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Old
04-05-2013, 01:18 PM
  #226
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Originally Posted by Everest View Post
I honestly feel sad for you that you fail to see what a special player he is.
Wasn't saying that at all. Just that when I do watch him he doesn't play well and elevate from his peers. Just bad luck is all on my viewing. I don't watch a ton of EC games.

Not discounting him as a player and only in that he lacks the game to game consistency of a Gretzky.

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04-05-2013, 01:56 PM
  #227
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Originally Posted by Master Lok View Post
Good game by the Canucks. Sometimes it's not what the Oilers didn't do, but what the opposition was successful at, that spells an Oiler loss. That was a dominant game by the Canucks, Schneider should get full marks for the shutout and the Canucks penalty killing was aces against the Oiler pp.
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Originally Posted by RewBicks View Post
I agree with this - the Canucks had their version of it against the Oilers two games earlier. That said, that was a completely different Canucks team out there than what we have seen most of the season. They looked like they have the past two seasons, and not like they have the past couple of months. Amazing what a little bit of positive energy/adding one skill player can do for a team.
I didn't see a different Canucks team last night. What I saw was a different Oilers team. Perhaps it was fatique from a back-to-back? A little over-confidence in their abilities? Taking shortcuts and maybe looking too far ahead? They were slower and tried to out-manuver the Canucks, which didn't come close to working.

The only difference I saw with Van last night was their positioning on the PK. They played high to the blueline and agressive along the boards. The Oil didn't adjust and kept trying the same moves with JS quarter-backing the play. After the first failed attempt they should have adjusted. I have to think they have more than one strategy when it comes to the PP. That may be a coaching miscue...

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04-05-2013, 02:53 PM
  #228
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I really don't understand why you can't buy a guy out and re-sign him in the first place.

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04-05-2013, 02:56 PM
  #229
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
I really don't understand why you can't buy a guy out and re-sign him in the first place.
because then Pittsburgh would buy out Crosby and sign him for 7 years at the league minimum

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04-05-2013, 03:03 PM
  #230
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because then Pittsburgh would buy out Crosby and sign him for 7 years at the league minimum
I was curious to see what his buy-out would look like.

They'd be paying him until 2037 haha.

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Sidney Crosby buyout from CapGeek.com:
2013-14: -$1,850,000
2014-15: -$1,850,000
2015-16: -$1,850,000
2016-17: -$750,000
2017-18: -$750,000
2018-19: $150,000
2019-20: $1,150,000
2020-21: $550,000
2021-22: $1,150,000
2022-23: $7,150,000
2023-24: $7,150,000
2024-25: $7,150,000
2025-26: $1,450,000
2026-27: $1,450,000
2027-28: $1,450,000
2028-29: $1,450,000
2029-30: $1,450,000
2030-31: $1,450,000
2031-32: $1,450,000
2032-33: $1,450,000
2033-34: $1,450,000
2034-35: $1,450,000
2035-36: $1,450,000
2036-37: $1,450,000

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04-05-2013, 03:11 PM
  #231
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So have you guys lost hope in Ryan Jones?

He was a hero for the Oilers at one point in time, really valuable guy to have on your team.

If he does get scratched/sent down, I would pick him up in a heartbeat.

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04-05-2013, 03:33 PM
  #232
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Originally Posted by Royal Canuck View Post
So have you guys lost hope in Ryan Jones?

He was a hero for the Oilers at one point in time, really valuable guy to have on your team.

If he does get scratched/sent down, I would pick him up in a heartbeat.
I haven't lost hope, think his injury to his eye has hurt more then anything. My concern is the 3mil price tag he is rumored to want. If that's the case I can't see how we keep him around.

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04-05-2013, 03:46 PM
  #233
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
I haven't lost hope, think his injury to his eye has hurt more then anything. My concern is the 3mil price tag he is rumored to want. If that's the case I can't see how we keep him around.
Yeah, the eye injury seems to be having some effect. He's having more trouble responding to the play and perhaps suffering in acuity or peripheral vision. Also trouble finding rebounds like he used to.

Who knows whether he's recovered as much as projected or if the eye still improves. He's also had the disadvantage of being away from hockey longer and this putting him a step behind.

He's been better than Smyth and isn't really hurting the team with his minutes. His production, and hand eye coordination is presently down, which is completely understandable.
As usual his attitute and willingness to help and play any role continues.

I haven't heard about Jones contract wants. Seems like the type of guy that would be flexible to stay around and that appreciates his role and being on the club. I doubt this is a guy that would hardball and jeopardize his career. It would indeed be a poor move from an agent to try to chase contract dollar at this point. Makes much more sense for them to get a quiet deal done here if they can while they can.

If I'm Jones and his agent I want a deal done sooner. The Oilers probably want some more medical information, a prognosis, and probably not looking at anything longterm.

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04-05-2013, 03:52 PM
  #234
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
I haven't lost hope, think his injury to his eye has hurt more then anything. My concern is the 3mil price tag he is rumored to want. If that's the case I can't see how we keep him around.
I see some parallels between Glencross and Jones. I would have loved to keep Glencross and fear if we let Jones go we'd regret it in a similar fashion. Obviously has to be the right price though at <= $2.5 mil, maybe? Many factors, but I like him and what he brings to the team.

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04-05-2013, 03:52 PM
  #235
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i was at Rexall on Saturday night and the atmosphere was electric. It was my first time there and compared to Rogers arena, it was night and day. I really have to give it up to you Oiler fans for being the most passionate and crazy motha****ers there are when it comes to hockey fans. There were no ushers telling us to pipe down , stop cursing,stop banging on the glass and behave. It was also refreshing to see guys and girls at all ages go fricken nuts before, during and after the game. Everybody in Vancity are too worried to get anything spilled on their Dolce and Gabana shirt or on their iPhone facetiming the whole game. Even though my Canucks got ****** slapped. I thoroughly enjoyed my night at Rexall place. But you guys really need to get that new arena built ASAP.

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04-05-2013, 04:16 PM
  #236
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Originally Posted by chambers View Post
I see some parallels between Glencross and Jones. I would have loved to keep Glencross and fear if we let Jones go we'd regret it in a similar fashion. Obviously has to be the right price though at <= $2.5 mil, maybe? Many factors, but I like him and what he brings to the team.
It's tough because I personally don't know what was said last time around in negotiations, but where we stand today looking at Jones's stats and how he's played what has he done to warrant a raise?

The cap is going to be very similar to what it was when he got his last contract with us, so that really should eliminate inflation. He's assist ratio has went up, before he was a guy that scored a lot more then he assisted. But other then that what warrants a raise?

It's tough because I love the guy and have a feeling the conversation back in May of 2011 was probably something like "keep it up the play and in May of 2013 we'll look at a bigger deal both in length and salary".

Maybe you can give him some more money, but I don't see how the term can increase as well. We really are at the point where we can only commit so much to role players and have to really watch how much we give them all. It's bad enough we might have to keep Whitney on the bottom pairing at an overpayment. It's bad enough Smyth has a contract in which he's overpaid.

I guess he does have age on his side though.

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04-05-2013, 04:20 PM
  #237
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04-05-2013, 04:21 PM
  #238
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04-05-2013, 04:26 PM
  #239
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Originally Posted by dnicks17 View Post
I was curious to see what his buy-out would look like.

They'd be paying him until 2037 haha.
That'd be one nice retirement package

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04-05-2013, 04:30 PM
  #240
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Originally Posted by Royal Canuck View Post
So have you guys lost hope in Ryan Jones?

He was a hero for the Oilers at one point in time, really valuable guy to have on your team.

If he does get scratched/sent down, I would pick him up in a heartbeat.
His play has elevated the last 3-4 games after missing a lot of time with an eye injury. I wouldn't say that I'm ready to cut ties with him, but if he wants $2.5+ million then IMO he finds it elsewhere. We have to make a decision on Teemu Hartikainen next year as he will be waiver eligible. We either keep him and move out some bodies up front, or he moves and we keep Jones over him if he doesn't ask for too much $ relative to his worth to the team. Our bottom 6 have to get tougher to play against and while Jones competes hard, he isn't scaring anyone or hurting anyone when he lines them up.

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04-05-2013, 04:33 PM
  #241
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There simply has never been a player in all my years of hockey whom fortune smiled upon more than Shawn teflon Horcoff.

- Chris Kunitz and Pascal Dupuis disagrees.

- Rick Dipietro looks up from his contract, then gets lost in the numerous years still left.

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04-05-2013, 04:33 PM
  #242
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Jones is what he is. I like the guy but he has to score like he did in previous years to be considered valuable enough to be here long term.

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04-05-2013, 04:39 PM
  #243
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Originally Posted by Master Lok View Post
- Chris Kunitz and Pascal Dupuis disagrees.

- Rick Dipietro looks up from his contract, then gets lost in the numerous years still left.
I do not mean fortune as in suddenly being paired up on a top line. i mean fortune as far as being a totally mediocre player that got the huge pay day at just the right time while his linemate who had way more skill never did. Being a consistently crap player after his injury but the team not having any viable replacement. A guy that happened to be around when they had a coach who loved 3rd liners masquerade as 1st liners. A guy that for being the lynch pin of the worst hockey ever in the franchise got taken to task less than most, made more money than most and can turn a whole fan base into loving him after a slight up turn in his game and a small winning streak.

He really has had the golden touch in his career. Makes more money than any oiler player in history, gets compliments for being a great 3rd liner when almost all of his career he has been a 1st line or 3nd line guy with gobs of pp and pk time. Has never been accountable at all, gets named captain thus a big impediment to any buy out.

The charmed life of Shawn Horcoff.

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04-05-2013, 04:53 PM
  #244
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Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
I do not mean fortune as in suddenly being paired up on a top line. i mean fortune as far as being a totally mediocre player that got the huge pay day at just the right time while his linemate who had way more skill never did. Being a consistently crap player after his injury but the team not having any viable replacement. A guy that happened to be around when they had a coach who loved 3rd liners masquerade as 1st liners. A guy that for being the lynch pin of the worst hockey ever in the franchise got taken to task less than most, made more money than most and can turn a whole fan base into loving him after a slight up turn in his game and a small winning streak.

He really has had the golden touch in his career. Makes more money than any oiler player in history, gets compliments for being a great 3rd liner when almost all of his career he has been a 1st line or 3nd line guy with gobs of pp and pk time. Has never been accountable at all, gets named captain thus a big impediment to any buy out.

The charmed life of Shawn Horcoff.
Have you checked what this teams record is without Shawn Horcoff in the line-up?

Not a Horcoff fan, just curious how many times you've got that.

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04-05-2013, 05:59 PM
  #245
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Originally Posted by Chooch View Post
Have you checked what this teams record is without Shawn Horcoff in the line-up?

Not a Horcoff fan, just curious how many times you've got that.
It was really only a matter of time before that topic was touched upon again...

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04-05-2013, 06:14 PM
  #246
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Yeah, the eye injury seems to be having some effect. He's having more trouble responding to the play and perhaps suffering in acuity or peripheral vision. Also trouble finding rebounds like he used to.

Who knows whether he's recovered as much as projected or if the eye still improves. He's also had the disadvantage of being away from hockey longer and this putting him a step behind.

He's been better than Smyth and isn't really hurting the team with his minutes. His production, and hand eye coordination is presently down, which is completely understandable.
As usual his attitute and willingness to help and play any role continues.

I haven't heard about Jones contract wants. Seems like the type of guy that would be flexible to stay around and that appreciates his role and being on the club. I doubt this is a guy that would hardball and jeopardize his career. It would indeed be a poor move from an agent to try to chase contract dollar at this point. Makes much more sense for them to get a quiet deal done here if they can while they can.

If I'm Jones and his agent I want a deal done sooner. The Oilers probably want some more medical information, a prognosis, and probably not looking at anything longterm.
He's definitely not fully healed. It takes a full year to recover from a torn retina. He's probably still a small bit blurry out of that eye I would imagine, and he also has to tone down what he used to do in front of the net because a rogue high stick would end his career.

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04-05-2013, 06:48 PM
  #247
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Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
I do not mean fortune as in suddenly being paired up on a top line. i mean fortune as far as being a totally mediocre player that got the huge pay day at just the right time while his linemate who had way more skill never did. Being a consistently crap player after his injury but the team not having any viable replacement. A guy that happened to be around when they had a coach who loved 3rd liners masquerade as 1st liners. A guy that for being the lynch pin of the worst hockey ever in the franchise got taken to task less than most, made more money than most and can turn a whole fan base into loving him after a slight up turn in his game and a small winning streak.

He really has had the golden touch in his career. Makes more money than any oiler player in history, gets compliments for being a great 3rd liner when almost all of his career he has been a 1st line or 3nd line guy with gobs of pp and pk time. Has never been accountable at all, gets named captain thus a big impediment to any buy out.

The charmed life of Shawn Horcoff.
Good to see the beaten horcoff sucks drum beaten again

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04-05-2013, 06:58 PM
  #248
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Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
I do not mean fortune as in suddenly being paired up on a top line. i mean fortune as far as being a totally mediocre player that got the huge pay day at just the right time while his linemate who had way more skill never did. Being a consistently crap player after his injury but the team not having any viable replacement. A guy that happened to be around when they had a coach who loved 3rd liners masquerade as 1st liners. A guy that for being the lynch pin of the worst hockey ever in the franchise got taken to task less than most, made more money than most and can turn a whole fan base into loving him after a slight up turn in his game and a small winning streak.

He really has had the golden touch in his career. Makes more money than any oiler player in history, gets compliments for being a great 3rd liner when almost all of his career he has been a 1st line or 3nd line guy with gobs of pp and pk time. Has never been accountable at all, gets named captain thus a big impediment to any buy out.

The charmed life of Shawn Horcoff.
I like this post. Very true on all counts.

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04-05-2013, 07:04 PM
  #249
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Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
I do not mean fortune as in suddenly being paired up on a top line. i mean fortune as far as being a totally mediocre player that got the huge pay day at just the right time while his linemate who had way more skill never did. Being a consistently crap player after his injury but the team not having any viable replacement. A guy that happened to be around when they had a coach who loved 3rd liners masquerade as 1st liners. A guy that for being the lynch pin of the worst hockey ever in the franchise got taken to task less than most, made more money than most and can turn a whole fan base into loving him after a slight up turn in his game and a small winning streak.

He really has had the golden touch in his career. Makes more money than any oiler player in history, gets compliments for being a great 3rd liner when almost all of his career he has been a 1st line or 3nd line guy with gobs of pp and pk time. Has never been accountable at all, gets named captain thus a big impediment to any buy out.

The charmed life of Shawn Horcoff.
This is simply not true. Almost everyone has thought he's a good #3 C for quite a while. People are just starting to look past his contract

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04-05-2013, 07:25 PM
  #250
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He's definitely not fully healed. It takes a full year to recover from a torn retina. He's probably still a small bit blurry out of that eye I would imagine, and he also has to tone down what he used to do in front of the net because a rogue high stick would end his career.
You have to wonder if he will even play again or just retire at the end of the season.

I would love to see him come back next year with the same form he showed before the eye injury.

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