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Devils acquire Steve Sullivan from PHX for a 7th Round Pick

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Old
04-03-2013, 04:45 PM
  #151
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Originally Posted by MartyForVezina View Post
People generally get boners when they LIKE something.

Who doesn't like to complain on the internet?

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04-03-2013, 04:46 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by Devils731 View Post
So you think it's likely that Lou and DeBoer have a worse handle on what's happening in the locker room than people on this message board?
No I do not. You quoted one thing I said and took it out of context. I'm saying there's people around here with the ''I trust the coach and GM over the HF brass'' attitude anytime there's a criticism over certain things they do like carrying the 8 defensemen, or not making a trade, etc. Though the same people will complain if Pete hasn't used his timeout, or plays someone in the lineup over a more deserving player. Most people don't say ''Well the I trust the coach knows when to use his time out or how many minutes he gives Clarkson'' and they shouldn't have to. Isn't there plenty of venting on this board? I can't remember how many times I saw ''Why is Clarkson getting so many minutes'' in the last GDT and I was one of those people. Yet I didn't see people saying ''You're not the coach, he knows how to use his players'' or something like that.

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04-03-2013, 04:47 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by Bleedred View Post
No I do not. You quoted one thing I said and took it out of context. I'm saying there's people around here with the ''I trust the coach and GM over the HF brass'' attitude anytime there's a criticism over certain things they do like carrying the 8 defensemen, or not making a trade, etc.
No one is saying that. You are simply choosing to interpret it that way.

There are plenty of things Lou and DeBoer do that I don't like. However, the arguments that people are hatching surrounding our eight defensemen "issue" are terrible.

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04-03-2013, 04:48 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by Feed Me A Stray Cat View Post
It's funny how people on here interpret logical arguments such as this as "DUDE ARE YOU SAYING WE SHOULD NEVER QUESTION THE GM!?!?!?".
Buddy, saying Lou and Pete know more than us is NOT a logical argument. That was your response.

A logical argument would be explaining LOGICALLY why having a plethora of dmen and constant healthy scratching is GOOD (or atleast not bad like you claim) for team chemistry. Especially when none of the other 29 teams do it, aside from ones that are bottom feeders and working people into the lineup. Get off your high horse.

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04-03-2013, 04:48 PM
  #155
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It's not change for the sake of change...

The Devils are missing huge amounts of production out of their top 6...they need goals, they need primary scoring that they aren't getting and lost from last season...

Adding another bottom 6 player is ludicrous.

Look at their goals for, it is atrocious...it lacking a solid 10 to 15 goals right now...Sullivan or depth wasn't the answer... the devils bottom 6 is better today than it has been in years, we just aren't getting primary scoring its that simple.

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04-03-2013, 04:48 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by Feed Me A Stray Cat View Post
No one is saying that. You are simply choosing to interpret it that way.
Alright well what is and isn't okay to criticize management/Lou/Pete on? Giving Clarkson too many minutes is fair to complain about, but saying there really hasn't been an upside in keeping all these defensemen isn't? Even you said so yourself that you'd rather have seen us use that extra spot for a forward.

Half the posts on this board people are complaining about the lines the coach put together, or bad contracts, or how many minutes a certain players gets, etc.

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04-03-2013, 04:49 PM
  #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MartyForVezina View Post
Buddy, saying Lou and Pete know more than us is NOT a logical argument.

A logical argument would be explaining LOGICALLY why having a plethora of dmen and constant healthy scratching is GOOD (or atleast not bad like you claim) for team chemistry. Especially when none of the other 29 teams do it, aside from ones that are bottom feeders and working people into the lineup. Get off your high horse.
Yes, it is. Lou and Pete are around the team everyday. You are not. They know way more about the team chemistry than you.

I never said this scenario was good. Are you reading my posts? I acknowledged it isn't an ideal situation.

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04-03-2013, 04:50 PM
  #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleedred View Post
Alright well what is and isn't okay to criticize management/Lou/Pete on? Giving Clarkson too many minutes is fair to complain about, but saying there really hasn't been an upside in keeping all these defensemen isn't? Even you said so yourself that you'd rather have seen us use that extra spot for a forward.

Half the posts on this board people are complaining about the lines the coach put together, or bad contracts, or how many minutes a certain players gets, etc.
Criticizing Pete for giving Clarkson too many minutes actually relates to what we all see on the ice. Criticizing Lou and Pete for ruining team chemistry is pure speculative crap.

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04-03-2013, 04:50 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by KovyLove View Post
It's not change for the sake of change...

The Devils are missing huge amounts of production out of their top 6...they need goals, they need primary scoring that they aren't getting and lost from last season...

Adding another bottom 6 player is ludicrous.

Look at their goals for, it is atrocious...it lacking a solid 10 to 15 goals right now...Sullivan or depth wasn't the answer... the devils bottom 6 is better today than it has been in years, we just aren't getting primary scoring its that simple.
I don't disagree but there's only two options to get more primary scoring:

1) Pay Neiman Marcus prices on the trade market, when we really don't have much left on our credit card (re: draft picks/prospects).

2) The primary scorers we do have (Elias/Clarkson/Zajac/Henrique) actually start flipping scoring.

Can't blame the Devils for not doing #1 considering our position both in the playoff race and with future draft picks. #2 needs to be the answer otherwise we're going nowhere.

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04-03-2013, 04:50 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by Bleedred View Post
No I do not. You quoted one thing I said and took it out of context. I'm saying there's people around here with the ''I trust the coach and GM over the HF brass'' attitude anytime there's a criticism over certain things they do like carrying the 8 defensemen, or not making a trade, etc. Though the same people will complain if Pete hasn't used his timeout, or plays someone in the lineup over a more deserving player. Most people don't say ''Well the I trust the coach knows when to use his time out or how many minutes he gives Clarkson'' and they shouldn't have to. Isn't there plenty of venting on this board? I can't remember how many times I saw ''Why is Clarkson getting so many minutes'' in the last GDT and I was one of those people. Yet I didn't see people saying ''You're not the coach, he knows how to use his players'' or something like that.
I feel like I was bringing this back into context, the context was the Devils D is being ruined by carrying 8 players because of how it affects the players mentally. It was not that management can never be questioned on anything they do.

I think that the number of minutes a player is getting or what line combinations are is much different than deciding how the locker room chemistry is or what player personalities are like.

Lou and DeBoer may be wrong when assessing the locker room or chemistry issues, but they certainly have a better perspective on it than any of us do. That's been the point being made, not that Lou and DeBoer can never be questioned.

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04-03-2013, 04:51 PM
  #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KovyLove View Post
It's not change for the sake of change...

The Devils are missing huge amounts of production out of their top 6...they need goals, they need primary scoring that they aren't getting and lost from last season...

Adding another bottom 6 player is ludicrous.

Look at their goals for, it is atrocious...it lacking a solid 10 to 15 goals right now...Sullivan or depth wasn't the answer... the devils bottom 6 is better today than it has been in years, we just aren't getting primary scoring its that simple.
And Lou apparently decided that he wasn't able to add top-6 players. So what he did do was go out and get a handful of guys (D'Agostini, Sullivan, Ponikarovsky) who have histories of putting up top-6 production, even if they're not doing it right now. He pulled it off for absolute peanuts, too.

If one or two of those guys start tearing it up in the playoffs, he'll look like a genius. If they don't, then we didn't lose very much anyway.

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04-03-2013, 04:52 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by Feed Me A Stray Cat View Post
Criticizing Pete for giving Clarkson too many minutes actually relates to what we all see on the ice. Criticizing Lou and Pete for ruining team chemistry is pure speculative crap.
It 'also' has to do with what we see on the ice. You think it's an accident Fayne was a solid top-pairing defenseman on a Finals team last year and has been awful this year ever since he got put on the merry-go-round? Or that Larsson hasn't been able to get into a rhythm all year?

I wouldn't really care as much if we had all vets, the vets we do have don't seem to be affected by the merry-go-round as much as the younger guys who need to play.

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04-03-2013, 04:52 PM
  #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KovyLove View Post
It's not change for the sake of change...

The Devils are missing huge amounts of production out of their top 6...they need goals, they need primary scoring that they aren't getting and lost from last season...

Adding another bottom 6 player is ludicrous.

Look at their goals for, it is atrocious...it lacking a solid 10 to 15 goals right now...Sullivan or depth wasn't the answer... the devils bottom 6 is better today than it has been in years, we just aren't getting primary scoring its that simple.
ding ding ding! this is the answer /thread.

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04-03-2013, 04:53 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by Feed Me A Stray Cat View Post
Criticizing Pete for giving Clarkson too many minutes actually relates to what we all see on the ice. Criticizing Lou and Pete for ruining team chemistry is pure speculative crap.
Well, based on your own logic: Pete is around Clarkson every day, so shouldn't he know how many minutes are ideal for him?

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04-03-2013, 04:53 PM
  #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KovyLove View Post
It's not change for the sake of change...

The Devils are missing huge amounts of production out of their top 6...they need goals, they need primary scoring that they aren't getting and lost from last season...

Adding another bottom 6 player is ludicrous.

Look at their goals for, it is atrocious...it lacking a solid 10 to 15 goals right now...Sullivan or depth wasn't the answer... the devils bottom 6 is better today than it has been in years, we just aren't getting primary scoring its that simple.
Jim and I agree on this completely. Our defense is good, but it's not good enough to make up for our offensive shortcomings is what I've been saying all along. Our goaltending (Mostly Moose but even Marty the last few games) and PK haven't been all that great either though. A team like Ottawa has scored about as many goals as us, but has given up about 15 fewer.

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04-03-2013, 04:56 PM
  #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MartyForVezina View Post
Well, based on your own logic: Pete is around Clarkson every day, so shouldn't he know how many minutes are ideal for him?
He should. Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't.

The bottom line is that HF posters at least have some basis to criticize lineup decisions and minutes decisions on the basis of how players play.

It takes a big leap of faith to go on and begin criticizing Lou/Pete for bringing down the entire team's chemistry with their lineup shuffling.

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04-03-2013, 04:57 PM
  #167
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Saying that the GM and coach have a better handle on what the team needs and the direction the team is headed than us isn't a logical argument. It's not an argument period.

It's an actual TRUTH.

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04-03-2013, 04:57 PM
  #168
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Originally Posted by MartyForVezina View Post
Well, based on your own logic: Pete is around Clarkson every day, so shouldn't he know how many minutes are ideal for him?
As fans, we get to see the entire game that Clarkson plays, so we have a better perspective on that than we do on what Clarkson is like in the locker room, in practice, or what is going on in his head.

In both cases DeBoer has a better perspective, but we, as fans, are much closer to parity about in game issues than on out of game issues. I can see how many minutes Clarkson plays and if he seems to be deserving them, I have no idea what issues he's having in his head and no way to find those out.

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04-03-2013, 04:58 PM
  #169
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I really don't see the point in this move at all. The 7th rounder they gave up likely never amounts to anything, sure, but I just don't understand why Lou is still giving picks away. I'm not going to play GM, but what's the endgame here? Why continue giving picks up after he's already given a bunch away as it is? What the hell is Sullivan going to provide to this lineup? He's old, he's small and he's injured often. Let's get excited!

I just really wanted to see Lou try to get some picks back. He claims that they could have but they believe in this team. Whatever I guess. I really don't see it but I'm just posting on a message board.

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04-03-2013, 04:58 PM
  #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJDevs26 View Post
It 'also' has to do with what we see on the ice. You think it's an accident Fayne was a solid top-pairing defenseman on a Finals team last year and has been awful this year ever since he got put on the merry-go-round? Or that Larsson hasn't been able to get into a rhythm all year?

I wouldn't really care as much if we had all vets, the vets we do have don't seem to be affected by the merry-go-round as much as the younger guys who need to play.
Who knows.

I certainly don't think Fayne should have been benched for as long as he was. That's something I criticize DeBoer for, because in my opinion Fayne is a far superior defenseman to Volchenkov.

However, I don't think our defensive rotation is an anchor on our team's performance.

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04-03-2013, 05:01 PM
  #171
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Originally Posted by Feed Me A Stray Cat View Post
Who knows.

I certainly don't think Fayne should have been benched for as long as he was. That's something I criticize DeBoer for, because in my opinion Fayne is a far superior defenseman to Volchenkov.

However, I don't think our defensive rotation is an anchor on our team's performance.
I agree it hasn't really been a problem. Not scoring goals is the Devils biggest problem. It is frustrating to see guys like Fayne and Larsson get benched though.

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04-03-2013, 05:01 PM
  #172
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What the hell is Sullivan going to provide to this lineup?
Creativity. The Devils have Elias, and to lesser extents Kovy and Lokti, as the only creative forwards on the team. So this is adding another creative player to complement that more straightforward players.

It may help, it may not, but it seems more than worth a 7th round pick to gamble on.

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04-03-2013, 05:02 PM
  #173
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Originally Posted by Feed Me A Stray Cat View Post
Who knows.

I certainly don't think Fayne should have been benched for as long as he was. That's something I criticize DeBoer for, because in my opinion Fayne is a far superior defenseman to Volchenkov.

However, I don't think our defensive rotation is an anchor on our team's performance.
Agreed, the best thing is for Volchenkov to GTFO this Summer. That's Vanderbeek's call though not Lou's since it's his money.

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04-03-2013, 05:02 PM
  #174
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Originally Posted by Feed Me A Stray Cat View Post
He should. Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't.

The bottom line is that HF posters at least have some basis to criticize lineup decisions and minutes decisions on the basis of how players play.

It takes a big leap of faith to go on and begin criticizing Lou/Pete for bringing down the entire team's chemistry with their lineup shuffling.
If you or anyone for that matter thinks it is beneficial to defensive chemistry to have constant pairing changes as well as healthy scratching 2 capable NHL dmen each game, I really have to question if said individuals have ever played competitive hockey in their life.

It really isn't outlandish to say the revolving door at defense hurts cohesiveness. I really don't get your argument.

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04-03-2013, 05:03 PM
  #175
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Lou's been in bargain hunting mode all season as he picked up low risk (limited reward) guys with low picks. If this team is going to get the scorer or top 6 player, it's gonna come either at the draft or in the offseason, I feel, when they're gonna be able to make moves more freely. Sullivan's addition doesn't address the key issues, but like other people said, if Elias and company start... you know... producing points like they should be doing, we should, in theory, be fine at least for this year.

Next year is a whole other story.

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