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Penguins sign Harrison Ruopp to a 3 year ELC

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Old
04-06-2013, 04:40 PM
  #51
SEALBound
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
Huh?
Joe Morrow is a former Penguins defensive prospect. Often viewed by Pens fans as our #1 dman prospect. Played a few games with the Penguins in the pre-season and showed a lot of promise.

Recently, Joe Morrow was traded for Stars captain Brenden Morrow (no relation). Many agree that it may have been a steep price for an aging grinder.

Ruopp was just recently signed, ala this thread. So being that Ruopp is obviously someone Shero feels needs to be a part of the team and Morrow just got traded (see above), were we (as Pens fans) overrating Morrow?

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Old
04-06-2013, 05:10 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SEALBound View Post
Joe Morrow is a former Penguins defensive prospect. Often viewed by Pens fans as our #1 dman prospect. Played a few games with the Penguins in the pre-season and showed a lot of promise.

Recently, Joe Morrow was traded for Stars captain Brenden Morrow (no relation). Many agree that it may have been a steep price for an aging grinder.

Ruopp was just recently signed, ala this thread. So being that Ruopp is obviously someone Shero feels needs to be a part of the team and Morrow just got traded (see above), were we (as Pens fans) overrating Morrow?
Yeah... that still doesn't make sense.

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04-06-2013, 05:19 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by MrBurgundy View Post
Yeah... that still doesn't make sense.
What he's saying makes sense (Ruopp is valued higher since we signed him and moved Morrow), just don't think that it's true. I'd think if Ruopp OR Morrow was being asked for Morrow, that Ruopp would've been the one moved.

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Old
04-06-2013, 06:35 PM
  #54
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Morrow was traded to make space for roupp on the baby pens roster is what e was trying to say.

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04-06-2013, 06:40 PM
  #55
Mr Jiggyfly
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SEALBound View Post
Joe Morrow is a former Penguins defensive prospect. Often viewed by Pens fans as our #1 dman prospect. Played a few games with the Penguins in the pre-season and showed a lot of promise.

Recently, Joe Morrow was traded for Stars captain Brenden Morrow (no relation). Many agree that it may have been a steep price for an aging grinder.

Ruopp was just recently signed, ala this thread. So being that Ruopp is obviously someone Shero feels needs to be a part of the team and Morrow just got traded (see above), were we (as Pens fans) overrating Morrow?
I have zero doubts the Stars targeted offensive blueliners and wanted one who was close to NHL ready.

I'm also quite confident Morrow is the guy they targeted. Shero trading him had more to do with who the Stars wanted, than him being at the top of the list of guys Shero was willing to move.

The Pens traded a good prospect and trying to downplay his talent now because he is gone makes people look like... Caps fans.

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04-06-2013, 06:54 PM
  #56
Jacob
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SEALBound View Post
Joe Morrow is a former Penguins defensive prospect. Often viewed by Pens fans as our #1 dman prospect. Played a few games with the Penguins in the pre-season and showed a lot of promise.

Recently, Joe Morrow was traded for Stars captain Brenden Morrow (no relation). Many agree that it may have been a steep price for an aging grinder.

Ruopp was just recently signed, ala this thread. So being that Ruopp is obviously someone Shero feels needs to be a part of the team and Morrow just got traded (see above), were we (as Pens fans) overrating Morrow?
I'm sure the Penguins traded Morrow over Ruopp because they just like Ruopp a whole lot more and not because Morrow is the one that had, you know, the highest trade value or anything.

And I'm also betting that they only signed Ruopp *because* of the Morrow trade. Yep. Those two things are definitely connected. Everyone knows if a team wants to sign a prospect they first have to get rid of another one. You're firing on all cylinders tonight, SEALBound.

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04-06-2013, 07:31 PM
  #57
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What I was trying to say was...I thought of Morrow as untouchable. I thought he was our best prospect...yet Shero was willing to trade him for B. Morrow...which struck me as odd because I believed that J Morrow held more value than that.

Now, Ruopp has been signed to an ELC. Awesome for him. Gotta be honest, don't know much about him other than we got him in the Michalek trade, Shero wanted to draft him but missed, and he hasn't been talked about much (at least as far as Pens d-prosps go). So obviously Shero sees value in him. He is someone Shero wants here.

So...given this and the Morrow trade (which I admit is unrelated), did Morrow hold as much value as we all thought he did given that Shero was willing to trade him for B Morrow and keep/sign Ruopp?

I guess the another way to ask is: Does/Did Ruopp hold more value than Morrow? Did we overvalue Morrow given the trade? Shero was willing to trade Morrow and keep Ruopp...did Shero value Morrow as much as we did?

Taking it further...of all the d prospects we could have traded...why Morrow? Was it do to his value to Shero? Does Shero value Ruopp higher than Morrow?

Not quite sure how to make the question anymore clear than that...

I admit, its not totally relevant to the thread but...

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04-06-2013, 07:34 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SEALBound View Post
Taking it further...of all the d prospects we could have traded...why Morrow? Was it do to his value to Shero? Does Shero value Ruopp higher than Morrow?
Because he was buying Brenden Morrow, he wasn't selling Joe Morrow.

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04-06-2013, 07:37 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by clefty View Post
Because he was buying Brenden Morrow, he wasn't selling Joe Morrow.
Okay, fair enough.

So the question still remains...do you think Shero valued Morrow as high as we did?

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04-06-2013, 07:45 PM
  #60
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What does "we" mean? There's a myriad of opinions I'm sure. And I don't think it's important if that matches up with Ray's opinion - he wanted Brenden Morrow and paid the price that was asked. It doesn't need to be any more complicated than that.

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04-06-2013, 07:50 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SEALBound View Post
What I was trying to say was...I thought of Morrow as untouchable. I thought he was our best prospect...yet Shero was willing to trade him for B. Morrow...which struck me as odd because I believed that J Morrow held more value than that.

Now, Ruopp has been signed to an ELC. Awesome for him. Gotta be honest, don't know much about him other than we got him in the Michalek trade, Shero wanted to draft him but missed, and he hasn't been talked about much (at least as far as Pens d-prosps go). So obviously Shero sees value in him. He is someone Shero wants here.

So...given this and the Morrow trade (which I admit is unrelated), did Morrow hold as much value as we all thought he did given that Shero was willing to trade him for B Morrow and keep/sign Ruopp?

I guess the another way to ask is: Does/Did Ruopp hold more value than Morrow? Did we overvalue Morrow given the trade? Shero was willing to trade Morrow and keep Ruopp...did Shero value Morrow as much as we did?

Taking it further...of all the d prospects we could have traded...why Morrow? Was it do to his value to Shero? Does Shero value Ruopp higher than Morrow?

Not quite sure how to make the question anymore clear than that...

I admit, its not totally relevant to the thread but...
If you look at Dallas' farm, they desperately need offensive blueliners. They have several nice stay at home blueliner prospects. So I'm fairly certain they were looking specifically at Despres, DP, Morrow and Maatta.

My guess is Despres and DP were non-starters. Morrow was the closest to NHL ready between he and Maatta, and I truly believe the Stars wanted Morrow. Nieuwendyk had all of the leverage (people are ignoring that for some odd reason) and he got the guy I believe he wanted all along (since he knew going in DP and Despres were not realistic targets).

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04-06-2013, 11:15 PM
  #62
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Reality Check

Ok, lot's of talk about a bunch of different issues (don't exactly know how J. Morrow made it into this thread). Morrow and Ruopp are apples and oranges in terms of types of players. Couldn't be more different, in fact.

But here's a reality check that needs to be stated: over the last year or so, Joe Morrow was NOT considered the top prospect by people within the Penguins organization. Yes, he was considered best by many Pens' fans because they were enamoured with his skating the one pre-season, beauty slap-shot goal he scored on the PP, but that's not the opinion that counts. The opinion that counts is within the Penguins managements offices and amongst their scouts. They liked Joe Morrow, a lot; but they didn't LOVE Joe Morrow. That's part of why they drafted Pouliot and Maatta, and that's why they were willing to trade Morrow over other defensive prospects.

Anything else beyond this is just conjecture.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ugene Malkin View Post
So..he'll be more of a replacement for someone else than Orpik by then. The Defense certainly looks bright in the next couple years.
I don't see him as a replacement for Orpik anytime soon, if at all. Orpik is a top-4 left-handed, left-side Dman who is big and plays a physical game, and has logged big minutes. I think Orpik's time and role will be replaced by guys like Despres, Harrington and Dumoulin. On the right side, Bortuzzo may play a similar type role to Orpik, and if we retain Murray (unlikely, but possible), then Murray will take some of the role that Orpik has (i.e. on the PK).

Ruopp is more likely to take over Engelland's role: a bottom pairing, right-side Dman who drops the gloves, protects our stars, and gives us a physical presence. I'm sure he'll spend a full 3 years in the AHL, and we'll see how/where he fits in based on how he develops. But he will probably take over Engo's spot as a #5/6/7 Dman who is moved in and out of the line-up, especially early in his career until he establishes himself. If he becomes anything more than this (which is possible), then that would just be a bonus. But at this point, nobody is projecting him to be the next Orpik/Regehr/Foote, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lastcupever75 View Post
I like what I see of him, But with our defensive depth, He might get caught in a numbers game.
Has he played any forward in his career
Because he plays a specific role that nobody outside of Engelland does, he probably does have a "spot to lose", so to speak, within our organization. And he probably won't be seriously pushing for a spot until after 3 years in WBS, by which time Engelland will be 34/35 years old, if he's even still with us. So Ruopp is pretty safe for now, but will have to play well enough to be a serviceable player who can play real minutes. He seems to be able to skate pretty well and decent at moving the puck, so he's got the chance to do that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by IcedCapp View Post
But HFBoards only has him as a 6.0C, so... bust?!?!?!
The HF Rankings systems is, frankly, bad and misleading. I have proposed a few different, alternate rating systems that better convey the qualities of a prospect, but there's no real appetite to change that right now. It's really not very important -- what's important is independent scouting reports by people who watch these kids play, or actually watching these kids play (duh) -- but the biggest issue with HF is that they RARELY ever change these rankings as these players develop. So, for example, if Bortuzzo was a "6C" when he was drafted, he would have remained a "6C" until he plays in the NHL and graduates...

I think we can all tell at this point that Bortuzzo does not merit a "6C" rating. But the ratings are not revised yearly, as they should be, and then you have people on these boards look at these ratings and believe they're accurate, which they are not. That is why they are poor and misleading. But alas. Just ignore the rankings, watch these kids play, and listen to reports from within the Pens' own organization (or other independent or NHL scouts) about how good any given player/prospect is.

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