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The Luongo Thread: Just The Beginning (mod warning in post #445)

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04-04-2013, 01:31 PM
  #926
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Originally Posted by Diamonddog01 View Post
They have tried this for a while, and failed. But clearly they haven't learned from their mistakes as they went out and got Bishop - for a king's ransom no less.

Regardless of whether it's stupid for them or not, it excludes them from a Luongo trade.
For this year. If TB has goalie issues in the playoffs, then Yzerman could be canned and Loungo will be marketable to TB.

Mike Gillis's best hope is that Bishop crashes and burns.

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04-04-2013, 01:50 PM
  #927
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Not overly happy with this saga continuing, but it is what it is.
...
Hard to really feel anyone is at fault in this situation. If anything, maybe Luongo's ego had him thinking certain teams would absolutely come get him if he was available but obviously that's not the case. Now we have an expensive but talented insurance option in goal that hopefully we'll have no need of.
A very good post. I agree that for our playoff run, it's better to have an 1a backup goalie than just draft picks.

My conern though is that it may become impossible to trade Lu for anything significant come summer time. Seeing how a useful player like Jussi Jokinen went unclaimed just because of his contract, I don't know there's a market there for Lu. I can see teams that need goaltender just find a cheap substitue and roll the dice.

The media is treating Lu like he is Redden or Gomez. That's simply ridiculous. I think the Canucks is better keeping Lu and treat him like how NJ did with Brodeur...make him a lifer and just worry about the other part of the team.

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04-04-2013, 01:57 PM
  #928
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I think the Canucks is better keeping Lu and treat him like how NJ did with Brodeur...make him a lifer and just worry about the other part of the team.
Agree with the philosophy 100%. Except the Canuck's management team is not a smart as New Jersey's. The Devils would never have started their back-up goalie over Brodeur in the play-offs. They would have sunk or swam with Brodeur.

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04-04-2013, 01:59 PM
  #929
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I don't believe the leak came from Gillis and the canucks. They have been notoriously tight lipped that I don't believe they would just do the opposite. Any leak from the canucks has tended to be directly from the mouth of Gillis himself. Secondly, it has been obvious that since Nonis was fired and Gillis hired that Dreger has lost his canuck contacts and that there is animosity between Dreger and the Gillis run canucks. That animosity has still exists as he takes any chance he can to take a shot at Gillis and the fact it still makes a second cousin mad indicates Nonis is still upset about the situation. No, I think this was just an ill advised leak by Nonis to try to poke fun at Gillis in some sort of retribution. Or the leak came from someone else in the Leafs organization and Dreger ran with it to try to get retribution for his cousin. I agree that to some extent the leak helps Gillis out but the tone from Dreger was much more a "ha ha he couldn't even give the loser away what a horrible GM" type of stuff.

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04-04-2013, 02:01 PM
  #930
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Originally Posted by Diamonddog01 View Post
Steve Mason is rumoured to be signing an extension with the Flyers, no chance Luongo goes to Philly (it was a pipe dream to begin with imo).

With Tampa just making a move for Bishop, and Florida regressing big time this year and having Markstrom in the wings, the only destination is Toronto. Who wants us to retain salary.

Some may still hold out hope for Washington, but to me the fact that they traded for a decent player in Erat and not Luongo speaks volumes.

He's being bought out this summer, and every GM except Gillis knows it.
Florida may be looking for a #1 that could also mentor Markstrom. So, Luongo could actually still be a perfect fit in Florida. They have a projected $19m is capspace currently for next season with 17 guys signed. Moving or buying out a Jovanovski or Campbell, could easily accomodate bringing in Luongo. There's many avenues in fitting in his caphit with the pieces they have, and at this point in time, it may just take one player/prospect and a decent pick to acquire him.

Don't count out FLA just yet.

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04-04-2013, 02:05 PM
  #931
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Originally Posted by Goldrunner View Post
For this year. If TB has goalie issues in the playoffs, then Yzerman could be canned and Loungo will be marketable to TB.

Mike Gillis's best hope is that Bishop crashes and burns.
Well they aren't making the playoffs this year (14th and 7 points out). By the time they've found out if Bishop is the real deal or just another younger guy who got temporarily hot, Luongo will no longer be on the market as Luongo will be gone this summer one way or another.

Yzerman has made his choice and so it likely does remove him from the Luongo sweepstakes. He HAS to go with Bishop as he gave up a Calder candidate for him. But others will determine they have goaltending issues. It's seems to be a foregone conclusion the Flyers will buy out Bryzgalov and they are NOT going to go with Mason as a starter for instance.

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04-04-2013, 02:10 PM
  #932
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Tampa's payroll especially makes Yzerman look bad. It's not like he's forced to try to patch together a bargain basement roster; Tampa spends the 9th most in the league ahead of teams like Boston or LA.

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04-04-2013, 02:12 PM
  #933
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Originally Posted by tantalum View Post
Well they aren't making the playoffs this year (14th and 7 points out). By the time they've found out if Bishop is the real deal or just another younger guy who got temporarily hot, Luongo will no longer be on the market as Luongo will be gone this summer one way or another.

Yzerman has made his choice and so it likely does remove him from the Luongo sweepstakes. He HAS to go with Bishop as he gave up a Calder candidate for him. But others will determine they have goaltending issues. It's seems to be a foregone conclusion the Flyers will buy out Bryzgalov and they are NOT going to go with Mason as a starter for instance.
Agreed. Holmgren (assuming he is still GM) won't stick with Bryz and the owner wants a winner too. Whether Luongo lands there is another story but I think it's a real possibility. Holmgren is not afraid to make a big move.

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04-04-2013, 02:14 PM
  #934
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I guess the Bolts could still get the division lead and that is what they will need to do. 6 point but 3 games in hand on the Jets. 4 back of the Caps who are in second in the division and a game in hand. But they need to do some winning pretty damn quick. They will need a 6 game winning streak to put them in striking distance the last half dozen games. it's not easy to make up that ground.

Also, if the Jets miss the playoffs they will be making some major moves and I think that may include goaltending as it has been terrible (again). I'm still shocked they signed pavelev to the deal they did. That might very well prove to be just as big an albatross contract as Luongo...and it's only for another 4 years.

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04-04-2013, 02:24 PM
  #935
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Agreed. Holmgren (assuming he is still GM) won't stick with Bryz and the owner wants a winner too. Whether Luongo lands there is another story but I think it's a real possibility. Holmgren is not afraid to make a big move.
I think you guys are being overly optimistic here in regards to Florida and Philly.

The Van Sun article was the most promising news I've seen in a long time - Luongo doesn't report, the team terminates his contract - he goes to waivers which he will clear easily imo and both parties move on. I hope to god this is what happens this offseason.

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04-04-2013, 02:25 PM
  #936
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Steve Mason is rumoured to be signing an extension with the Flyers, no chance Luongo goes to Philly (it was a pipe dream to begin with imo).
Think you might be reading too much into that. Mason will be used as a backup goalie. Can't believe they think Mason is a credible candidate to be a possible starting goalie.

Doesn't mean obviously Luongo is going there only that if he doesn't; it won't be because of Mason being there.

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04-04-2013, 02:27 PM
  #937
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Agree with the philosophy 100%. Except the Canuck's management team is not a smart as New Jersey's. The Devils would never have started their back-up goalie over Brodeur in the play-offs. They would have sunk or swam with Brodeur.
Except Brodeur is a top 5 goalie all time, while Luongo....isn't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tantalum View Post
I don't believe the leak came from Gillis and the canucks. They have been notoriously tight lipped that I don't believe they would just do the opposite. Any leak from the canucks has tended to be directly from the mouth of Gillis himself. Secondly, it has been obvious that since Nonis was fired and Gillis hired that Dreger has lost his canuck contacts and that there is animosity between Dreger and the Gillis run canucks. That animosity has still exists as he takes any chance he can to take a shot at Gillis and the fact it still makes a second cousin mad indicates Nonis is still upset about the situation. No, I think this was just an ill advised leak by Nonis to try to poke fun at Gillis in some sort of retribution. Or the leak came from someone else in the Leafs organization and Dreger ran with it to try to get retribution for his cousin. I agree that to some extent the leak helps Gillis out but the tone from Dreger was much more a "ha ha he couldn't even give the loser away what a horrible GM" type of stuff.
I dunno, the "nah nah nah nah" explanation doesn't really hold up water imo. If Reimer collapses in the playoffs and this is has good as he gets, then not giving up two 2nds is a lot of egg on his face. If I'm Nonis I prefer to be able to infer that the asking price was something significant. It's just speculation on both our parts, but considering the gains Gillis made from this leak I think it's at least as likely to have come from the Canucks camp.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharpshooter1 View Post
Florida may be looking for a #1 that could also mentor Markstrom. So, Luongo could actually still be a perfect fit in Florida. They have a projected $19m is capspace currently for next season with 17 guys signed. Moving or buying out a Jovanovski or Campbell, could easily accomodate bringing in Luongo. There's many avenues in fitting in his caphit with the pieces they have, and at this point in time, it may just take one player/prospect and a decent pick to acquire him.

Don't count out FLA just yet.
9 year contracts and $6.7m salaries don't make for good mentors. Only way FLO is in it is if they can deal Markstrom for more than it costs to acquire Lu.

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04-04-2013, 02:29 PM
  #938
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I think you guys are being overly optimistic here in regards to Florida and Philly.

The Van Sun article was the most promising news I've seen in a long time - Luongo doesn't report, the team terminates his contract - he goes to waivers which he will clear easily imo and both parties move on. I hope to god this is what happens this offseason.
Won't this count as cap circumvention? It's so obvious what both parties are trying to do. If the NHL allows this then other teams will do the same thing to get out of bad contracts.

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04-04-2013, 02:29 PM
  #939
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Agreed. Holmgren (assuming he is still GM) won't stick with Bryz and the owner wants a winner too. Whether Luongo lands there is another story but I think it's a real possibility. Holmgren is not afraid to make a big move.
I have been saying this for about as long as the buyout option has been around. People still need to learn to have patients.

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04-04-2013, 02:31 PM
  #940
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It's just speculation on both our parts, but considering the gains Gillis made from this leak I think it's at least as likely to have come from the Canucks camp.
if it came from any other source I'd agree. But it came from Dreger who has had an axe to grind since Nonis was fired and has ground that axe at every opportunity (no one remembers looking like he had sucked lemons when the canucks advanced the cup final?). I'm willing to conceed the Nonis involvement in this but I'm not willing to say Dreger wasn't trying to poke fun and na na na na na to Giilis, because he was.

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04-04-2013, 02:32 PM
  #941
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I think you guys are being overly optimistic here in regards to Florida and Philly.

The Van Sun article was the most promising news I've seen in a long time - Luongo doesn't report, the team terminates his contract - he goes to waivers which he will clear easily imo and both parties move on. I hope to god this is what happens this offseason.
I'm not optimistic at all with Florida and never was. I think Tallon would be nuts not to go with Markstrom and a back up vet. He has massive other holes to fill and that team is still a few years away from being competitive, assuming it even gets there. Luongo would best serve a team who is close to being a good team but needs a little push.
I am fairly optimistic with Philly. They've shown in the past that they're willing to take on risk like Pronger, Bryz, trading Carter and Richards etc. I see them and Washington as the most likely.
I know you are in the buy out camp but I still see that as a fairly remote possibility.
I've been resigned to the fact for some time now that we'll get little in return.

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04-04-2013, 02:33 PM
  #942
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Won't this count as cap circumvention? It's so obvious what both parties are trying to do. If the NHL allows this then other teams will do the same thing to get out of bad contracts.
then they best close up the loophole. The teams immediately exploited the new CBA when they sent Gomez and Redden home. If it is there to be exploited it will be and they can't do anything about it at the time.

That said, I don't believe he makes it through waivers.

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04-04-2013, 02:33 PM
  #943
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Except Brodeur is a top 5 goalie all time, while Luongo....isn't.



I dunno, the "nah nah nah nah" explanation doesn't really hold up water imo. If Reimer collapses in the playoffs and this is has good as he gets, then not giving up two 2nds is a lot of egg on his face. If I'm Nonis I prefer to be able to infer that the asking price was something significant. It's just speculation on both our parts, but considering the gains Gillis made from this leak I think it's at least as likely to have come from the Canucks camp.

9 year contracts and $6.7m salaries don't make for good mentors. Only way FLO is in it is if they can deal Markstrom for more than it costs to acquire Lu.
I don't get how this leak is good at all. Then you have the fact of who it came from, and family connections, and it becomes pretty obvious.

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Won't this count as cap circumvention? It's so obvious what both parties are trying to do. If the NHL allows this then other teams will do the same thing to get out of bad contracts.
No, these are actually very common, and usually used on minor league players that would like to go to europe.

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04-04-2013, 02:35 PM
  #944
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then they best close up the loophole. The teams immediately exploited the new CBA when they sent Gomez and Redden home. If it is there to be exploited it will be and they can't do anything about it at the time.

That said, I don't believe he makes it through waivers.
What's the implication of not making through waivers? Is the Canucks on the hook for part of Luongo's salary if he's claimed?

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04-04-2013, 02:37 PM
  #945
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Luongo's twitter has suddenly become much more serious

https://twitter.com/strombone1/statu...92946394701824
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Just wanted to thank everyone for the overwhelming support and birthday wishes over the last couple days. It truly means a lot to me.Thank U

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04-04-2013, 02:37 PM
  #946
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I don't get how this leak is good at all. Then you have the fact of who it came from, and family connections, and it becomes pretty obvious.



No, these are actually very common, and usually used on minor league players that would like to go to europe.
NHL would probably turn a blind eye on minor leaguers but we are talking about Luongo's contract here. I wonder if NHL would let it go so easily.

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04-04-2013, 02:43 PM
  #947
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NHL would probably turn a blind eye on minor leaguers but we are talking about Luongo's contract here. I wonder if NHL would let it go so easily.
It's in the CBA, the league would have to allow it. Roberto, secretly in collusion with the team, would refuse to report to the team.

The team then puts him on waivers and terminates the contract. This would be ideal - we wouldn't be taking salary back, and there is no penalty when he retires given that the contract was voided.

Not sure what the NHL could do about this...I'm sure the Canucks would rather spend money on legal bills were the NHL to somehow challenge this then a 27M buyout...

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04-04-2013, 02:45 PM
  #948
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Except Brodeur is a top 5 goalie all time, while Luongo....isn't.
Neidermyer and Stevens, two Hall of Fame D-men helped Brodeur attain that elite status. The Canucks' have never had such defense-men. It's a management issue, both of the player, the team, and assets. The Canucks have managed this entire circumstance badly.

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04-04-2013, 02:51 PM
  #949
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According to my good friend. Lu is at the cactus club with his parents for lunch.

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04-04-2013, 02:59 PM
  #950
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9 year contracts and $6.7m salaries don't make for good mentors. Only way FLO is in it is if they can deal Markstrom for more than it costs to acquire Lu.
Come on now, when Luo is paid that much he is the starter, then when he is paid back up money he is the back up, but you will say his cap hit is not back up cap hit, that is when he is traded to a cap floor team.

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