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Can Malkin carry us again?

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Old
04-09-2013, 03:22 PM
  #351
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It's absolutely absurd how overrated Letang is.

The dude can't even be a power play quarterback yet somehow is top 5 in the league...Give me a break. Only reason he's in discussion is because of Bylsma's system and the Pens being a high scoring offense.

Look at him w/o Geno and Sid in the lineup and then try to argue.

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04-09-2013, 04:02 PM
  #352
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IcedCapp View Post
It wasn't one of those 3, plus Gardiner, plus the 1st

Kadri + JVR/Frattin + Gardiner + 1st

In my benevolence, I let you keep Kulemin, which is the ancient secret to re-signing Malkin.


I think you guys should keep him IMO. Malkin is also the perfect 1-2 punch unless he says otherwise where he wants to be the top dog. I still remember when crosby went down Malkin with god mode. Also from reading the little I have, or skimming it, people really also underestimate Letangs value to your team. I know I'm high on Despres since I've known friends playing against him in the Q but don't think you can take the hit where Despres will take over, possibly Morrow but not Despres. I always thought simon would be more expendable than Morrow but I was surprised it was quite the other way around.

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04-09-2013, 04:04 PM
  #353
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To answer the OP.

Yes. Yes he can. He has a borscht level of over 9000.

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04-09-2013, 04:05 PM
  #354
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PantherDigest View Post
It's absolutely absurd how overrated Letang is.

The dude can't even be a power play quarterback yet somehow is top 5 in the league...Give me a break. Only reason he's in discussion is because of Bylsma's system and the Pens being a high scoring offense.

Look at him w/o Geno and Sid in the lineup and then try to argue.
He might not be a top 5 but he's around in the top 15 in some manner or form. He's fairly young too, you gotta be patient with him. Remember, defensemen take longer to form out to be their better self. Hockey fans in general have been spoiled in recent times of seeing great guys like Doughty, Pietrangelo and so on.

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04-09-2013, 04:05 PM
  #355
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I will be one happy camper when Malkin gets his 8 year $10M cap hit deal and Letang gets his $6-7M deal (or himself is traded), so I can stop watching an entire forum be sucked into a stupid conversation by a guy who is not offering substance behind anything he says. These trade Malkin threads for the next few months are going to be hard to take because they're not based on anything real. No demonstrated math, no precedent, no indications from the team or the player, nothing. Just a desire to get a reaction out of people.

Prepare for padlocks.



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04-09-2013, 04:08 PM
  #356
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Originally Posted by Dying Alive View Post
You're never going to get fair value for Malkin unless you take on considerably more salary in a quality for quantity trade, and then what's the point?
The point is that you don't tie up $9 million for eight years in a single player who could get injured who who might go south like he has in the past and is doing currently.

Trading him is the rational move, but never fear, Shero won't do it. It's ironic that people think he was smart in letting Gonchar and overrated Staal go but forget that he offered each of them a big contract. It's not just Shero, though. NHL GM's seem to fall in love with their players. That's why GM's always hold on to their players beyond their "best before" and end up sorry. Iginla is a perfect example.

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04-09-2013, 04:16 PM
  #357
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Originally Posted by kshinkman View Post
The point is that you don't tie up $9 million for eight years in a single player who could get injured who who might go south like he has in the past and is doing currently.


Malkin has 27Pts in 26 Games, despite players missing from the PP all year and having no continuity on his line. Yah, he's going south like a mofo. And he might get injured, unlike all the other highly paid players in this league!

Frickin PPG bum!

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04-09-2013, 04:25 PM
  #358
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I still think Malkin's goal scoring drought this year is due to an injured wrist. I remember him taking a slash in like game 2 or 3 of the season, and him wincing on the bench. Since then, he just hasn't had the same velocity/accuracy on his shot.

It's probably an injury that's not severe enough to actually sit out for, as he can do all the other stuff (stickhandle, pass, etc.). It just hampers his ability to get any sort of power behind his shots.

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04-09-2013, 04:47 PM
  #359
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Wouldn't be surprised (wrist -- I do remember that although it hadn't occured to me recently), but what I always notice about Malkin is, whenever the doubters come out saying he's losing it, he's still right around PPG or a little higher. So you know when a player is struggling and he's PPG... what can you say really? This stuff should be self-evident to anyone who follows the team closely. When he's really on he's like 1.5PPG. He truly is a generational talent but because he's Russian and not Sid the N. American Savior, some people get all panicky and start wondering about stuff like trades when there's absolutely no reason to do that.

The whole "Letang might be worth keeping if we can't keep both thing", in light of their individual accomplishments, injury history, and limitations as players, and in light of who is in our system and who isn't, is laughable. I don't even acknowledge that crap when it comes up most of the time. I doubt Letang himself would suggest that if Shero's hand were forced, he'd do anything other than keep Geno.

It's surreal when you think about it. The side effect of Gretzky going to LA still lingers today in conversations like this one. July 1 can't get here quick enough so we can get this nonsense overwith and hand out our collective I told ya so's.

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04-09-2013, 05:42 PM
  #360
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Originally Posted by Leaf Rocket View Post
He might not be a top 5 but he's around in the top 15 in some manner or form. He's fairly young too, you gotta be patient with him. Remember, defensemen take longer to form out to be their better self. Hockey fans in general have been spoiled in recent times of seeing great guys like Doughty, Pietrangelo and so on.
He's top15 for sure. Let's be honest though-Letang is passed the point of maturing his game to a peak. He can only get smarter now. He relies on his speed way too much.

Letang isn't a prospect. He's a hardened NHL regular(or he should be by now).

I think he's awesome but he'll never be close to Geno, ever.

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04-09-2013, 07:09 PM
  #361
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Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
Wouldn't be surprised (wrist -- I do remember that although it hadn't occured to me recently), but what I always notice about Malkin is, whenever the doubters come out saying he's losing it, he's still right around PPG or a little higher. So you know when a player is struggling and he's PPG... what can you say really? This stuff should be self-evident to anyone who follows the team closely. When he's really on he's like 1.5PPG. He truly is a generational talent but because he's Russian and not Sid the N. American Savior, some people get all panicky and start wondering about stuff like trades when there's absolutely no reason to do that.

The whole "Letang might be worth keeping if we can't keep both thing", in light of their individual accomplishments, injury history, and limitations as players, and in light of who is in our system and who isn't, is laughable. I don't even acknowledge that crap when it comes up most of the time. I doubt Letang himself would suggest that if Shero's hand were forced, he'd do anything other than keep Geno.

It's surreal when you think about it. The side effect of Gretzky going to LA still lingers today in conversations like this one. July 1 can't get here quick enough so we can get this nonsense overwith and hand out our collective I told ya so's.
Just want to clear this up: Malkin's only ever been even close to 1.5PPG once in his career, and that was 1.45PPG last season. For comparison, Crosby's averaged 1.41PPG over his entire career and has a high of 1.68PPG.

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04-09-2013, 09:13 PM
  #362
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Originally Posted by Leaf Rocket View Post


I think you guys should keep him IMO. Malkin is also the perfect 1-2 punch unless he says otherwise where he wants to be the top dog. I still remember when crosby went down Malkin with god mode. Also from reading the little I have, or skimming it, people really also underestimate Letangs value to your team. I know I'm high on Despres since I've known friends playing against him in the Q but don't think you can take the hit where Despres will take over, possibly Morrow but not Despres. I always thought simon would be more expendable than Morrow but I was surprised it was quite the other way around.
I don't want to get rid of him. But if we're discussing the topic, I'm listing potential deals - of which there are very few - that would even make me think about trading Malkin.

Is that a high price for Malkin (from the Leafs)? Absolutely, and I'm not saying that should/would say yes, but if Pominville grabs 3 1st round picks/prospects and a 2nd, i think Malkin is getting significantly more.

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04-09-2013, 09:42 PM
  #363
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Originally Posted by PantherDigest View Post
He's top15 for sure. Let's be honest though-Letang is passed the point of maturing his game to a peak. He can only get smarter now. He relies on his speed way too much.

Letang isn't a prospect. He's a hardened NHL regular(or he should be by now).

I think he's awesome but he'll never be close to Geno, ever.
He might not be a prospect but he's still a budding player. He's only 25ish I think ? So be patient with him, players get better and strive to excel more and more. Letang seems to be capable of that. Dion Phaneuf at one point was known for his offense but brutal at his defense, with those big hits. Yet he's atm spear heading our defense non stop shutting down top lines. The amount of change, we've witnessed from him is pretty amazing actually. From a guy who'd love to hit, pinch in at the WORST time possible, and fight at times as well randomly to prove a point, has become a calming presence all while playing musical chairs with his defense partner. He's what 28 now I think? So just let him play it out.

However to think Geno and Letang holds the same value is IMO pretty foolish as that would be mean, Letang is this generation's Al Macinnis? Which is not what I see in him. He's great but Geno is in another class really, which I agree with you for.
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Originally Posted by IcedCapp View Post
I don't want to get rid of him. But if we're discussing the topic, I'm listing potential deals - of which there are very few - that would even make me think about trading Malkin.

Is that a high price for Malkin (from the Leafs)? Absolutely, and I'm not saying that should/would say yes, but if Pominville grabs 3 1st round picks/prospects and a 2nd, i think Malkin is getting significantly more.
I think the sabres did well because the wild are desperate for playoff berth and can actually afford that hit. The fact they have a guy named Mikael Granlund, all while in their system they have a good skilled guy named Zach Philips, a acquaintance of mine, the loss of larsson wasn't big. Many known the leafs are out of the playoffs for a while but the wild haven't been having the best luck either. Last year especially when they seemed so great and poised to go for it, then crash like crazy. The acquisition of Parise, and Suter only helped them even further and they believed that risk can be worth it to fasten the process of finally get there. So they were extremely lucky and in the right spot at the right time situation really IMO.

For Malkin to be moved, the price would have to be huge and from team that would basically give up their coveted prizes while at the same time be able to take such a hit, if you ask the leafs that, no way Jose as much as I'd LOVE to have Malkin on our team. To find a suitor who can pitch an offer Shero can be trouble some. As the dance partner IMO has to be a serious contender with a wealth of prospects with some capable of players who are still growing or a team that has a ton of prospects and some solidified players but need a star to build around. IMO there are two who fit that bit, one would be the Oilers who can spare some of their young prospects to make a move but wont because of their idiotic GM who prolly just sleeps in the front office. The other would be the blues, who have good pieces, a good system but a stack of wingers if anything.

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04-10-2013, 08:07 AM
  #364
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Originally Posted by Leaf Rocket View Post
He might not be a prospect but he's still a budding player. He's only 25ish I think ? So be patient with him, players get better and strive to excel more and more. Letang seems to be capable of that. Dion Phaneuf at one point was known for his offense but brutal at his defense, with those big hits. Yet he's atm spear heading our defense non stop shutting down top lines. The amount of change, we've witnessed from him is pretty amazing actually. From a guy who'd love to hit, pinch in at the WORST time possible, and fight at times as well randomly to prove a point, has become a calming presence all while playing musical chairs with his defense partner. He's what 28 now I think? So just let him play it out.

However to think Geno and Letang holds the same value is IMO pretty foolish as that would be mean, Letang is this generation's Al Macinnis? Which is not what I see in him. He's great but Geno is in another class really, which I agree with you for.


I think the sabres did well because the wild are desperate for playoff berth and can actually afford that hit. The fact they have a guy named Mikael Granlund, all while in their system they have a good skilled guy named Zach Philips, a acquaintance of mine, the loss of larsson wasn't big. Many known the leafs are out of the playoffs for a while but the wild haven't been having the best luck either. Last year especially when they seemed so great and poised to go for it, then crash like crazy. The acquisition of Parise, and Suter only helped them even further and they believed that risk can be worth it to fasten the process of finally get there. So they were extremely lucky and in the right spot at the right time situation really IMO.

For Malkin to be moved, the price would have to be huge and from team that would basically give up their coveted prizes while at the same time be able to take such a hit, if you ask the leafs that, no way Jose as much as I'd LOVE to have Malkin on our team. To find a suitor who can pitch an offer Shero can be trouble some. As the dance partner IMO has to be a serious contender with a wealth of prospects with some capable of players who are still growing or a team that has a ton of prospects and some solidified players but need a star to build around. IMO there are two who fit that bit, one would be the Oilers who can spare some of their young prospects to make a move but wont because of their idiotic GM who prolly just sleeps in the front office. The other would be the blues, who have good pieces, a good system but a stack of wingers if anything.
The only way Shero trades Malkin is if he won't resign this summer. If that happens, he's going to have problems getting anywhere close to what anyone might consider value unless he's immediately willing to sign an extension with that team. No team is selling the farm for one year of Malkin without real confidence that he will sign with them.

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04-10-2013, 08:15 AM
  #365
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Originally Posted by Leaf Rocket View Post
He might not be a prospect but he's still a budding player. He's only 25ish I think ? So be patient with him, players get better and strive to excel more and more. Letang seems to be capable of that. Dion Phaneuf at one point was known for his offense but brutal at his defense, with those big hits. Yet he's atm spear heading our defense non stop shutting down top lines. The amount of change, we've witnessed from him is pretty amazing actually. From a guy who'd love to hit, pinch in at the WORST time possible, and fight at times as well randomly to prove a point, has become a calming presence all while playing musical chairs with his defense partner. He's what 28 now I think? So just let him play it out.

However to think Geno and Letang holds the same value is IMO pretty foolish as that would be mean, Letang is this generation's Al Macinnis? Which is not what I see in him. He's great but Geno is in another class really, which I agree with you for.


I think the sabres did well because the wild are desperate for playoff berth and can actually afford that hit. The fact they have a guy named Mikael Granlund, all while in their system they have a good skilled guy named Zach Philips, a acquaintance of mine, the loss of larsson wasn't big. Many known the leafs are out of the playoffs for a while but the wild haven't been having the best luck either. Last year especially when they seemed so great and poised to go for it, then crash like crazy. The acquisition of Parise, and Suter only helped them even further and they believed that risk can be worth it to fasten the process of finally get there. So they were extremely lucky and in the right spot at the right time situation really IMO.

For Malkin to be moved, the price would have to be huge and from team that would basically give up their coveted prizes while at the same time be able to take such a hit, if you ask the leafs that, no way Jose as much as I'd LOVE to have Malkin on our team. To find a suitor who can pitch an offer Shero can be trouble some. As the dance partner IMO has to be a serious contender with a wealth of prospects with some capable of players who are still growing or a team that has a ton of prospects and some solidified players but need a star to build around. IMO there are two who fit that bit, one would be the Oilers who can spare some of their young prospects to make a move but wont because of their idiotic GM who prolly just sleeps in the front office. The other would be the blues, who have good pieces, a good system but a stack of wingers if anything.
I think Letang is better than Phaneuf. But Letang has shown no signs of improvement on PP QB. None. His shot just isn't there. He either doesn't have it or he has no confidence at all on the PP. Not sure age will help.

But we agree with the main point: Geno is way more valuable than Tanger.

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04-10-2013, 08:16 AM
  #366
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The only way Shero trades Malkin is if he won't resign this summer. If that happens, he's going to have problems getting anywhere close to what anyone might consider value unless he's immediately willing to sign an extension with that team. No team is selling the farm for one year of Malkin without real confidence that he will sign with them.
Not really sure about that. 1 year of Malkin on a playoff team can make them a contender. Just like a rental, why not if the goal is the Cup?

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04-10-2013, 08:17 AM
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I think Letang is better than Phaneuf. But Letang has shown no signs of improvement on PP QB. None. His shot just isn't there. He either doesn't have it or he has no confidence at all on the PP. Not sure age will help.

But we agree with the main point: Geno is way more valuable than Tanger.
Just a comment on Letang: I think the appropriate thing to say about Letang is that what prevents him from being an elite PP QB is his shot. I am loathe to be any more negative than that having watched Niskanen QB the Pens PP the last few games.

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04-10-2013, 08:18 AM
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Just a comment on Letang: I think the appropriate thing to say about Letang is that what prevents him from being an elite PP QB is his shot. I am loathe to be any more negative than that having watched Niskanen QB the Pens PP the last few games.
His playmaking abilities aren't very good either. Gonchar is still much better than Letang on the PP imo.

I haven't seen a one-timer from a Tanger pass all year.

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04-10-2013, 08:18 AM
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Not really sure about that. 1 year of Malkin on a playoff team can make them a contender. Just like a rental, why not if the goal is the Cup?
By selling the farm, I meant gutting the team. I'll put it another way: Look at what the Pens got for Staal. They got that because Rutherford was sure he could resign him. It was a hockey trade. I don't think you get a hockey trade for Malkin unless the other team is sure they, unlike the Pens, can resign him immediately. A great return . . . sure. A hockey trade-- one that excludes consideration that Malkin may just be a rental-- no.

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04-10-2013, 08:20 AM
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By selling the farm, I meant gutting the team. I'll put it another way: Look at what the Pens got for Staal. They got that because Rutherford was sure he could resign him. It was a hockey trade. I don't think you get a hockey trade for Malkin unless the other team is sure they, unlike the Pens, can resign him immediately. A great return . . . sure. A hockey trade-- one that excludes consideration that Malkin may just be a rental-- no.
Well I don't know if we'd get many roster players back in that kind of deal.

It's absurd to even think about. Malkin needs resigned. It is an absolute must. Forget wingerz. Forget a crease clearing defensemen. We need Geno imo.

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04-10-2013, 08:21 AM
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Well I don't know if we'd get many roster players back in that kind of deal.

It's absurd to even think about. Malkin needs resigned. It is an absolute must. Forget wingerz. Forget a crease clearing defensemen. We need Geno imo.
I agree. That wasn't my point.

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04-10-2013, 08:23 AM
  #372
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I agree. That wasn't my point.
Yea I know. Just can't believe this is even a conversation right now

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04-10-2013, 08:23 AM
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Yea I know. Just can't believe this is even a conversation right now
It's HFBoards. Why can't you believe it?

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04-10-2013, 08:39 AM
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It's HFBoards. Why can't you believe it?
Part of me still held onto the hope that the Pens board would be able to control itself

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04-10-2013, 08:52 AM
  #375
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The only way Shero trades Malkin is if he won't resign this summer. If that happens, he's going to have problems getting anywhere close to what anyone might consider value unless he's immediately willing to sign an extension with that team. No team is selling the farm for one year of Malkin without real confidence that he will sign with them.
That's absolutely false.

Look what Staal returned. Yes a team will take him on. A team will take him on to try and sell him on their team. Where would he likely go or want to go? Plus don't forget that team would have to have the parts period. If you're thinking the Jagr disaster, Shero would never settle for that.

Shero also wouldn't be looking for all futures since Geno will be missed in the lineup. Shero will have his must have player(s) or it's no deal. Remember the GM of the other team doesn't want him getting anywhere near the UFA market either. At that point he is fair game for any GM to stroke him.

So while he won't get a return that shoots off many rockets, there will be rockets.

Put it this way. Staal returned a lesser Staal in Sutter ++. Say Geno "wants" to go to LA. Shero could then demand Anze Kopitar++. The ++ would be a 1st and 2nd. Kopitar's contract is only one more year than Geno's, but it's cheaper and more manageable for the Pens in the future. Both are about the same age. I think it would be a huge sell that a 2 time Art Ross winner/playoff MVP and top 2/3 player in the league would make that happen. No pressure to play behind Sid, Noting: he does relish that he's not the main spotlight figurehead. He would be in LA. That's a huge upgrade for them. The Pens can't let him walk away for futures only.

That would be my demand, Kopitar. The rest is moot should he want out.


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