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The Luongo Thread - OMG Guyz Schneider is Hurt - MOD WARNING IN OP

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04-06-2013, 08:41 PM
  #151
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Originally Posted by Canucker View Post
Was hoping something could get done to move Luongo and get a few pieces in here to help us, but I think Gillis was outplayed this time around. I don't believe there were 4-5 teams that were seriously interested...I think he was trying to fabricate some leverage with Toronto who didn't bite. Nonis knew he was in control of the situation because he was under no pressure to acquire Luongo.

I feel for Lu, but if the rumors are true of him nixing deals earlier on then he's partially responsible for his predicament.
Schnieder was told when he signed his deal that he will likely be traded. Loungo was told by an insider in Florida that he could get traded there. That is not the case anymore so its time to go back to plan A and trade Schnieder.

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04-06-2013, 08:44 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by Szechwan View Post
BUYOUTS
During the ordinary course buyout periods in June 2013 and June 2014, teams will be permitted two compliance buyouts. Compliance buyouts follow the same formula as ordinary-course buyouts but do not count against the cap.

Which is all that actually matters in this market.
source: http://www.capgeek.com/new-cba/

I AM DEAD SERIOUS ABOUT THIS IDEA. LOOK HOW SERIOUS MY ORIGINAL POST WAS
Umm How about we just trade Schnieder instead ? He has no NTC..

Loungo would rather play here unless it is one of the Florida teams.

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04-06-2013, 08:44 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by Hal 9000 View Post
Why can't you accept that Luongo committed to this team by signing a deal that would have him finish his career as a Canuck, helped out Gillis by circumventing the cap and now after shouldering 90% of the blame for the SCF's and getting told he's no longer wanted here, he agrees to help out Gillis again by agreeing to a trade (which never comes because Gillis wants his value) - and you people make him out as the guy turning his back on the team. Give your head a shake dude, Luongo is all class here.

I bet you're one of those that feels bad for poor old Pavel and how bad he was treated though.
Guess what....things change. I'm not saying that he "turned his back on the team", and I'm not saying he's not "all class". I'm saying he's had enough of playing in Vancouver and wants out. You think he was "run out", I'm saying he wasn't happy losing his job to Schneider and instead of saying to Gillis "No, I'm not going to be traded right now, I signed here long term and I intend on staying here long term.", he said "it might be time for me to move on."

Bure was treated like crap, but I'd rather lose brain cells hammering my head against a wall than arguing with you about it.

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Originally Posted by Dado View Post
Gillis doesn't want to trade Schneider - he wants to trade Luongo. That's what started this whole process in the first place. Gillis already has the ability to waive Luongo anytime he wants, regardless of what Luongo wants. Gillis also already has the ability to buy out Luongo, regardless of what Luongo wants.

What's making this difficult is Gillis started the trade-Luongo process under the beilef he could get a good return, and has stuck to that belief.

This disastrous soap opera didn't start with Luongo's post-playoff interview - it started in Game 4 when Gillis & AV decided Schneider really was their guy.

EDIT: Yes, Hal, this organization treated Bure like crap.
I understand what Gillis wants, but I'm sure he wants all sorts of things that he can't have. I also understand that Gillis can waive/buyout Luongo but that's not the point I was making...Luongo has a say in what happens, and if he refuses to be traded it might not be something Gillis wants, but its an easier situation to conclude than trying to get value in a trade in this market.

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04-06-2013, 08:52 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by Finkle is Einhorn View Post
Not sure how legit it is, but Paul Chapman is saying that Mike Smith is reportedly looking for $7 million x 8 years in free agency, taking him to 39. Just because there will be more goaltenders on the market doesn't mean Luongo will be undesirable in comparison.

I think GM's are smart enough to see that Dave Tippet makes average goalies better. Look at Bryzgalov.

Mike Smith will get 4 to 4.5 million tops. He couldn't even keep the starters job in Tampa.

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04-06-2013, 08:52 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by Goldrunner View Post
Schnieder was told when he signed his deal that he will likely be traded. Loungo was told by an insider in Florida that he could get traded there. That is not the case anymore so its time to go back to plan A and trade Schnieder.
Links? Otherwise I call BS.

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04-06-2013, 08:52 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by Canucker View Post
Luongo has a say in what happens, and if he refuses to be traded it might not be something Gillis wants, but its an easier situation to conclude than trying to get value in a trade in this market.
Sure, if Luongo goes all intransigentally Heatley, it makes it easier for Gillis to say "**** it" and send him to the firing squad.

But credit to Luongo for not being that guy.

 
Old
04-06-2013, 08:57 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by Dado View Post
Sure, if Luongo goes all intransigentally Heatley, it makes it easier for Gillis to say "**** it" and send him to the firing squad.

But credit to Luongo for not being that guy.
He doesn't have to go all "Heatley", he could have just told Gillis privately that he's not interested in moving, he signed long term and wants to stay long term. It limits Gillis' options therefore making it a more simple task to deal with the situation.

But I do agree...Luongo has shown a lot of patience and class with this matter, but if he denied Gillis trading him earlier on because he didn't want to go to TO (or wherever) then he's partially to blame that he's still in Vancouver and sitting on the bench.

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04-06-2013, 09:10 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by opendoor View Post
The Canucks would be trying to move Luongo regardless of what kind of contract he had. He's been replaced.
Not true.

Schnieder was expected to be traded and he has a shorter term deal with no NTC. But Loungo thought he could go to Florida so he took the opportunity to leave only because Schnieder could do his job.

A lot has changed since then. Loungo cant go to Florida anymore and his contract is not very marketable.

I think Schnieders contract was written specifically for maximum trade value.

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04-06-2013, 09:12 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by Canucker View Post
He doesn't have to go all "Heatley", he could have just told Gillis privately that he's not interested in moving, he signed long term and wants to stay long term. It limits Gillis' options therefore making it a more simple task to deal with the situation.

But I do agree...Luongo has shown a lot of patience and class with this matter, but if he denied Gillis trading him earlier on because he didn't want to go to TO (or wherever) then he's partially to blame that he's still in Vancouver and sitting on the bench.
Only a sociopath would say "screw you, I'm staying", when he is being told he's not wanted.

Yeah, I was bothered that Gillis wanted to trade him, but now I'm even more pissed that Gillis doesn't have the decency to just get it done without embarrassing the guy.

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04-06-2013, 09:17 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by Hal 9000 View Post
Only a sociopath would say "screw you, I'm staying", when he is being told he's not wanted.

Yeah, I was bothered that Gillis wanted to trade him, but now I'm even more pissed that Gillis doesn't have the decency to just get it done without embarrassing the guy.


Yes, I'm sure it would have gone down exactly like that.

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04-06-2013, 09:31 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by Canucker View Post
He doesn't have to go all "Heatley", he could have just told Gillis privately that he's not interested in moving, he signed long term and wants to stay long term.
Right. That's a headline that reads "Luongo refuses to waive No Trade Clause".

Unless our GM is incompetent, there's no good reason for us to want Luongo to limit the team's options.

 
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04-06-2013, 09:32 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by Goldrunner View Post
Schnieder was expected to be traded and he has a shorter term deal with no NTC. But Loungo thought he could go to Florida so he took the opportunity to leave only because Schnieder could do his job.
Do you have a source for that?

 
Old
04-06-2013, 09:44 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by Dado View Post
Right. That's a headline that reads "Luongo refuses to waive No Trade Clause".

Unless our GM is incompetent, there's no good reason for us to want Luongo to limit the team's options.
If it was a private discussion why would it automatically become a headline?

I'm not sure how your second sentence applies to anything I've said.

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04-06-2013, 10:32 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by Goldrunner View Post
Not true.

Schnieder was expected to be traded and he has a shorter term deal with no NTC. But Loungo thought he could go to Florida so he took the opportunity to leave only because Schnieder could do his job.

A lot has changed since then. Loungo cant go to Florida anymore and his contract is not very marketable.

I think Schnieders contract was written specifically for maximum trade value.
Schnieder's contract seemed suspiciously portable when he signed it.

How bad would it be moving forward with Luongo? Schnieder still can be moved. If they hope to showcase him in the playoffs they should have been busier on the waiver watch, but that's whatever. If he plays well, his return could be used to restart the franchise.

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04-06-2013, 10:58 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by JuniorNelson View Post
Schnieder's contract seemed suspiciously portable when he signed it.

How bad would it be moving forward with Luongo? Schnieder still can be moved. If they hope to showcase him in the playoffs they should have been busier on the waiver watch, but that's whatever. If he plays well, his return could be used to restart the franchise.
This is wish full thinking.

Exactly how much do some fans think Schneider is going to bring back when the Canucks are up against the Cap?

Never mind the supply and demand, teams will look at guys like Bernier instead of paying a ransom for either Canuck Goalie.

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04-06-2013, 11:41 PM
  #166
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Originally Posted by Dado View Post
Do you have a source for that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldrunner View Post
Schnieder was told when he signed his deal that he will likely be traded. Loungo was told by an insider in Florida that he could get traded there. That is not the case anymore so its time to go back to plan A and trade Schnieder
.

Quote:
Links? Otherwise I call BS.
Brian Lawton on Bob Mccowen's show April 3rd 6pm

http://tunein.com/topic/?TopicId=45858097

Lawton:

"My firm used to represent Cory Schnieder, I am very close to the agents that negotiated that deal. None of this comes as a surprise to them. This has been talked about before he executed his contract. Because they signed it and went straight to Cory and said Oh Cory by the way, you are probably going to get traded with this deal. Cory said, thats fine. I understand that, if thats what it is, thats what it is. I love Vancouver, I want to stay in Vancouver but I can live with it. Agents said if Cory wants to be here, we have to re-think our strategy. Schnieder said I hope I stay here, I want to play here but whatever happens happens.

I know he said something about Loungo having inside knowledge that he could go back to Florida too but I cant find it.

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04-06-2013, 11:47 PM
  #167
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Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 View Post
This is wish full thinking.

Exactly how much do some fans think Schneider is going to bring back when the Canucks are up against the Cap?

Never mind the supply and demand, teams will look at guys like Bernier instead of paying a ransom for either Canuck Goalie.
Don't let Loungos trade attempts recently cloud your vision.

Loungo and Schnieders deals are polar opposites. One is designed to be traded, the other is designed to stay put.

That considered, Schnieder could demand a good trade in return. Schnieder is way more proven then a guy like Bernier.

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04-06-2013, 11:52 PM
  #168
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Originally Posted by Canucker View Post
He doesn't have to go all "Heatley", he could have just told Gillis privately that he's not interested in moving, he signed long term and wants to stay long term. It limits Gillis' options therefore making it a more simple task to deal with the situation. . .
I think this is Luongo's best option, which really amounts to nothing more than honouring his contract. It's the very same thing Mats Sundin did in his last year with the Leafs. No one could fault Sundin or Luongo for doing merely what each of them contracted to do.

If Canucks management no longer wants to honour Loungo's contract on their end, they do have options: (i) put him on waivers; and (ii) if no other club claims him, buy him out. It's available and it's their choice.

I don't think waiving him and sending him to the minors is a viable choice for the Canucks. Unlike Redden, Sourais and others whose contracts were taken out of the cap when they were sent down, Luongo's contract would continue to count against the cap for the Canucks under the new CBA. Burying that much salary in the minors is probably not viable given their imminent need for cap room.

Maybe they'll just choose to play him instead.


Last edited by Mork: 04-06-2013 at 11:58 PM.
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04-06-2013, 11:56 PM
  #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldrunner View Post
.



Brian Lawton on Bob Mccowen's show April 3rd 6pm

http://tunein.com/topic/?TopicId=45858097

Lawton:

"My firm used to represent Cory Schnieder, I am very close to the agents that negotiated that deal. None of this comes as a surprise to them. This has been talked about before he executed his contract. Because they signed it and went straight to Cory and said Oh Cory by the way, you are probably going to get traded with this deal. Cory said, thats fine. I understand that, if thats what it is, thats what it is. I love Vancouver, I want to stay in Vancouver but I can live with it. Agents said if Cory wants to be here, we have to re-think our strategy. Schnieder said I hope I stay here, I want to play here but whatever happens happens.

I know he said something about Loungo having inside knowledge that he could go back to Florida too but I cant find it.
I listened to this interview on the way home from work the other day, and I was very surprised by how candid Lawton was on this and several other matters. I was frankly surprised that he breached confidences, if the inside information he purported to have is true.

It's a matter of opinion, but I rather believe he is telling the truth.

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04-06-2013, 11:58 PM
  #170
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Originally Posted by Goldrunner View Post
.
Brian Lawton on Bob Mccowen's show April 3rd 6pm
Well **** me with an unsanded two by four.

Sounds like Gillis has been playing both goalies.

 
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04-07-2013, 12:12 AM
  #171
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Originally Posted by Goldrunner View Post
Don't let Loungos trade attempts recently cloud your vision.

Loungo and Schnieders deals are polar opposites. One is designed to be traded, the other is designed to stay put.

That considered, Schnieder could demand a good trade in return. Schnieder is way more proven then a guy like Bernier.
Humour me which team needs a goalie and what would they give ballpark to get Schneider then?

Mike Smith is out there as is Bernier and possibly Ryan Miller as well.

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04-07-2013, 12:29 AM
  #172
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Amnesty buyouts are new. The rules as written and so far know do not outlaw these types of things. Personally I think that is on the NHL, but nothing in the rules I've seen excludes sending a player to another team to be bought out in exchange for assets.

The league created this option, it's not even a loophole, it is an option. Personally I think it should have been you can only amnesty buyout players on your team at the time of the CBA starting, but the league opened it to buying out any players from any other team as well and they did this on purpose. They aren't stupid they knew this was an option they choose to leave available. Why, I don't know - maybe so rich team could help/exploit weak teams, shrug

If Tampa bought out Luongo and Vancouver bought out Lecavalier I don't think the league would intervene. Even if Lecavalier then resigned cheapishly in Tampa I doubt they would intervene. It'd probably both Luongo resigning cheaply in Van and Lecavalier resigning cheaply in Tampa before the league would be motivated to act.
I've had an open mind to this idea, me2, but having thought about it I don't think it can work. Too many moving parts. If by some miracle it did work (i.e.: everybody lands up in the right place), I don't think the league would allow it.

In terms of CBA circumvention, it would be the sequel to New Jersey's first contract with Kovalchuk. I forget the details of whether the contract was not approved or just what happened, but for some reason the original deal didn't go through and this wouldn't either. I think the league would just refuse to approve the new contracts, and I understand it has authority to do that.

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04-07-2013, 12:49 AM
  #173
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Originally Posted by Dado View Post
Well **** me with an unsanded two by four.

Sounds like Gillis has been playing both goalies.
What do you mean by that ?

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04-07-2013, 01:01 AM
  #174
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Humour me which team needs a goalie and what would they give ballpark to get Schneider then?

Mike Smith is out there as is Bernier and possibly Ryan Miller as well.
Nick Backstrom in Minnesota is a free agent next year. He is 35 years old. Minni will be looking for a good goalie. They wont cheap out. I doubt they would be dumb enough to sign the over rated Mike Smith from Phoenix or the big question mark in Ryan Miller.

You mention Bernier.. How much playoff experience does he have ?

And are you make it sound like nobody is spending money in the goal position anymore. Jonanthan Quick just signed a 6 million dollar deal and Pekka Renni got a 7 million dollar deal.

New Jersey will be looking for a solid goaltender at some point soon. They aren't the ones to cheap out either.

Out of all of the goalies available, Schnieder is the most desirable one.

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04-07-2013, 01:16 AM
  #175
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What would a team give up for Schneider though? I'd only trade him if it would help us get a young top player or a grade A prospect.

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