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Phoenix LXXIV: Be Seeing You

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Old
04-12-2013, 05:03 PM
  #401
Killion
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Originally Posted by JimAnchower View Post
Now the NHL could decide that they will keep the team in Glendale another year if they think someone could make a deal in a reasonable time after May 31. Of course, they run the risk that this deal falls through just as the others have, and they are in the same position they are in now.
Ya, and much like 2010, 2011, 2012 stage managed whereby as the season winds down, suitor a/b/c or d purportedly is inevitably close to completing a purchase. Time running out, runs out on any moves. History essentially repeating itself over & over & over & over again. Same unsuccessful results, the very definition of insanity. Yes we have a new Mayor & Council who have "said" they wont extend the same kind of munificence upon the NHL nor a prospective buyer pursuant to Arena Management Fee's as the pasts did, but as we all know, pols change their minds more often than Taylor Swift changes her wardrobe during a concert. Honestly, I dont know that the NHL even cares if they lose another twenty or thirty million bucks, they'll get it back one way or the other, the whole dealeo being financed on a Visa card.

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04-12-2013, 05:09 PM
  #402
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The season is ending April 27 in almost exactly two weeks! lolll

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04-12-2013, 05:09 PM
  #403
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Of course, the Coyotes owner can just decide to play the games back at US Airways Center.
Huh? That might be the craziest thing I've heard since I started following this saga.

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04-12-2013, 05:13 PM
  #404
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Huh? That might be the craziest thing I've heard since I started following this saga.
You can thank a certain Mr. Fallar for it. I don't view it as an option, but someone could have responded with "Well, Jobing.com Arena isn't their only option in Phoenix as a home arena".

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04-12-2013, 06:03 PM
  #405
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Originally Posted by Llama19 View Post
To quote:

"In the 3 years in which the Arena Newco, LLC., (NHL) has been managing the arena, and according to the documents that they submitted to the city, the costs and revenues have been pretty consistent. Revenues average in the $6M to $7M range and expenses average about $12.5M. The Net Operating Loss average is about $5.5M."

Source: http://joyceclarkunfiltered.com/coyo...ncial-history/

Be seeing you!
This is the part I have a problem with "Through a Request for Information processed by the City of Glendale, I obtained information about arena management company finances over the years. I do not have a complete picture but I do have information that relates to 2006 to 2007, during the time when Jerry Moyes was the majority owner of the team and arena manager, and 2010 to 2013, the time that the NHL has been owner of the team and arena manager."

um ok you were on council for all those years. You should know this stuff!

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04-12-2013, 06:13 PM
  #406
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I suppose they potentially could aqib though how plausible or likely that might be... I'd say the chances slim to none as only two of them have any background in Arena Management. Gosbee/Leblanc & Pastor zero; if Jamisons even still breathing certainly he does though whether its actually hands-on from his days with the Sharks Im not completely certain, and if the Reinsdorfs are still about then sure (seriously doubt it at $170M, though never say never, its possible, anythings possible). I dont know, but what I do know is that I dont entirely trust Beacon Sports so how they've framed the RFP's, what they solicit, how its presented to the COG from whomever with Beacon the conduit, thats going to be interesting, with or without the Coyotes. On the one hand I applaud Glendale for finally looking at life without an anchor tenant, but in hiring Beacon they returned to yesterday in employing yet another consultancy firm who's reputation is less than sterling and who have a track record in Az specific to this very mess of a situation that carrys an odour.
I haven't seen the RFP, it wasn't on Glendale's site when I went to look. However, if it is open ended enough Coyotes Buyer X could submit a proposal that includes him buying the team and make his proposal contingent on that, Bass Pro Shops could submit a proposal to make into a giant Bass Pro Shop (like they did in Memphis to the Pyramid and tried to do in Buffalo to the Aud), and Global Spectrum could submit a bid to make it an event venue etc. That would leave council the opportunity to evaluate all the different options. We have gone around and around 78,000 times about the different things that Glendale could do with the building but its been all speculation because Glendale never allowed for options that didn't include someone owning the Coyotes and having them play there so there were no concrete proposals.

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04-12-2013, 06:27 PM
  #407
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Watch Gary Bettman rig it so the Coyotes sneak into the playoffs, and have another 'miraculous' playoff run, thus buying more time to keep them in Glendale.

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04-12-2013, 06:32 PM
  #408
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...um ok you were on council for all those years. You should know this stuff!
I believe information was deliberately with held from the Mayor & Council by Messr's Beasley & possibly Craig Tindall as well. Its important to remember, to put this into context, that with the exception of Mayor Elaine Scruggs the Council Member positions are all part-time gig's, these people having had no real World experience in dealing with anything of the magnitude of a $500M+ development in the arena alone (including the Bonding), let alone Ellmans dealeo with Westgate, Reinsdorfs & MLB's Camelback & so on & so forth. Way out of their leagues, depths, clearly in over their heads.

Until recently, Glendale was little more than a dusty town, farm land. These are not sophisticated people when it comes to this sort of rapid development, absolutely beyond their comprehension, reliant upon what was supposed to have been (and paid very well indeed) a City Manager & Attorney for guidance & direction. That this information was with held, "buried within the bowels of Glendale City Hall" as she puts it does not surprise me. They all of them, Scruggs, Lieberman, the lot, they didnt even know really what questions to ask so beyond their limited scopes of experiences were these decidedly bent triangulations. Easy to just say "well, then their just Rubes and deserve what they get" I suppose, but I dont do that, wont go there. These people are small towner's, they were lied to, manipulated. By insiders, by Ellman & the NHL.

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04-12-2013, 06:36 PM
  #409
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Originally Posted by JimAnchower View Post
You can thank a certain Mr. Fallar for it. I don't view it as an option, but someone could have responded with "Well, Jobing.com Arena isn't their only option in Phoenix as a home arena".
Well, that explains that. Another fine moment for TeamBeavis.

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04-12-2013, 06:50 PM
  #410
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I believe information was deliberately with held from the Mayor & Council by Messr's Beasley & possibly Craig Tindall as well. Its important to remember, to put this into context, that with the exception of Mayor Elaine Scruggs the Council Member positions are all part-time gig's, these people having had no real World experience in dealing with anything of the magnitude of a $500M+ development in the arena alone (including the Bonding), let alone Ellmans dealeo with Westgate, Reinsdorfs & MLB's Camelback & so on & so forth. Way out of their leagues, depths, clearly in over their heads.

Until recently, Glendale was little more than a dusty town, farm land. These are not sophisticated people when it comes to this sort of rapid development, absolutely beyond their comprehension, reliant upon what was supposed to have been (and paid very well indeed) a City Manager & Attorney for guidance & direction. That this information was with held, "buried within the bowels of Glendale City Hall" as she puts it does not surprise me. They all of them, Scruggs, Lieberman, the lot, they didnt even know really what questions to ask so beyond their limited scopes of experiences were these decidedly bent triangulations. Easy to just say "well, then their just Rubes and deserve what they get" I suppose, but I dont do that, wont go there. These people are small towner's, they were lied to, manipulated. By insiders, by Ellman & the NHL.
Yes but this was a slow motion train wreck and multiple AMFs were negotiated with significant dollars involved, many of which Clark was an extremely vocal supporter of. Wouldn't this have been relevant prior to her voting for the Jamison deal the first and second time.

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04-12-2013, 06:57 PM
  #411
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Yes but this was a slow motion train wreck and multiple AMFs... Wouldn't this have been relevant prior to her voting for the Jamison deal the first and second time.
Ya, see, I really dont wanna get into that aqib. Im not going to take on that case nor any others in defending Clark's nor anyone elses' actions, their voting records, being an apologist, even trying to explain it. Either you understand how & why such things can happen & empathize to some degree or you dont.

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04-12-2013, 07:08 PM
  #412
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Ya, see, I really dont wanna get into that aqib. Im not going to take on that case nor any others in defending Clark's nor anyone elses' actions, their voting records, being an apologist, even trying to explain it. Either you understand how & why such things can happen & empathize to some degree or you dont.
Well I wasn't bringing that up as much to re-litigate the past as much as to impugn her credibility currently. All of a sudden she is doing her homework that she never did before.

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04-12-2013, 07:10 PM
  #413
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Either you understand how & why such things can happen & empathize to some degree or you dont.
Understand and empathize? Hmm, seems like my understand and ridicule, repeat, and self aggrandize style has some room for improvement...

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04-12-2013, 07:16 PM
  #414
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All of a sudden she is doing her homework that she never did before.
That's a giant leap.

Politicians are rarely as smart or as dumb as they appear to be. The odds of her suddenly starting to do her "homework" are extremely low - if she's doing it now, she was almost certainly doing it before, as well.

 
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04-12-2013, 07:25 PM
  #415
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Well I wasn't bringing that up as much to re-litigate the past as much as to impugn her credibility currently. All of a sudden she is doing her homework that she never did before.
Indeed. And you can look upon that askance, cynically, in that maybe she's being disingenuous, revisionist, backfilling etc, or perhaps something else. Im not about to try & tell you what you yourself should decide, you'll base that on your own lifes experiences, how you see things, appraise the situation, take stock & measure of one Joyce Clark, Elaine Scruggs or whomever. Thats your prerogative & right.

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Understand and empathize? Hmm, seems like my understand and ridicule, repeat, and self aggrandize style has some room for improvement...
Actually no CF. Like a fine wine, you just get better with age naturally, though rather than mellowing, and I speak from no small experience, that "mellowing" bit is a misnomer if ever there was one. Seems the older we get, the less patience we have for those who are naive', incompetent, corrupt or just plain stupid. Worse still, Quadruple Threats. Combination of all 4.

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04-12-2013, 08:18 PM
  #416
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What happened to the proposals supposedly submitted to the league by Messrs. Pastor and Gosbee? My guess is that they were so light in cash and long on contingencies that GB is too embarrassed to release details! Better yet the pawns never gave him any proposals, the Commish is going with that deception until the season ends!

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04-12-2013, 08:28 PM
  #417
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I expect some group or several to submit something to Beacon to manage jobing.com with the Coyotes. I fully expect it to be in the 10-12 million range per season. The cog will reject it and the NHL will leave Glendale putting the blame soely on the COG's unwilingness to do business.

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04-13-2013, 02:03 AM
  #418
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I expect some group or several to submit something to Beacon to manage jobing.com with the Coyotes. I fully expect it to be in the 10-12 million range per season. The cog will reject it and the NHL will leave Glendale putting the blame soely on the COG's unwilingness to do business.
If someone submits a bid to manage the arena for $6 million to bring a bunch of concerts, trade shows, minor league sports, etc and someone else submits a $15 million bid with the Coyotes then Glendale can simply do the calculation to see if the Coyotes are worth an extra $9 million.

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04-13-2013, 02:04 AM
  #419
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What happened to the proposals supposedly submitted to the league by Messrs. Pastor and Gosbee? My guess is that they were so light in cash and long on contingencies that GB is too embarrassed to release details! Better yet the pawns never gave him any proposals, the Commish is going with that deception until the season ends!
Try giving Mr. Bettman a call and ask him.

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04-13-2013, 02:08 AM
  #420
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If someone submits a bid to manage the arena for $6 million to bring a bunch of concerts, trade shows, minor league sports, etc and someone else submits a $15 million bid with the Coyotes then Glendale can simply do the calculation to see if the Coyotes are worth an extra $9 million.
Would be nice if it were just that simple.... but you, I and everyone else knows it isn't.

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04-13-2013, 03:26 AM
  #421
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Would be nice if it were just that simple.... but you, I and everyone else knows it isn't.
Well, in fact, the calculation is pretty simple! A quick glance at the tax revenues generated over the years by the Coyotes 41 home games and p/o appearances yields little precious $$$ to the depleted city coffers. They are ostensibly paying the NHL, or prospective owner, for the right to lose money! That road has been traveled to the tune of $50MM over two years and look at the financial damage such dim witted policies have wrought on the city of Glendale! Please tell me what possible positive changes occur for the city by continuing down a road that has proven time and again to be the wrong one? The day that comes when the Council finally wakes up and recognizes that a major miscalculation was made the day they dug ground, will be the day that they begin the long road back to financial health. If no owner emerges w/o the expensive subsidy, then you have your answer, and it appears that will be the case! God give the Mayor the cajones to own up to the mistake and move on without the team!

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04-13-2013, 03:34 AM
  #422
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The final home game of the year is in 13 days, Friday the 26th of April vs. Colorado. One would hope that the Commissioner would have told the fans that this will be the last game played by the Coyotes at Jobing! This gives the fans the opportunity to say goodbye to the team that many diehard folks have stuck with through some pretty tough times. Let them have their going away party and if by some miracle the team remains, great, nothing lost! They can then hold an even better party celebrating the teams staying or returning. What are the chances the midget has the decency to do such a thing for the fans? Not good!!!

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04-13-2013, 03:59 AM
  #423
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The final home game of the year is in 13 days, Friday the 26th of April vs. Colorado. One would hope that the Commissioner would have told the fans that this will be the last game played by the Coyotes at Jobing! This gives the fans the opportunity to say goodbye to the team that many diehard folks have stuck with through some pretty tough times. Let them have their going away party and if by some miracle the team remains, great, nothing lost! They can then hold an even better party celebrating the teams staying or returning. What are the chances the midget has the decency to do such a thing for the fans? Not good!!!
Decency? That word isn't in Bettman's vocabulary.

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04-13-2013, 08:19 AM
  #424
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The final home game of the year is in 13 days, Friday the 26th of April vs. Colorado. One would hope that the Commissioner would have told the fans that this will be the last game played by the Coyotes at Jobing! This gives the fans the opportunity to say goodbye to the team that many diehard folks have stuck with through some pretty tough times. Let them have their going away party and if by some miracle the team remains, great, nothing lost! They can then hold an even better party celebrating the teams staying or returning. What are the chances the midget has the decency to do such a thing for the fans? Not good!!!
No matter what you guys shouldnt take a chance and party like if its the last game. Dont wait for Bettman. He doesnt give a ****.

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04-13-2013, 08:35 AM
  #425
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The COG has said they want an arena deal by May 24, but deadlines in government can be guidelines and not set in stone. But sometime around that date (give or take a week or two), they'll want the contract finalized. This deal is probably going to be inline with similar arena deals, which seems to generally be in the $5 million range. So let's figure that is around what the arena deal here will be. The remaining groups that want to purchase the team have said they will need more money to be viable. Figures of $10-12 million have been thrown around, so let's use those. If the arena deal is with another company, then Coyotes owners will want an additional $5-7 million. Would the COG be willing to meet that figure? Would the Coyotes owners need more money to be viable? How long would it take for these negotiations to take place? In addition, the Coyotes owners would also have to negotiate a lease with the new arena manager. How will that take to come to an agreement? This all makes it close to impossible that all this will be agreed to in the week between May 24 and May 31. Of course, the Coyotes owner can just decide to play the games back at US Airways Center. But a lot of these negotiations will also have to take place for that to happen, and in short order.
perhaps our legal wizards could help me here ... what legal and gwi-proof avenue would there be for the city to pay the team anything? my understanding is that the city has only been able to underwrite team operation losses (ie., a subsidy) by way of paying the team an inflated price to manage the arena.

i dont know how the team could possibly receive any money from the city unless it also manages the arena.

it would clearly be a gift, non?

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