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Official Jets coaching discussion (Noel sucks! Noel rules! and everything in between)

View Poll Results: Should the Jets extend Claude Noel? (Contract expires in 2014)
Yes (1 year extension) 28 38.89%
Yes (multi-year extension) 19 26.39%
No 25 34.72%
Voters: 72. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
05-08-2013, 03:11 PM
  #276
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Originally Posted by Resurrection View Post
If Torts Byslma or tipper are available noelle has to go. If Chevy doesn't make that call they both have to go.

Edit: Or AV
I disagree. I don't think a coach has ever been fired because someone else became available.

The decision as to whether or not he's let go this off-season will have already been made.I just don't remember a single time a coach has been moved because of an "upgrade" became available.

Suggesting Chevy needs to go if he doesn't make that call is bizarre, as you'd be firing chevy for not doing something no gm has ever really done[fire a coach because of an "upgrade"] (at least not recently). Coaching is a weird position, and it doesn't seem that the pool of available talent is ever an influencer on GM's decisions, it's seems to be almost exclusively driven by the teams performance under there coach.


thus far, Noel hasn't been bad enough to get fired. If GM"s did make ("upgrade") movements in coaches, it definitly would be in a situation like this, but it just isn't the way it seems to go. That being said, if Noel doesn't make the playoffs this year, i want him gone.

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05-08-2013, 05:20 PM
  #277
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Originally Posted by Resurrection View Post
If Torts Byslma or tipper are available noelle has to go. If Chevy doesn't make that call they both have to go.

Edit: Or AV
Bylsma maybe...no to tortorella and a huge **** NO to AV.

Guy couldn't get it done with the talent level in Van, what makes you think he can do a damn thing here.

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05-08-2013, 05:35 PM
  #278
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Originally Posted by Resurrection View Post
If Torts Byslma or tipper are available noelle has to go. If Chevy doesn't make that call they both have to go.

Edit: Or AV
None of the above.

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05-08-2013, 05:45 PM
  #279
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Originally Posted by sully1410 View Post
Bylsma maybe...no to tortorella and a huge **** NO to AV.

Guy couldn't get it done with the talent level in Van, what makes you think he can do a damn thing here.
Some would argue that AV made the Sedins and Co better with his usage decisions.

He tends to play players to their strengths.

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05-08-2013, 05:50 PM
  #280
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Some would argue that AV made the Sedins and Co better with his usage decisions.

He tends to play players to their strengths.
I could have done that. He's a terrible coach in the playoffs and has a hard time adapting his game plan. Case and point is the last two years.

I thought we wanted a coach that would give us playoff success.

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05-08-2013, 06:08 PM
  #281
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Originally Posted by Grind View Post
I disagree. I don't think a coach has ever been fired because someone else became available.

The decision as to whether or not he's let go this off-season will have already been made.I just don't remember a single time a coach has been moved because of an "upgrade" became available.

Suggesting Chevy needs to go if he doesn't make that call is bizarre, as you'd be firing chevy for not doing something no gm has ever really done[fire a coach because of an "upgrade"] (at least not recently). Coaching is a weird position, and it doesn't seem that the pool of available talent is ever an influencer on GM's decisions, it's seems to be almost exclusively driven by the teams performance under there coach.


thus far, Noel hasn't been bad enough to get fired. If GM"s did make ("upgrade") movements in coaches, it definitly would be in a situation like this, but it just isn't the way it seems to go. That being said, if Noel doesn't make the playoffs this year, i want him gone.
That's an amazing position to take considering its impossible to prove its never happened. Also it's not bizare because its his job to improve the team and coaching. Both of these guys are huge upgrades and Noelle has but 1 year left; it's not like the dude was given 2 weeks. He had 2 seasons and the team hasn't improved measurably enough for him to be given the reigns over stanley cup winning coaches

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05-08-2013, 06:09 PM
  #282
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Originally Posted by sully1410 View Post
I could have done that. He's a terrible coach in the playoffs and has a hard time adapting his game plan. Case and point is the last two years.

I thought we wanted a coach that would give us playoff success.
The problem the last two years is that the team really isn't that good.

They have some depth on D, but they don't have much apart from the Sedins up front. One line teams don't go deep.

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05-08-2013, 11:18 PM
  #283
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Originally Posted by truck View Post
The problem the last two years is that the team really isn't that good.

They have some depth on D, but they don't have much apart from the Sedins up front. One line teams don't go deep.
Your response describes the Jets - team really isn't that good...some depth on D but not much up front.

So how would AV do any better than Noel with this group?

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05-09-2013, 01:15 AM
  #284
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Originally Posted by cheezsannich View Post
Your response describes the Jets - team really isn't that good...some depth on D but not much up front.

So how would AV do any better than Noel with this group?
Better defensive system?

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05-09-2013, 02:07 AM
  #285
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Originally Posted by dobiezeke* View Post
Your response describes the Jets - team really isn't that good...some depth on D but not much up front.

So how would AV do any better than Noel with this group?
Theoretically, better...
AV had higher calibre goaltending though (no not because of their system).
I think AV actually is a good coach for the most part. I'd like to see what the Sedins would still be doing without having 20% more OZS than any other forward in the NHL in an 82 game season.

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05-09-2013, 02:25 AM
  #286
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Originally Posted by truck View Post
The problem the last two years is that the team really isn't that good.

They have some depth on D, but they don't have much apart from the Sedins up front. One line teams don't go deep.
And how is this team any different then the team that went to the Cup in 11? Outside of Samuellson and Ehroff it's not really.

This year they had Kesler back at 100%, added another player in Derek Roy. I thought this gave the Vancouver team better scoring depth then they've had in awhile. Not to mention they basically have two top pairs on Edler/Garrison and Bieksa/Hamhuis.

Make no mistake, Vancouver is a MUCH better team then we are. Alot more talent there, and the only reason they didn't win the cup in 2011 is because AV couldn't adapt to his Sedins being shut down constantly and his choices of goalie was something of a mystery as well. Who starts a guy after he takes an 8 goal shelling?

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05-09-2013, 02:26 AM
  #287
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Theoretically, better...
AV had higher calibre goaltending though (no not because of their system).
I think AV actually is a good coach for the most part. I'd like to see what the Sedins would still be doing without having 20% more OZS than any other forward in the NHL in an 82 game season.
They would will be producing just not as much.

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05-09-2013, 07:03 AM
  #288
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Originally Posted by sully1410 View Post
And how is this team any different then the team that went to the Cup in 11? Outside of Samuellson and Ehroff it's not really.

This year they had Kesler back at 100%, added another player in Derek Roy. I thought this gave the Vancouver team better scoring depth then they've had in awhile. Not to mention they basically have two top pairs on Edler/Garrison and Bieksa/Hamhuis.

Make no mistake, Vancouver is a MUCH better team then we are. Alot more talent there, and the only reason they didn't win the cup in 2011 is because AV couldn't adapt to his Sedins being shut down constantly and his choices of goalie was something of a mystery as well. Who starts a guy after he takes an 8 goal shelling?
Having the twins at 32 vs 30 has made a difference. I think they had their shot in 2011 and that loss kind of marked the end for Daniel and Henrik "leading" the team to a cup. In 2011 they had 104 and 94 points Collectively (wow) which is insane and it was "the" year.....they are still nice players but that was the season they peaked and they are not near that level anymore.

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05-09-2013, 09:56 AM
  #289
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Having the twins at 32 vs 30 has made a difference. I think they had their shot in 2011 and that loss kind of marked the end for Daniel and Henrik "leading" the team to a cup. In 2011 they had 104 and 94 points Collectively (wow) which is insane and it was "the" year.....they are still nice players but that was the season they peaked and they are not near that level anymore.
Fair enough. But having all those offensive gifts...including a forty goal Kesler...he still couldn't get it done. They lost that series based on coaching errors, and other things, but had AV adapti his system better to Boston they would have won.

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05-09-2013, 10:00 AM
  #290
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Originally Posted by ps241 View Post
Having the twins at 32 vs 30 has made a difference. I think they had their shot in 2011 and that loss kind of marked the end for Daniel and Henrik "leading" the team to a cup. In 2011 they had 104 and 94 points Collectively (wow) which is insane and it was "the" year.....they are still nice players but that was the season they peaked and they are not near that level anymore.
I agree and that also impacts Burrows and Kesler is still not where he was.

Put them back in their prime and add Ehrhoff, Malholtra, Samuelsson and even Torres and they'd be a tougher out.

To put it in terms of nerdy possession stats...

Western Conference Team Fenwick Rankings:
2010-11 - 3rd (53.45) 4th in the league
2011-12 - 6th (51.44) 8th in the league
2012-13 - 6th (51.68) 12th in the league

In each of the last two seasons they've lost to better possession teams.

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05-09-2013, 10:06 AM
  #291
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Originally Posted by sully1410 View Post
Fair enough. But having all those offensive gifts...including a forty goal Kesler...he still couldn't get it done. They lost that series based on coaching errors, and other things, but had AV adapti his system better to Boston they would have won.
Apart from Kesler and the Sedins do they or did they have anybody who you'd consider and impact player up front? They have a bunch of pieces, but I never really thought of them as an overly gifted group.

Perhaps that's why we see it differently. I never saw them as a stacked team.

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05-09-2013, 10:30 AM
  #292
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Apart from Kesler and the Sedins do they or did they have anybody who you'd consider and impact player up front? They have a bunch of pieces, but I never really thought of them as an overly gifted group.

Perhaps that's why we see it differently. I never saw them as a stacked team.
Stacked maybe a stretch, but they were a decent team which is alot better then this Jets team.

Even if they played other better possession teams there is no way on hell that they shoul have lost on four straight this year and on five last year.

I know it's not a big deal, but winning the presidents trophy two years running is nothing to sneeze at either.

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05-09-2013, 12:08 PM
  #293
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That's an amazing position to take considering its impossible to prove its never happened. Also it's not bizare because its his job to improve the team and coaching. Both of these guys are huge upgrades and Noelle has but 1 year left; it's not like the dude was given 2 weeks. He had 2 seasons and the team hasn't improved measurably enough for him to be given the reigns over stanley cup winning coaches
You missed the point.

Noel hasn't been bad enough to be fired regardless of who's available.


While i know the absence of evidence is not necessarily evidence of absence, had a move like this been done (dropping an "ok" coach for a "great" one) i'm sure at some point there would have been a GM mentioning "upgrading" or using such language.

Coach's are not like players where you just swap one out because a better ones available. If it did, you would have seen coach's fired and new ones hired mid season regularly.

My point is, like Chevy, this upcoming season was always going to be "the" year for Noel. No moving a team. In the proper conference. No lock-out, etc.

and to say he hasn't improved the team measurably...this team finish 24th under its previous coach, and has finished 17th this year (being in the playoff race until its cast game). That's an improvement. I'm no Noel booster, but saying Chevy needs to replace Noel with Torts/Vignault/etc when he's improved this team from a bottom 5 finish to challenging for a playoff team is in my opinion, very bizarre.

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05-09-2013, 12:15 PM
  #294
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Originally Posted by truck View Post
The problem the last two years is that the team really isn't that good.

They have some depth on D, but they don't have much apart from the Sedins up front. One line teams don't go deep.
Thought you were describing the Jets!

Anyone who thinks any other coach would have gotten much more out of the Jets is sadly a little delusional. Having your top D men injured through parts of two seasons, 4 top 9 forwards and 3 third lines, unspectacular goaltending doesn't equal success in the NHL. Dumping a coach with better than a .500 coaching record with a bunch of overachievers is a loopy thought.

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05-09-2013, 12:46 PM
  #295
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Thought you were describing the Jets!

Anyone who thinks any other coach would have gotten much more out of the Jets is sadly a little delusional. Having your top D men injured through parts of two seasons, 4 top 9 forwards and 3 third lines, unspectacular goaltending doesn't equal success in the NHL. Dumping a coach with better than a .500 coaching record with a bunch of overachievers is a loopy thought.
More delusional than claiming to know definitively what would or wouldn't have happened with a different coach?

I can't say definitively that AV would have gotten better results, but I think him or somebody else probably would have made a few very simple, logical changes that would help the team.

Wellwood taking faceoffs over Antropov should have happened.
Fourth liners in the top 6 shouldn't happen.
Olli on the point shouldn't have happened as long as it did.
Olli-Kane shouldn't have happened as long as it did.

Those are blatant issues. Not sure how you can say nobody would have been able to get better results. It isn't like Noel is responsible for Ladd and Wheeler shooting at higher percentages than normal. That is what lifted the team.

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05-09-2013, 12:52 PM
  #296
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Just a question, anyone think Noel would take a demotion to Special Teams coach (assistant coach) to bring in someone like Tippet, Byslma, or potentially AV (yuck)?

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05-09-2013, 12:53 PM
  #297
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Originally Posted by truck View Post
More delusional than claiming to know definitively what would or wouldn't have happened with a different coach?

I can't say definitively that AV would have gotten better results, but I think him or somebody else probably would have made a few very simple, logical changes that would help the team.

Wellwood taking faceoffs over Antropov should have happened.
Fourth liners in the top 6 shouldn't happen.
Olli on the point shouldn't have happened as long as it did.
Olli-Kane shouldn't have happened as long as it did.

Those are blatant issues. Not sure how you can say nobody would have been able to get better results. It isn't like Noel is responsible for Ladd and Wheeler shooting at higher percentages than normal. That is what lifted the team.
Some good points, but you wonder if Olli playing despite NOT producing is more on the GM than the coach. Sure Noel has misused his players at points during his two year tenure, goal-tending would be one such case, but the drop off after Pavs the last two seasons was significant add to that the injuries to both Mason and Monty.

Olli on the point was baffling, personally thought they should have given Postma more of a shot on the PP where he looked good.

I get what your saying but the talent on the Jets was sorely lacking and switching out the coach wouldn't have made much difference.

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05-09-2013, 12:59 PM
  #298
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Originally Posted by truck View Post
More delusional than claiming to know definitively what would or wouldn't have happened with a different coach?

I can't say definitively that AV would have gotten better results, but I think him or somebody else probably would have made a few very simple, logical changes that would help the team.

Wellwood taking faceoffs over Antropov should have happened.
Fourth liners in the top 6 shouldn't happen.
Olli on the point shouldn't have happened as long as it did.
Olli-Kane shouldn't have happened as long as it did.

Those are blatant issues. Not sure how you can say nobody would have been able to get better results. It isn't like Noel is responsible for Ladd and Wheeler shooting at higher percentages than normal. That is what lifted the team.
Don't you think, though, that for a certain percentage of "blatant" issues there is going to be a legitimate explanation that we as fans just aren't privy to?

The problem this year was that we had a tough schedule and, after doing really well through most of it we just hit a wall for about the last 10 games of the tough part. Once the more relaxed April schedule came, the players had a chance to rest a bit and once again went on a tear. That sort of schedule issue is not going to exist next year, or hopefully ever again. I think it will make a big difference.

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05-09-2013, 01:18 PM
  #299
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It's too bad the Jets did not seriously consider other options when hiring a head coach (they went through the motions, but it seems to me that Noel was getting the job no matter what ), since Darryl Sutter would have been a fantastic head coach for this team. He preaches hard forecheck, strong defensive play, keeps ALL players accountable and is quite good at integrating rookies into the lineup. That's the guy we should have hired.

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05-09-2013, 01:34 PM
  #300
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Originally Posted by sully1410 View Post
Fair enough. But having all those offensive gifts...including a forty goal Kesler...he still couldn't get it done. They lost that series based on coaching errors, and other things, but had AV adapti his system better to Boston they would have won.
I had the pleasure of golfing with a guy who played for Boston in that series and he said that he felt the Bruins got in the heads of Vancouver and by game 7 he felt Van quit. He was really surprised when they came out and didn't seem to want it? I don't quite look at that series like you do sully although Vancouver was a good team Boston was a bad match up for them and outscoring the Nucks 23-7 and if not for some really heroic goaltending Van could have got blown out in 5 or 6 IMHO. I thought from the 3rd game on it was kind of all downhill for Vancouver (minus game 5)

Now I will be the first to admit Vancouver still has some very nice pieces but I feel the cup dreams have sailed based on the aging stars. They can still make the playoffs but I don't think they can win it anymore with this version. You would know better than me sully are they going to be able to reload as they go or are they going to die a slow death and have to rebuild at some point? I am not familiar with their prospect pool?

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