HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Pittsburgh Penguins
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Can Malkin carry us again?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
04-09-2013, 11:14 AM
  #226
radapex
Registered User
 
radapex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Canada, Eh
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,392
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by PantherDigest View Post
This thread is absurd:

You don't get rid of generational talent. You surround it with more talent.

Look at the Flyer's. Boy, they got a whole lot deeper and younger! Got them real far....
But you can't surround it with more talent if there's no cap space.

James Mirtle projects the salary cap to be $64.3-million for the 2014-15 season. Give the numbers I posted earlier in the threat, that seems quite reasonable right now. If you sign Malkin @ $10-million per year, the 2014-15 roster plays out like this:

Code:
_______________   Crosby ($8.7M)    _______________
_______________   Malkin ($10M)     Neal ($5M)
Bennet ($0.9M)    _______________   _______________
_______________   _______________   _______________
_______________



         Martin ($5M)      _______________
         _______________   _______________
         _______________   _______________
                  _______________



                  Fleury ($5M)
                  _______________
Cap Space: $64,300,000
Cap Payroll: $34,600,000
Space Remaining: $29,700,000
Roster Spots to Fill: 16

That means you can spend now more than about $3.5-million per spot for each of the open top-6 forwards and top-4 defensemen, leaving about $8-million for the remaining 10 roster spots.

With 50-60 point guys already getting upwards of $6-million per year, $3.5-million might get you an aging 35-40 point guy... basically, you'll get 3 Matt Cookes for your top 6.

radapex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-09-2013, 11:14 AM
  #227
laufer72
Ashburton Grove
 
laufer72's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Country: Croatia
Posts: 2,176
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shockmaster View Post
But when you already have Crosby, that makes Letang more important to this team.

Remember, building a team isn't just about collecting all the big name players.
I'm seriously confused by the bolded part. Any other team in the league would kill to have two players of such caliber, you say "have one, don't need the other".

It has nothing to do with "big name players" it has to do with ability to ice two extraordinary lines, and stretch opposing defense superthin, the ability that no other team has.

laufer72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-09-2013, 11:15 AM
  #228
radapex
Registered User
 
radapex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Canada, Eh
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,392
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mario_is_BACK!! View Post
Karlsson, Chara, Letang, Doughty, Weber, Suban, Suter, Yandle, Keith, Green (when healthy). That's 1/3 of the league who has a player better than/the same as/very close to Kris Letang.

Now name the teams with a Malkin or like Malkin.
To counter, that also means the value of Letang on the trade market is likely to be lower than his value to the Penguins. That's not quite the case for Malkin because the Penguins have Crosby, which means teams would definitely give up a lot more in a trade for Malkin than they would for Letang.

radapex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-09-2013, 11:16 AM
  #229
radapex
Registered User
 
radapex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Canada, Eh
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,392
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by laufer72 View Post
I'm seriously confused by the bolded part. Any other team in the league would kill to have two players of such caliber, you say "have one, don't need the other".

It has nothing to do with "big name players" it has to do with ability to ice two extraordinary lines, and stretch opposing defense superthin, the ability that no other team has.
That's the problem though... if Malkin does get the $10-11M per year contract almost everyone is expecting him to, then it's going to be nearly impossible to ice one extraordinary line let alone two due to cap implications.

radapex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-09-2013, 11:16 AM
  #230
Shady Machine
Registered User
 
Shady Machine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 16,919
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by radapex View Post
To counter, that also means the value of Letang on the trade market is likely to be lower than his value to the Penguins.
Oh well. It's better than trading Malkin. Who the hell would we get for him that would make it even remotely worthwhile?

Shady Machine is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-09-2013, 11:17 AM
  #231
Shockmaster
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 6,222
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by laufer72 View Post
I'm seriously confused by the bolded part. Any other team in the league would kill to have two players of such caliber, you say "have one, don't need the other".

It has nothing to do with "big name players" it has to do with ability to ice two extraordinary lines, and stretch opposing defense superthin, the ability that no other team has.
It also has to do with the cap. Which player do the Penguins need more that they can afford to keep? When you already have Crosby, that makes Malkin more expendable.

Shockmaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-09-2013, 11:17 AM
  #232
Shady Machine
Registered User
 
Shady Machine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 16,919
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by radapex View Post
That's the problem though... if Malkin does get the $10-11M per year contract almost everyone is expecting him to, then it's going to be nearly impossible to ice one extraordinary line let alone two due to cap implications.
Then I guess we better start drafting wingers

Shady Machine is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-09-2013, 11:18 AM
  #233
Mario_is_BACK!!
ACK! ACK ACK! ACK!!!
 
Mario_is_BACK!!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Charleston, SC
Country: United States
Posts: 3,171
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Mario_is_BACK!! Send a message via MSN to Mario_is_BACK!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by radapex View Post
That's the problem though... if Malkin does get the $10-11M per year contract almost everyone is expecting him to, then it's going to be nearly impossible to ice one extraordinary line let alone two due to cap implications.
Literally the only people I've seen throw out this number are fans who are completely guessing.

Mario_is_BACK!! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-09-2013, 11:18 AM
  #234
Shady Machine
Registered User
 
Shady Machine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 16,919
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shockmaster View Post
It also has to do with the cap. Which player do the Penguins need more that they can afford to keep? When you already have Crosby, that makes Malkin more expendable.
I think we should just agree to disagree and move on. Having Crosby does not make Malkin expendable. I could at least understand the argument when you had Staal as your 3rd line center but not now.

Shady Machine is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-09-2013, 11:19 AM
  #235
Mario_is_BACK!!
ACK! ACK ACK! ACK!!!
 
Mario_is_BACK!!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Charleston, SC
Country: United States
Posts: 3,171
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Mario_is_BACK!! Send a message via MSN to Mario_is_BACK!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shockmaster View Post
It also has to do with the cap. Which player do the Penguins need more that they can afford to keep? When you already have Crosby, that makes Malkin more expendable.
Except Shero has put a premium on drafting puck moving defensemen for this kind of thing.

Letang is far more expendable.

Mario_is_BACK!! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-09-2013, 11:20 AM
  #236
Shockmaster
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 6,222
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shady Machine View Post
Then I guess we better start drafting wingers
Or trading highly touted defensive prospects for highly touted forward prospects.

Don't be so certain both Pouliot and Maatta will be with the Penguins in the future.

Shockmaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-09-2013, 11:20 AM
  #237
turd
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 815
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shockmaster View Post
It also has to do with the cap. Which player do the Penguins need more that they can afford to keep? When you already have Crosby, that makes Malkin more expendable.
No it does not. That's just an absurd line of thinking. You absolutely do not move Malkin under any circumstances. You keep him, even at the expense of Letang. Losing Letang would be a lot less noticeable than losing Geno.

turd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-09-2013, 11:24 AM
  #238
Shockmaster
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 6,222
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mario_is_BACK!! View Post
Except Shero has put a premium on drafting puck moving defensemen for this kind of thing.

Letang is far more expendable.
Okay, but a lot of those guys aren't NHL ready. When you consider a) you have Sidney Crosby on your team and b) there's a salary cap, Letang is more important.

I've never said Malkin isn't a generational talent, but all things considered, the Penguins need Letang more than they need Malkin.

Quote:
No it does not. That's just an absurd line of thinking. You absolutely do not move Malkin under any circumstances. You keep him, even at the expense of Letang. Losing Letang would be a lot less noticeable than losing Geno.
Based on what besides stats?

Shockmaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-09-2013, 11:26 AM
  #239
Mario_is_BACK!!
ACK! ACK ACK! ACK!!!
 
Mario_is_BACK!!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Charleston, SC
Country: United States
Posts: 3,171
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Mario_is_BACK!! Send a message via MSN to Mario_is_BACK!!
Once again it's everyone else that's wrong and that one person is clearly right.

I'm done with this.

Mario_is_BACK!! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-09-2013, 11:27 AM
  #240
Shockmaster
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 6,222
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shady Machine View Post
I think we should just agree to disagree and move on. Having Crosby does not make Malkin expendable. I could at least understand the argument when you had Staal as your 3rd line center but not now.
That's what the Penguins should be looking for if they do find themselves in a situation where they have to trade Malkin - a #2 center, amongst other high-quality players.

Crosby and Staal would've complemented each other nicely as #1 and #2 centers respectively, but since Staal really wanted to play with his brother, I'm not sure that was all in Shero's control. He couldn't risk letting Staal walk for nothing.

Shockmaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-09-2013, 11:28 AM
  #241
radapex
Registered User
 
radapex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Canada, Eh
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,392
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mario_is_BACK!! View Post
Literally the only people I've seen throw out this number are fans who are completely guessing.
It's not quite a guess, it's based off his current contract being identical to Crosby's. The first 8 years of Crosby's new contract is worth $86.4-million for an average of $10.8-million per year.

radapex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-09-2013, 11:29 AM
  #242
radapex
Registered User
 
radapex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Canada, Eh
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,392
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shady Machine View Post
I think we should just agree to disagree and move on. Having Crosby does not make Malkin expendable. I could at least understand the argument when you had Staal as your 3rd line center but not now.
Getting a 2nd line center would be a prerequisite for trading Malkin. There's no way he'd be moved without there being a suitable replacement within the organization, or one coming back as part of the trade.

radapex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-09-2013, 11:30 AM
  #243
Shockmaster
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 6,222
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mario_is_BACK!! View Post
Once again it's everyone else that's wrong and that one person is clearly right.

I'm done with this.
Sorry not everybody has the same viewpoints.

Shockmaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-09-2013, 11:30 AM
  #244
Mario_is_BACK!!
ACK! ACK ACK! ACK!!!
 
Mario_is_BACK!!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Charleston, SC
Country: United States
Posts: 3,171
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Mario_is_BACK!! Send a message via MSN to Mario_is_BACK!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by radapex View Post
It's not quite a guess, it's based off his current contract being identical to Crosby's. The first 8 years of Crosby's new contract is worth $86.4-million for an average of $10.8-million per year.
And once again all I've seen is speculation from fans. Nothing at all from the player, his agent, the team or even insiders.

Mario_is_BACK!! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-09-2013, 11:31 AM
  #245
Mario_is_BACK!!
ACK! ACK ACK! ACK!!!
 
Mario_is_BACK!!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Charleston, SC
Country: United States
Posts: 3,171
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Mario_is_BACK!! Send a message via MSN to Mario_is_BACK!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shockmaster View Post
Sorry not everybody has the same viewpoints.
It's one thing to have a different view point. It's another to continue that in the face of every evidence to the contrary as has been continually pointed out. But what ever floats your boat.

Mario_is_BACK!! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-09-2013, 11:34 AM
  #246
Shady Machine
Registered User
 
Shady Machine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 16,919
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by radapex View Post
Getting a 2nd line center would be a prerequisite for trading Malkin. There's no way he'd be moved without there being a suitable replacement within the organization, or one coming back as part of the trade.
That sounds nice in theory, but what team is out there with really good young 2nd line centers that they will part with along with 2nd line wingers? The point is that the return we would need to feel good is one no team would go for. If we were trading with Edmonton, I'd want Eberle and the Nuge. Not going to happen. Basically, there isn't a trade out there that wouldn't feel like we got ripped off.

Shady Machine is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-09-2013, 11:35 AM
  #247
laufer72
Ashburton Grove
 
laufer72's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Country: Croatia
Posts: 2,176
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by radapex View Post
That's the problem though... if Malkin does get the $10-11M per year contract almost everyone is expecting him to, then it's going to be nearly impossible to ice one extraordinary line let alone two due to cap implications.
I'm pretty sure Shero has much better idea about that than either of us, and he repeatedly stated that re-signing Malkin is his priority this off-season.

laufer72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-09-2013, 11:37 AM
  #248
Shockmaster
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 6,222
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mario_is_BACK!! View Post
It's one thing to have a different view point. It's another to continue that in the face of every evidence to the contrary as has been continually pointed out. But what ever floats your boat.
Looks to me like you're doing the very same thing you're accusing me of.

Sorry, but even considering all that Malkin has done in his career, when you have Crosby, Letang is more important to get signed.

Shockmaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-09-2013, 11:38 AM
  #249
radapex
Registered User
 
radapex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Canada, Eh
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,392
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by laufer72 View Post
I'm pretty sure Shero has much better idea about that than either of us, and he repeatedly stated that re-signing Malkin is his priority this off-season.
He's also said that re-signing Letang is a priority. Given that OEL got $5.5-million from Phoenix, it's hard to see Letang getting less than $5-million from the Pens.

It's the same issue they're going to run into with Malkin. The money Anaheim threw at Perry & Getzlaf, especially coming off very poor seasons (60 & 57 points respectively) is going to make it nearly impossible to retain Malkin at a reasonable price.

Of course, if Malkin decides to chase a pay day then there's no stopping him - he's a UFA at the end of next season.

radapex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-09-2013, 11:41 AM
  #250
Shady Machine
Registered User
 
Shady Machine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 16,919
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shockmaster View Post
Looks to me like you're doing the very same thing you're accusing me of.

Sorry, but even considering all that Malkin has done in his career, when you have Crosby, Letang is more important to get signed.
Just because you keep saying it over and over again doesn't make it right. IF Letang was Weber or Chara then you have an argument. Letang is not in the same company on defense as Malkin is as a forward. Take into account the prospect pool and the quality of defenders we have on our team right now and it's not even close. You move Letang 100 times out of 100 before you move Malkin.

Shady Machine is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:37 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.