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Gaborik, Delisle, Parlett to CBJ for Brassard, Dorsett, Moore and 6th Round Pick

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Old
04-20-2013, 03:19 PM
  #751
Byrral
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
Tanking? Who said anything about tanking?

Here's what the Western Conference standings looked like on deadline day.

Chicago - 27-5-3 (57)
Anaheim - 24-7-5 (53)
Minnesota - 21-12-2 (44)
Vancouver - 19-11-6 (44)
Los Angeles - 20-13-3 (43)
San Jose - 18-11-6 (42)
Detroit - 18-13-5 (41)
St Louis - 18-14-2 (38)
Nashville - 15-14-8 (38)
Edmonton - 15-13-7 (37)
Columbus - 15-14-7 (37)
Phoenix - 15-15-6 (36)
Dallas - 16-16-3 (35)
Calgary - 13-17-4 (30)
Colorado - 12-20-4 (28)

Edmonton and Nashville have completely collapsed since this day. Dallas has gone 6-3-0 while trading two of their major pieces away. Phoenix has gone 3-2-2 with no additions.

But check that out: Columbus is above .500 when the trades were made. 6-3-0? Just like Dallas, who traded Jagr and Roy and Morrow and got no real immediate help for any of them.

Who's to say that Columbus wouldn't be 6-3-0 without trading with the Rangers? Would it have crippled the team to not make the trade?
I didn't quote your post so I don't know how you would think I was referring "tanking" to your comments. But since you decided to quote me I will respond now to your post.

Every scenario you quoted in your first post was the CBJ were finishing out of the top draft picks because they made a late season run. Your post to me may have assumed that by trading for Gaborik the CBJ would fall out of an elite draft player by trying to secure a player that could help them make the playoffs. The team was one point out of a playoff spot, meaning to get to the top five or six player in the draft, the CBJ would have to lose a majority of the remainder of their games to secure a top five selection.

You also don't include in the above the Eastern Conference in determing how far the CBJ would have to fall to secure a top 5 position. In most years the elite talent level of the draft is mostly within the top three or so picks. So if that is the case, in those years, the CBJ certainly would have had to have a losing streak or to continue their losing ways to fall that far or to stay in that position. So I am sorry, I can not accept or support any theory of losing games to secure a better draft position, especially this year when the team was one point out of a possible playoff spot. I called it tanking, you can call it anything you wish.

After years of losing JD, Jarmo and Co. aren't accepting losing in any way, shape or form. No matter if we make the playoffs or not, they have shown the players that winning now is all that matters, now and in the future. The rest, including the drafting of additional players, will take care of itself. Would I like our first round picks to be at the top of the draft? Sure. But winning games, ending the perception of being a losing and lost franchise and making the playoffs is all I care about at this point.

The Gaborik trade helped provide a scoring forward that we were sorely missing since the Nash trade. I've aready stated that Gaborik floats too much for me but we needed what he brings to the table for our playoff run. I'll let JD, Jarmo and Co. take care of the draft. We will still get some good players whether we decide to draft, trade for another core player or trade for a better draft position. But again, all I care about now and all I ever cared about at the trade deadline was for the CBJ to make the playoffs. And that isn't going to change.

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04-20-2013, 03:38 PM
  #752
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Quote:
Originally Posted by major major View Post
By those standards, it will probably be a good hockey trade, though I won't get too worked up expecting 40 or anything close to it from Gaborik (maybe the offseason will improve his health and he'll surprise me, we'll see).

I have a couple different criteria for assessing the trade I want to bring in here: value management, and timing. We traded what was expendable, redundant and fat to us, but there was considerable value in those three players. We traded three RFA aged players for a high-priced, and most would say overpaid, UFA. This brings me to the timing: New York was considering buying out Gaborik, which leads me to believe we could have traded for him in the summer and acquired him for a much smaller price. That perhaps would have left Moore in the system, enabling us to move him or another D in a package for an even better asset, perhaps Bobby Ryan. If we now want to acquire a Ryan level player, we will have to part with mostly muscle and bone, we have little fat left.
I don't disagree with your post. However, don't forget the possible value that Gaborik would bring at next years trade deadline if Gabroik refuses to sign an extension and they decide to move him to a team looking for a player of his caliber to put them over the top.

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04-20-2013, 03:41 PM
  #753
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
How typical. One flippant (speculative) comment, that becomes the focal point, but somehow I'm the one with the agenda.
Thank you. Yes I would agree it is typical of me to point out when people post with an agenda. It's kinda my agenda.

Also note your post seems to have latched onto to only one flippant remark in a longer post.

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04-20-2013, 06:46 PM
  #754
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Originally Posted by Double-Shift Lassé View Post
Also note your post seems to have latched onto to only one flippant remark in a longer post.
Annoying, isn't it?

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04-20-2013, 06:49 PM
  #755
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crede777 View Post
Either way, the only thing I am concerned about right now is Gaborik's shot. I haven't seen him rip a wrist shot on goal yet. All of his goals have been from about a half foot out. He does draw the defense though which certainly is nice for our other 2 lines. If I were Richards, I would swap Letestu off that line for either Johansen or Dubinsky depending on how far away Anisimov is.
That's what I've been concerned about watching Gaborik play for the Rangers. His shot hasn't been the same, IMO. Some posters think his speed has diminished - I think he can still turn on the jets at times, though maybe he's not doing it as much as he did earlier in his career. His quick release is still there for his shot. But it looks like he's lost velocity, that snap in his shot, that would whip it past the goaltender before he even saw it coming.

I hope he gets it back. In the meantime, he's still dangerous and still draws defenders to him.

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04-20-2013, 07:16 PM
  #756
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
That's exactly my point. Whether ending up in the playoffs or outside of them, the situations wouldn't really be any different. This team is not ready to contend, and even with the deadline moves, still isn't.
I'll be honest, I don't see your point.

Quote:
My question is simple. What was gained? Was the biggest gain something about "sending a message", which is something I despise in all forms since I find it illogical?
We added goal scoring, we needed goal scoring. We traded assets for that. It "appears" that we reversed the Nash trade. The reality is probably different. We added Dubinsky, Erix, and Anisimov.

I find your "sending a message" comment "illogical". There is every possibility that Brassard wasn't even a consideration long term with the depth we have at center. The mix was going to be changed at some point because we knew that we needed to upgrade a position. Is Gaborik a superior player to Brassard? Well for what this team needs Brassard hasn't even sniffed 30 goals, never mind 40.

As I said, I have no idea where you are going with this. I find that you haven't looked at the roster as a whole, nor given any consideration to the front office having moved assets they might have considered moving anyway.

Worst case, we use Gaborik as trade bait at the deadline and get some of the assets back. Best case he works out and we have a 30+ goal scorer with 40 goal potential on this team for a few more years.

This feels more petty than anything else as a passive aggressive attack at new managment.

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04-20-2013, 08:13 PM
  #757
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I'll admit I was discouraged not seeing Gaborik score at least one goal vs the Kings the other night and even questioned his whereabouts in the Ducks win.... but it's too soon to judge the net gain/loss of that trade... We may have indeed given up too much to get Gabby but if he contributes to winning efforts the next three games everyone here will say it was a good trade…

With Calvert out Gabby is a critical element in winning out, I hope he contributes to a final playoff push, we are going to need some goals from him to do it..

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04-20-2013, 09:02 PM
  #758
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Byrral View Post
I wish Moore wasn't part of this deal. But I will never, EVER, support the idea that somehow our team would be better off not winning games, any game, because of the presumed assumption that somehow we are going to be a better team immediately by selecting an 18 year old kid in a draft. There are other options to get better players than by tanking for a better draft pick. This trade did just that.
Yeah..me too. I'm sure GMJK tried to make the deal Brassard, Dorsett, and Savard (or Gobulef) or whoever. But Moore was probably the piece that had to be included.

We had to make this trade though.

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04-21-2013, 01:04 PM
  #759
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cash for Nash View Post
We had to make this trade though.
I don't agree with that statement. I couldnt possibly care less about losing Brassard, I can accept losing Dorsett, but giving up Moore was too much.

This trade might have been better for the Rangers and propelled them to the post season, meaning a lower draft pick for the CBJ. Nash has arguably outperformed Anisimov, Dubinsky (both of whom had significant injuries) & Erixon this season.

If Gaborik goes on a tear this week and helps the CBJ secure the 8th seed, then that would be awesome. I don't dislike Gaborik, it just seems like too much was traded away.

Honestly, I think Brassard and Moore could have been packaged either for a higher draft pick or another player after this season.

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04-21-2013, 03:08 PM
  #760
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBleedUnionBlue View Post
I don't agree with that statement. I couldnt possibly care less about losing Brassard, I can accept losing Dorsett, but giving up Moore was too much.

This trade might have been better for the Rangers and propelled them to the post season, meaning a lower draft pick for the CBJ. Nash has arguably outperformed Anisimov, Dubinsky (both of whom had significant injuries) & Erixon this season.

If Gaborik goes on a tear this week and helps the CBJ secure the 8th seed, then that would be awesome. I don't dislike Gaborik, it just seems like too much was traded away.

Honestly, I think Brassard and Moore could have been packaged either for a higher draft pick or another player after this season.
Fair take. But I disagree only in the aspect that this team needs/needed an elite winger. Its just the way in which you get that guy, whether he's 30 or a can't miss player in the draft.

I'd have been fine not making that trade, hanging on to the guys (especially Moore) and then packaging Murray, and the Rangers first to move up and get MacKinnon. But I digress as Major Major will tell me to take this to the draft thread....

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04-21-2013, 04:59 PM
  #761
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Originally Posted by Cash for Nash View Post
Fair take. But I disagree only in the aspect that this team needs/needed an elite winger. Its just the way in which you get that guy, whether he's 30 or a can't miss player in the draft.

I'd have been fine not making that trade, hanging on to the guys (especially Moore) and then packaging Murray, and the Rangers first to move up and get MacKinnon. But I digress as Major Major will tell me to take this to the draft thread....
Make your case here if you want, nevermind me. I just think you'd rather have more people willing to interact with your idea, which you would on the draft board. And some of the folks there have extensive knowledge of junior players. For the record, Murray+ for Mackinnon is the exact proposal I've been pushing on that board, and I wouldn't mind having more allies for that.

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04-21-2013, 05:23 PM
  #762
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From Glen Miller at Hockey Buzz:

"The Jackets players were evidently treated to a nice dinner by new teammate Marian Gaborik last night. With the pressure to make the playoffs mounting, a nice meal out together in San Jose was probably a welcome relief and it's a solid gesture by the veteran sniper."

I agree, a nice gesture to help solidify team unity.

Link: http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Glen-...ther/176/51040

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04-21-2013, 05:46 PM
  #763
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pete goegan View Post
"The Jackets players were evidently treated to a nice dinner by new teammate Marian Gaborik last night. With the pressure to make the playoffs mounting, a nice meal out together in San Jose was probably a welcome relief and it's a solid gesture by the veteran sniper."

I agree, a nice gesture to help solidify team unity.

Link: http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Glen-...ther/176/51040
Good on Gabby. Trust, cameraderie, team is not made only on the ice. (plus I just wanted to get in before 'if he wants to help his team he should score some goals yaddayadda...')

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04-21-2013, 06:03 PM
  #764
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Originally Posted by Double-Shift Lassé View Post
Good on Gabby. Trust, cameraderie, team is not made only on the ice. (plus I just wanted to get in before 'if he wants to help his team he should score some goals yaddayadda...')
Wonder if he floated around before paying the bill

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04-21-2013, 10:51 PM
  #765
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Wonder if he floated around before paying the bill
He was busy removing the candied fruit toppings off of the desserts.

*wocka wocka*

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04-21-2013, 10:55 PM
  #766
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Originally Posted by Byrral View Post
Wonder if he floated around before paying the bill
"Floating" or "Working the room"?...Gaborik's value will be seen in the playoffs. He'll play a large role if the Jackets do anything.

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04-21-2013, 11:25 PM
  #767
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bester vaive View Post
"Floating" or "Working the room"?...Gaborik's value will be seen in the playoffs. He'll play a large role if the Jackets do anything.
I hope so... he was visible tonight but not on the score board... I would hope he is embarrassed right now... The Blue Jackets need Marion Gaborik, please put up some points dude... join the party.

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04-21-2013, 11:27 PM
  #768
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Originally Posted by Robert View Post
I hope so... he was visible tonight but not on the score board... I would hope he is embarrassed right now... The Blue Jackets need Marion Gaborik, please put up some points dude... join the party.
his quasi-countryman Vinny really needs to whip his ass or something.

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04-21-2013, 11:29 PM
  #769
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Nash got a few years before he got criticized for not being god incarnate. Gaborik barely got a week.

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04-21-2013, 11:38 PM
  #770
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Nash got a few years before he got criticized for not being god incarnate. Gaborik barely got a week.
Help yourself, there is no comparison between the two situations and you know it... We gave up a lot to get a playoff push from Gabby, I want to see some payback Thursday AND Saturday... After that I could care less what he does...

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04-21-2013, 11:39 PM
  #771
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I don't understand all of the angst. We finally have a team here. Gabby is part of it. He does not need to be the savior. Everyone needs to step up, including Gabby. But to sit here and keep pounding on him with each game he is held off the scoreboard is ridiculous. I'm one of Johansen's biggest critics but I don't pound on him every time he doesn't get on the scoreboard. He's been here a couple of weeks. Let's let it play out and see what he has to offer over the next 12 months. He is an asset that can be moved if it doesn't work out.

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04-21-2013, 11:42 PM
  #772
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Help yourself, there is no comparison between the two situations and you know it... We gave up a lot to get a playoff push from Gabby, I want to see some payback Thursday AND Saturday... After that I could care less what he does...
People expecting too much out of somebody because he's our star. People criticizing him for being a soft lazy floater. Yup, no comparison to Nash.

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04-21-2013, 11:50 PM
  #773
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People expecting too much out of somebody because he's our star. People criticizing him for being a soft lazy floater. Yup, no comparison to Nash.
Where did I.... as in I, ever criticize Gaborik for being a soft lazy floater??? If so show me the quote, is all I want from Gaborik right now are some timely goals, a game winner or two would be my preference...

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04-21-2013, 11:50 PM
  #774
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The team has one "star" skater. Before, Columbus didn't have a top line, and other teams didn't know where to put their shutdown D pair. Now other teams have someone to focus their attention on. Fortunately now that we have some depth, the other lines continue to score. Especially since they aren't seeing the top D line.

If he does nothing else but act as a decoy and let the other lines continue to score, everything works out well on the trade, especially if the team keeps winning.

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04-21-2013, 11:51 PM
  #775
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He played hard tonight

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