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The Luongo Thread: Just The Beginning (mod warning in post #445)

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Old
04-03-2013, 12:30 PM
  #126
y2kcanucks
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Originally Posted by StringerBell View Post
I would rather Frattin than Kulemin or MacArthur. Toss in Scrivens and a 2nd and end this saga already.
The pick HAS to be a 1st rounder.

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04-03-2013, 12:30 PM
  #127
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Do you even know what a coin flip is?




Anyway, Luongo probably won't be moved. Gillis is quite patient.. but maybe he cracks?
Yeah, it's more of a dungeons and dragons dice roll.

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Old
04-03-2013, 12:31 PM
  #128
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Nope. We have tons of tweeners like MacArthur. He doesn't improve the team at all. In fact his production has declined quite steadily from his one real good year.
The fact that he has more points on a more offensive team like the Leafs is irrelevant to me. Not interested in another tweener. I'd rather keep two great goalies for a playoff run and trade Luongo in the summer. Our goal should be to ice the best team possible. Not help the Leafs get a legitimate starting goalie. If someone offers something that improves the team then I'm all ears.
Ok, show me who is more productive as a winger than MacArthur, or even close over the past three years.

I would imagine it is your position that you disagree with all the talking heads on TSN (except Pierre Maguire), who also feel Vancouver needs more offence in the wingers. Let me also add that it is their opinion that Luongo's value goes down in the summer too.

Oh well... at least in 2.5 hours this discussion will be done until the playoffs are over, or permanently.

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Old
04-03-2013, 12:32 PM
  #129
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Why not get some futures back for Luongo and then flip those futures for an asset to win right now?

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04-03-2013, 12:33 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
The pick HAS to be a 1st rounder.
What you are having a tough time understanding is Gillis' lack of leverage here. If Gillis doesn't trade Luongo today, he will likely have to trade him in the summer. The Canucks won't even really have a choice: they will have to trade one of their goalies so as to comply with the cap.

If it comes to the latter situation, it is hard to imagine Gillis gets a ton. His hand will be forced, even more so than it has been in the past.

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04-03-2013, 12:33 PM
  #131
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yawn

Going back to bed havea good night

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04-03-2013, 12:34 PM
  #132
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how bout we trade luongo for Stamkos?

it has to be a star forward coming back...

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Old
04-03-2013, 12:35 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
So you would trade Roberto Luongo for Colton Orr if that was the best offer right now?
Colton Orr isn't a top 12 forward on this team.

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Old
04-03-2013, 12:36 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by Fogelhund View Post
Ok, show me who is more productive as a winger than MacArthur, or even close over the past three years.

I would imagine it is you position that you disagree with all the talking heads on TSN (except Pierre Maguire), who also feel Vancouver needs more offence in the wingers. Let me also add that it is their opinion that Luongo's value goes down in the summer too.

Oh well... at least in 2.5 hours this discussion will be done until the playoffs are over, or permanently.
Nope. I think we need more scoring. A 40 point scorer from the Leafs doesn't solve that. Hansen, Raymond, Sedin, Burrows, Higgins all bring as much or more than MacArthur. With Roy we can move Kesler to the wing as well if we choose. I agree that we need more scoring but a 40 point tweener like Macarthur from a more offensive team like the Leafs doesn't solve that at all. You can keep pointing to his 60 plus point season until you're blue in the face but no one is valuing Macarthur as a 60 point player. Go peddle him to someone else. He doesn't address a need in Vancouver. At all.

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Old
04-03-2013, 12:37 PM
  #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hodgy View Post
What you are having a tough time understanding is Gillis' lack of leverage here. If Gillis doesn't trade Luongo today, he will likely have to trade him in the summer. The Canucks won't even really have a choice: they will have to trade one of their goalies so as to comply with the cap.

If it comes to the latter situation, it is hard to imagine Gillis gets a ton. His hand will be forced, even more so than it has been in the past.
Agreed. Up until now the team didn't need to trade him vs other teams needed a goaltender, that balance sheet has changed and will continue to go towards the other extreme leading up to the draft.

Trade him now and move on as an organization. While you're at it trade Ballard if you can too.

It sucks to admit you've made some mistakes but it's time for Gillis to man up, take his balls out of his purse and do just that.

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04-03-2013, 12:42 PM
  #136
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Keeping Luongo until the draft also changes the type of return required. A pure futures package is acceptable at that point. So the leverage decreases, but the requirements also lessen at that time. Anyone's call what the net effect will be.

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Old
04-03-2013, 12:43 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by Diamonddog01 View Post
Agreed. Up until now the team didn't need to trade him vs other teams needed a goaltender, that balance sheet has changed and will continue to go towards the other extreme leading up to the draft.

Trade him now and move on as an organization. While you're at it trade Ballard if you can too.

It sucks to admit you've made some mistakes but it's time for Gillis to man up, take his balls out of his purse and do just that.
Yup, time to devalue the organization. Sounds good.

You DON'T trade assets like Roberto Luongo for slop. It's that simple.

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04-03-2013, 12:43 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by Fogelhund View Post
Ok, show me who is more productive as a winger than MacArthur, or even close over the past three years.

I would imagine it is your position that you disagree with all the talking heads on TSN (except Pierre Maguire), who also feel Vancouver needs more offence in the wingers. Let me also add that it is their opinion that Luongo's value goes down in the summer too.

Oh well... at least in 2.5 hours this discussion will be done until the playoffs are over, or permanently.

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Old
04-03-2013, 12:47 PM
  #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StringerBell View Post
Burrows 120 points the last three regular seasons.
MacArthur 122 points the last three seasons.

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Old
04-03-2013, 12:48 PM
  #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahmon View Post
and? you asked how does a 2nd help us upgrade the roster now.

I said we can use it as a trade chip. And clearly a 2nd has value.


How is it pointless to trade luongo? We can get a 2nd to for future Or use it as a trade chip, or we have 5 million on the bench.

A 2nd clearly has value.
And that cap space only has value if we need it, hence already having a trade in the works for one of the players I mentioned. There is no need to trade Lu for a meager pic just for the sake of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AmazingNuck View Post
Do you even know what a coin flip is?




Anyway, Luongo probably won't be moved. Gillis is quite patient.. but maybe he cracks?
Do you know what an analogy is? Evidently not or you'd get the reference.

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04-03-2013, 12:49 PM
  #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Yup, time to devalue the organization. Sounds good.

You DON'T trade assets like Roberto Luongo for slop. It's that simple.

There's 3 options available.

1) They trade Luongo for less than he is worth due to the lack of demand for goalies and Luongo's contract, and Gillis being forced into it this off season due to cap reasons. You might not like this, but it's the reality of the situation, you should acquaint yourself with it in order to temper expectations.

2) They trade Schneider instead and this core's window is drastically reduced, as we're basically either winning in the next couple years with the Sedins and Luongo or are screwed for the future.

3) They buyout Luongo (doubt it happens).

Hopefully they trade Luongo for futures and maybe 1 roster player. He's not getting the return you expect though, you need to acknowledge all the factors that are driving this trade.

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04-03-2013, 12:49 PM
  #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fogelhund View Post
Burrows 120 points the last three regular seasons.
MacArthur 122 points the last three seasons.
MaArthur had one 60 plus point abberation. Here's a hint: No one thinks Kulemin is a 30 goal scorer either.
Burrows consistently puts up high points. MacArthur's a consistent 40 point scorer on an offensive team. He'd probably get about 30-35 on the Canucks. We have lots of those guys.

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Old
04-03-2013, 12:50 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Yup, time to devalue the organization. Sounds good.

You DON'T trade assets like Roberto Luongo for slop. It's that simple.
Of course, your valuation of Luongo might be a tad higher than 29 GMs who think he has actually had a bad playoff game in his life.

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Old
04-03-2013, 12:50 PM
  #144
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any chance he goes to tampa ? gudas, garon, 2nd 2014, 2nd 2013, ?
just a thought

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Old
04-03-2013, 12:51 PM
  #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fogelhund View Post
Burrows 120 points the last three regular seasons.
MacArthur 122 points the last three seasons.
Burrows: 67, 48, 52. Total: 167
MacArthur: 35, 62, 43. Total: 140.

Burrows has also consistently chipped in 25-goals, 50-points for several years now. MacArthur has the one good season where he had 62.

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Old
04-03-2013, 12:51 PM
  #146
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Toronto isn't giving up an asset that's helping their playoff chances - so likely nothing off their roster (of use)... Get a prospect like Percy, Leivo or Ashton and a conditional 1st/2nd pick, hinging on them making the conference final in the next 3 years. We get immediate cap space and some depth in prospects - which we sorely lack.

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04-03-2013, 12:52 PM
  #147
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Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
And that cap space only has value if we need it, hence already having a trade in the works for one of the players I mentioned. There is no need to trade Lu for a meager pic just for the sake of it.


And the management clearly has shown they want to get more players, so the capspace is helpful.

A meager 2nd round pick....

how much more will we get when the cap falls next year? and we "must" trade Luongo. (unless you think we will move Cory)

Trading him now, makes more sense than the offseason.

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Old
04-03-2013, 12:52 PM
  #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuckfan insk View Post
any chance he goes to tampa ? gudas, garon, 2nd 2014, 2nd 2013, ?
just a thought
Wouldn't do that trade. Would acquire Connolly though.

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Old
04-03-2013, 12:53 PM
  #149
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Can't wrap my head around the notion MacArthur doesn't improve the forward group. Especially with Booth's return in question.

MacArthur, Frattin and a 2nd

Sedin Sedin Burrows
Higgins Kesler Hansen
Raymond Roy MacArthur
Frattin Lapierre Kassian

That's depth scoring.

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Old
04-03-2013, 12:53 PM
  #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vanwest View Post
MaArthur had one 60 plus point abberation. Here's a hint: No one thinks Kulemin is a 30 goal scorer either.
Burrows consistently puts up high points. MacArthur's a consistent 40 point scorer on an offensive team. He'd probably get about 30 on the Canucks. We have lots of those guys.
You say this as if surrounding the Sedins and Kesler with 20 goal scorers would be a bad thing. A 20 goal scorer, replace the Roy pick, and a prospect =/> than KConn and I'd be happy.

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