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2013 NHL Entry Draft Talk II

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Old
05-18-2013, 05:12 PM
  #776
me2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Here are some random other teams' players drafted outside the 1st round since 2008 that are now NHL regulars:

Ottawa: Patrick Wiercioch, Zach Smith, Jakob Silfverberg, Robin Lehner, Jean-Gabriel Pageau

Nashville: Roman Josi, Anders Lindback, Gabriel Bourque, Craig Smith

Chicago: Marcus Kruger, Brandon Pirri, Andrew Shaw, Brandon Saad

Dallas: Philip Larsen, Tomas Vincour, Reilly Smith, Alex Chiasson

Colorado: Mark Olver, Tyson Barrie, Stefan Elliott, Ryan O'Reilly

Los Angeles: Andrei Loktionov, Slava Voynov, Jordan Nolan, Kyle Clifford, Tyler Toffoli

Vancouver: Corrado(?)

I have zero confidence in Gillis' drafting outside the 1st round. Obviously we might end up with some decent players when all's said and done, but relative to other teams, we suck at drafting outside the 1st round.
Redo that list at with the cutoff at 50 or 55 instead of 30.

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05-18-2013, 05:14 PM
  #777
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Originally Posted by me2 View Post
Redo that list at with the cutoff at 50 or 55 instead of 30.
I would add to that ignoring 2008 considering Gillis had exactly zero input from 2nd round and on.

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05-18-2013, 05:19 PM
  #778
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
Detroit has zero NHL regulars drafted outside of the 1st round since 2008 (Nyquist might finally be one, 5 years later). Do you have zero faith in their drafting outside of the 1st round?

There's guys drafted outside of the 1st round that are progressing as prospects: Price, Cannata, Andersson, Blomstrand and more. Prospects in later rounds take time.

Not to mention the fact that half the guys you mentioned were drafting in early 2nd round before the Canucks ever got around to picking. Are we the best drafting team in the league? Clearly not. But I'm quite honestly getting tired of the hyperbole.
I think Detroit's drafting is overrated these days. Although at least they have a track record of letting prospects develop for ages before bringing them in. It's still better than ours.

And sure we have lots of guys progressing, every team in the league has those guys. Detroit has Tatar, Jarnkok, Mrazek, Jurco, Ouellet, Sproul, etc. Ottawa has Prince, Puempel, Stone, etc on top of their NHLers. Some of our guys may make the NHL. Some of their guys might make the NHL. But until they're actually playing in the NHL, there's no comparison.

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05-18-2013, 05:35 PM
  #779
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Originally Posted by me2 View Post
Redo that list at with the cutoff at 50 or 55 instead of 30.
How about I make it 20 or 25. Then we can add Schroeder as well. Still well below parr, despite that skewing it heavily towards us as well.

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05-18-2013, 06:02 PM
  #780
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Here are some random other teams' players drafted outside the 1st round since 2008 that are now NHL regulars:

Ottawa: Patrick Wiercioch, Zach Smith, Jakob Silfverberg, Robin Lehner, Jean-Gabriel Pageau

Nashville: Roman Josi, Anders Lindback, Gabriel Bourque, Craig Smith

Chicago: Marcus Kruger, Brandon Pirri, Andrew Shaw, Brandon Saad

Dallas: Philip Larsen, Tomas Vincour, Reilly Smith, Alex Chiasson

Colorado: Mark Olver, Tyson Barrie, Stefan Elliott, Ryan O'Reilly

Los Angeles: Andrei Loktionov, Slava Voynov, Jordan Nolan, Kyle Clifford, Tyler Toffoli

Vancouver: Corrado(?)

I have zero confidence in Gillis' drafting outside the 1st round. Obviously we might end up with some decent players when all's said and done, but relative to other teams, we suck at drafting outside the 1st round.
No offense but its hard to take your view point serious when you're naming guys as regulars who just aren't.

Wiercoch is not a regular. He was an injury replacement.

Karlsson gets healthy. Wiercoch isn't on the team.

Pageau has 16 NHL games.

Barrie and Elliott aren't regulars. Both up and down all season between AHl and NHL.

Craig Smith got demoted back to the AHL this year and Anders lindback lost a job already.

Ill be the first to ***** about the drafting, but overrating the drafts of others doesn't help either.

IMO if we were crap like Dallas too, we'd be able to ice marginal NHLers early too.

Looks like that's where we're transitioning anyhow.

I think we'll see more draft picks get looks starting this year and when we find guys like Tanev and lack not in the draft it looks even better.

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05-18-2013, 06:37 PM
  #781
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Too bad Halifax has last change. They'll be hiding Drouin and mackinnon from jones and wotherspoon all night.

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05-18-2013, 06:40 PM
  #782
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
No offense but its hard to take your view point serious when you're naming guys as regulars who just aren't.

Wiercoch is not a regular. He was an injury replacement.

Karlsson gets healthy. Wiercoch isn't on the team.

Pageau has 16 NHL games.

Barrie and Elliott aren't regulars. Both up and down all season between AHl and NHL.

Craig Smith got demoted back to the AHL this year and Anders lindback lost a job already.

Ill be the first to ***** about the drafting, but overrating the drafts of others doesn't help either.

IMO if we were crap like Dallas too, we'd be able to ice marginal NHLers early too.

Looks like that's where we're transitioning anyhow.

I think we'll see more draft picks get looks starting this year and when we find guys like Tanev and lack not in the draft it looks even better.
They're all as regular NHLers as Corrado is. If we're not counting him, then our total is completely zero, which is obviously ridiculous. And I know Gillis is good at signing players. I said I have zero confidence in Gillis' drafting outside the 1st round, and his track record so far has nothing to show for it after 4 years of drafting.

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05-18-2013, 06:40 PM
  #783
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I think that if Petan falls to us, it would be a mistake not to take him. He has been the best player on the ice so far in the Halifax/Portland game. He has been creating chances every time he's been on the ice so far. Really shifty skater with great hands.

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05-18-2013, 07:07 PM
  #784
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i wish we can get Domi if we were to draft a centerman in the smallish side.

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05-18-2013, 07:44 PM
  #785
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Sooo much skill in this game! It's unbelievable how good these kids are.

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05-18-2013, 07:51 PM
  #786
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All the big guns came to play tonight


Last edited by Pip: 05-18-2013 at 07:58 PM.
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05-18-2013, 07:56 PM
  #787
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Originally Posted by clay View Post
I think that if Petan falls to us, it would be a mistake not to take him. He has been the best player on the ice so far in the Halifax/Portland game. He has been creating chances every time he's been on the ice so far. Really shifty skater with great hands.
Have to agree with you here. Petan reminds me a lot of Patrick Kane, very shifty, fast, and a real nose for the net. I was extremely impressed with him in the one game I watched him play in Kelowna this year. Simply dominated the game. He may be small but he plays big, after all Kane is not exactly a heavyweight is he yet I would take him in a heartbeat for the Nucks. Gillis simply has to give him serious consideration if he is available at pick 24.

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05-18-2013, 08:35 PM
  #788
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Carruth has looked downright awful. How is he still in this game?

MacKinnon looks dominant. Shame he will be going to the sunshine state.

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05-18-2013, 08:52 PM
  #789
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Carruth has looked downright awful. How is he still in this game?

MacKinnon looks dominant. Shame he will be going to the sunshine state.
Carruth ruined a good game.

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05-19-2013, 12:07 PM
  #790
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Sooo much skill in this game! It's unbelievable how good these kids are.
Man alive that's entertaining hockey. The more I watched it, the more I wanted to kick Bettman in the balls for ruining the NHL.

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05-19-2013, 08:30 PM
  #791
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
I like Zykov a lot, but would Gillis ever draft a Russian?
I'd say there's a 0% chance of that. He's the only GM who's never drafted a Russian player - for whatever reason.

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05-19-2013, 09:45 PM
  #792
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I'd say there's a 0% chance of that. He's the only GM who's never drafted a Russian player - for whatever reason.
He doesn't exactly have a huge sample size when it comes to drafting.

Most of us are willing to give him credit for the 1st round in 2008 and that is all. So this draft will be his 5th draft.

One other thing to mention is the Canucks have had the least amount of picks since Gillis has been here.

When you only have a few, you usually don't go to russia.

Only the very elite Russians ever come over and stay over.

Kuznetsov still might not show up.

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05-19-2013, 10:47 PM
  #793
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Just catching up on RLR and i have never read such a scathing review from Woodlief. Not trying to bring Mantha down.

Quote:
FALLING

Anthony Mantha: Will never be accused of playing with too much intensity… or heart… or effort for that matter.

-A couple of observations from the early stages of the Quebec League playoffs. First off, let us begin by saying that Val-d'Or winger Anthony Mantha is a first-round talent - no question. However, if we were drafting, say… 24th overall and Mantha was the highest rated player left on our board when it came time to make the pick? Well, let's just say we would somehow manage to find someone else we liked just a little bit better.

Honestly, does this guy even have a pulse? He plays with absolutely zero fire or passion and, as we like to say: If he ain't scorin', he ain't helpin'.

At a little more than 6-3, 200 pounds with great hands, you would think teams would be lining up to take him in the top 10. And we honestly do believe that he could become a 30-goal scorer at the NHL level. But it would be the softest 30 goals in the history of goaldom. And somebody in your organization along the way would have to teach him how to at least spell the word "compete," because it's absolutely certain at this stage that he has no clue about the meaning of that word.
-----

On the Russian thing, I sort of agree with Gillis's approach. But i always make exceptions for those who at least show the initiative to move over to NA prior to their draft year. I like Zykov and made quite a commitment coming to Baie Comeau. I wouldn't hesitate in taking him because of the russian factor.

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05-19-2013, 10:50 PM
  #794
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Just catching up on RLR and i have never read such a scathing review from Woodlief. Not trying to bring Mantha down.
Scathing? Might as well dig his grave and buy a casket.

Did you buy the RLR draft guide?

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05-19-2013, 10:51 PM
  #795
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jesus, somebody has never seen brad boyes play

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05-19-2013, 10:55 PM
  #796
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Mantha is a quintessential high-risk, high return player. Here's a snippet from his review at THW.


Quote:
“Mantha brings a huge amount of skill and athleticism to the rink every night, and fits into the category of a ‘physcial specimen’. Mantha stands at 6’4 190 pounds and has the athletic frame that could translate to any sport. On the ice however, he is an elite offensive player. Mantha has one of the shots in the QMJHL, with a lightning fast release that has helped him score at a .82 goals per game clip this season, and he sits 8th in league scoring. Mantha can also see the ice very well, setting up teammates on the rush and stationary on the powerplay. The concern with Mantha is his compete level, and the consistency with which he uses it. Mantha was fired up and agitated with fellow 2013 draft-eligible Nathan Mackinnon in Halifax and started hitting and dominating on the boards against Halifax. According other online viewings and scouting reports, that is exception and not the norm for Mantha. He even said himself in his interview with TSR that it is something that needs to be improved. That is the scary thing with Mantha, because if he used all his tools on a consistent basis he would be with names like Monahan and Drouin in the top 5 conversation.”
http://thehockeywriters.com/anthony-...spect-profile/

Anyways, I still favour taking him, as drafting these kinds of players is the only way to land potential star players if your not drafting in the top 5-10. He's by no means a slam dunk, but if we draft a player like him every year for 5 years, we might end up with one or two star players, as opposed to 3 or 4 2nd line/pairing players, who are a lot easier to come by in both trades and via UFA.

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05-19-2013, 10:56 PM
  #797
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
Scathing? Might as well dig his grave and buy a casket.

Did you buy the RLR draft guide?
Hahah. I think I am going to buy Hockey Prospects Black Book because it has game reports. I want something really detailed rather than just a write up on the top 60 or 90. THN can be that for me. Mark Edwards says the Black Book will be like 400 pages! Cheaper too.

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05-19-2013, 10:58 PM
  #798
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its a simplification but if a player says "yeah, getting engaged in the game is something i need to do more of/consistently" im gonna say there's something to work with

that said, id still be happier taking on risk in the form of a smaller guy like petan whose skills may not translate rather than the rare 1/200 guy who might have attitude problems

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05-19-2013, 11:01 PM
  #799
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thefeebster View Post
Just catching up on RLR and i have never read such a scathing review from Woodlief. Not trying to bring Mantha down.



-----

On the Russian thing, I sort of agree with Gillis's approach. But i always make exceptions for those who at least show the initiative to move over to NA prior to their draft year. I like Zykov and made quite a commitment coming to Baie Comeau. I wouldn't hesitate in taking him because of the russian factor.
Ugly words for Mantha. Either you have drive or you don't. It's not teachable and it is rarely found.

As for Russians I agree - the NA based prospects have made it clear they'd prefer to play here, the high end Russians (1st round talents) I think you take the risk on. The rest - there are probably NA players of similar level that are safer at the same pick. I can't blame any Russian based player that would rather stay home. If you were a russian based guy of Tanev's level would you come over? You do 3 or 4 years development in the KHL and then after doing your apprenticeship you have to do it again with an ELC.


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05-19-2013, 11:05 PM
  #800
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Just catching up on RLR and i have never read such a scathing review from Woodlief. Not trying to bring Mantha down.
That's the review I've been giving him since November, although mine has been in less words. Quite possibly one of my least favourite prospects in a very long time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Verviticus View Post
jesus, somebody has never seen brad boyes play
Brad Boyes works hard and is physical compared to Mantha. You could probably pick the biggest floater in the NHL and the AHL and they would still have more work ethic than Mantha.

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