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The Luongo Thread: Just The Beginning (mod warning in post #445)

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Old
04-04-2013, 11:54 AM
  #876
blendini
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Originally Posted by slappipappi View Post
If the Canucks reach the spot where they are placing Luongo on waivers with the intention of buying him out, the chances of anyone claiming him is pretty much nil. That ship would have already sailed.

I think if anyone would be willing to take that contract, the Canucks would have already gladly done it.

And I'm not so sure that the Canuck owners will be so quick to write a cheque for (what, $27M?) when it's likley Luongo's contract could have been moved in the summer for some value. Gillis getting greedy and misreading where the market was heading could ultimately cost him his job if the owners feel forced to buy out Luongo so they can field a team next year..
A lot of assumptions here. Is there any real source as to what offer MG ever got for Lu?

Can't see Lu being put on waivers or bought out. The issue is the length of his contract, not his goal tending skills. If he isn't moved by the beginning of next season, I suspect they will trade Schneids and keep Lu. It's not the result that a lot of people want, but it's far better than the alternatives. Before people say "Lu doesn't want to be in Van" I will say: Lu just wants to be a #1 goalie.

Van has some good goalie prospects coming along, so it is likely that one of them will challenge Lu in a few years.

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04-04-2013, 11:56 AM
  #877
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Originally Posted by Beezeral View Post
I can play this game as well.

The Canucks are an overrated franchise that lives off a weak division to take the top seed in the west before flopping in the playoffs every year.

We all know the above statement is a bunch of BS so why sling the same garbage at someone else?

Every year is a new year. Tallon has an excellent track record building teams and has done a very good job with the panthers so far. So excuse me if I hold off on calling for his head after an injury plagued 48 game season.
The difference of course is that I'm not playing games while you're just making excuses for a GM who has not improved your team one bit in a very weak division. Gillis' record speaks for itself, including getting the team to game 7 of the SCF. At best for Tallon we can say that he iced a dreadful team this year. Injuries are part of the NHL. If you're going to come on a Canuck's board taking pot shots at one of the better GM's in the league who just went out and filled a major hole with Roy, then you'd better have thick enough skin to take the heat over your own GM's ineptitude. Tallon's iced one of the worst teams in the NHL this year. Fill your boots with all of the excuses you can come up with. I'll take the GM who wins games.

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04-04-2013, 12:00 PM
  #878
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The owners are not losing money. While yormark is a clown, the actual hockey staff is allowed to only focus on the on-ice product. There is a better chance of the panthers trading every prospect they have for Crosby or something than shipping out markstrom to make room for luongo.
http://voices.yahoo.com/the-florida-...-11922589.html

This article, and many others, show that the Panthers are losing money. They've actually been bleeding money for a number or years, losses between 9-12 million every season. The franchise is worth a measly 165 million dollars right now with poor attendace even with dirt cheap tickets and promotions. The only thing keeping them afloat is a sweet deal on their arena.

Make no mistake, the Panthers are one of the least profitable teams in all of pro sports, you have to take that as fact and into consideration. The Cowboys or Yankees could buy the Panthers for what they probably spend on tape and Gatorade in a year. Again, the fans may not even give it a second thought, but the owner that is losing millions every year and has shown an eccentric side, may see things differently.

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04-04-2013, 12:02 PM
  #879
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Originally Posted by Reign Nateo View Post
http://voices.yahoo.com/the-florida-...-11922589.html

This article, and many others, show that the Panthers are losing money. They've actually been bleeding money for a number or years, losses between 9-12 million every season. The franchise is worth a measly 165 million dollars right now with poor attendace even with dirt cheap tickets and promotions. The only thing keeping them afloat is a sweet deal on their arena.

Make no mistake, the Panthers are one of the least profitable teams in all of pro sports, you have to take that as fact and into consideration. The Cowboys or Yankees could buy the Panthers for what they probably spend on tape and Gatorade in a year. Again, the fans may not even give it a second thought, but the owner that is losing millions every year and has shown an eccentric side, may see things differently.
Panthers are owned by a parent company who also owns the arena. They make their money on the arena events, then use the Panthers to fill in other dates and their losses on running Panthers are then deducted. It's a bit more complicated than that but basically Panthers aren't losing money anywhere but on the books.

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04-04-2013, 12:04 PM
  #880
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
Panthers are owned by a parent company who also owns the arena. They make their money on the arena events, then use the Panthers to fill in other dates and their losses on running Panthers are then deducted. It's a bit more complicated than that but basically Panthers aren't losing money anywhere but on the books.
Interesting.

Does all of that get taken into consideration when the Leafs are forking money over to them?

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04-04-2013, 12:04 PM
  #881
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Originally Posted by Beezeral View Post
I can play this game as well.

The Canucks are an overrated franchise that lives off a weak division to take the top seed in the west before flopping in the playoffs every year.

We all know the above statement is a bunch of BS so why sling the same garbage at someone else?

Every year is a new year. Tallon has an excellent track record building teams and has done a very good job with the panthers so far. So excuse me if I hold off on calling for his head after an injury plagued 48 game season.
I think this year could be the final year of your rebuild... the first overall pick being the closing ceremony... From next year on, I think Florida is looking to assemble a playoff competitive team... what that team looks like is dependent how "The Great Shuffle" next summer (teams shifting their rosters next summer to be cap compliant and plan their teams going forward) works out... I do think that Calgary could give Markstrom a huge offer sheet next summer... one that would be silly for Markstrom not to sign... ROR, I mean, LOL... that Feaster guy is North Korea crazy... and he's got the money, and he's got the nukes... so, if asked, my advice would be not to acquire Luongo, as you could end up with more money tied into goaltending than the Canucks currently have! Funny how the universe works sometimes...


Last edited by I in the Eye: 04-04-2013 at 12:12 PM.
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04-04-2013, 12:06 PM
  #882
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
Panthers are owned by a parent company who also owns the arena. They make their money on the arena events, then use the Panthers to fill in other dates and their losses on running Panthers are then deducted. It's a bit more complicated than that but basically Panthers aren't losing money anywhere but on the books.
I read that the Colorado situation is the same and that the owner doesn't care about the Avalanche as he makes his money on the other sports teams.

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04-04-2013, 12:07 PM
  #883
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Theodore's a Vezina winning goaltender. is that not a good enough mentor?
Jim Carey also once won the Vezina. He lacks consitancy, and this season proved it.

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Fair enough. But I think you can put to rest the thought of acquiring anything more than scraps from Florida.
Most likely, but I am still not putting anything to bed until he is traded.

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04-04-2013, 12:19 PM
  #884
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The whole point of this is for the Leafs to see what they have got in Reimer/Scrivens. NOBODY expects playoff success in Toronto this spring, so it's basically as much as a free pass to failure as you're ever going to see. Remember: there is really only one way for a goalie to get playoff experience - play some playoff games.
that reasoning makes sense for not blowing your brains out on rentals. Perfect sense.

It doesn't make a lick of sense if you have the opportunity to add an impact player, a guy who will be an impact player on your roster for several years (isn't a rental) and can do so at minimal cost. His team will be in the playoffs and with a move that cost virtually nothing he could have given them a much better guarantee of doing something in the playoffs.

It may work out for him and the goaltenders play well. However, if they get bounced early and because of poor goaltending all he has done is put a target on himself. And more to the point by leaking everything he has now given himself one less goaltender to acquire if things don't work out. Gillis likely will not deal with him at all and Luongo sure as hell will no longer agree to a trade there while Nonis is GM. In my mind it was a mistake for him not to make the move from a hockey perspective, but it is definitely a mistake to leak and allow Dreger to detail everything. That was simply beyond stupid.


And scraps from Florida? maybe. Or maybe someone asks to be moved handcuffing Tallon. Maybe Gillis gets the rights to Weiss and signs him before anyone else has a chance or maybe several other things that can happen between now and the summer.

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04-04-2013, 12:25 PM
  #885
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Originally Posted by I in the Eye View Post
I think this year could be the final year of your rebuild... the first overall pick being the closing ceremony... From next year on, I think Florida is looking to assemble a playoff competitive team... what that team looks like is dependent how "The Great Shuffle" next summer (teams shifting their rosters next summer to be cap compliant and plan their teams going forward) works out... I do think that Calgary could give Markstrom a huge offer sheet next summer... one that would be silly for Markstrom not to sign... ROR, I mean, LOL... that Feaster guy is North Korea crazy... and he's got the money, and he's got the nukes... so, if asked, my advice would be not to acquire Luongo, as you could end up with more money tied into goaltending than the Canucks currently have! Funny how the universe works sometimes...
No man. Tallon is terrible. There is no chance the panthers are good next year.

And vanwest. Saying gillis bungled the loungo situation is not a pot shot. It's the truth. He could have gotten decent value, but instead he held on and won't get much at all. The only way to get a positive result out of the loungo situation is to hope loungo helps win the cup. If not it will likely be a huge missed opportunity.

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04-04-2013, 12:26 PM
  #886
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Originally Posted by tantalum View Post
that reasoning makes sense for not blowing your brains out on rentals. Perfect sense.

It doesn't make a lick of sense if you have the opportunity to add an impact player, a guy who will be an impact player on your roster for several years (isn't a rental) and can do so at minimal cost. His team will be in the playoffs and with a move that cost virtually nothing he could have given them a much better guarantee of doing something in the playoffs.

It may work out for him and the goaltenders play well. However, if they get bounced early and because of poor goaltending all he has done is put a target on himself. And more to the point by leaking everything he has now given himself one less goaltender to acquire if things don't work out. In my mind it was a mistake for him not to make the move from a hockey perspective, but it is definitely a mistake to leak and allow Dreger to detail everything. That was simply beyond stupid.
I can understand Toronto not paying alot for Luongo... But if that alleged favour to Luongo (and Gillis swallowed his pride, offering that steal to Toronto) was truly turned down by Nonis... what exactly did Nonis win? It can only go down as one of the stupidest decisions in Toronto Maple Leaf history... He gets praise for the "Luongo trade" here... It could only be praise... It's his defining moment here... Luongo is that good... Funny how not getting Luongo, at that alleged price, would be his monumental blunder... Luongo is that good... and consistantly that good... Both the Luongo deal and the Luongo non-deal cross themselves out, IMO... and years from now, Nonis will be remembered for what he is... An average, mediocre, scared, GM...

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04-04-2013, 12:27 PM
  #887
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Happy Birthday, Roberto Luongo

Big congratz to him. He turns 34 today, wish him all the best and hope he enjoys his birthday after a dreadful day he went through yesterday.


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04-04-2013, 12:27 PM
  #888
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I really don't understand this attitude. Why shouldn't we be able to retain our premiere goaltender that we've drafted and developed and who has dominated every level he's ever played at? Worst case scenario is we don't get an amazing return for Luongo, but we get the cap space and keep Schneider. Best case? We get a good deal. NJD has been getting screwed by their goaltending (Marty is injured and old, Hedberg is just... old), why wouldn't they want the second most consistent goalie in the game to follow their HHOF?

Schneider isn't going anywhere, that would be worse on the organization than keeping Luongo.
Because you don't need Schneider, you're already committed to Luongo. I just think you would have maximized your assets trading Schneider and having Luongo in goal. I mean, don't you think whatever you could have got for Schneider plus Luongo is better than what you've got now?

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Because a GM made a silly decision and extended the current (at the time) #1 goalie for 100 years on a sketchy contract, and then got shafted with a new CBA. Sometimes the situation changes, and therefore so does the plan. Being "stuck" with Luongo for the next 8 years wouldn't exactly be a horrible situation.

But you have to know Gillis would have received several offers for Schneider before this whole mess - it's not like other GM's wouldn't recognize the tough position he's in with Luongo.
Right. Being stuck with Luongo doesn't suck when you've committed to him as the #1.

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Oh okay then. As a Toronto fan, I'm sure you understand the history of Vancouver trades and Gillis' plan.

We'll just trade him in the summer for scraps after we make a playoff run. Luongo is better than Scrivens and the cap space means nothing if you can't acquire anything to fill it. Which Gillis tried to do with Clowe, Torres, Clarkson, etc. Trust me, Schneider isn't going anywhere.
Still seems like a waste of assets to me...

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Originally Posted by LickTheEnvelope View Post
At the time it was the only way to sign Luongo. The other rumoured offers Luongo was likely to see were in the $7 mil/year range +.
Right. Good point.

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People forget that the silly contract saved the team a few million dollars in cap space which helped us get to within one game of the cup.
Another good point. I guess I don't understand when or why Luongo stopped being a #1 goalie. You only need one #1 goalie, you were already committed to a #1 goalie, so trade the other one. It's like how inevitably, right after you get married, hot chicks seem to be available everywhere. Once you sign on the dotted line, don't **** around.

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04-04-2013, 12:27 PM
  #889
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Reading the crap about this Luongo situation on the mainboards really makes me wish that the Canucks can go deep this year. Everyone is already counting them out and laughing at us right now but I hope these players can put it together and prove everyone wrong.

Also never cared for the Leafs before and never understood the dislike for them but now they are up there in my most hated list. Hope their goalies get lit up and their fans continue to be miserable.

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04-04-2013, 12:28 PM
  #890
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I'm sure a canucks fan could of made this thread


hb luo

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04-04-2013, 12:30 PM
  #891
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No man. Tallon is terrible. There is no chance the panthers are good next year.

And vanwest. Saying gillis bungled the loungo situation is not a pot shot. It's the truth. He could have gotten decent value, but instead he held on and won't get much at all. The only way to get a positive result out of the loungo situation is to hope loungo helps win the cup. If not it will likely be a huge missed opportunity.
Ok, fair enough. Saying that Tallon iced one of the worst teams in the NHL is not a potshot. It's the truth. Look at the standings.
If you're happy with the wait for next year stuff every year then good on you. I prefer to ice a good team and win games.

On Luongo, you keep saying that he could have got 'decent value'. Maybe you can tell us exactly what he missed out on then. Or maybe I'm just off base when I don't get excited about such luminaries as Bozak and Scrivens. Maybe I'll look back on this season and say if only we had Scrivens as our backup or Bozak as our 4th center behind Sedin, Kesler and Roy we could have won it all. Or a 'huge missed opportunity' as you say.

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04-04-2013, 12:30 PM
  #892
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Happy Birthday Lu. I kind of hope he starts this game, just because.

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04-04-2013, 12:33 PM
  #893
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I can understand Toronto not paying alot for Luongo... But if that alleged favour to Luongo (and Gillis swallowed his pride, offering that steal to Toronto) was truly turned down by Nonis... what exactly did Nonis win? It can only go down as one of the stupidest decisions in Toronto Maple Leaf history... He gets praise for the "Luongo trade" here... It could only be praise... It's his defining moment here... Luongo is that good... Funny how not getting Luongo, at that alleged price, would be his momumental blunder... Both cross themselves out, IMO... and years from now, Nonis would be remembered for what he is... An average, mediocre, scared, GM...
You're kidding, right?

At the time when he was moved to Vancouver, Luongo was one of the best goalies in the NHL, right in his prime. Now, he's a #2 starter who is 34 and has a contract that lasts until he is well in to his 40's.

Do you see the difference?

It makes no sense for ANY team to take this on unless the price is right - and in this case, Gillis is too stubborn to realize how low that price actually is.

As for the lot of you thinking the Leafs fan base is now erecting statues of Dave Nonis for not getting Luongo, this is completely false. All we want is to see what we've got. That's it. The Leafs are still rebuilding - still finding where improvement is necessary. Still figuring out if the recent success is a fluke or is here to stay.

Getting stuck with that asinine contract could be a poor decision, and Nonis is getting praise for being able to look a few years down the road - that's it.

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04-04-2013, 12:36 PM
  #894
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Right now Gillis' best hope is that Bishop craps the bed.

If TB misses the playoffs while continuing to get terrible goaltending, Yzerman probably gets fired and they make a trade for Luongo this off-season.

At this point they have traded Conacher + 2 x 2nd + 3rd + 4th for Lindback and Bishop...Yzerman is banking his job on Bishop right now because he could have had Luongo for what he traded for either goalie.
And that organization and tried this so many times its not even funny. First Marc Denis, then Mike Smith, then Roloson, then Lindback and now here comes Bishop. Another unproven backup.

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04-04-2013, 12:38 PM
  #895
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You're kidding, right?

At the time when he was moved to Vancouver, Luongo was one of the best goalies in the NHL, right in his prime. Now, he's a #2 starter who is 34 and has a contract that lasts until he is well in to his 40's.

Do you see the difference?

It makes no sense for ANY team to take this on unless the price is right - and in this case, Gillis is too stubborn to realize how low that price actually is.

As for the lot of you thinking the Leafs fan base is now erecting statues of Dave Nonis for not getting Luongo, this is completely false. All we want is to see what we've got. That's it. The Leafs are still rebuilding - still finding where improvement is necessary. Still figuring out if the recent success is a fluke or is here to stay.

Getting stuck with that asinine contract could be a poor decision, and Nonis is getting praise for being able to look a few years down the road - that's it.
Don't get me wrong, I'm happy Nonis didn't get Luongo either... We both got what we wanted... so as far as that goes, high five!

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04-04-2013, 12:44 PM
  #896
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oiler fan here who sometimes comes in peace

Let me toss this idea out at you

There are some strong rumblings that the oilers put an offer in for Luongo--but Gillis' worse case nightmare is to see Luongo playing net behind the kids the oilers have. Not so much this year, but next year when the Oilers, Nucks, Flames, kings, Sharks, Ducks and Coyotes.

here is how the standings would look if that was the division this year
Ducks 55
Sharks 44
Nucks 44
Kings 43
Oilers 39
Phoenix 35
Calgary 30

something to ponder--the oilers have lost 7 games by 1 goal--with Luongo in net, I think the oilers get the win in 4 out of those 7 games and that gives them 43pts--

What would this board reaction be in the oilers trade Dubnyk and their first rounder in 2014 for Luongo -- how do you guys react-knowing full well that Luongo makes the oilers that much better.

I think there are trades out there, but there scare Gillis because the canucks could be facing Luongo 5 or more times a year and a team they are battling now and especially in the future could cause the cancuks more harm then good for trading Luongo.

The one thing that has happened. Luongo has come out of this looking like an honest professional and looking like he is a good guy in the room--that will help the marlet

okay--attack

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04-04-2013, 12:46 PM
  #897
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What would this board reaction be in the oilers trade Dubnyk and their first rounder in 2014 for Luongo -- how do you guys react-knowing full well that Luongo makes the oilers that much better.
We would hate you. But we already do, so really, it would just be another log on a long-burning fire. And we're already pissed that we're a few weeks from the end of the season and you're sitting in a playoff spot.

But I think the odds of Luongo accepting a move to Edmonton are very very small.

 
Old
04-04-2013, 12:47 PM
  #898
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Originally Posted by jumptheshark View Post
What would this board reaction be in the oilers trade Dubnyk and their first rounder in 2014 for Luongo -- how do you guys react-knowing full well that Luongo makes the oilers that much better.
I would rather give Luongo to Florida for a 7th round pick.

Like you said, giving a team like Edmonton a goalie of Luongo's caliber makes them dangerous.
I would want a major overpayment (which Edmonton would never accept), like Eberle/Yakupov/Hall.

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04-04-2013, 12:49 PM
  #899
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Originally Posted by jumptheshark View Post
oiler fan here who sometimes comes in peace

Let me toss this idea out at you

There are some strong rumblings that the oilers put an offer in for Luongo--but Gillis' worse case nightmare is to see Luongo playing net behind the kids the oilers have. Not so much this year, but next year when the Oilers, Nucks, Flames, kings, Sharks, Ducks and Coyotes.

here is how the standings would look if that was the division this year
Ducks 55
Sharks 44
Nucks 44
Kings 43
Oilers 39
Phoenix 35
Calgary 30

something to ponder--the oilers have lost 7 games by 1 goal--with Luongo in net, I think the oilers get the win in 4 out of those 7 games and that gives them 43pts--

What would this board reaction be in the oilers trade Dubnyk and their first rounder in 2014 for Luongo -- how do you guys react-knowing full well that Luongo makes the oilers that much better.

I think there are trades out there, but there scare Gillis because the canucks could be facing Luongo 5 or more times a year and a team they are battling now and especially in the future could cause the cancuks more harm then good for trading Luongo.

The one thing that has happened. Luongo has come out of this looking like an honest professional and looking like he is a good guy in the room--that will help the marlet

okay--attack
My re-action = "Uh oh..."

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04-04-2013, 12:49 PM
  #900
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Originally Posted by jumptheshark View Post
oiler fan here who sometimes comes in peace

Let me toss this idea out at you

There are some strong rumblings that the oilers put an offer in for Luongo--but Gillis' worse case nightmare is to see Luongo playing net behind the kids the oilers have. Not so much this year, but next year when the Oilers, Nucks, Flames, kings, Sharks, Ducks and Coyotes.

here is how the standings would look if that was the division this year
Ducks 55
Sharks 44
Nucks 44
Kings 43
Oilers 39
Phoenix 35
Calgary 30

something to ponder--the oilers have lost 7 games by 1 goal--with Luongo in net, I think the oilers get the win in 4 out of those 7 games and that gives them 43pts--

What would this board reaction be in the oilers trade Dubnyk and their first rounder in 2014 for Luongo -- how do you guys react-knowing full well that Luongo makes the oilers that much better.

I think there are trades out there, but there scare Gillis because the canucks could be facing Luongo 5 or more times a year and a team they are battling now and especially in the future could cause the cancuks more harm then good for trading Luongo.

The one thing that has happened. Luongo has come out of this looking like an honest professional and looking like he is a good guy in the room--that will help the marlet

okay--attack
The number 1 pick would make us better down the road too. I would do it. The goal is to win the cup. If you cant beat a team in your division, you wont win the cup.

Trade him to Toronto and then have him beat us in a cup final ?

LolClarkson* is offline  
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