutely contradicting yourself its not even funny, Conacher's got the pedigree, he's won and lead at the pro level, Connolly has draft position that's about it. Can someone tell me what this " impressive pedigree" Connolly has? world jr's mean squat.

Really do you not get how contradictory your post is?
Eh I know what you mean in terms of it really hurting to lose Cory, but give credit where credit's due - Connolly has 57 points in 67 games this year, close enough to PPG production, especially considering all the players coming in and out of the lineup.

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04-03-2013, 03:51 PM
  #213
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Senators fan here. I think you guys will really end up liking Big Ben down the road. You'd be hard pressed to find a Sens fan with anything bad to say about him. In fact there's been more *****ing and moaning about Lehner than Bish this season. He's a great team guy and a really solid tender already. The main board was really underrating him but twice he has stepped in and provided starter caliber goaltending for us. He's been a huge part of our success this season with all our injuries.

And don't listen to people calling him a third stringer, we had 3 legitimate goalies that we wanted to keep, but just didn't have room for. It sounds like Conacher was in a similar position with your other young guys showing such promise. It's seems like a win/win deal to me.

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04-03-2013, 03:53 PM
  #214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sky04 View Post
Numbers and stats then you discount Conachers most impressive year right... or the fact Conacher has more points in the NHL in less games? Cmon what are these "numbers and stats".

Conacher the reigning AHL MVP, Connolly isn't even close to ppg in that league yet, Conacher was the leading scorer of the team before he got called up.

And you're absolutely contradicting yourself its not even funny, Conacher's got the pedigree, he's won and lead at the pro level, Connolly has draft position that's about it. Can someone tell me what this " impressive pedigree" Connolly has? world jr's mean squat.

Really do you not get how contradictory your post is?

conacher has one good year, connolly has one bad year. extrapolate from that and you will find happiness

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04-03-2013, 03:59 PM
  #215
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Originally Posted by Still All In View Post
Has nothing to do with his draft position, has everything to do with his pedigree, size, and scoring.
Talkin pedigree, isnt Conacher related to numerous Hall of Famers.

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04-03-2013, 04:03 PM
  #216
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Ben Bishop/Anders Lindback nickname: Benders

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04-03-2013, 04:03 PM
  #217
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Originally Posted by Capital O TEETEE 613 View Post
Talkin pedigree, isnt Conacher related to numerous Hall of Famers.
he means pedigree in more of a background sense than lineage. i.e. playing for world juniors, etc.

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04-03-2013, 04:06 PM
  #218
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I would have been willing to give up Conacher in a package for Ryan Miller. I am extremely displeased with giving up Conacher in a package for Ben Bishop. The fact that we had to give up Conacher AND a pick screams knee jerk reaction. I am guessing they had a solid offer from Philly and Yzerman threw in the pick to get the deal done. I hate it. If Ben Bishop goes on a streak and gets us in the playoffs (somehow?) then the deal will look like it worked out. If we miss the playoffs and struggle again next year, this deal will come back to haunt us.

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04-03-2013, 04:07 PM
  #219
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Big Ben Bishop is a beast. He's been left to dry a few times by the Ottawa defence and has seen some success this season. He is 4-0 in shootouts. He's had 3 bad games in 13 starts. Has kept us in games for sure. You guys will learn to like him. I think he's an upgrade on Lindback.

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04-03-2013, 04:08 PM
  #220
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lecavilier_4 View Post
I would have been willing to give up Conacher in a package for Ryan Miller. I am extremely displeased with giving up Conacher in a package for Ben Bishop. The fact that we had to give up Conacher AND a pick screams knee jerk reaction. I am guessing they had a solid offer from Philly and Yzerman threw in the pick to get the deal done. I hate it. If Ben Bishop goes on a streak and gets us in the playoffs (somehow?) then the deal will look like it worked out. If we miss the playoffs and struggle again next year, this deal will come back to haunt us.
Yeah, I understand giving Conacher (and more) for Ryan Miller, but for Ben Bishop... whatever.

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04-03-2013, 04:09 PM
  #221
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When Anderson went down, Bishop ran away with the opportunity and showed he was a 1b goalie at the LEAST. I'd even go as far as to say that between him and Lehner this season, he was the 1a of the duo.

Bishop found a way to win games when Lehner seemed to have trouble, despite his good stats. You guys aren't gambling very much here as I'd say Bishop is a known commodity.

Conacher on the other hand, one good season in the AHL, and a decent start to the NHL - but do we really know whether this big start was due to Stammer an StLouis? Sure seems like it so far :S.

Not a fan of the trade for Sens.

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04-03-2013, 04:18 PM
  #222
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Bishop interview, http://video.lightning.nhl.com/video...sole?id=235061

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04-03-2013, 04:21 PM
  #223
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FWIW, it could be worse, we could have been Washington

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=419794

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04-03-2013, 04:23 PM
  #224
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goalies are so tricky. aside from the handful of franchises in the midst a decade-plus of not needing to revisit their goalie situation, every other team is looking not just for the right player but to get that player at just the right point in his career. between the time needed to mature into an NHL caliber goalie and the threat of being derailed by physical ailments or a loss of confidence, great goaltending is one of the most elusive assets in the game. heck, while we're bemoaning 2 goalies who are not proven enough on this thread, we're talking about ryan miller being past it in another.

the lightning now have 2 guys who have a shot at being good goalies for a while, along with a decent portfolio of prospects below them. 2 or 5 or 10 average goalies do not equal one elite 'tender, but it sure helps your odds of a satisfactory outcome when the "elite acquisition" route is not feasible. both guys have contract situations that are easy to move on from in a short window if one clearly emerges or the organizational pipeline has a guy knocking on the door.

edit: as far as what we gave up, i think it's been well-covered here...we dealt from our position of greatest strength to try to sort out our biggest weakness. bishop is not a garbage goaltender, so we weren't going to get him by offering up a garbage package. Stevie Y has pulled off some pretty satisfying trade wins (especially when it comes to getting something for dead weight), but not every deal can be painless


Last edited by Off Center: 04-03-2013 at 04:33 PM.
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04-03-2013, 04:25 PM
  #225
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Hmm, he doesn't sound overly excited to come here, though it may have more to do with the fact that he's sad to leave Ottawa

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