HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Central Division > Minnesota Wild
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Jason Pominville Part II

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
04-06-2013, 12:30 PM
  #326
MuckOG
The Brodin Effect
 
MuckOG's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: In a tree stand.
Country: United States
Posts: 7,247
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by DANOZ28 View Post
our gm's plan wasnt working until we GOT LUCKY and landed suter & parise because they wanted to play here not because gmcf worked any magic, he just wrote the check. ps still no guarantee we make the playoffs.
You're saying that Fletcher hasn't done a good job acquiring talent through the draft? When he took over, the Wild had the worst pool of prospects in the League and now that have among the best. No credit for that?

I also think Fletch deserves SOME credit for being able to land Parise and Suter...heck, they even said as much. Also, the prospect pool was one of the things that convinced them to sign.

MuckOG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2013, 12:35 PM
  #327
Karl
Registered User
 
Karl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: The State of Hockey
Country: United States
Posts: 2,220
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DANOZ28 View Post
oilers, "no one wants that" someday soon when the oiler put it all together you'll deny you ever said that.
If that day does happen I won't hide from it. But how many years have we heard that "the young talented Oiler" were going to break out and become this juggernaut team? Only now after 4-5 years have we seen the Oilers barely make noise in chasing for a playoff spot which imo they wont get. And unless they get some quality defenders other than Schultz than it still won't happen.

Karl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2013, 12:38 PM
  #328
Karl
Registered User
 
Karl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: The State of Hockey
Country: United States
Posts: 2,220
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DANOZ28 View Post
our gm's plan wasnt working until we GOT LUCKY and landed suter & parise because they wanted to play here not because gmcf worked any magic, he just wrote the check. ps still no guarantee we make the playoffs.
If Fletcher didn't rebuild our prospect pool from the utter crap that it was, do you really think that Parise and Suter would have came here? Sure it is nice to play close to home, but if the team has no direction and young talent why play there?

Karl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2013, 12:44 PM
  #329
W75
Wegistewed Usew
 
W75's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Finland
Country: Finland
Posts: 4,672
vCash: 626
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karl View Post
If Fletcher didn't rebuild our prospect pool from the utter crap that it was, do you really think that Parise and Suter would have came here? Sure it is nice to play close to home, but if the team has no direction and young talent why play there?
Yes, this. Minnesota Wild may be a team where elite players WANT to play. Trading and signing will be much easier in the future ..or actually it already is.

When Gaborik left, the situation was quite different. Fletcher has been building this team quite well.

W75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2013, 01:17 PM
  #330
Abraham85
Registered User
 
Abraham85's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,098
vCash: 500
I guess some people here long for the days of DR.

Abraham85 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2013, 01:20 PM
  #331
Billy Mays Here
Optimistic Pessimist
 
Billy Mays Here's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Minnesota
Country: United States
Posts: 14,573
vCash: 827
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abraham85 View Post
I guess some people here long for the days of DR.
Well one of them is actually DR in disguise so. . . . . yes.

Billy Mays Here is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2013, 01:28 PM
  #332
OpRedDawn*
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 4,129
vCash: 500
Fletch deserves a lot more credit in landing zp and Suter than dano gives credit for

OpRedDawn* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2013, 01:31 PM
  #333
Nino Noderreiter
Registered User
 
Nino Noderreiter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: The Twin Cities
Country: United States
Posts: 2,871
vCash: 500


Hating on Fletcher after what we went through with DR.

Nino Noderreiter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2013, 01:40 PM
  #334
thestonedkoala
Everyone! PANIC!
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 19,414
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TaLoN View Post
That's the point, they ARE letting Coyle develop, instead of asking him to try to do things he's not yet capable of doing. This way the team isn't relying on him too much, so he can develop at his own pace.
The problem now is, do you keep Coyle on the second line over Bouchard or what do we do with him? Especially if Coyle comes back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ladde View Post
Larsson wasn´t a key player for us to win the cup.
We don't know that. In a few years, we could be saying, damn, we need a Larsson type of center. Brodziak isn't working out for us. Or, well, Graovac busted and Haula is on wing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaps View Post
He would've been a good 2nd line center now? Sorry, but how can you possibly know that?
How do we know that Granlund is going to be a good 2nd line center? Zucker a top 6 winger? We didn't need Larsson to be a top 6 center now. We needed him to develop and brought in at least next year or in a year or so. If we want to make a deep run, we need at least some depth and grit.

Quote:
Because he's been good in the AHL? Many good AHL players never become good NHLers. He's played a grand total of one single NHL game and you can't draw any conclusions based on one game.
Based off of his play in International and SEL. I mean look at Granlund. He was a mix bag in the NHL and yet we're projecting him as a top 6 player off of what?

Quote:
If the organization had as much faith in his capabilities to be a decent #2C as some fans here seem to have, I don't think they would've traded him.
I don't think anyone was penciling him as a 2nd line center but more of a Brodziak type, which it looks like we're going to need sooner than later.

Quote:
but I've seen no reason to think Larsson is some future superstar and that this was the biggest mistake ever.
No one is saying Larsson is going to be a superstar but it's premature to trade so much when this team isn't built to go deep into the playoffs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by P10p View Post
Lmao gotta love "the sky is falling" mentality. How do u people even fathom in your wildest dreams that with all the star players/potential star prospects in our system trading away Larsson and adding Pommer is closing our cup window to withing 1-2 yrs. I want what you guys are smoking
We're not saying the sky is falling. We're saying have some damn patience and let things develop at their own pace. We are making assumptions based off of incomplete data. As well, no one is saying that the window is closing in 1-2 years. BTW, if Pommer doesn't re-sign, we'll need to get another right winger. Who knows in a few years Pommer might go, well, this has been fun but I do want to win a cup, so I'm going to sign with Pittsburgh or Chicago or San Jose or Vancouver. It's not out of the realm of possibility that Pommer doesn't re-sign with Minnesota. The problem is, we are not ready to compete now. Our team is half built.

Quote:
Originally Posted by J22 View Post
So, if 3 guys ahead of Larsson on the depth chart all suck/get hurt, the Wild might have actually had to use Larsson in the NHL this year?
We could use Larsson right now actually.

Quote:
Saving Larsson in Houston would be more valuable to the Wild than adding Pominville to the 1st line? Are you really trying to argue that right now? Really? Really?
In the long term, if this team was being built for long term sustainability, yes. Adding Pom doesn't change our defense. If this team doesn't make the playoffs, which is a 50/50 right now, what good did Pom do for our playoff run?

Quote:
Again, I can understand opinions that think this trade was a bad idea or bad timing on Fletchers part. But, IMO, anybody who even tries to argue that this trade doesnt make the Wild a better team for this year, Is either trolling, or a flat out moron.
I think everyone is an agreement that it makes the team better NOW but the problem is, why make the team better NOW when it's not even completely built? Some of us think this was a premature trade simply because of the holes and the problems this team is having. Pom makes it a better team but does he really add an extra element that will get this team past the first round? Especially if we play a team like Chicago or Anaheim or San Jose or Los Angeles in the first round?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karl View Post
I disagree, I think we now have a great chance to compete now and I think next year the Wild are going to be an amazing team.
Next year, I think Minnesota has more of a chance to be an amazing team. With the prospects developing and another full off-season.

Quote:
We will lose big contracts like PMB and Heater and bring up more of our prospects to add with the veteran leadership on this team. Possibly pick up a solid D-man or two in free agency and I think the Wild will be ready to go.
We'll need to add back Cullen and Backstrom and getting another top 4 defenseman won't come cheap. We'll also need to pray that Brodziak and Clutterbuck rebound.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildfish View Post
Low 1st Round Pick
Good to know that we already made the playoffs. For all we know it could be the 1st overall pick. Too much uncertainty.

Quote:
a low 2nd round Pick
Possibly.

Quote:
a prospect that wasn't even in THN's Top 75 prospect list
He was last year and the opinion appears to be high that people liked Larsson as a prospect. Was he a Steven Stamkos? No. But he's the solid kind of center you want for your team.

Quote:
and a goalie prospect who was clearly expendable.
We'll see.

Quote:
IMO "tons of assets" is a gross overstatement. I also find your constant comparison of a prospect to a proven NHL player absurd.
Tell that to the analysts and other experts who kept seeing Larsson as someone special. Why are we comparing Brodin to Lidstrom/Jonsson than?

Quote:
I liked Larsson, too, but the fact is he's proven nothing in the NHL yet
This is an absurd statement. Why not trade Zucker or Kuemper or Gustafsson? They haven't proven anything in the NHL either. This is the most ridiculous statement I see keep popping up because it takes time.

Quote:
and the Wild's prospect cupboard is full of blue chippers, losing one is hardly mortgaging the future. There is a very legitimate question about Larsson's future scoring potential. IMO he's more likely to become a solid 3rd Line Center than a 2nd Liner.
And that's what we could use. A solid 3rd line center. 10-20 goals, 20-40 assists. Character guy. High leadership. Physical.

There are legitimate questions about Granlund ever becoming a solid center (I still think he should be kicked out to wing). So why not trade him in the off-season for help now? He could fetch a top 4 defenseman.

The problem is about mortgaging the future, it's when and why we are doing it and being smart about it. This isn't really smart.

Quote:
One reoccurring theme on this board is people grossly over-estimating Wild prospects; nature of the beast, I suppose.
Yep. We overestimated Brodin, Zucker, Coyle, and Granlund along with Kuemper, Gustafsson, Dumba, and Bussieres.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MuckOG View Post
I agree 100%. It's also not reasonable to assume that we would be holding on to all of these prospects.
No, it's not. We know that some are going to bust. Some are going to be traded. The question is, when, why and for who? And was it the right trade? This doesn't seem to be the right time because the uncertainty of making the playoff run.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildfish View Post
How often can a team acquire a 30 yr old, two time 30 goal score and not give up a roster player in return?
Not often but the more poignant question is, is this team built for a long cup run?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwInS1095 View Post
to be saying that it changes our window, etc, etc is preposterous.
It most certainly changes the window. Fletcher basically signaled that this year and next year, our goal isn't just to make the playoffs (and if we don't, it'll be a terrible year) but to make a long Cup run with what we have now.

Quote:
I mean Larsson was our 4th best forward prospect and that's without factoring in any other positions.
And our 2nd best center prospect.

Quote:
Larsson is and never was going to be the difference between a Cup Run and the playoffs.
Good to know that we can predict the future. We don't know anything yet. Even this year is all jumbled up.


Quote:
Hell, the Capitals traded Filip Forsberg for Martin Erat. Pominville is twice the player Erat is and Forsberg is twice the prospect that Larsson is. Not to mention the Wild have a lot more depth in their system than the Capitals and are a closer to making a run at the Cup, yet Washington still made that move.
Capitals are also constantly criticized and their GM is constantly getting bashed. It's like saying, well this guy cut off his arm, we just cut off our hand.

Quote:
Pitt traded one of their best prospects for Brenden Morrow, who at this stage of his career isn't really anything but leadership.
But he's also adds some grit and toughness to the team and that's what you want to find for the playoffs. Furthermore, I think it was a heavy price but Joe Marrow was I believe their 3rd or 4th best defensive prospect, getting pushed down. So, it didn't cut into their depth much.

Quote:
How many times have we, as fans, wanted the GM to make moves to get us to that next step. Now, when Fletcher is adding veteran leaders--who are also all star caliber players- you guys are complaining?
I'm questioning the timing of the move, that is all. I don't question Pom's ability or what he adds to the team. I just question the timing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwInS1095 View Post
At some point you have to say "Let's win now." instead of "let's win in the future"
Great. So, does that mean Cuma, Scandella, and Kampfer are going to see some time these next two weeks at defense? Because God knows we'll need some depth for the playoffs and we'll need to get them some practice time.

thestonedkoala is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2013, 01:41 PM
  #335
thestonedkoala
Everyone! PANIC!
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 19,414
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abraham85 View Post
I guess some people here long for the days of DR.
No, he's even worse (if that didn't make any sense, I hated DR as a GM, he's worse than Fletcher, who isn't bad but hasn't shown that next level) What I want is a GM that is patient and doesn't panic or get pressured into making dumb moves (Kobasew, Barker, Staubitz, Powe)


Last edited by thestonedkoala: 04-06-2013 at 02:00 PM. Reason: Clarification
thestonedkoala is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2013, 01:44 PM
  #336
Blizzard6411
#benchstoner
 
Blizzard6411's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Seattle
Country: United States
Posts: 1,852
vCash: 500
How exactly does one use ignore? I can't figure it out and sure would like to start using it.

Blizzard6411 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2013, 01:46 PM
  #337
MuckOG
The Brodin Effect
 
MuckOG's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: In a tree stand.
Country: United States
Posts: 7,247
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by the8bandarmadillo View Post
No, he's even worse. What I want is a GM that is patient and doesn't panic or get pressured into making dumb moves (Kobasew, Barker, Staubitz, Powe)
EVERY GM makes a move now and again they regret.

MuckOG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2013, 01:47 PM
  #338
tyratoku
Registered User
 
tyratoku's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Grand Forks, ND
Country: United States
Posts: 7,516
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blizzard6411 View Post
How exactly does one use ignore? I can't figure it out and sure would like to start using it.
Click on their username and it's at the bottom of the list that pops up.

tyratoku is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2013, 01:52 PM
  #339
thestonedkoala
Everyone! PANIC!
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 19,414
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MuckOG View Post
EVERY GM makes a move now and again they regret.
The problem is trend. Fletcher has done well when he's building the team, but he's done horrible when he's pressured into something.

Barker for Leddy and Johnsson trade (I understand the trade. Barker did have one 50 point season and Leddy was a long term project, so he was trying to get an already developed Leddy type)

Kobasew for 2nd, Fallstrom and Weller (Weller is a wash but Fallstrom and a 2nd was a bit much for a guy that ultimately did nothing for the organization)

Staubitz for a 5th (well the Sharks did get a good prospect and we got a punching bag)

Powe for a 3rd (I liked Powe but clearly this trade did nothing for this team)

Compared to

Burns for Setoguchi, 1st, and Coyle
Belanger for a 2nd
Heatley for Havlat

To me, those trades are night and day. Fletcher had little expectations out of these trades (playoffs, simply re-building the team) and he managed it well.

As well Blizzard, you still haven't argued any points. You just keep attacking the poster but not the post.

thestonedkoala is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2013, 02:01 PM
  #340
Abraham85
Registered User
 
Abraham85's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,098
vCash: 500
Are you TSK from the old forum? You sound exactly like him.

Abraham85 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2013, 02:01 PM
  #341
Puhis
@Puhis46
 
Puhis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Espoo, Finland
Country: Finland
Posts: 9,917
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Puhis Send a message via Skype™ to Puhis
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abraham85 View Post
Are you TSK from the old forum? You sound exactly like him.
He is, as far as I know.

Puhis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2013, 02:02 PM
  #342
thestonedkoala
Everyone! PANIC!
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 19,414
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abraham85 View Post
Are you TSK from the old forum? You sound exactly like him.
I am. I don't know who you are though.

BTW; answer me this one question. Is this team built for a long term run right now? With this current team and how they are playing?

thestonedkoala is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2013, 02:03 PM
  #343
MuckOG
The Brodin Effect
 
MuckOG's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: In a tree stand.
Country: United States
Posts: 7,247
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by the8bandarmadillo View Post
I am. I don't know who you are though.

BTW; answer me this one question. Is this team built for a long term run right now? With this current team and how they are playing?
Yes...all they are missing is a 2nd pairing defenseman.

MuckOG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2013, 02:07 PM
  #344
Abraham85
Registered User
 
Abraham85's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,098
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by the8bandarmadillo View Post
I am. I don't know who you are though.

BTW; answer me this one question. Is this team built for a long term run right now? With this current team and how they are playing?
I don't think I ever posted there because it was full of nazis.

Yeah I think so. As much as almost any other team in the west.

Abraham85 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2013, 02:14 PM
  #345
Rabid Husky
Registered User
 
Rabid Husky's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: St. Cloud, MN
Country: United States
Posts: 4,229
vCash: 583
I'd say we are closer with adding Pom than we would be with keeping Larsson. It made the team better right now and for next year.

Rabid Husky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2013, 02:24 PM
  #346
Casper
30 goal grinder
 
Casper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: MN
Posts: 1,527
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by the8bandarmadillo View Post
The problem is trend. Fletcher has done well when he's building the team, but he's done horrible when he's pressured into something.

Barker for Leddy and Johnsson trade (I understand the trade. Barker did have one 50 point season and Leddy was a long term project, so he was trying to get an already developed Leddy type)

Kobasew for 2nd, Fallstrom and Weller (Weller is a wash but Fallstrom and a 2nd was a bit much for a guy that ultimately did nothing for the organization)

Staubitz for a 5th (well the Sharks did get a good prospect and we got a punching bag)

Powe for a 3rd (I liked Powe but clearly this trade did nothing for this team)

Compared to

Burns for Setoguchi, 1st, and Coyle
Belanger for a 2nd
Heatley for Havlat

To me, those trades are night and day. Fletcher had little expectations out of these trades (playoffs, simply re-building the team) and he managed it well.

As well Blizzard, you still haven't argued any points. You just keep attacking the poster but not the post.
Meh, a lot of those trades are fairly inconsequential. You also failed to mention a few like Brodizak for a third and Rupp for Palmeri + Powe.

Casper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2013, 02:29 PM
  #347
thestonedkoala
Everyone! PANIC!
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 19,414
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MuckOG View Post
Yes...all they are missing is a 2nd pairing defenseman.
And that's the problem. We're missing a 2nd pairing defenseman. And that's pretty damn important for a Cup run. It becomes a problem when you start going, yes BUT we need this. Oh and this and oh and that!

Here's the thing, which I must reiterate very strongly.

I don't hate the guy we got. I think he fits a need for this organization at this current point in time. What I hate is the timing and that is every bit as important as who you get. And most of you guys are missing that point and why I think some of us are really edgy about this trade. The problem is, I don't see it as we got Pom ergo we'll make the playoffs ergo we'll go deep into the playoffs because we got Pom. What you guys are arguing about is different than what I am arguing. I am looking at risk of giving up a solid prospect that could have an impact sooner than later (Larsson) and a 1st (2nd and Hackett at this point are a wash) for a major uncertainty. You can have some uncertainty, like this team might not go deep in the playoffs. But when you are looking at the standings and the prospect of, oh hell, we might not even make it, then that becomes a problem.

Pom could turn out to be a major rental at this point and a costly mistake if this team doesn't even sniff the playoffs this year. But I have faith this team will get into the playoffs. As pointed out there are two criteria in my mind to make it a successful trade. A) We get to the Semi-Finals THIS YEAR. And B) Pom signs an extension this off-season. We cannot walk into next season without him under contract for an extended period of time (I believe there was some rumor that he said he would stay but I can't find it).

Why the Semi-Finals this year? Because that is what I am hearing from Fletcher. Getting into the playoffs this year isn't acceptable anymore. We need to go further than just the first round. We need to make it into the second round and maybe beyond that.

And that's what is the scary thing about this trade. We're 5 points back from being bounced, Backstrom looks like he is getting way overworked (can't wait to see what he'll do in the playoffs or if Yeo will play Kuemper down the stretch), our defense doesn't show up half the night and those 25+ minutes that Suter and Brodin were munching on in April are causing some fatigue on their end, and our 2-4th lines are very streaky.

As Jarick said earlier:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
I just worry that we've shifted the window much closer to now than to later, and if we don't win in that window, it's going to be trouble. Especially since, and yes as State of Hockey pointed out, there's not a lot of young players to bridge the 30-year-olds with the 20-year-olds.
And I agree with this sentiment wholeheartedly. Sometimes you have to take risks, sometimes you have to play it safe. And this is one of the times I think Fletcher misjudged the situation and should have played it safe.

I think one more year of building up our core wouldn't have hurt this team at all. We could have made a major run next year (traded all the draft picks, traded Dumba, traded Granlund, who the hell cares) and I think it would have been smarter to do that then paying a premium in a shorten year where anything and everything can happen by the end and we only get one year out of Pom in the playoffs before he goes back East because we can't work out an agreement.

The other thing is this; overall, I agree we have monumental depth at prospects but we don't have a lot in between. We have guys that are ready now (Granlund, Brodin, Coyle, Zucker) but we don't have guys ready in the mid-terms. As we keep telling ourselves even with all of these great prospects, some of them are going to bust.

Outside of Granlund, we now have Phillips (a long term project, most are calling a bust), Graovac (a major unknown elemental. One good season but has had nagging injuries throughout his career) and Haula (I don't know why he's listed as a left wing).

Here's our forward depth now:

Center:
Granlund
Phillips
Haula
Graovac
Almond
Broda
Gulmour
Bertschy
McIntyre
Hamburg

Right Wing is ultra weak:
Coyle
Palmer
Fontain
Bulmer
McMillian

Left Wing is better:
Zucker
Lucia
Bussieres
Foucault
Nanne

Having one more draft and one more season to evaluate our prospects would have been tremendous for this organization. From what I see now, they are very high on Phillips and Haula, high on Gustafsson and very high on our defensemen like Gunnarsson, Kampfer, Seeler, Medvec, and Draeger or think they have some future with the organization.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Casper View Post
Meh, a lot of those trades are fairly inconsequential. You also failed to mention a few like Brodizak for a third and Rupp for Palmeri + Powe.
So, losing a 2nd, 3rd, Leddy and...actually the 5th was inconsequential but still it was in our building phase, was inconsequential? That's the problem. If they are consequential, why don't we trade our prospects and lower draft picks all the time? They are consequential to building this organization and team and sometimes you just need patience.

Brodizak was a success because he was currently rebuilding the team and had no pressure. It's also the Oilers.

Rupp and Palm + Powe is a wash IMO. Like Sheppard for a 3rd and again not something he was really panicky in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abraham85 View Post
Yeah I think so. As much as almost any other team in the west.
Almost? A lot of uncertainty there.

thestonedkoala is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2013, 02:34 PM
  #348
roon
Registered User
 
roon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Minnesota
Country: United States
Posts: 1,018
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by the8bandarmadillo View Post
The problem is trend. Fletcher has done well when he's building the team, but he's done horrible when he's pressured into something.

Barker for Leddy and Johnsson trade (I understand the trade. Barker did have one 50 point season and Leddy was a long term project, so he was trying to get an already developed Leddy type)

Kobasew for 2nd, Fallstrom and Weller (Weller is a wash but Fallstrom and a 2nd was a bit much for a guy that ultimately did nothing for the organization)

Staubitz for a 5th (well the Sharks did get a good prospect and we got a punching bag)

Powe for a 3rd (I liked Powe but clearly this trade did nothing for this team)

Compared to

Burns for Setoguchi, 1st, and Coyle
Belanger for a 2nd
Heatley for Havlat

To me, those trades are night and day. Fletcher had little expectations out of these trades (playoffs, simply re-building the team) and he managed it well.

As well Blizzard, you still haven't argued any points. You just keep attacking the poster but not the post.
I get that you are pissed about the Hackett and Larsson trade. Lets say we go your route and let our young guys develop. Lets say larsson busts...and Hackett turns out to be a backup at best. Then what? You miss out on a guy like Pomms for a 4th line grinder and a backup goalie? It's a gamble...sometimes you win...other times you lose. If you rely on young kids developing to make a deep playoff run you are doing it wrong. You need vet experience to make those deep runs....you really think Larsson was going to provide grit in the post season? The kid was invisible in his first game and lets be honest the AHL and the NHL post season are not exactly similar. I think you need a little perspective.

roon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2013, 02:47 PM
  #349
thestonedkoala
Everyone! PANIC!
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 19,414
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by roon View Post
I get that you are pissed about the Hackett and Larsson trade.
I'm not pissed at all. I just think it was premature.

Quote:
Lets say we go your route and let our young guys develop. Lets say larsson busts...and Hackett turns out to be a backup at best. Then what? You miss out on a guy like Pomms for a 4th line grinder and a backup goalie?
Let's say Larsson turns out to be a top 6 center with grit, leadership, and pots 20 goals, 40 assists every year for 60 points and Hackett turns into an elite starter? While Minnesota misses the playoffs this year, gets bounced on the 1st round next year and Pom decides to go back East? Too much uncertainty at this point.

Again, you're missing the point behind this trade. Fletcher thinks this team can go deep into the playoffs with the roster we have now + Pom. That means he thinks our defense is good enough to push deep into the playoffs and that Kuemper is a capable backup for Backstrom if Backstrom has a meltdown. I think we can agree that our defense is a bit shaky at best and at worst, a black hole of talent. And Kuemper is going to need some time in the NHL to prove he can be a backup.

Quote:
It's a gamble...sometimes you win...other times you lose. If you rely on young kids developing to make a deep playoff run you are doing it wrong.
So, we don't need depth? Those young kids cut their teeth sometimes in the playoffs and make their name. Those young kids provide some insurance. We aren't relying on kids to do anything but provide depth, push some of the guys like Brodziak aside and take the reigns.

Quote:
you really think Larsson was going to provide grit in the post season? The kid was invisible in his first game and lets be honest the AHL and the NHL post season are not exactly similar.
Granlund sucked his first game and we're counting on him to be our 2nd line center? Larsson would have provided depth in case there was an injury or in case going into next season Brodie decides to call it quits and just play as great as he did this year. I think Larsson is the kind of guy that year in and year out will be that playoff warrior you want on your team.

Quote:
I think you need a little perspective.
No, no I don't. I think you guys just need to have patience and not think the sky is falling because Coyle isn't living up to being a top line right wing his first year. Or that we don't have significant problems with defensive depth.

thestonedkoala is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2013, 04:48 PM
  #350
OpRedDawn*
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 4,129
vCash: 500
Jesus Christ. Trading Larsson does not shift our window at all. It does, open up a window. This trade does not stop us from being contenders in the future. And, we want to be a perennial playoff time. It's not like we can just wait until all of our prospects are into the NHL and then just keep the same "CUP RUN" lineup the same for a big window.

Assuming we don't extend Poms (even though we prolly will), that gives us for sure this year and next to make some noise. In the offseason, if we improve the D, we'll have a good chance at a solid cup run. So, we get a good chance this year, but next year, man, we should have a pretty stacked team assuming we upgrade our D.

Trading Larsson does not negatively effect our long term plans either. We can't just horde prospects forever. Eventually, we need to make a serious run. Yeah, I loved Larsson too, but I'd love a deep playoff run a lot more.

And, you can't just say it's fletches fault for not getting a dman this time around. He obviously knows that we needed an winger upgrade and d-man.

You weren't listening to his phone calls and you don't know what people were asking. To speculate is just stupid. The asking price for a serviceable d-man still might have been too high. If he did two trades like the larsson trade at the same time, then I may worry about mortgaging some future success for current success. But not off the Poms trade.

OpRedDawn* is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:36 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2015 All Rights Reserved.