HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The Business of Hockey
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, and NHL revenues.

Phoenix LXXIV: Be Seeing You

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
04-14-2013, 09:49 PM
  #476
Llama19
Registered User
 
Llama19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Outside GZ
Country: United States
Posts: 1,415
vCash: 1100
Quote:
Originally Posted by MNNumbers View Post
Back to the matter at hand....

What is there that could actually happen this week? Any Glendale City Council sessions? Does anyone know if the league has any action scheduled with any buyers?
"Glendale’s new arena consultants will begin to elicit proposals Monday [April 15] from outside companies to manage Jobing.com Arena."

Source: http://www.azcentral.com/community/g...ment-deal.html

The posting of the RFP should be here...

http://www.glendaleaz.com/purchasing...ortunities.cfm

Be seeing you!

Addendum:

Duh! RFP is under BEACON SPORTS CAPITAL PARTNERS, LLC (awarded on March 26) control and doesn't have to be 'publicly' disclosed.

Source: http://www.glendaleaz.com/Clerk/agen.../032613-21.pdf


Last edited by Llama19: 04-14-2013 at 10:30 PM. Reason: Added Addendum
Llama19 is offline  
Old
04-14-2013, 10:33 PM
  #477
enarwpg
Registered User
 
enarwpg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 446
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
September 2012: Wealthiest Arizona Residents

http://phoenix.about.com/cs/famous/a/wealthiest01.htm

Bruce Halle - net worth $4 billion
Bennett Dorrance - net worth $2 billion
Bob Parsons - net worth $1.5 billion
Peter Sperling - net worth $1.5 billion
Arturo Moreno - net worth $1.1 billion

Too bad none of these people that call Arizona home have any interest in the Coyotes.

And according to

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/n...eholds-in.html

Arizona had 117,843 millionaire households.

Lots of money in the state, just no interest in owning the team.
Lots of money in the state .....which the owners wish to hang on to.

It's easy for us worker bees to think that once you reach a certain level of wealth, that wealth just keeps growing. It takes work for it to do so
and buying in to an investment which has lost tens of millions each and every year over that last decade and a half is not how that wealth was achieved in the first place.

enarwpg is offline  
Old
04-15-2013, 12:08 AM
  #478
CasualFan
Tortious Beadicus
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bay Area, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 2,191
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MNNumbers View Post
Back to the matter at hand....

What is there that could actually happen this week? Any Glendale City Council sessions? Does anyone know if the league has any action scheduled with any buyers?
Tues at 9a Budget Workshop

- $9.5MM outlay from the General Fund for FY14 ($6.5MM for AMF/Capex and $3MM to pay back the interfund loans for the $25MM payments to the NHL).
- $21.3MM in MPC debt on the facilities, plus another $3.1MM for services at the facilities.

I imagine that may generate some conversation.

Fund #1282 (Page 145) shows the city is only budgeting $6MM for AMF in FY14. Potential owners seeking more than that from the city may be disappointed. The Budget Report indicates:

"According to the December 2012 Moody’s rating report for the city’s bonds, which resulted in a downgrade for all outstanding city bonds including water/sewer and transportation sales tax bonds, improvement in the city’s rating would rely on a “substantially improved operating performance including positive and sustainable GF reserves.” It also stated that downward adjustments in the city’s ratings could occur with “continued deterioration of the city’s financial position.”

I'm pretty sure the current council knows that they can't rebuild the General Fund reserve needed to keep Moodys from downgrading them again if they pay the Coyotes 4x more than the team generates. But, just in case they forgot:

"The March 27th presentation showed a fiscally unsustainable five-year forecast if no other reductions were implemented other than the $3.5M incorporated into the draft FY 2014 GF operating budget. This unsustainable five-year forecast clearly reflected an ongoing structural operating deficit because ongoing expenses exceeded ongoing revenues. As a result, the GF reserve would be a negative $6M by the end of FY 2015. That negative status would deteriorate to a negative $31.6M by the end of FY 2018, when the 0.7% temporary sales tax rate is scheduled to sunset"

The music is about to stop. Time to find out who has a chair...

CasualFan is offline  
Old
04-15-2013, 06:02 AM
  #479
Glacial
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 625
vCash: 500
What was the April date we were expecting to hear something by? And are we sure they meant April 2013 and not April 2103?

Glacial is offline  
Old
04-15-2013, 06:19 AM
  #480
Ugmo
Registered User
 
Ugmo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Country: Austria
Posts: 9,236
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glacial View Post
What was the April date we were expecting to hear something by? And are we sure they meant April 2013 and not April 2103?
This process is moving at an... ahem.... glacial pace, so to speak.

Ugmo is offline  
Old
04-15-2013, 07:28 AM
  #481
Acesolid
The Illusive Bettman
 
Acesolid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Québec
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,768
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ugmo View Post
This process is moving at an... ahem.... glacial pace, so to speak.
More importantly, it doesn't look like anything will get done by the (fast approaching) end of the season.

So it looks like ''that's all she wrote'' for the Coyotes if they dont make the playoffs....

Acesolid is offline  
Old
04-15-2013, 08:15 AM
  #482
Killion
Global Moderator
 
Killion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Morocco
Country: Morocco
Posts: 22,104
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acesolid View Post
So it looks like ''that's all she wrote'' for
the Coyotes if they dont make the playoffs....
I wouldnt bet on it Ace, odds are what; 50/50? The main principals & protagonists, the NHL & the City of Glendale havent been following any path's of logic, more a completely random and spontaneous series of rolls of the dice. Following this story & trying to guess what happens next is like entering some crazy labyrinth of a Casino, and like every good gambling joint you wont find any clocks on the walls, drinks are free, and though illegal, pretty sure that was Bettman, Jamison, and now Gosbee, Pastor and apparently two more high stakes players pumping oxygen into city hall.

Killion is offline  
Old
04-15-2013, 08:25 AM
  #483
Acesolid
The Illusive Bettman
 
Acesolid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Québec
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,768
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Killion View Post
I wouldnt bet on it Ace, odds are what; 50/50? The main principals & protagonists, the NHL & the City of Glendale havent been following any path's of logic, more a completely random and spontaneous series of rolls of the dice. Following this story & trying to guess what happens next is like entering some crazy labyrinth of a Casino, and like every good gambling joint you wont find any clocks on the walls, drinks are free, and though illegal, pretty sure that was Bettman, Jamison, and now Gosbee, Pastor and apparently two more high stakes players pumping oxygen into city hall.
Maybe, but if:

1. There's no press conference announcing that a ''sale'' is being prepared between the NHL and an onwership group made of..... say Jamison, Ice Edge, Bozo the Clown, John McCain and the cast of ''Dragon's den''.....

and

2. The information that was given to the NHL insiders in the media by the league bosses that a decision would be taken by the NHL before the start of the playoffs about the future of the team.

and

3. The Coyotes dont make the playoffs.


I dont see HOW in the world the NHL can keep holding on!

Acesolid is offline  
Old
04-15-2013, 08:33 AM
  #484
QcBlizzard
Regis-tered fan
 
QcBlizzard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Saguenay, Qc
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,793
vCash: 500
7 games left, they still can make the playoffs.

As long they are alive, nothing will happen. (Isnt it a bizarre sentence?)

QcBlizzard is offline  
Old
04-15-2013, 08:58 AM
  #485
cookymonster
Rookie User
 
cookymonster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Quebec City
Posts: 3
vCash: 500
and.....i did'nt see or hear anybody coming down on leopold for what he said last week....right? or did i miss somthing? so owners might have enough about the limbo in phoenix....

cookymonster is offline  
Old
04-15-2013, 09:02 AM
  #486
QcBlizzard
Regis-tered fan
 
QcBlizzard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Saguenay, Qc
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,793
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by cookymonster View Post
and.....i did'nt see or hear anybody coming down on leopold for what he said last week....right? or did i miss somthing? so owners might have enough about the limbo in phoenix....
Cooky, they settle their things in private.

QcBlizzard is offline  
Old
04-15-2013, 09:08 AM
  #487
Killion
Global Moderator
 
Killion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Morocco
Country: Morocco
Posts: 22,104
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acesolid View Post
I dont see HOW in the world the NHL can keep holding on!
I dont know. You tell me? If the NHL's the Casino Manager, seems to me they'd wanna know who these guys are, that they even have the werewithal & if so the honest intent to actually do something with the franchise where is as is understanding that the vaults in Glendale are empty beyond anything like, "normal" in terms of an AMC & Fee structure. Or do they just let this thing continue to unwind & unravel? Like Boots Del Biaggio & Len Barrie, who's Creditor Lists on their Bankruptcies included several Las Vegas Casino's, and no small change at that. Just continue to enable & extend credit with respect to time & money, wishfully thinking that everythings going to come up Trumps? This is just beyond stupid, where were at here. The very epitome' of incompetence, arrogance & entitlement. Complete lack of flexibility, even common sense being exercised by this league. Its just stunning.

Killion is offline  
Old
04-15-2013, 09:14 AM
  #488
Killion
Global Moderator
 
Killion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Morocco
Country: Morocco
Posts: 22,104
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by cookymonster View Post
and.....i did'nt see or hear anybody coming down on leopold for what he said last week....right? or did i miss somthing? so owners might have enough about the limbo in phoenix....
Welcome to hf cookymonster...

Quote:
Originally Posted by QcBlizzard View Post
Cooky, they settle their things in private.
.... and he does have a point Qc. That there was no public refutation or denial from Gary Bettman or Bill Daly, that Craig Leipold was talking out of turn & speaking nonsense as they'd normally do whenever an owner makes comments contrary to whatever message they wish to convey.

Killion is offline  
Old
04-15-2013, 09:22 AM
  #489
Ugmo
Registered User
 
Ugmo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Country: Austria
Posts: 9,236
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Killion View Post
... and he does have a point Qc. That there was no public refutation or denial from Gary Bettman or Bill Daly, that Craig Leipold was talking out of turn & speaking nonsense as they'd normally do whenever an owner makes comments contrary to whatever message they wish to convey.
Does the NHL publicly refute billionaires who are already a member of the club, or just those who are hoping to be in the future?

Ugmo is offline  
Old
04-15-2013, 09:29 AM
  #490
QcBlizzard
Regis-tered fan
 
QcBlizzard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Saguenay, Qc
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,793
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Killion View Post
Welcome to hf cookymonster...



.... and he does have a point Qc. That there was no public refutation or denial from Gary Bettman or Bill Daly, that Craig Leipold was talking out of turn & speaking nonsense as they'd normally do whenever an owner makes comments contrary to whatever message they wish to convey.
Well, I dont recall many pro sports league saying to one of their governors to "shut up" in the press.

I am not sure I am buying this "hypothèse" ;-) Sri, cannot remember the word in english.

QcBlizzard is offline  
Old
04-15-2013, 09:36 AM
  #491
mesamonster
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Scottsdale, AZ.
Country: United States
Posts: 1,043
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by cookymonster View Post
and.....i did'nt see or hear anybody coming down on leopold for what he said last week....right? or did i miss somthing? so owners might have enough about the limbo in phoenix....
Leipold may have his detractors, but he is still one of 29 owners and sitting on the committees that might well have a lot to say about the fate of the Coyote franchise! His quote was either an ill timed slip of the tongue or a well orchestrated introduction to the fat lady chewing throat lozenges.

11 days remain until the Coyotes final regular season game, po`s are still possible but with each passing day becoming less of a reality! Does the midget have any compassion for the fans who have stuck with this team through it all? Will he give them the opportunity to say goodbye?

Not a word out of GB regarding the flowery purchase proposals presented to him by the new impostors! Mayor Weiers, has said in so many words that the short conversations with the proposed suitors has been nothing short of pathetic. Sad, how this situation is going to end with moving vans rolling out of Glendale in the middle of the night. Will Joyce be there waving goodbye or will she be tweeting of their eventual return? Only the midget knows!!!

mesamonster is offline  
Old
04-15-2013, 09:56 AM
  #492
Whileee
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 8,568
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Killion View Post
I wouldnt bet on it Ace, odds are what; 50/50? The main principals & protagonists, the NHL & the City of Glendale havent been following any path's of logic, more a completely random and spontaneous series of rolls of the dice. Following this story & trying to guess what happens next is like entering some crazy labyrinth of a Casino, and like every good gambling joint you wont find any clocks on the walls, drinks are free, and though illegal, pretty sure that was Bettman, Jamison, and now Gosbee, Pastor and apparently two more high stakes players pumping oxygen into city hall.
I think that CF's post above is most relevant. The financial realities in Glendale are pretty grim, and as much as they might want to keep the Coyotes, they simply cannot afford to offer a disproportionately large AMF without completely decimating their budget and financial position going forward.

Does it seem realistic that there will be any bona fide ownership bid that doesn't include a very large AMF-based subsidy? We certainly don't have any evidence for that.

Their best chance for a local sale seemed to be Jamison, except that he never had the investors lined up that he had promised.

Whileee is offline  
Old
04-15-2013, 10:00 AM
  #493
Killion
Global Moderator
 
Killion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Morocco
Country: Morocco
Posts: 22,104
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ugmo View Post
Does the NHL publicly refute billionaires who are already a member of the club, or just those who are hoping to be in the future?
Oh ya, absolutely. Theres a fairly recent book, came out last spring/summer called Instigator; How Gary Bettman Remade the League & Changed the Game Forever by Jonathan Gatehouse. It goes into great detail with examples as to just how much he does in fact control not only the message but so too the medium itself. Owners who step out of line, say dumb stuff or speak out of turn are generally dealt with rather harshly both directly by himself & through peer rebuke by others on the BOG's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by QcBlizzard View Post
Well, I dont recall many pro sports league saying to one of their governors to "shut up" in the press.
Your english is just fine, the hypothesis, the practice of public denials by the NHL when an owner says something indiscreet to the media can either be refuted directly or through more subtle means. That neither Bettman nor anyone else connected with the NHL has in fact contradicted Leipold, taken the bite out of or softened the edges of what he said last week is not to be ignored.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mesamonster View Post
Leipold may have his detractors, but he is still one of 29 owners and sitting on the committees that might well have a lot to say about the fate of the Coyote franchise! His quote was either an ill timed slip of the tongue or a well orchestrated introduction to the fat lady...
Pretty much. Im no fan of this guy, but that doesnt matter, moot, he said what he said. Drew a picture. No one's denied it. Discounting or ignoring its not an option if you hope to remain objective in trying to figure out just what the Sam Hill Bettman might be up to, because he sure aint talkin & he damn well should be at this stage in the game. Thing is, he's so completely dispassionate, doesnt even think that "hey, maybe the people of Glendale & Arizona, Nealey, Maloney & Tippett, the players & off-ice personnel could use an update, some comfort, information". Just doesnt operate like that.

Killion is offline  
Old
04-15-2013, 10:31 AM
  #494
Whileee
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 8,568
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Killion View Post
Your english is just fine, the hypothesis, the practice of public denials by the NHL when an owner says something indiscreet to the media can either be refuted directly or through more subtle means. That neither Bettman nor anyone else connected with the NHL has in fact contradicted Leipold, taken the bite out of or softened the edges of what he said last week is not to be ignored.

Pretty much. Im no fan of this guy, but that doesnt matter, moot, he said what he said. Drew a picture. No one's denied it. Discounting or ignoring its not an option if you hope to remain objective in trying to figure out just what the Sam Hill Bettman might be up to, because he sure aint talkin & he damn well should be at this stage in the game. Thing is, he's so completely dispassionate, doesnt even think that "hey, maybe the people of Glendale & Arizona, Nealey, Maloney & Tippett, the players & off-ice personnel could use an update, some comfort, information". Just doesnt operate like that.
I think that most of us realize that realities of the situation, regardless of what Bettman or others connected to the NHL say publicly. Attracting a bona fide ownership candidate will likely take more than the COG offered to Jamison, since even he couldn't get the deal done. His deal with the COG was already less lucrative than previous failed bids over the preceding few years.

The only hope seems to be a complete change of heart by the NHL (to slash the price to a very attractive level), or some sort of sweetening of the pot with the option of relocation or resale in a few years. Bettman's statements about an unprecedented level of interest in purchasing the team doesn't alter those basic facts.

The COG doesn't really have any financial wiggle room, which is likely the most important factor in all of this.

Whileee is offline  
Old
04-15-2013, 10:37 AM
  #495
barneyg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,234
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by madhi19 View Post
I think they could not file until Jamison closed the deal. He never closed so they never had to.
We were talking about the $25M AMF to the NHL, whether Jamison closed is irrelevant for those.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLegend View Post
The $25M came from funds that get around the gift clause.

With the Jamison AMF, IIRC... Glendale used data from two other arenas to prop up their position that the annual costs of the AMF were closely in line.

AZ Gift Law more or less that cities can have contracts with private enterprises so long as the return is not disproportional to the amount spent.

I would imagine GWI could have mounted a challenge to both, but they chose not to. I guess it would be because they didn't see getting any value (donations to their cause) out of it.

(EDIT: Posted this before seeing CF addressed it.)
I don't disagree with your conclusion regarding GWI but I don't understand the first sentence at all. Can you explain it?

barneyg is offline  
Old
04-15-2013, 10:38 AM
  #496
gifted88
Dante the poet
 
gifted88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Guelph, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,344
vCash: 500
Is there anything indicating Bettman and the NHL aren't willing to own this team past this season?

gifted88 is offline  
Old
04-15-2013, 10:38 AM
  #497
QcBlizzard
Regis-tered fan
 
QcBlizzard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Saguenay, Qc
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,793
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Killion View Post
Your english is just fine, the hypothesis, the practice of public denials by the NHL when an owner says something indiscreet to the media can either be refuted directly or through more subtle means. That neither Bettman nor anyone else connected with the NHL has in fact contradicted Leipold, taken the bite out of or softened the edges of what he said last week is not to be ignored.
My guess (its only a guess) is he decided to do it in private to not attrack attention.

But, as usual, I keep in mind your words. A debate always brings better lighting.

QcBlizzard is offline  
Old
04-15-2013, 11:10 AM
  #498
Killion
Global Moderator
 
Killion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Morocco
Country: Morocco
Posts: 22,104
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by QcBlizzard View Post
..A debate always brings better lighting.
...... attendre la poule pour pouvoir dejeuner le matin;
though starving, we must wait for the chicken to lay an egg.
Old Quebecois Saying

Killion is offline  
Old
04-15-2013, 12:05 PM
  #499
cbcwpg
Registered User
 
cbcwpg's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Between the Pipes
Country: United Nations
Posts: 5,928
vCash: 350
Quote:
Originally Posted by gifted88 View Post
Is there anything indicating Bettman and the NHL aren't willing to own this team past this season?
There have been hints that they are not willing, but we won't know until we know. I could still see it being a possibility that the NHL decides to go all in for one more season and keep owning and running the team, BUT they would have to do so without the CoG anteing up another $25M. That we know will not be happening.

Not to distract from those in Seattle or QC that think they will be getting a team, but at this time the NHL may just not want to put a team in either ( or any other ) place. And yes I have heard all the arguments how a team "could" play in either city in temporary facilities, yada, yada.... but, if you are honest about it, neither city is an ideal situation right now. So even if the NHL is open to locating a team in either place, they just may think it not a good time to move yet.

Now, if the NHL does decide to go for one more year in Glendale out of their own pocket, for the sole purpose of just buying time until Seattle or QC is "ideal", then they sure better be upfront and tell the people watching the Coyotes this is the case. Somehow I doubt they would do that. You will hear " we are still looking for local ownership ".


Last edited by cbcwpg: 04-15-2013 at 12:17 PM.
cbcwpg is offline  
Old
04-15-2013, 12:43 PM
  #500
King_Stannis
Registered User
 
King_Stannis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Country: United States
Posts: 712
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
There have been hints that they are not willing, but we won't know until we know. I could still see it being a possibility that the NHL decides to go all in for one more season and keep owning and running the team, BUT they would have to do so without the CoG anteing up another $25M. That we know will not be happening.

Not to distract from those in Seattle or QC that think they will be getting a team, but at this time the NHL may just not want to put a team in either ( or any other ) place. And yes I have heard all the arguments how a team "could" play in either city in temporary facilities, yada, yada.... but, if you are honest about it, neither city is an ideal situation right now. So even if the NHL is open to locating a team in either place, they just may think it not a good time to move yet.

Now, if the NHL does decide to go for one more year in Glendale out of their own pocket, for the sole purpose of just buying time until Seattle or QC is "ideal", then they sure better be upfront and tell the people watching the Coyotes this is the case. Somehow I doubt they would do that. You will hear " we are still looking for local ownership ".
No situation is ever ideal, but in QC’s case you’d have a sold out, 17,000 Colisee’ arena every single night until the new arena is ready. I hardly think any one of those people would complain about anything at all in regards to creature comforts. So really the only thing that would need to be done there is to jazz up the player dressing rooms and make sure the ice surface is ideal during the transition period. That’s a $3-5 million dollar job probably.

That’s as close to ideal as anything you’ll see in a sentence that contains the word “Phoenix Coyotes” in the past 4 years.

King_Stannis is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:05 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.