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[SJS/PHX] Raffi Torres to San Jose for 3rd [FLA's] Round Pick

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04-05-2013, 02:03 AM
  #576
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wedontneedroads View Post
Comparing racism to head shots in the NHL is a pretty slippery slope.

I get the point you are trying to make, but I really don't think that's the right application of it.

This is a case of ignorance of the medical repercussions, not a moral/human rights dilema. I would compare it to smoking cigarettes. 40 years ago all the tobacco companies would have had you believe there were no negative side effects. After lots of medical research we know that is just not true. Same goes for hits to the head. You could guess that they weren't good for you, but nobody cared enough to really press the issue. Unfortunately it usually takes people dying to get the public's attention.

The issue with Torres is that long after head shots were condemned and proven to cause serious long term medical issues he still went around hunting for heads. Everyone knew the danger, yet for whatever reason he just didn't care if he ended someone's career for a big hit to the head. That shows me everything I need to know about his character.

It's sad that the threat of being banned from the NHL is what changed his game, and not the thought of seriously hurting one of his fellow NHLers.

He appears to have changed his game this year in Phoenix, and I think he could be useful to this Sharks team. However, his past actions have shown me his true colors, and I'm not going to forget that.
We'll have to agree to disagree then. I think it's a perfect analogy. It has nothing to do with the specifics of the offense. It's a matter of him saying that a different era made something more acceptable. It wasn't then and it isn't now. I wasn't referring to head shots in particular just cheap shots in general. Cheap shots were still cheap shots 20 years ago and brought about serious consequences on the people who did them in most cases. Dale hunter and numerous other people were suspended back in the day just as they are now. Saying that it was a general ignorance or misinformation about the effects of head trauma is frankly naive and kinda sounds like you maybe haven't been watching this sport for that long.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KirbyDots View Post
Ratto on the Torres trade and other things...

http://www.csnbayarea.com/blog/ray-r...zation-apology

"The San Jose Sharks, that family-style restaurant with the hockey motif" -Ratto What does that even mean Fatto? Can you never stop thinking about food.

Also, how can he hate Brain Wilson's beard. So tired of the bay area sports misanthrope! He loves everything that's food in life.
Fixed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by coooldude View Post
The Nolan / Marchment arguments for why people shouldn't hate Torres now that he's a shark are not good arguments.

>> Nolan was an all-star who had a hot head. He was loved and hated for his temper, inside and outside the locker room. When he was traded away, it was bittersweet as heck but I and many other fans knew we needed to move on. This is not a comparable player.

>> Marchment was a total dirty *******. I wasn't happy we got him. But he won me and most of the fanbase over. Most people don't remember that Marchment was extremely disciplined under Sutter and became a solid stay-at-home defenseman with a vicious (but clean) hitting streak. I remember a number of times where players would try to bait him into fights and he would skate away, livid because he wanted to fight but knew he couldn't.

That's why Marchment was a loved Shark, not because of his dirty hits.

>> Meanwhile, Raffi Torres has a history of egregious blindside hits, not just on Michalek. Here is a playlist of 7 of them, not even including the Michalek hit.

And on top of that, he doesn't bring the leadership, fire, and skill that Nolan did, or the game-changing defensive physicality that Marchment did once he "reformed."

Long story short, stop being Raffi Torres apologists just because he's wearing Teal.

For these reasons, I still hate Raffi Torres and I would never boo him at the Tank, but I certainly won't be a fan of him until he proves that he isn't a ***** and IS a productive hockey player.
No one is saying anywhere here that any of these guys were loved because of dirty hits. It's that they were loved or liked despite questionable hits or outright dirty hits in their past and some while wearing teal. The bay area loved Link and he was maybe the scariest of any of these guys we're talking about. Talk about a loose cannon. Any day he didn't kill someone on the rink was a good day for hockey. Dude was a fan favorite though.

I'm sorry but you know nothing about Raffis leadership skills. By all accounts the people who play with him love him. He's already proved he's a productive hockey player. He has more points than a bunch of sharks and more than clowe had before he left. And he certainly does bring the fire. You haven't watched him play much. Remember how jacked the sharks got after that desi hit or the one stuart laid on Landiskog? Wait till we see a hit like that almost every game from Raffi. He injured Thornton with a legal check and reduced his effectiveness. You don't want guys getting hurt but in the end if you can check a guy and get him out of the game legally you do it. Whatever it takes to win. Go ask Bobby Clarke about it.

I'm pretty sure Raffi was the #5 pick overall in his draft year. He has some skill. I'd say his playoff performances prove he's a valuable part of a winning team. He's been integral to teams that have gone further than any sharks team...

No one needs to apologize for him, he's done that. All the people who don't want him because he's done some bad **** need to grow up. No one wins the cup with out spilling a little blood.

Just curious... Hypothetical situation... Sharks meet Penguins (or insert Eastern team) if Torres puts Crosby (or insert teams star) thru an end board with a check thats questionable and he misses the rest of the series and the sharks win the cup due in large part to said check.. will you celebrate the teams first cup victory or will you cry and send DW nasty emails about how they didn't win fair? Just curious...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tkachuk4MVP View Post
I would have absolutely taken Pronger in his prime on the Sharks, he's exactly what all those underachieving teams needed. I'm not even sure what he did for Sharks fans to hate him so much. Play for a rival and own us in the playoffs?


And as of right now Belfour is #1 with a bullet.
The hate for Pronger stems from when the sharks upset the president trophy blues in 7 games. Pronger was still immature and whined a lot and was kind of a goon. The sharks won in large part because they were able to get under his skin and get him off his game. He never let it happen again and became the mean dominant force he's been ever since. thornton and Nolan both went thru it to a certain degree. They had to realize their teams were better if they were on the ice not in the penalty box.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StalockSuperfan View Post
I'd think they just slide him into Clowe's spot, right?

Torres - Pavelski - Galiardi

Bump Sheppard down and sit Burish.
They could easily start him on the 4th. Gomez has had some great setups but neither of his wingers can finish to save their lives. Him and Torres could be a good combo. That lineup gets even stronger.

Wouldn't mind seeing him on the marleau line though. Plenty fast and adds the serious hit factor to that line. Teach Wingels how he needs to play every shift to be with those guys. Wingels and gomez would be decent but not as balanced thru out the lines.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hold the Pickles View Post
Don't get me wrong, I dont like Belfour either. But really all he did was not sign with us to join a rival ala Campbell. Plus, pronger has done some dirty stuff, belfour is just an idiot. Currently, I'd put Perry at #1.
This. Belfour doesn't even make top 10 IMO...
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EDIT?: Jezus seriously? These were mostly unrelated replies... I guess this is just to mess with me..? ok whatever...


Last edited by NWShark*: 04-05-2013 at 06:26 AM. Reason: ....
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Old
04-05-2013, 03:06 AM
  #577
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ok guys, seriously. Knock off the "you don't know anything about hockey/or about some aspect of hockey", calling people "apologists" or "haters" or any of the extracurricular crap.

surely you're capable debating the issue without making it about the poster.

If this keeps up the thread will be closed.

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04-05-2013, 01:17 PM
  #578
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Originally Posted by NWShark View Post
We'll have to agree to disagree then. I think it's a perfect analogy. It has nothing to do with the specifics of the offense. It's a matter of him saying that a different era made something more acceptable. It wasn't then and it isn't now. I wasn't referring to head shots in particular just cheap shots in general. Cheap shots were still cheap shots 20 years ago and brought about serious consequences on the people who did them in most cases. Dale hunter and numerous other people were suspended back in the day just as they are now. Saying that it was a general ignorance or misinformation about the effects of head trauma is frankly naive and kinda sounds like you maybe haven't been watching this sport for that long.
So no matter what time period you live in you would have the exact same morals as you do now? People's morals and beliefs are a product of their society. Society changes dramatically with time. We disagree whole heartedly on this one, but it's off topic of this thread and really not worth getting into.

On topic, I am interested to see how Torres does tonight. They should win these next two games.

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04-05-2013, 03:21 PM
  #579
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Didn't take long for me to be swayed. I'm excited to see what he'll bring. Really sounds like he's cleaned up his act.

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04-05-2013, 03:53 PM
  #580
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Originally Posted by KirbyDots View Post
Ratto on the Torres trade and other things...

http://www.csnbayarea.com/blog/ray-r...zation-apology

"The San Jose Sharks, that family-style restaurant with the hockey motif" -Ratto What does that even mean Fatto? Can you never stop thinking about food.

Also, how can he hate Brain Wilson's beard. So tired of the bay area sports misanthrope! He hates everything that's good in life.
Torres is Torres. If he's a bastid, then now he's our bastid (for a few months) and it's time to win games.

On the other hand, Ratto: I thought I hated watching Ratto more than anything in Sharks-broadcast-land, but now I hate reading Ratto even more. That was the most gawd-awful pile of gibberish posing as "editor-approved sports commentary" I've seen in ages. His editor has to be a full-blown raging lunatic by now, suffering through years of that nonsense.

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04-05-2013, 03:55 PM
  #581
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Originally Posted by Linkster View Post
Torres is Torres. If he's a bastid, then now he's our bastid (for a few months) and it's time to win games.

On the other hand, Ratto: I thought I hated watching Ratto more than anything in Sharks-broadcast-land, but now I hate reading Ratto even more. That was the most gawd-awful pile of gibberish posing as "editor-approved sports commentary" I've seen in ages. His editor has to be a full-blown raging lunatic by now, suffering through years of that nonsense.
Maybe I'm really weird, but Ratto always reminds me of this guy:


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04-05-2013, 03:57 PM
  #582
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Maybe I'm really weird, but Ratto always reminds me of this guy:

How dare you ruin Richard Griffith's good name! If you're going after his Vernon Dursley character, then I suppose I can let that pass.

RIP

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04-05-2013, 03:58 PM
  #583
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How dare you ruin Richard Griffith's good name! If you're going after his Vernon Dursley character, then I suppose I can let that pass.

RIP
Yah, specifically Vernon, not Richard.

And yah, that sucked, RIP

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04-05-2013, 04:00 PM
  #584
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I bet Ratto and Dursley would have a beer together, each expecting the other to pay the tab.

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04-06-2013, 10:27 AM
  #585
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Tough situation...don't wanna break up the chemistry, but we can't have Torres riding the bench either.

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04-06-2013, 12:59 PM
  #586
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Originally Posted by sharkbite3 View Post
Tough situation...don't wanna break up the chemistry, but we can't have Torres riding the bench either.
yeh we can.

I think that they shouldn't mess with the top 3 lines.

Torres, Gomez, Burish, Desi gives alot of flexibility with the 4th line, I like it

wouldn't even mind seeing Torres-Gomez-Kennedy...ehh maybe not

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04-06-2013, 01:06 PM
  #587
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Originally Posted by Robes of Teal View Post
yeh we can.

I think that they shouldn't mess with the top 3 lines.

Torres, Gomez, Burish, Desi gives alot of flexibility with the 4th line, I like it

wouldn't even mind seeing Torres-Gomez-Kennedy...ehh maybe not
Would it hurt to give Pavs a winger who can score? When people talk about how that line (TJ-Pavs-Sheppard) is doing and well and scoring, notice that it's only Pavs scoring. I realize TJ and Sheppard are contributing, but with Raffi you give Pavs a speedy winger that can put the puck in the back of the net.

Alternatively, you can go Torres-Gomez-Desjardins. Very fast 4th line, Gomez can set up and Torres can finish.

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04-06-2013, 01:22 PM
  #588
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Would it hurt to give Pavs a winger who can score? When people talk about how that line (TJ-Pavs-Sheppard) is doing and well and scoring, notice that it's only Pavs scoring. I realize TJ and Sheppard are contributing, but with Raffi you give Pavs a speedy winger that can put the puck in the back of the net.

Alternatively, you can go Torres-Gomez-Desjardins. Very fast 4th line, Gomez can set up and Torres can finish.
I haven't been a fan of TJ at all, but you can't demote him while he's playing well, his confidence is too fragile.

Imo the biggest reason the Sharks have bounced back is the fact they put Pavs back centering a 3rd line. I have been saying it for 2 seasons now that it needs to happen.

He's playing just like he did with Mitchell and Wellwood; I think having 2 energy wingers is important, and we have plenty of those. I'm sure Tmac will change up the lines sooner or later. Torres does actually seem like a really good compliment to Pavs, much better then Clowe. I guess we will see.

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04-06-2013, 02:52 PM
  #589
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Originally Posted by Robes of Teal View Post
yeh we can.

I think that they shouldn't mess with the top 3 lines.

Torres, Gomez, Burish, Desi gives alot of flexibility with the 4th line, I like it

wouldn't even mind seeing Torres-Gomez-Kennedy...ehh maybe not
He's a solid 3rd liner, he's gotta get in there. He can't give us grit from the press box...

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04-06-2013, 03:26 PM
  #590
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we'll go deep in the playoffs with pavelski centering his own line. cant wait )

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04-06-2013, 03:42 PM
  #591
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we'll go deep in the playoffs with pavelski centering his own line. cant wait )
we already have

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04-06-2013, 03:45 PM
  #592
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Maybe I'm really weird, but Ratto always reminds me of this guy:

Horrible thought: Ratto as Uncle Monty in a remake of Withnail and I.

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04-06-2013, 04:23 PM
  #593
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Originally Posted by Robes of Teal View Post
yeh we can.

I think that they shouldn't mess with the top 3 lines.

Torres, Gomez, Burish, Desi gives alot of flexibility with the 4th line, I like it

wouldn't even mind seeing Torres-Gomez-Kennedy...ehh maybe not
Wingels is the forward that has earned a spot in the top nine the least. Put him on the 4th line, sit Burish, and move Galiardi with Marleau and Couture and slot Torres with Sheppard and Pavs.

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04-06-2013, 04:28 PM
  #594
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Wingels is the forward that has earned a spot in the top nine the least. Put him on the 4th line, sit Burish, and move Galiardi with Marleau and Couture and slot Torres with Sheppard and Pavs.
Thought he's looked pretty good, he was creating chances last nite, he's sure not a finisher though, has Mcginn syndrome.

I wouldn't mind seeing Torres-Pavs-Wingels. Then slot either TJ or Sheppard up with Couture.

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04-06-2013, 04:47 PM
  #595
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Originally Posted by Robes of Teal View Post
Thought he's looked pretty good, he was creating chances last nite, he's sure not a finisher though, has Mcginn syndrome.

I wouldn't mind seeing Torres-Pavs-Wingels. Then slot either TJ or Sheppard up with Couture.
Wingels button hooked at the blue line last night. Sorry kid, but you gotta score 50+ points per season until you're allowed to pull that ****.

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04-06-2013, 05:22 PM
  #596
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Originally Posted by Robes of Teal View Post
Thought he's looked pretty good, he was creating chances last nite, he's sure not a finisher though, has Mcginn syndrome.

I wouldn't mind seeing Torres-Pavs-Wingels. Then slot either TJ or Sheppard up with Couture.
Wingels has been invisible since the three point game he had against the Ducks. He's on a line where he either needs to produce points or be involved in being the defensive shutdown line. He's not doing either at this point. I think Galiardi is a good pick to put in his spot as it keeps Marleau out of the first fore-checker role and in more of a finisher/defensive position where he is ideal (of course people will think Marleau is coasting in this role).

If you put Torres with Pavelski, you're assuming Torres is your first fore-checker. Pavs can go either 2nd man in or 3rd man high. I'd prefer Sheppard on the line right now over Wingels since I don't think Wingels is playing well enough to earn a spot in the top nine right now.

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04-06-2013, 05:23 PM
  #597
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Originally Posted by SactoShark View Post
Wingels button hooked at the blue line last night. Sorry kid, but you gotta score 50+ points per season until you're allowed to pull that ****.
It's not even that he button-hooked there. It's that he button-hooked when he had a path to the net with a half-step on the d-man. That's inexcusable and that's something Marleau doesn't even do. He does it if the d-man's even with him but not when he's got a slight beat on him.

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04-07-2013, 01:01 AM
  #598
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I'm horrified that Torres is a Shark. I will never forget what he did to Hossa and Michalek.

Hockey scum.

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04-07-2013, 02:54 PM
  #599
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Maybe I'm really weird, but Ratto always reminds me of this guy:



?

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04-07-2013, 08:50 PM
  #600
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Here's the major difference I saw between Torres and Clowe today. After Torres took the boarding penalty, he simply skated away in order to give the Sharks a PP opportunity. Had it been Clowe in that situation, he probably would have attempted to kill Dillon and would have lost the PP for the Sharks.

Torres definitely seemed pretty calm out there and not like the type of player who was going to take stupid penalties. Before the trade, Perry was the only player I hated more than Torres, but Torres is probably like Clowe where the only people who like him are the fans of the team he plays on or has played on.

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