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2013 NHL Entry Draft Talk II

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Old
04-15-2013, 10:44 AM
  #126
thefeebster
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Based on ISS's list, I'd say Erne is the best selection at 25! And if that should happen and should we be so lucky, we should be running away laughing.

Even though he is dropping a bit on some lists, McKeens had him top 10 in their last ranking.

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04-15-2013, 10:55 AM
  #127
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Here's a mock of the team order and possible needs. What are people's thoughts on the assessment?

22-Vancouver - Max Domi


(First kick at a mock this year, please keep that in mind)
Domi is exactly the type of player we would all like to see in Vacouver - skilled and plays with an edge. He's built like a block too, which is always good for a hockey player. This all being said, the Canucks's (under Gillis) have a very poor record at the draft, so Domi will slide by to a team like Boston.

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04-15-2013, 11:05 AM
  #128
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Originally Posted by thefeebster View Post
Based on ISS's list, I'd say Erne is the best selection at 25! And if that should happen and should we be so lucky, we should be running away laughing.

Even though he is dropping a bit on some lists, McKeens had him top 10 in their last ranking.
Just to be safe I think we should also yell "no backsies!"

He sounds a lot like a Gillis pick though: a kid who started the season ranked higher but by the time the draft rolls around he drops a bit to be in range of our pick. Not unlike Jensen, Gaunce and Schroeder. And it never seems to be anything glaringly bad making these guys fall, they just get passed by "risers". Works for me.


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04-15-2013, 11:12 AM
  #129
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Originally Posted by thefeebster View Post
Based on ISS's list, I'd say Erne is the best selection at 25! And if that should happen and should we be so lucky, we should be running away laughing.

Even though he is dropping a bit on some lists, McKeens had him top 10 in their last ranking.
Players drop for a reason. Look at Schroeder. He dropped, because he's too small, and plays a 'soft' game. Little guys, who play soft, don't fair well in the NHL, and we are seeing that with Schroeder.

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04-15-2013, 11:19 AM
  #130
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Originally Posted by Alflives View Post
Players drop for a reason. Look at Schroeder. He dropped, because he's too small, and plays a 'soft' game. Little guys, who play soft, don't fair well in the NHL, and we are seeing that with Schroeder.
Schroeder looks good and will probably have a long career in the NHL....As he get more comfortable we'll see more skill and production

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04-15-2013, 11:26 AM
  #131
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Schroeder looks good and will probably have a long career in the NHL....As he get more comfortable we'll see more skill and production
If he is going to be an NHL player, he needs to play harder on the puck, and go to the difficult areas. He plays a perimeter game. For a little guy, that is just not going to get it done at the NHL level. Like all Canuck's fans, I want him to succeed; I just don't see it in his game. He will most likely end up playing somewhere in Europe.

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04-15-2013, 12:17 PM
  #132
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Alflives- You ever look up Marty St Louis' stats at the start of his career?

He didn't even get a sniff in the show until age 23, Jordan is 22. Marty St Louis put up 2 points as a 23 year old in 13 NHL games. As a 24 year old he put up 18 points in 56 games.

You take those two years from St Louis and add them together he's basically a 24 point per 82 game player, Schroeder has 9 points in 31 NHL games....24 point pace over 82, and is two years younger.

I'm not saying Schroeder is the next St Louis, but I think you're writing off JS a little too soon.

Marty wasn't the marty we know until he was 27 years old. It might be a little early to make the claims you have.

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04-15-2013, 12:36 PM
  #133
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Perimeter game? The guy drives to the net on every single rush if he doesn't have the puck. He has scored at least half of his AHL goals by being by the net. The only thing Schroeder doesn't do is battle for the pucks down low and most small guys don't, even ones like MSL.

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04-15-2013, 01:41 PM
  #134
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For some reason I'm just not that high on Erne. I don't think his power game will translate that well to the NHL given his size. It might work in junior, but in the NHL it's a whole different story.

Not that I would be upset if we drafted him, I just think that I would rather draft a different faller if there is one(Lazar, Mantha, maybe even Zykov), or if there is no one else, find a GM high on Erne and trade down with him.

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04-15-2013, 02:27 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
For some reason I'm just not that high on Erne. I don't think his power game will translate that well to the NHL given his size. It might work in junior, but in the NHL it's a whole different story.

Not that I would be upset if we drafted him, I just think that I would rather draft a different faller if there is one(Lazar, Mantha, maybe even Zykov), or if there is no one else, find a GM high on Erne and trade down with him.

It's no different than the concerns about Oshie, when he was drafted. It comes down to strength at a certain height and weight, and not necessarily the average size by NHL standards. He's very strong for a guy that is 6'0" 200 lbs. His game will translate IMO. Just as Zykov's should given a 10lb difference.

If Erne falls to 25, based on that list, it would be between him and Domi for me. Where I probably would end up taking Erne. Zykov, Petan and De la Rose would be behind him.

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04-15-2013, 02:36 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
For some reason I'm just not that high on Erne. I don't think his power game will translate that well to the NHL given his size. It might work in junior, but in the NHL it's a whole different story.

Not that I would be upset if we drafted him, I just think that I would rather draft a different faller if there is one(Lazar, Mantha, maybe even Zykov), or if there is no one else, find a GM high on Erne and trade down with him.
Really, the fact that he plays the power game shows me more than a guy like Matha, who doesn't.

Erne plays a lot like Dustin Brown from what I've seen, with a bit more of a penchant for taking the puck to the net. (the Oshie comp below fits pretty well too).

I'd take that at 25 easily.

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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
It's no different than the concerns about Oshie, when he was drafted. It comes down to strength at a certain height and weight, and not necessarily the average size by NHL standards. He's very strong for a guy that is 6'0" 200 lbs. His game will translate IMO. Just as Zykov's should given a 10lb difference.

If Erne falls to 25, based on that list, it would be between him and Domi for me. Where I probably would end up taking Erne. Zykov, Petan and De la Rose would be behind him.
He's very strong and is still sort of 'pudgy'. Harden that kid up, and he's basically what we're hoping David Booth is.

I imagine Erne is they type of player that rises on draft boards for teams that pay attention to the new analytics on hockey, like Corsi.

He drives plays the other way. He's strong enough to get to the net, and he has that low center of gravity (wide base) like Zykov, that attribute to the 'heavy' players, winning teams tend to have a lot of.

I take Erne based on ISS lists, even over more skilled guys like Domi and Petan. But I'm unlike a lot of others on this board, I would almost embrace a Nashville type, meat and potatoes lineup with good defense and goaltending than a top heavy lineup.

You start adding guys like Erne to a prospect list of Kassian, Gaunce, and Jensen this team has the size and ability to wear down opponents.

I want to see highly competitive players who are hard to play (or 'heavy' in wearing down the opposition).

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04-15-2013, 02:48 PM
  #137
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Just completed - the most in depth mock draft on the planet up at THW. Okay, well maybe not on the planet. Heck, maybe not even in North America. But...it is pretty in depth...

Some story lines:
- Canucks go Russian, but not your typical Russian - sniper who plays North American style
- Flames draft 2 kids born in Calgary plus an offensive dynamo
- Habs draft prospect from la belle province
- Oilers nab another Russian
- Leafs draft son of enforcer
- So do Jets!
- Sens get an ice warrior
- Avs brings a big blueliner back home! (not that much of a shock).
- Devils cash in on Grigorenko situation take 2.
- Caps refurbish their Swedish prospect ranks

Link: http://thehockeywriters.com/2013-nhl...april-edition/

Good haul for the Nucks?

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04-15-2013, 03:05 PM
  #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisralph007 View Post
Just completed - the most in depth mock draft on the planet up at THW. Okay, well maybe not on the planet. Heck, maybe not even in North America. But...it is pretty in depth...

Some story lines:
- Canucks go Russian, but not your typical Russian - sniper who plays North American style
- Flames draft 2 kids born in Calgary plus an offensive dynamo
- Habs draft prospect from la belle province
- Oilers nab another Russian
- Leafs draft son of enforcer
- So do Jets!
- Sens get an ice warrior
- Avs brings a big blueliner back home! (not that much of a shock).
- Devils cash in on Grigorenko situation take 2.
- Caps refurbish their Swedish prospect ranks

Link: http://thehockeywriters.com/2013-nhl...april-edition/

Good haul for the Nucks?
I'd be happy with Zykov if it went down like that. Interesting that you have Erne going that early though.

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04-15-2013, 03:10 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
Perimeter game? The guy drives to the net on every single rush if he doesn't have the puck. He has scored at least half of his AHL goals by being by the net. The only thing Schroeder doesn't do is battle for the pucks down low and most small guys don't, even ones like MSL.
If Schroeder played the way you described, MG would not have made the trade for Roy, because Schroeder would be playing that role on the Canucks. He wouldn't be in the AHL. The Canucks already have too many soft players in their top nine. There is not room for Schroeder, unless he plays more hard-nosed.

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04-15-2013, 03:11 PM
  #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisralph007 View Post
Just completed - the most in depth mock draft on the planet up at THW. Okay, well maybe not on the planet. Heck, maybe not even in North America. But...it is pretty in depth...

Some story lines:
- Canucks go Russian, but not your typical Russian - sniper who plays North American style
- Flames draft 2 kids born in Calgary plus an offensive dynamo
- Habs draft prospect from la belle province
- Oilers nab another Russian
- Leafs draft son of enforcer
- So do Jets!
- Sens get an ice warrior
- Avs brings a big blueliner back home! (not that much of a shock).
- Devils cash in on Grigorenko situation take 2.
- Caps refurbish their Swedish prospect ranks

Link: http://thehockeywriters.com/2013-nhl...april-edition/

Good haul for the Nucks?
Good read, thanks.

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04-15-2013, 03:12 PM
  #141
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Really, the fact that he plays the power game shows me more than a guy like Matha, who doesn't.
I never claimed Mantha was a power forward. He's a dynamic goal scorer, and his size will only help him when transitioning to a pro game compared to smaller forwards. Erne relies on making power moves to generate offense, and it will be a lot harder to do that against the Charas and Webers of the NHL than it is in junior. He may adapt, but I can't help worrying he won't. Also, I'd always prefer taking someone with a high ceiling skillwise than someone who likely tops out as a Brown or Callahan type player.


Quote:
I take Erne based on ISS lists, even over more skilled guys like Domi and Petan. But I'm unlike a lot of others on this board, I would almost embrace a Nashville type, meat and potatoes lineup with good defense and goaltending than a top heavy lineup.

You start adding guys like Erne to a prospect list of Kassian, Gaunce, and Jensen this team has the size and ability to wear down opponents.

I want to see highly competitive players who are hard to play (or 'heavy' in wearing down the opposition).
I really think that trying to change our identity too much would just result in being caught in the middle. Our defense is not set up to play that way. We don't have a franchise dman to build around, and we don't have any prospects like a Petrovic or a Klefbom that fit the mould you want to go in.

Futhermore, what happens to the Sedins? Roy? Schroeder? Start playing a gritty defensive system and those players start losing effectiveness. Even Jensen would probably do better in our current system than in a Nashville one.

I like the way we're set up now. A lot of skill with a bit of a physical edge from players who can still keep up. Chicago, Detroit, and Pittsburgh all won the cup with a system similar to ours, I don't see why we can't either.

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04-15-2013, 03:33 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post

I really think that trying to change our identity too much would just result in being caught in the middle. Our defense is not set up to play that way. We don't have a franchise dman to build around, and we don't have any prospects like a Petrovic or a Klefbom that fit the mould you want to go in.

Futhermore, what happens to the Sedins? Roy? Schroeder? Start playing a gritty defensive system and those players start losing effectiveness. Even Jensen would probably do better in our current system than in a Nashville one.

I like the way we're set up now. A lot of skill with a bit of a physical edge from players who can still keep up. Chicago, Detroit, and Pittsburgh all won the cup with a system similar to ours, I don't see why we can't either.
I have no clue what those two prospect defensman have to do with having a good defense?

We already have the good defense. We need the hard nosed, heavy players.

Sedin's can score regardless, I'm not too worried, although my comments are more about the transition from having the Sedin's to not having them. We already play a defensive system, we just don't wear down opponents, especially along the boards.

Detroit won a cup with a once in a lifetime defensman, it's not even worth mentioning them in that case.

Chicago had skill, but the also had 'heavy' players throughout the lineup. Byfuglien, Ladd, Brouwer in the top 9....

Pittsburgh, really, you want to lump us in with Pittsburgh....I don't.

LA and Boston had equal skill and 'meat'....we need to trend that way. The league is, and Gillis is trending that way too.

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04-15-2013, 03:38 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by Alflives View Post
If Schroeder played the way you described, MG would not have made the trade for Roy, because Schroeder would be playing that role on the Canucks. He wouldn't be in the AHL. The Canucks already have too many soft players in their top nine. There is not room for Schroeder, unless he plays more hard-nosed.
That makes zero sense. He made the trade for Roy because Roy is a player that has proven to be a 60-80 point center while Schroeder is a rookie with little experience. If you think Roy is any more feisty than Schroeder then I have a bridge to sell you.

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04-15-2013, 03:45 PM
  #144
Vankiller Whale
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I have no clue what those two prospect defensman have to do with having a good defense?

We already have the good defense. We need the hard nosed, heavy players.

Sedin's can score regardless, I'm not too worried, although my comments are more about the transition from having the Sedin's to not having them. We already play a defensive system, we just don't wear down opponents, especially along the boards.

Detroit won a cup with a once in a lifetime defensman, it's not even worth mentioning them in that case.

Chicago had skill, but the also had 'heavy' players throughout the lineup. Byfuglien, Ladd, Brouwer in the top 9....

Pittsburgh, really, you want to lump us in with Pittsburgh....I don't.

LA and Boston had equal skill and 'meat'....we need to trend that way. The league is, and Gillis is trending that way too.
Our defense is good, but it's structured towards a more offensive system. We lack those towering, physical, crease clearing defenseman both in our lineup and in our prospect system making it harder to play that way.

I don't understand what you're saying with Pittsburgh/Detroit. That they were better than us? Maybe. But that doesn't mean with a bit of luck we can't win the cup without trying to turn into Boston or LA. Boston had far from a cake walk to their cup win, were taken to Game 7 by Tampa Bay, and of course by us, and we were decimated by injuries.

Our top-9 is set up similar to Chicago's. Centred mainly around skill, but still have some gritty guys to complement them(Burrows, Kassian, Higgins, Hansen, Booth(when healthy) etc.)

LA had some real luck with matchups. We were missing our leading scorer and had Kesler playing hurt, St. Louis lost their starting goaltender and franchise defenseman, Phoenix was riding a hot Mike Smith. Quick had a Conn-Smythe worthy performance, and without him they wouldn't have even made the playoffs.

Either way could work, but there's no guarantee one way or another, and if we're already set up one way, we shouldn't start tearing it all up as a knee-jerk reaction to losing in the playoffs, as is the case with 28 other teams every year.


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04-15-2013, 03:45 PM
  #145
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
I take Erne based on ISS lists, even over more skilled guys like Domi and Petan. But I'm unlike a lot of others on this board, I would almost embrace a Nashville type, meat and potatoes lineup with good defense and goaltending than a top heavy lineup.

I want to see highly competitive players who are hard to play (or 'heavy' in wearing down the opposition).
I agree. I'd take Erne without hesitation and i agree with your kind of team. I like highly competitive and smart players who give full effort and play hard and are hard to play against.

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04-15-2013, 03:51 PM
  #146
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If Schroeder played the way you described, MG would not have made the trade for Roy, because Schroeder would be playing that role on the Canucks. He wouldn't be in the AHL. The Canucks already have too many soft players in their top nine. There is not room for Schroeder, unless he plays more hard-nosed.
MG making the trade for Roy doesn't presuppose that Schroeder did not play with an edge. AV and many posters have noted that Schroeder's physical game was fine and surprisingly good.

Don't get me wrong, Schroeder has his weaknesses and isn't a blue-chip prospect. But you are attributing his lack of point production to a point that is simply not there. See his goals and scoring chances where he goes to the 'dirty' areas, ie the slot and in front of the net.

The problem with Schroeder is pace adjustment and his poor conversion rate. On this he is improving, watch some Wolves games. Don't just post things about being a perimeter player based on his size.

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04-15-2013, 05:57 PM
  #147
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Tampering?



(That's Max "Winning is better than a Tie" Domi and David "Prince Charming" Booth)

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04-15-2013, 06:05 PM
  #148
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Tampering?



(That's Max "Winning is better than a Tie" Domi and David "Prince Charming" Booth)
I find Max very "jersey shore" looking.

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04-15-2013, 06:06 PM
  #149
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That makes zero sense. He made the trade for Roy because Roy is a player that has proven to be a 60-80 point center while Schroeder is a rookie with little experience. If you think Roy is any more feisty than Schroeder then I have a bridge to sell you.
I like bridges; I have two in my mouth!

I still believe Schroeder will end up in Europe.

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04-15-2013, 06:40 PM
  #150
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I predicted the past 2 picks dead on. And I got the same feeling about max domi. Also going for a stretch that we pick Jackson houck in the third round and cole ully in the fourth

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