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Gaborik, Delisle, Parlett to CBJ for Brassard, Dorsett, Moore and 6th Round Pick

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05-12-2013, 05:52 PM
  #951
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Nash has been closely checked throughout this series, lots of whacks and crosschecks, though maybe what you're seeing is the Caps starting to pay less attention to a slumping player.

Nash used to play in front of the net for the Jackets, but we're talking 6 or 7 years ago. He probably took too much abuse and decided to move to the perimeter to prolong his career.
Agreed on the abuse and prolonging career, guess that's why I'm surprised to see Nash in front of goal. 5 PP's for NYR today compared to 0 for Caps. Hmm???

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05-12-2013, 06:24 PM
  #952
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What a game Dorsett had too

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05-12-2013, 06:44 PM
  #953
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What a game Dorsett had too


?

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05-12-2013, 06:55 PM
  #954
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Before Gaborik was traded to Columbus, he scored 5 goals in 3 games early in the year, then scored 4 goals in his last 30 games as a Ranger. He then scored 3 goals in his first 5 games as a Jacket, and didnt score in the last 7 games of the year. He was outscored by Brassard after the trade. I think the jury is still out on whether the return was really worth it.
The return was fine....We wouldn't have tied for the 8th and final playoff spot with Dorsett taking ******** penalties, Brassard spacing out and Moore being scratched. If Gaborik flakes out (possible) and Moore turns into Pierre McGuire's "GREATEST DEFENSEMAN of ALL TIME" Ryan McDonaugh (possible) then the NYR will have been deemed the winner. As for Brassard, he's a highly skilled finesse player playing against a finesse team that has taken some penalites and given him a chance to show his best qualities (ie: power play). Lets see what he does against a rugged 5 on 5 team like Boston.

The only reason I was on the fence about the trade is because of the potential of Moore. It would have been nice to keep that chip in our pocket for a trade for a younger guy down the line. But we went for it at the deadline....Oh well. One point short.

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05-12-2013, 06:59 PM
  #955
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Gaborik really needs to have a big year next year, I'll just say that. From what I've seen he really needs to pick up his work ethic, way too much floating around. Oh well, you win some trades, and you lose some.

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05-12-2013, 06:59 PM
  #956
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as has been said ad nauseum: (a) brass isn't consistent...even if he turns this play in consistently over the next few years, he wasn't going to find that consistency with the CBJ, (b) Moore was a risk, but a calculated risk from the position with the most depth in the organization...I wouldn't be surprised if we started with Savard but NYR insisted on Moore.

This deal was great. There are so many intangible things it did for this club...I don't really care what Brass, Dorse, and Moore do for the rest of their careers. I will always consider this trade a win-win.

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05-12-2013, 07:13 PM
  #957
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Originally Posted by Timeless Winter View Post
Gaborik really needs to have a big year next year, I'll just say that. From what I've seen he really needs to pick up his work ethic, way too much floating around. Oh well, you win some trades, and you lose some.



If you don't like the Nash trade then what do you think of getting this for a projected 50 goal scorer (82 game season)

Jack Johnson
Late first round pick (26-30)

Then what do you think of giving up a projected young 40 goal scorer and an early 1st round pick (possibly Courturier, Dougie Hamilton) to acquire 50 goal scorer who you trade for above package.

OUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!

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05-12-2013, 07:14 PM
  #958
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as has been said ad nauseum: (a) brass isn't consistent...even if he turns this play in consistently over the next few years, he wasn't going to find that consistency with the CBJ, (b) Moore was a risk, but a calculated risk from the position with the most depth in the organization...I wouldn't be surprised if we started with Savard but NYR insisted on Moore.

This deal was great. There are so many intangible things it did for this club...I don't really care what Brass, Dorse, and Moore do for the rest of their careers. I will always consider this trade a win-win.
Well the tangibles show us to be clear losers, I'd really like to hear what folks think these intangibles are.

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05-12-2013, 07:20 PM
  #959
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Well the tangibles show us to be clear losers, I'd really like to hear what folks think these intangibles are.
Well....my shot at this is we were the worst team in the league with Dorsett playing and suspiciously went on fire when he got hurt.

And after we acquired Gaborik we did something no other CBJ team has ever done. Win 4 of 5 on the West coast roadtrip all against teams with a winning record except for Colorado.

Other than those two things I have no idea.

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05-12-2013, 07:44 PM
  #960
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Well....my shot at this is we were the worst team in the league with Dorsett playing and suspiciously went on fire when he got hurt.

And after we acquired Gaborik we did something no other CBJ team has ever done. Win 4 of 5 on the West coast roadtrip all against teams with a winning record except for Colorado.

Other than those two things I have no idea.
That is weak evidence. Dorse was injured around March 7th, after the team had started its tear. And by your standard with Gaborik, Blake Comeau should be acclaimed for his intangibles. Realistically we have no evidence of it. Two players on a twenty man roster shouldn't get credit for the team winning unless we have some real evidence of it.

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05-12-2013, 07:57 PM
  #961
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That is weak evidence. Dorse was injured around March 7th, after the team had started its tear. And by your standard with Gaborik, Blake Comeau should be acclaimed for his intangibles. Realistically we have no evidence of it. Two players on a twenty man roster shouldn't get credit for the team winning unless we have some real evidence of it.


I just thought Dorsett sucked....Little dude who never scored, took dumb penalties and got pummeled in fights.
And I was pissed about giving up Moore in the deal.

Let me ask you this Major. If the same deal was made and we subbed in Goubelef/Savard for Moore would you still hate it? Or are we of the same mindset here?

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05-12-2013, 08:08 PM
  #962
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I just thought Dorsett sucked....Little dude who never scored, took dumb penalties and got pummeled in fights.
And I was pissed about giving up Moore in the deal.

Let me ask you this Major. If the same deal was made and we subbed in Goubelef/Savard for Moore would you still hate it? Or are we of the same mindset here?
I wouldn't hate it if we gave up Savard/Golo instead of Moore. I still wouldn't do the trade because Gaborik was coming close to being bought out, and you don't trade assets for that.

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05-12-2013, 08:27 PM
  #963
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Dear everybody:

OH MY GOD IT'S DONE WITH GET OVER IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I may have forgotten to take my chill pill today.

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05-12-2013, 08:37 PM
  #964
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Originally Posted by Cash for Nash View Post
Well....my shot at this is we were the worst team in the league with Dorsett playing and suspiciously went on fire when he got hurt.

And after we acquired Gaborik we did something no other CBJ team has ever done. Win 4 of 5 on the West coast roadtrip all against teams with a winning record except for Colorado.

Other than those two things I have no idea.
"what is galvanizing the room by showing you believe in them"

"what is cutting the last fat from the country club days"

"what is, brass was never going to do what he is doing for NYR now for the CBJ if we kept him because...he was intangibly settled into being an on again off again offensive skill player"

-- yes you can argue RJ has turned into something he wasn't upon arrival...but his will/desire to win is reportedly insanely high...if true, it has to be something with his offseason workout the last two summers...or old age..

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05-12-2013, 09:04 PM
  #965
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"what is galvanizing the room by showing you believe in them"

"what is cutting the last fat from the country club days"

"what is, brass was never going to do what he is doing for NYR now for the CBJ if we kept him because...he was intangibly settled into being an on again off again offensive skill player"

-- yes you can argue RJ has turned into something he wasn't upon arrival...but his will/desire to win is reportedly insanely high...if true, it has to be something with his offseason workout the last two summers...or old age..
Agreed on Brass being country club and not going to emerge for Columbus. But Moore and Dorse are not country club. And we were 10-2-3 in the 15 games before the deal, the room didn't need anything. Give them a talk if you want to show your appreciation.

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05-12-2013, 09:10 PM
  #966
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Dear everybody:

OH MY GOD IT'S DONE WITH GET OVER IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I may have forgotten to take my chill pill today.
This might not be the right thread for you.

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05-12-2013, 09:35 PM
  #967
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Agreed on Brass being country club and not going to emerge for Columbus. But Moore and Dorse are not country club. And we were 10-2-3 in the 15 games before the deal, the room didn't need anything. Give them a talk if you want to show your appreciation.
Lot of home games in there major before the deadline, no?

I take it you think Gaborik is a shell of his former self, no? I don't disagree.

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05-12-2013, 09:40 PM
  #968
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whatever you say. you know you came over here to see if anybody said anything about brassard so you could defend him or make a comment of how good he is.
Dude you have as many posts on the topic as NYR fans. You wanna explain why?

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05-12-2013, 10:01 PM
  #969
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Dude you have as many posts on the topic as NYR fans. You wanna explain why?
Sure, I figured if I beat them to the punch, then they wouldn't have the satisfaction of coming in here and saying "Brassard/Moore/Dorsett had a great game today. *insert stateline*."

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05-12-2013, 10:16 PM
  #970
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I take it you think Gaborik is a shell of his former self, no? I don't disagree.
I wouldn't go quite that far. He's overpaid by league standards, and he's not a reliable top-line sniper. But I really don't know what we'll see from him next year.

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05-12-2013, 10:20 PM
  #971
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Well the tangibles show us to be clear losers, I'd really like to hear what folks think these intangibles are.
Detroit or Minny loses one more game down the stretch, this is a different conversation and we wouldn't be "clear losers". I don't think we're clear losers anyway, but this team did all it could, with contributions from Gaborik, to make the playoffs.

The Jackets stunk the place up early with Brassard, Dorsett and Moore, then came out of it to just miss the playoffs. Is it your contention that the longer the Rangers go in the playoffs, the bigger losers the Jackets are in the trade? Brassard is over a point a game in this Caps series, do you really think he's going to keep that up?

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05-12-2013, 10:30 PM
  #972
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Sure, I figured if I beat them to the punch, then they wouldn't have the satisfaction of coming in here and saying "Brassard/Moore/Dorsett had a great game today. *insert stateline*."
Maybe that bridge has been crossed. Probably better to just leave it alone rather than try to pre-emptively feed the trolls.

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05-12-2013, 10:36 PM
  #973
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Detroit or Minny loses one more game down the stretch, this is a different conversation and we wouldn't be "clear losers". I don't think we're clear losers anyway, but this team did all it could, with contributions from Gaborik, to make the playoffs.

The Jackets stunk the place up early with Brassard, Dorsett and Moore, then came out of it to just miss the playoffs. Is it your contention that the longer the Rangers go in the playoffs, the bigger losers the Jackets are in the trade? Brassard is over a point a game in this Caps series, do you really think he's going to keep that up?
No, if you can remember my points... actually nevermind I'll just re-write them.

1) Wins and Losses are not good metrics to measure the performance of our skaters. The best thing is to watch the players, and use individual statistics. By my view Gaborik was about as good in the 12 games after the trade as Brassard was in the 12 games pre-trade. The scoring statistics bare this out, and we were winning most of our games on both sides of it.

2) I gave up hope that Brassard was going to blow up for the Jackets, but I thought he was going to do it for another team. My only hope was that he would return good value in a trade, which didn't happen. But I'm not that surprised that he's tearing it up now, and I don't think his performance reflects on the trade- to my mind it should have been factored in ex ante that he had that capability.

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05-12-2013, 11:29 PM
  #974
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No, if you can remember my points... actually nevermind I'll just re-write them.

1) Wins and Losses are not good metrics to measure the performance of our skaters. The best thing is to watch the players, and use individual statistics. By my view Gaborik was about as good in the 12 games after the trade as Brassard was in the 12 games pre-trade. The scoring statistics bare this out, and we were winning most of our games on both sides of it.
here it sounds like you're replacing the metrics of wins and losses with something rather subjective. Watch the players? If we're introducing unmeasurable metrics, I'll throw in the value of a successful veteran on the squad, who has accomplished many things that none of the guys going the other way did.

You're also saying an injured Gaborik is as good as a healthy Brassard. I'll not disagree. Happily anticipating how much better than healthy Brassard healthy Gaborik is.

Quote:
2) I gave up hope that Brassard was going to blow up for the Jackets, but I thought he was going to do it for another team. My only hope was that he would return good value in a trade, which didn't happen. But I'm not that surprised that he's tearing it up now, and I don't think his performance reflects on the trade- to my mind it should have been factored in ex ante that he had that capability.
I'm surprised he's tearing it up at this level of production, although I agree with your point. I figured he'd do better somewhere else. But still, he's not this good.

Also, I'm not sure of the Latin, but if you're saying the Jackets should have factored in the fact that Brassard is going to play better once traded than he pretty much ever has with Columbus, I say good luck finding a dancing partner for that one.

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05-13-2013, 02:35 AM
  #975
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You're also saying an injured Gaborik is as good as a healthy Brassard. I'll not disagree. Happily anticipating how much better than healthy Brassard healthy Gaborik is.
Well my original point was that I couldn't tell if one was very much more helpful than the other in the playoff run, which is pretty damning considering we threw in John Moore. But yes, it is my hope as well that Gaborik's "mesh" can get in the right spot, and that he will return to health. I have no idea if he'll score 4 or 40.

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I'm surprised he's tearing it up at this level of production, although I agree with your point. I figured he'd do better somewhere else. But still, he's not this good.

Also, I'm not sure of the Latin, but if you're saying the Jackets should have factored in the fact that Brassard is going to play better once traded than he pretty much ever has with Columbus, I say good luck finding a dancing partner for that one.
You're absolutely right. For years the thought has passed my mind that Brassard and the Jackets would be better off if we parted ways. And then the thought would hit me "..but he could score 70 points! Would we be rewarded for trading that? No, we would not, best keep him and wait."

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