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2013 NHL Entry Draft Talk II

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Old
04-17-2013, 04:07 PM
  #176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PRNuck View Post
We're talking Subban in the third? Yeah I'm on board with that. I see some stupid team taking him early 2nd.
I would be surprised if he were available when we pick in the 3rd. His name alone will get him picked by mid 2nd, though he did have a production season.

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04-17-2013, 04:42 PM
  #177
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So he's an excellent 3rd round pick then?
I'll clarify. Both of them play the same way, not that they are going to be equivalent.

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04-17-2013, 07:18 PM
  #178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
See, this is where I feel your assessment is fundamentally flawed.

Is Subban actually a 1st pairing defensman? I'd say no. I'd say there are almost too many things to hope goes right, in order for him to get close, especially at 5'9". Look at Ballard vs Backes last night....I'm not sure I want to bank on a tiny guy like that having to handle the 230lbs forwards around the league. And to me that is a what a top line defensman does.


Guys like Subban and Slepyshev(you mentioned him earlier) are skilled players, but you need more than skill to be a 1st liner or a top pair guy.

I mean look around the league - Dave Backes was drafted as a low upside physical pick...he dominated the game last night.

I'd take a 2nd liner with other physical attributes to a dimunitive 1st liner....just look at the Schroeder pick. Dimunitive 1st line talent (pre-draft projections) and we didn't take a slower skating, larger C, with the size and grit quotient who went 10 or so picks later....Ryan O'Reilly. I get that hindsight is 20-20 and I am still in favour of the Schoreder pick, but small with upside is often much riskier than safe and effective.
I fail to see what exactly the flaw is. Do I expect Subban to be able to shut down guys like Backes? Not exactly. What I do think is that he can become a player like Karlsson/Campbell/Timonen/Visnovsky/etc, who play "defense" by excelling at driving the offense forward. If you'r looking to draft a great shut-down defenseman, that's a completely different kettle of fish.(unless of course you're drafting Seth Jones whose proficient at both, but in the later rounds there is no such luxury)

And as much as Backes "dominated" us last night, he still failed to get on the scoreboard. Being a physical presence is great, but isn't the be all and end all of hockey. Ryan O'Reilly was a diamond in the rough, to be sure. But he will never be more than a good 2nd line centre. If we're looking for impact players in the later rounds, we might as well draft those with as high an upside as possible. Why did players like MSL or Datsyuk get drafted very late or not at all? Because despite their skill people passed over them due to questions about size or the Russian factor. But those who do overcome those problems have the best chance at becoming star players.

The core should be made up of players of high calibre skill to drive the offense, and if needed gritty players can be acquired via trade to compliment them. Always draft the BPA. And if Subban is available at the end of the third round, I have a hard time believing there will be any better players left.

EDIT: Also, just to clarify, I'm only talking about after the 1st or maybe 2nd rounds, where it's still moderately likely to draft a player with both size and skill. In the 1st round I have no problem with us drafting someone like Gaunce, etc, who is a consensus best pick.


Last edited by Vankiller Whale: 04-17-2013 at 07:24 PM.
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Old
04-17-2013, 07:20 PM
  #179
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all backes did was flub some hits, get REAL ANGRY URGH and goad burr into a dumb penalty. "Dang, Dont Dominate Me" - a thing canucks said when backes made his angry face

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04-17-2013, 08:19 PM
  #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alflives View Post
Tambellini will be much higer pick, maybe even in the first round. He's big, and still growing, with top end skill. Top 15 pick, or even top 10?
did you draft Patrick White?... lol..

you can get Tambellini with a late 2nd or even late 3rd round pick.

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Old
04-17-2013, 09:02 PM
  #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verviticus View Post
all backes did was flub some hits, get REAL ANGRY URGH and goad burr into a dumb penalty. "Dang, Dont Dominate Me" - a thing canucks said when backes made his angry face
Backes dominated that game. If he was on our team we'd have been ready to annoint him as savior.

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04-17-2013, 10:09 PM
  #182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alflives View Post
Tambellini will be much higer pick, maybe even in the first round. He's big, and still growing, with top end skill. Top 15 pick, or even top 10?
Last BCHL Top 10 pick was Kyle Turris..


Highest after that was #20 in 2010 Beau Bennett.


Tambellini will be available in the late 2nd.

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Old
04-18-2013, 07:21 AM
  #183
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http://www.draftsite.com/nhl/mock-draft/2013/

Just for fun, post who you would take at each position that would be available. It's the full 7 rounds, and it looks as good a mock as any. Although they did slip up and gave us Florida's third, when it was actually are own third we got back in the Booth trade.

Anyways, here's mine:

25th- Anthony Mantha
85th- Jordan Subban
115- Peter Cehlarik
145- Markus Soberg
175- Maxim Mamin
205- Filip Sandberg

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Old
04-18-2013, 09:51 AM
  #184
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Although I don't really trust that site, I will play along for fun.

25th- Petan or Hagg
85th- Zach Nastasiuk
115- Peter Cehlarik
145- Carter Verhaege or Connor Clifton
175- Matt Buckles
205- Remi Elie

That would be quite good for me. You can take your elite offense with Petan, a safer pick with Nastasiuk who I moved up quite a bit because I think he will go in the 2nd round, some risk but upside with Cehlarik. Could go with Verhaege or Clifton because we do well with our 5th round defensemen, Buckles and Elie in the last two rounds are steals, in terms of how I'd value them.


Last edited by thefeebster: 04-18-2013 at 10:07 AM.
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Old
04-18-2013, 10:45 AM
  #185
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That site is what it is - a good batch of names.
25- Petan (and I still like Dickinson).
85- Moutrey
115- Nastasiuk
145- Reading about Verhaeghe I like him, we also know the Canucks have looked at Viktor Arvidsson. Taylor Cammaratta is also an option here, but I wouldn't take him if Petan was the 1st.
175 - Don't know Buckles much, nice stats, and we know the Canucks like that league. I like what I read and what little I've seen of Jeremy Gregoire (draws comparisons to Max Talbot).
215- Not many choices, but based on this list, Elie (who I think will go earlier, like in the first 100 picks)

This list has a whole bunch of names all over the place, like guys I don't see going as high as they are listed.

Kyle Burroughs is a smooth skating defensman (he's 5'11") who looked good everytime I saw Regina this year. Only -8 on a team with a -77 goal differential. He can play both ways, is pretty competitive and is a later birthdate (17 at the draft). Similar to Jesse Lees, I wouldn't mind taking either guy in the 4th or beyond.

I also scanned this list 4 or 5 times and didn't see goalie Brendan Burke on it. I'd also be willing to take him, even as early as the 3rd. I like him, but admittedly I have a really hard time judging junior goalies. I saw both he and Comrie live, and I don't think much separates them really (or shouldn't at the next level).

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04-18-2013, 12:08 PM
  #186
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http://u18worlds2013.iihf.com/en/news/andersson/

Really good read. An interview with Detroit super scout, Hakan Andersson.

Things that stood out for me:

Quote:
When scouting a player, do you look to see if they would be a specific fit for the Detroit system?
Our boss Ken Holland was in his first year as chief of scouting 23 years ago when I started scouting for Detroit. We had a lot of discussions with the scouting group and management group about what our game was like and what we wanted the team to be like. But I think that most of all we look at who has the best chance of making the NHL. Because if we end up with someone we don’t like or who doesn’t fit our system, he is still an NHL-caliber player and we can just trade him. So I think our philosophy is to pick the best player. It’s so hard for a player to make the NHL, and from being drafted to playing for Detroit is almost always a minimum of three to four years, so it’s hard to try and determine if he will fit into the system at that age.
Quote:
With a team as consistently good as Detroit has been, does it get annoying sometimes when you almost never get a top ten pick?
Oh, without a doubt (laughs). The last one I can really think of is Erik Karlsson, I really early on felt that this little kid could be a star in the NHL, but I just hoped that people wouldn’t like him, because there was talk about him being small and he was taking a lot of what people felt were stupid chances with the puck. But it was part of his learning process, obviously he made some mistakes but he turned out to be a helluva player, and I was thinking “Oh I hope he doesn’t play as good as I think he is” so we’d have a shot at him. But he ended up going 15th to Ottawa. Obviously if you redid that draft today he’d be a top five pick.
Quote:
Have there been any big changes in how players are scouted from when you started out? For example, are players getting scouted at a younger age now than before?
No, it's actually the opposite with me. In Sweden we have a tournament for 15, 16 year olds from different states in Sweden that’s shown on TV. I followed that closely the first couple of years, but then I realized that the difference between 16 and 18 was big. So I payed less attention to it. Agents fight like cats and dogs over kids then two years later then don’t get drafted, which is a shame.

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Old
04-18-2013, 12:30 PM
  #187
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25th- Anthony Mantha/Mirco Müller
85th- Cole Cassels/Nick Moutrey
115- Viktor Crus-Rydberg/Jared Hauf
145- Markus Soberg/Zach Natasiuk
175- Remi Elie
205- Whoever

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Old
04-18-2013, 05:22 PM
  #188
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25- Rychel He just seems like a Gillis pick. If somehow Domi, Lazar, Horvat drop into our laps then they are the obvious

85- Nastasiuk Solid playoffs, played better down the stretch. Good build....not really sure about the 3rd round. Jackson Houck would be nice

115- Ully The kid just works so hard for the Blazers. Good skill set, goes every shift, really like him

145-Geertsen I like him, big mean Dman

175 - Bertuzzi gotta go with the name...no rationale, though I did hear he played well in the second half

205 - Ellie gotta trust he's gone before this

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04-18-2013, 10:03 PM
  #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
That site is what it is - a good batch of names.
25- Petan (and I still like Dickinson).
85- Moutrey
115- Nastasiuk
145- Reading about Verhaeghe I like him, we also know the Canucks have looked at Viktor Arvidsson. Taylor Cammaratta is also an option here, but I wouldn't take him if Petan was the 1st.
175 - Don't know Buckles much, nice stats, and we know the Canucks like that league. I like what I read and what little I've seen of Jeremy Gregoire (draws comparisons to Max Talbot).
215- Not many choices, but based on this list, Elie (who I think will go earlier, like in the first 100 picks)
I'd just like to add, Arvidsson has had a monster playoff as Skelleftea won the championship. He's been in the papers a few times. Tied with the most goals on his team, while playing the 3rd least minutes on the team (10:36/game).

If what i saw at the WJC is any indication, this is a guy who raises his game when they become important. I certainly wouldn't mind him in our organization.

----

I really like Matt Buckles, i think he is being really under-rated by that list and doesn't get enough hype. Looking at how Devin Shore was consistently ranked in the 2nd/3rd round and was taken 61st overall last draft, I don't see how Buckles gets ranked so late. Statistically there is not much separating these players, Shore with 1.41 PPG pace, Buckles with 1.42 PPG pace, and Buckles plays the type of game suited for the NHL and has a good frame.

Quote:
“Matt Buckles plays a power forward game,” stated Director of NHL Central Scouting Dan Marr. “He's a very effective offensive player when utilizing a size/strength game to the net and is a proven scorer. Matt has an NHL calibre shot and great finishing ability.”

Buckles was one of the dominant offensive forces in the OJHL this past season, finishing eighth overall in the scoring race and fourth among all scorers with 40 goals, accounting for almost 18% of the club's fifth best 224 goals for. He accomplished all this while providing a physical presence that included 107 penalty minutes, tied for 17th among all players. A key member of the Buzzers power play unit that would finish sixth in the OJHL with 20.08% efficiency, Buckles would record 13 power player goals, tied for second best in the league, and 24 power play points, factoring in on almost half of the club's 53 power play goals. http://www.visesports.com/article/ma...-ojhl-nhl-1837
Quote:
The St. Michael’s Buzzers head coach, general manager and director of hockey operations note Buckles’ pro-level shot, high-end speed, natural goal-scoring ability and physical strength as reasons why the centre currently ranks fifth in Ontario Junior Hockey League scoring.

Then, Ricci thinks about what the 17-year-old will be like when he adds to his 6-2, 210-pound frame.

“He may be close to being a man, now, but he’s still a boy,” said Ricci. “You project him out three or four years when he’s got man-strength and he’s at 220 pounds, he’s going to be a pretty scary guy on the ice coming down on defencemen.” http://hockeynow.ca/posts/43488-seve...d-matt-buckles
And on top of that, he has a good passion for the game.

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Old
04-19-2013, 03:20 PM
  #190
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So...Nichushkin signed a KHL extension until 2014-2015. If he falls due to the Russian factor, I still think we should take him.

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04-19-2013, 03:25 PM
  #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
So...Nichushkin signed a KHL extension until 2014-2015. If he falls due to the Russian factor, I still think we should take him.
Sucky, but you're right, not like he'd make the Canucks before then anyway. That would be crazy if he fell all the way to us.

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04-19-2013, 03:29 PM
  #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
So...Nichushkin signed a KHL extension until 2014-2015. If he falls due to the Russian factor, I still think we should take him.
I doubt he falls all the way to us, he is just too good

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04-19-2013, 03:33 PM
  #193
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
So...Nichushkin signed a KHL extension until 2014-2015. If he falls due to the Russian factor, I still think we should take him.
My guess is he goes 5th to Tampa.

Just did my first mock in 4 years:

Based on April 19th NHL standings:

1Florida - Nathan Mackinnon
2Colorado - Seth Jones
3Carolina - Jonathan Drouin
4Nashville - Alexander Barkov
5Tampa - Valeri Nicushkin
6Calgary - Sean Monahan
7Edmonton - Darnell Nurse
8Philadelphia - Nikita Zadorov
9New Jersey - Elias Lindholm
10Buffalo - Hunter Shinkaruk
11Phoenix - Max Domi
12Detroit - Alexander Wennberg
13Dallas - Rasmus Ristolainen
14Winnepeg - Bo Horvat
15Columbus (via NYR) - Curtis Lazar
16Columbus - Nicolas Petan
17Washington - Josh Morrissey
18Buffalo (via MIN) - Anthony Mantha
19New York Islanders - Ryan Pulock
20Ottawa - Robert Hagg
21Calgary (via STL) - Arturri Lehkonen
22Toronto - Kerby Rychel
23Columbus (via LA) - Jacob de la Rose
24San Jose - Valentin Zykov
25Boston - Samuel Morin
26Vancouver - Adam Erne
27Montreal - Fredrik Gauthier
28Anaheim - Ryan Hartman
29Calgary (via PIT) - Jordan Subban
30Chicago - JT Compher


Be interested to hear peoples comments. Keep in mind I did this very quickly, but this seems fairly realistic. Although, I'm not sure if Boston passes on Erne.

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04-19-2013, 04:30 PM
  #194
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Looks solid. I think Fucale will be taken in the 1st(likely by Toronto or Chicago) and I think Subban will be a mid-late 2nd rounder.

I'm also interested in what you see in Morin. Sure, he's huge, but I don't think he's 1st round material. Certainly not taken before Erne and Gauthier.

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04-19-2013, 04:50 PM
  #195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Looks solid. I think Fucale will be taken in the 1st(likely by Toronto or Chicago) and I think Subban will be a mid-late 2nd rounder.

I'm also interested in what you see in Morin. Sure, he's huge, but I don't think he's 1st round material. Certainly not taken before Erne and Gauthier.
There is always a 1st round reach...for me it's Subban. Seems like a Feaster pick, where upside trumps all logic.

Morin is huge, can skate, has good hockey sense, and is just starting to put the offense together.

Wouldn't be shocked to see him in the 1st.

I hate ranking goalies and to be fair, I don't see what sets Fucale so far above Comrie or Jarry.

Gauthier IMO is a low upside safe pick, lower upside and IMO less safe than Gaunce was last year.

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04-19-2013, 05:22 PM
  #196
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I will actually be disappointed if Calgary doesn't take Andre Burakowsky with Pittsburgh's pick.

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04-19-2013, 05:45 PM
  #197
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Is there something wrong with the Canuck's WHL scouts? The team seems to rarely draft guys from the closest league.

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04-19-2013, 05:51 PM
  #198
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
My guess is he goes 5th to Tampa.

Just did my first mock in 4 years:

Based on April 19th NHL standings:

Be interested to hear peoples comments. Keep in mind I did this very quickly, but this seems fairly realistic. Although, I'm not sure if Boston passes on Erne.
couple things that stood out for me, although they probably just need some explanation are Erne falling to us, and Subban being drafted in the first round. I though Erne was projected to go much higher and Subban much lower.

Very interested to read your reasonings as I have been following this thread closely.

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04-20-2013, 02:05 PM
  #199
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Quote:
Originally Posted by live playoff hockey View Post
couple things that stood out for me, although they probably just need some explanation are Erne falling to us, and Subban being drafted in the first round. I though Erne was projected to go much higher and Subban much lower.

Very interested to read your reasonings as I have been following this thread closely.
I typed up a reply to this yesterday, must have closed the window before I hit send.

Oh well, I'll go again.

Erne is dropping on ISS' list, he's outside there top 30 at this point. I'm not sure he slips past Boston, but this is a mock....just trying to make picks based on team needs and tendencies.

Subban is there because of the potential upside, Calgary loves the high end, even if there is questions of size and ability to make the transition to the NHL. Seems like a Feaster pick.

My response was better yesterday, but that's the gist of it.

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04-20-2013, 02:49 PM
  #200
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If we get Erne, I do hope we are also looking at possibly trading some of our other assets for picks. Kid looks like he could be an NHLer, but we need a prospect or two with that "wow" factor. So far Jensen has been our best prospect for the last few years, and looking at the Pittsburghs, the Detroits and most other contenders, their prospect pools do not seem as depleted as ours.

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