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Prospect Talk PART VII

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05-20-2013, 12:30 PM
  #426
doublechili
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This whole discussion of where to play kids, or whether they even make the team, also needs to take into consideration the alternatives. So, for JT's RW, if we are 100% decided before training camp that Strome or Nino should not be 1st line RW, who else is there? Boyes? God no. McDonald or Martin? Most people scoff and say they're not talented enough. High-end RW via trade or UFA? Ha ha ha, tell me another one. So that basically leaves Okposo. And if Okposo is JT's RW, then the LW has to be Bailey. That sounds fine to me, but what if Okposo has a bad camp and Strome or Nino lights it up? Just asking.

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05-20-2013, 01:14 PM
  #427
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Originally Posted by doublechili View Post
This whole discussion of where to play kids, or whether they even make the team, also needs to take into consideration the alternatives. So, for JT's RW, if we are 100% decided before training camp that Strome or Nino should not be 1st line RW, who else is there? Boyes? God no. McDonald or Martin? Most people scoff and say they're not talented enough. High-end RW via trade or UFA? Ha ha ha, tell me another one. So that basically leaves Okposo. And if Okposo is JT's RW, then the LW has to be Bailey. That sounds fine to me, but what if Okposo has a bad camp and Strome or Nino lights it up? Just asking.
i think what most of us want is strome or nino to earn the spot next to jt, and not simply be given the spot. whether it be having an undeniably "lights out" pre-season or by working their way up line by line after earning a roster spot in camp.

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05-20-2013, 01:38 PM
  #428
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Originally Posted by thedonger View Post
i think what most of us want is strome or nino to earn the spot next to jt, and not simply be given the spot. whether it be having an undeniably "lights out" pre-season or by working their way up line by line after earning a roster spot in camp.
I'm not sure there's anyone here who is saying anything different. I think if someone suggests Nino or Strome for 1st line RW the thought by the reader is that they are being handed the position, while I think the people suggesting it are doing it under the assumption they'll earn it in camp.

The real question for now is, do the Isles go into camp with Okposo as Plan A for 1st line RW and Nino and Strome as Plan B and C? Or do they sign an "Isles type" UFA also (PAP/Boyes)? Because typing "trade for Bobby Ryan" or "sign Player X as a UFA" is easy to do but probably unrealistic.

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05-20-2013, 01:53 PM
  #429
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no he did not. he had a great first three months. but let us all not forget his 19 points in the last 43 games of the regular season after he turned on the cry baby routine. can we all stop heaping praise on this kid before it is due? he is a prospect and a solid one at that...but a prospect. he has shown himself to be the most physically and mentally immature high profile islander prospect in quite some time. so, why can't the isles bring the kid along slowly? i just don't see what the big deal is with that.
Frankly, I thought his play away from the net improved as the AHL season went on, even if his goal scoring tapered off a bit. Offensively, I thought he was at his worst when injuries depleted the forward ranks and he was out there with Mike Halmo and a revolving door of linemates. For better or worse, I think Nino really benefits from being out there with guys who can get him the puck where he's most deadly with it...either right in front where he can use his hands in close, or a little further back where he can use his shot. Colin McD was able to do that a lot earlier in the season when he was there, for example.

But I think there was a very noticeable difference in Nino's skating by the end of the year compared to the beginning, in his willingness to absorb contact along the boards and hold onto the puck rather than dumping the puck to an area when he saw someone coming and vacating like he did early in the season, and even in his back-checking through the neutral zone. Now, I'm not trying to say he became Frans Nielsen in that regard, but I never saw him actually catch someone from behind and take the puck away either two seasons ago in the NHL or earlier this past season in Bridgeport. I did see it a few times toward the end of the season.

I do agree completely with you about bringing him along the right way. He'll be ready when he's ready, and not before. But I don't think his post-lockout production is as simple as "he was a crybaby." It's giving him perhaps too much credit to think he could just go out there and completely dominate whenever he wants to, and if he's not, it's only because he's sulking. He's not that dominant of a player yet...

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05-20-2013, 03:23 PM
  #430
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Originally Posted by doublechili View Post
This whole discussion of where to play kids, or whether they even make the team, also needs to take into consideration the alternatives. So, for JT's RW, if we are 100% decided before training camp that Strome or Nino should not be 1st line RW, who else is there? Boyes? God no. McDonald or Martin? Most people scoff and say they're not talented enough. High-end RW via trade or UFA? Ha ha ha, tell me another one. So that basically leaves Okposo. And if Okposo is JT's RW, then the LW has to be Bailey. That sounds fine to me, but what if Okposo has a bad camp and Strome or Nino lights it up? Just asking.
For me, this is the biggest problem. Its perfectly fine (and the right approach) to force the kids to earn their spot. If they don't show they're ready, let them go back to Port and play their ***** off and force Snow's hand.

But, that changes the equation somewhat as to the approach during FA. Do you go out and potentially spend money on a #1 RW? If you do, that takes the Training Camp competition and renders it moot b/c if you go out and spend the $$$ on a Nathan Horton (wishful thinking) the spot is essentially his -short of walking on water, Nino will not displace a $6m/yr player no matter what he does.

And if we don't go out and get the high end Forward, what happens if Strome/Nino/Nelson are just meh during camp? There's no real alternative - the team can't realistically sign Boyes as a fallback option over the summer simply as a contingency plan. As much as Isles fans are dissatisfied with him, he is probably worth more than that.

It seems like Snow and Co. have to make the decision of whether they go all out for a FA or simply let the best young gun win the spot. Unless of course we move KO up to the first line (which I'd rather not), and then end up juggling all the lines, accordingly, but I like having some consistency if possible.

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05-20-2013, 03:39 PM
  #431
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Originally Posted by crasherino View Post
For me, this is the biggest problem. Its perfectly fine (and the right approach) to force the kids to earn their spot. If they don't show they're ready, let them go back to Port and play their ***** off and force Snow's hand.

But, that changes the equation somewhat as to the approach during FA. Do you go out and potentially spend money on a #1 RW? If you do, that takes the Training Camp competition and renders it moot b/c if you go out and spend the $$$ on a Nathan Horton (wishful thinking) the spot is essentially his -short of walking on water, Nino will not displace a $6m/yr player no matter what he does.

And if we don't go out and get the high end Forward, what happens if Strome/Nino/Nelson are just meh during camp? There's no real alternative - the team can't realistically sign Boyes as a fallback option over the summer simply as a contingency plan. As much as Isles fans are dissatisfied with him, he is probably worth more than that.

It seems like Snow and Co. have to make the decision of whether they go all out for a FA or simply let the best young gun win the spot. Unless of course we move KO up to the first line (which I'd rather not), and then end up juggling all the lines, accordingly, but I like having some consistency if possible.
Well said - that is the problem in a nutshell. You should post more!

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05-20-2013, 08:28 PM
  #432
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Originally Posted by crasherino View Post
For me, this is the biggest problem. Its perfectly fine (and the right approach) to force the kids to earn their spot. If they don't show they're ready, let them go back to Port and play their ***** off and force Snow's hand.

But, that changes the equation somewhat as to the approach during FA. Do you go out and potentially spend money on a #1 RW? If you do, that takes the Training Camp competition and renders it moot b/c if you go out and spend the $$$ on a Nathan Horton (wishful thinking) the spot is essentially his -short of walking on water, Nino will not displace a $6m/yr player no matter what he does.

And if we don't go out and get the high end Forward, what happens if Strome/Nino/Nelson are just meh during camp? There's no real alternative - the team can't realistically sign Boyes as a fallback option over the summer simply as a contingency plan. As much as Isles fans are dissatisfied with him, he is probably worth more than that.

It seems like Snow and Co. have to make the decision of whether they go all out for a FA or simply let the best young gun win the spot. Unless of course we move KO up to the first line (which I'd rather not), and then end up juggling all the lines, accordingly, but I like having some consistency if possible.
I'd like to see the Isles hit the market to fill that RW spot. But that spot's not the only one that should be up for competition. There should be two others, including a center spot provided Aucoin isn't brought back. I think we'd have Nino, Nelson, Strome, Ullstrom and Lee fighting for one center spot and one winger spot if we assume lines of Moulson-Tavares-(FA or trade); Bailey-Nielsen-Okposo; Grabner-(open)-(open); Martin-Cizikas-McDonald.

Feel free to switch Bailey and Moulson or whatever. Unless I'm missing someone under contract -- not counting Boulton who's not going to be in the lineup every night -- I think those two (open) spots are up for grabs. If it's five of them fighting for those two spots, it should be a fierce competition.

Then, if one of the prospects does walk on water as the season wears on, maybe he pushes for Moulson's spot on that first line rather than the pricey FA?

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05-20-2013, 08:37 PM
  #433
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Originally Posted by Veteran journeyman View Post
I'd like to see the Isles hit the market to fill that RW spot. But that spot's not the only one that should be up for competition. There should be two others, including a center spot provided Aucoin isn't brought back. I think we'd have Nino, Nelson, Strome, Ullstrom and Lee fighting for one center spot and one winger spot if we assume lines of Moulson-Tavares-(FA or trade); Bailey-Nielsen-Okposo; Grabner-(open)-(open); Martin-Cizikas-McDonald.

Feel free to switch Bailey and Moulson or whatever. Unless I'm missing someone under contract -- not counting Boulton who's not going to be in the lineup every night -- I think those two (open) spots are up for grabs. If it's five of them fighting for those two spots, it should be a fierce competition.

Then, if one of the prospects does walk on water as the season wears on, maybe he pushes for Moulson's spot on that first line rather than the pricey FA?
Personally, I like the idea of bringing back Aucoin. He'll be cheap, he'll be content playing 1 out of 3 games and he knows the system. That doesn't really address the 1st line though.

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05-20-2013, 08:40 PM
  #434
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Personally, I like the idea of bringing back Aucoin. He'll be cheap, he'll be content playing 1 out of 3 games and he knows the system. That doesn't really address the 1st line though.
I like Aucoin too as a 4th line center or a 13th forward, he can be useful in certain games. His biggest problem? Capuano uses him too much. If I'm Snow I don't resign Aucoin because Capuano's love affair with him is costing the team. It was okay for this season but there are far too many younsters more deserving of playing time and with Boulton already wasting a roster spot the Islanders sort of lost that luxury.

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05-20-2013, 09:21 PM
  #435
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I like Aucoin too as a 4th line center or a 13th forward, he can be useful in certain games. His biggest problem? Capuano uses him too much. If I'm Snow I don't resign Aucoin because Capuano's love affair with him is costing the team. It was okay for this season but there are far too many younsters more deserving of playing time and with Boulton already wasting a roster spot the Islanders sort of lost that luxury.
This is my problem with Capuano, i know he got us to the playoffs but some of the stuff he does concerns me. He just doesn't like giving young guys a chance to play. We have so many guys who are gonna be competing for a spot at training camp, i hope he gives them a fair shot. He trusts certain guys like aucoin and even boyes while not giving guys like nino or ullstrom a shot. He also hates changing lines, which he finally did in game two and look what happened.

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05-20-2013, 11:08 PM
  #436
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For me, this is the biggest problem. Its perfectly fine (and the right approach) to force the kids to earn their spot. If they don't show they're ready, let them go back to Port and play their ***** off and force Snow's hand.

But, that changes the equation somewhat as to the approach during FA. Do you go out and potentially spend money on a #1 RW? If you do, that takes the Training Camp competition and renders it moot b/c if you go out and spend the $$$ on a Nathan Horton (wishful thinking) the spot is essentially his -short of walking on water, Nino will not displace a $6m/yr player no matter what he does.

And if we don't go out and get the high end Forward, what happens if Strome/Nino/Nelson are just meh during camp? There's no real alternative - the team can't realistically sign Boyes as a fallback option over the summer simply as a contingency plan. As much as Isles fans are dissatisfied with him, he is probably worth more than that.

It seems like Snow and Co. have to make the decision of whether they go all out for a FA or simply let the best young gun win the spot. Unless of course we move KO up to the first line (which I'd rather not), and then end up juggling all the lines, accordingly, but I like having some consistency if possible.

This is a great post. The answer is if you're going to give any FA 5+ million for multiple years you just cannot miss on that player. A 5+ million forward MUST play better than a 20 year old rookie or your GM is doing something wrong (or in the case of DP and Yashin - Your owner is doing everything wrong).

If you draft well, sign FA's, well, and trade well then you can bring prospects along at the right pace. I mean imagine how great would it be if Nelson and Nino were dominating the AHL and we had no room on the roster for them? That's what you call a true Cup contender.

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05-21-2013, 07:20 AM
  #437
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Originally Posted by crasherino View Post
For me, this is the biggest problem. Its perfectly fine (and the right approach) to force the kids to earn their spot. If they don't show they're ready, let them go back to Port and play their ***** off and force Snow's hand.

But, that changes the equation somewhat as to the approach during FA. Do you go out and potentially spend money on a #1 RW? If you do, that takes the Training Camp competition and renders it moot b/c if you go out and spend the $$$ on a Nathan Horton (wishful thinking) the spot is essentially his -short of walking on water, Nino will not displace a $6m/yr player no matter what he does.

And if we don't go out and get the high end Forward, what happens if Strome/Nino/Nelson are just meh during camp? There's no real alternative - the team can't realistically sign Boyes as a fallback option over the summer simply as a contingency plan. As much as Isles fans are dissatisfied with him, he is probably worth more than that.

It seems like Snow and Co. have to make the decision of whether they go all out for a FA or simply let the best young gun win the spot. Unless of course we move KO up to the first line (which I'd rather not), and then end up juggling all the lines, accordingly, but I like having some consistency if possible.
We need to make two moves on the forward lines, then fill the holes from the prospect pool.
Nathan Horton at age 28 is a perfect fit for 1st line RW. JT will turn him into a 35 goal scorer without hurting his own effectiveness. The second part of that is we have to move MM26 early in the offseason, hopefully for a top 4 defenseman. MM26 can not be allowed to play here and go to free agency at the end of next season, his stats lines of multiple 30+ goals and top 25 league scoring will price him out of our reach for an incomplete (being nice) forward. The numbers say $6-6.5MM, our eyes say $3.5MM, and his agent will not accept less than $6MM so we will lose him at the end of next year. getting Horton and moving MM26 sets us up better to balance our lines.
Bails can fill the LW as he is now. If Nino earns a spot he can play LW next to Frans and KO who can cover him.
This makes sense to me and I think Horton, a 6 time 20+ goal scorer is entering his peak years. He is a decent skater with great size and will drop the gloves if required to protect JT.
Will we do it?

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05-21-2013, 08:21 AM
  #438
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We need to make two moves on the forward lines, then fill the holes from the prospect pool.
Nathan Horton at age 28 is a perfect fit for 1st line RW. JT will turn him into a 35 goal scorer without hurting his own effectiveness. The second part of that is we have to move MM26 early in the offseason, hopefully for a top 4 defenseman. MM26 can not be allowed to play here and go to free agency at the end of next season, his stats lines of multiple 30+ goals and top 25 league scoring will price him out of our reach for an incomplete (being nice) forward. The numbers say $6-6.5MM, our eyes say $3.5MM, and his agent will not accept less than $6MM so we will lose him at the end of next year. getting Horton and moving MM26 sets us up better to balance our lines.
Bails can fill the LW as he is now. If Nino earns a spot he can play LW next to Frans and KO who can cover him.
This makes sense to me and I think Horton, a 6 time 20+ goal scorer is entering his peak years. He is a decent skater with great size and will drop the gloves if required to protect JT.
Will we do it?
I don't see a need to move Moulson.

First, we aren't going to get a top-4 dman for him unless that player is also a pending UFA. Even then he might not as not a whole lot of teams have spare dmen.

Second, the Isles are expecte to contend now. I would rather keep Moulson and let him walk next year then trade him for a player that would be a downgrade but around longer. He isn't a Parise or Suter that we could get a huge return on, and our prospect pool is pretty well stacked.

Signing Horton and trading Moulson means that we are still counting on three rookies to step in next year. Not good for a team that wants to contend.

Signing Horton and keeping Moulson means the Isles have no holes in their top-6 and can ease the rookies into the lineup.

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05-21-2013, 08:24 AM
  #439
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We need to make two moves on the forward lines, then fill the holes from the prospect pool.
Nathan Horton at age 28 is a perfect fit for 1st line RW. JT will turn him into a 35 goal scorer without hurting his own effectiveness. The second part of that is we have to move MM26 early in the offseason, hopefully for a top 4 defenseman. MM26 can not be allowed to play here and go to free agency at the end of next season, his stats lines of multiple 30+ goals and top 25 league scoring will price him out of our reach for an incomplete (being nice) forward. The numbers say $6-6.5MM, our eyes say $3.5MM, and his agent will not accept less than $6MM so we will lose him at the end of next year. getting Horton and moving MM26 sets us up better to balance our lines.
Bails can fill the LW as he is now. If Nino earns a spot he can play LW next to Frans and KO who can cover him.
This makes sense to me and I think Horton, a 6 time 20+ goal scorer is entering his peak years. He is a decent skater with great size and will drop the gloves if required to protect JT.
Will we do it?
That would be ideal. Hell, trade MM26 now. Get a 2nd (or, if some GM has been drinking, a 1st) for him and have a 1st line of Bailey - JT - Horton and then have some of the rooks compete for 2nd/3rd line time. Nino on Nielsen's wing and Brock centering the 3rd/4th line with Strome getting a few months in BPort sounds OK to me.

Trading Moulson is more of a mental hump for team/fans as he has been on JT's wing seemingly forever and they're pretty tight off the ice. Cappy dropping him to the 2nd line was the first step in moving on from him, IMO. I doubt that's why Cappy did it (although I'm sure that the thought crossed his/Snow's mind), but being that MM seems to be big brother-esque for JT, pulling them apart on the ice is probably the first step in his exit.

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05-21-2013, 09:31 AM
  #440
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I'd trade Matt Moulson in a heartbeat, if it will improve the team, but that's the question. Fans can speculate all we want as to what Moulson's value is - but we have no idea.

If I could get a top six forward who plays like a Dustin Brown, I'd go for it without blinking. Same for a top four, big, mobile defenseman.

Otherwise I keep him, but not on the top line.

Moulson's a good player, but soft. Playing him with Boyes just exposed BOTH of them far too much, and killed the first line - but I don't have a problem with Moulson in the right role. His job is to score, and he scores. That's worth a lot, to the Isles and to another team.

I wouldn't deal him for a 2nd rounder, that's just giving him away, won't improve the Islanders.

I'm (finally) of the mindset to leave the UFAs to other teams, let them pay those prices. I suspect the answers are within.

This Isles team was among the best playoff team this year. Pitts played much better against the Isles than vs Ottawa and the Isles really out-played them. This is a team that battled for one another. I'm reluctant to break up that team chemistry and battle they showed.

I think between Niederreiter, Nelson, Strome, Sundstrom, deHaan (I'm still very high on this kid), Donovan, Mayfield, Pedan, Pelech, Pokka, Nilsson, Poulin - we have a lot more answers internally than any UFA could bring.

Nathan Horton is a cup winner, he's got a lot of characteristics you'd want in a first line player - but he'll come at a very high price. He's also been known to disappear and show a Boyes-like effort at times. I want no part of that, not at the anticipated price-tag.

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05-21-2013, 10:00 AM
  #441
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I'd trade Matt Moulson in a heartbeat, if it will improve the team, but that's the question. Fans can speculate all we want as to what Moulson's value is - but we have no idea.

If I could get a top six forward who plays like a Dustin Brown, I'd go for it without blinking. Same for a top four, big, mobile defenseman.

Otherwise I keep him, but not on the top line.

Moulson's a good player, but soft. Playing him with Boyes just exposed BOTH of them far too much, and killed the first line - but I don't have a problem with Moulson in the right role. His job is to score, and he scores. That's worth a lot, to the Isles and to another team.

I wouldn't deal him for a 2nd rounder, that's just giving him away, won't improve the Islanders.

I'm (finally) of the mindset to leave the UFAs to other teams, let them pay those prices. I suspect the answers are within.

This Isles team was among the best playoff team this year. Pitts played much better against the Isles than vs Ottawa and the Isles really out-played them. This is a team that battled for one another. I'm reluctant to break up that team chemistry and battle they showed.

I think between Niederreiter, Nelson, Strome, Sundstrom, deHaan (I'm still very high on this kid), Donovan, Mayfield, Pedan, Pelech, Pokka, Nilsson, Poulin - we have a lot more answers internally than any UFA could bring.

Nathan Horton is a cup winner, he's got a lot of characteristics you'd want in a first line player - but he'll come at a very high price. He's also been known to disappear and show a Boyes-like effort at times. I want no part of that, not at the anticipated price-tag.
While I'm in agreement with the majority of your post, I don't see how the Isles can deal Moulson in the offseason. Despite his limitations, he's still needed on this team. The kids may project to bring a better skillset than Moulson, they are still unproven. If anything, I think Moulson will be a hot commodity at the trade deadline. If there is any time to deal him, that would be the time as his value would be at it's greatest.

By then, it would give the kids a significant portion of the season to really see what we've got in them. Besides, I think Moulson is going to price himself off the Island and I wonder if he's finally the one that Snow deals for assets.

As for Horton, I don't want him at all. He's going to get a big contract from someone and I doubt he's worth the money or term that he'll get. When he was acquired by Boston, there were a lot of things being whispered in Florida about him - not very good things. He's obviously talented, but he's too much of a passenger for my liking. The Isles can't afford any passengers on the team.

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05-21-2013, 10:26 AM
  #442
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While I'm in agreement with the majority of your post, I don't see how the Isles can deal Moulson in the offseason. Despite his limitations, he's still needed on this team. The kids may project to bring a better skillset than Moulson, they are still unproven. If anything, I think Moulson will be a hot commodity at the trade deadline. If there is any time to deal him, that would be the time as his value would be at it's greatest.

By then, it would give the kids a significant portion of the season to really see what we've got in them. Besides, I think Moulson is going to price himself off the Island and I wonder if he's finally the one that Snow deals for assets.

As for Horton, I don't want him at all. He's going to get a big contract from someone and I doubt he's worth the money or term that he'll get. When he was acquired by Boston, there were a lot of things being whispered in Florida about him - not very good things. He's obviously talented, but he's too much of a passenger for my liking. The Isles can't afford any passengers on the team.
Horton hasn't even been productive in a number of years either. Don't want to give him a boatload of $$$.

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05-21-2013, 10:36 AM
  #443
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Originally Posted by PWJunior View Post
While I'm in agreement with the majority of your post, I don't see how the Isles can deal Moulson in the offseason. Despite his limitations, he's still needed on this team. The kids may project to bring a better skillset than Moulson, they are still unproven. If anything, I think Moulson will be a hot commodity at the trade deadline. If there is any time to deal him, that would be the time as his value would be at it's greatest.

By then, it would give the kids a significant portion of the season to really see what we've got in them. Besides, I think Moulson is going to price himself off the Island and I wonder if he's finally the one that Snow deals for assets.

As for Horton, I don't want him at all. He's going to get a big contract from someone and I doubt he's worth the money or term that he'll get. When he was acquired by Boston, there were a lot of things being whispered in Florida about him - not very good things. He's obviously talented, but he's too much of a passenger for my liking. The Isles can't afford any passengers on the team.
PW, the things being said about Horton in Florida related to motivation to achieve to his potential. He was a 3rd overall pick, a big, tough, good skating, and highly skilled power forward. Florida expected him to create for himself and be a top 10 scorer. I think that when he was younger the pressure on him made him worse, not better. By the time he was traded, Horton had gotten married and started a family and was much more self motivated. But he still needs a skilled center, he is not a player who can create opportunity by himself (enter JT).
As for MM26, keeping him the whole year means losing him at the end because he will get as much if not more than Horton will get as a FA. 3 staright seasons as a 30+ goal scorer, a 4th season tthat equates to 26 goals and top 21 league scoring means over $6MM per for his name on a contract extension for 5 years. That would be the market, and we will not pay it because we know his other limitations as a player. All I'm saying is that we can have a younger Horton with greater size, greater range, ready to enter his peak years in place of MM26. We can't have both. I doubt we keep MM26 and move him at the deadline if we are in a playoff race if we sign Horton this offseason. That is why we have to move him if we get Horton. There is really no one else out there that can help the 1st line. As the 1st line goes, so go the Islanders.

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05-21-2013, 10:45 AM
  #444
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It's been a week since Barrie lost in the OHL finals, still no word on Mitch Theoret yet.

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05-21-2013, 10:50 AM
  #445
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PWJunior View Post
While I'm in agreement with the majority of your post, I don't see how the Isles can deal Moulson in the offseason. Despite his limitations, he's still needed on this team. The kids may project to bring a better skillset than Moulson, they are still unproven. If anything, I think Moulson will be a hot commodity at the trade deadline. If there is any time to deal him, that would be the time as his value would be at it's greatest.

By then, it would give the kids a significant portion of the season to really see what we've got in them. Besides, I think Moulson is going to price himself off the Island and I wonder if he's finally the one that Snow deals for assets.

As for Horton, I don't want him at all. He's going to get a big contract from someone and I doubt he's worth the money or term that he'll get. When he was acquired by Boston, there were a lot of things being whispered in Florida about him - not very good things. He's obviously talented, but he's too much of a passenger for my liking. The Isles can't afford any passengers on the team.
I'd argue that Moulson is as much a passenger as Horton is.

Plus, Isles fans need to get out of the mindset of "trading assets at the deadline" and into the mindset of "adding assets at the deadline" - starting........NOW.

I know I've been complaining about Moulson for most of the season, yet, I'd never complained about him before. In fact, I was a huge supporter of Moulson's since his first game as an Islander. But seeing him with Boyes has opened my eyes to BOTH of them, and seeing them in the playoffs has made me realize the type of player I don't want on the Islanders.

Let's assume Boyes isn't brought back.

Then the Isles really have ONLY Moulson and to a lesser extent, Grabner as players who are limited. I think Grabs brings an element of explosiveness that the Isles can always use....and frankly, Moulson can outright score, so he should be more of an asset to the Isles than otherwise.

I'm not opposed to keeping Moulson on the team, even as a first line player. But as long as the OTHER winger is more like Matt Martin/Casey Cizikas/Colin McDonald THAN BOYES.

With JT being more of a shooter now, I'd also argue Moulson belongs on a different line now, possibly with Frans, maybe someone else. For Cappy to figure out.

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05-21-2013, 11:28 AM
  #446
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redbull View Post
I'd trade Matt Moulson in a heartbeat, if it will improve the team, but that's the question. Fans can speculate all we want as to what Moulson's value is - but we have no idea.

If I could get a top six forward who plays like a Dustin Brown, I'd go for it without blinking. Same for a top four, big, mobile defenseman.

Otherwise I keep him, but not on the top line.

Moulson's a good player, but soft. Playing him with Boyes just exposed BOTH of them far too much, and killed the first line - but I don't have a problem with Moulson in the right role. His job is to score, and he scores. That's worth a lot, to the Isles and to another team.

I wouldn't deal him for a 2nd rounder, that's just giving him away, won't improve the Islanders.

I'm (finally) of the mindset to leave the UFAs to other teams, let them pay those prices. I suspect the answers are within.

This Isles team was among the best playoff team this year. Pitts played much better against the Isles than vs Ottawa and the Isles really out-played them. This is a team that battled for one another. I'm reluctant to break up that team chemistry and battle they showed.

I think between Niederreiter, Nelson, Strome, Sundstrom, deHaan (I'm still very high on this kid), Donovan, Mayfield, Pedan, Pelech, Pokka, Nilsson, Poulin - we have a lot more answers internally than any UFA could bring.


Nathan Horton is a cup winner, he's got a lot of characteristics you'd want in a first line player - but he'll come at a very high price. He's also been known to disappear and show a Boyes-like effort at times. I want no part of that, not at the anticipated price-tag.

I agree on Moulson. He doesnt fit the style the Isles play. I would move him for the right package and expect him to be gone after next season.

As for the bolded part. Its something that goes unnoticed but I think has a huge effect on a team. Letting the younger players grow and play together in the AHL pays huge dividends for the NHL team. Its one of the main reasons Detroit and NJ have been able to stay successful for such a long period of time.

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05-21-2013, 11:42 AM
  #447
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillD View Post
PW, the things being said about Horton in Florida related to motivation to achieve to his potential. He was a 3rd overall pick, a big, tough, good skating, and highly skilled power forward. Florida expected him to create for himself and be a top 10 scorer. I think that when he was younger the pressure on him made him worse, not better. By the time he was traded, Horton had gotten married and started a family and was much more self motivated. But he still needs a skilled center, he is not a player who can create opportunity by himself (enter JT).
As for MM26, keeping him the whole year means losing him at the end because he will get as much if not more than Horton will get as a FA. 3 staright seasons as a 30+ goal scorer, a 4th season tthat equates to 26 goals and top 21 league scoring means over $6MM per for his name on a contract extension for 5 years. That would be the market, and we will not pay it because we know his other limitations as a player. All I'm saying is that we can have a younger Horton with greater size, greater range, ready to enter his peak years in place of MM26. We can't have both. I doubt we keep MM26 and move him at the deadline if we are in a playoff race if we sign Horton this offseason. That is why we have to move him if we get Horton. There is really no one else out there that can help the 1st line. As the 1st line goes, so go the Islanders.
For the price tag, I don't want Horton. He would be an upgrade, but a very costly one and I doubt he'll net the return of investment. Being in Boston, I get to see him a fair bit and he's a tease. He clearly has the talent to do so much more than he does, yet it just never seems to happen. The fact that the talk out of Florida centered around his motivation and attitude (fairly or unfairly), it just reinforces his 'underachiever' image. I'd rather get a winger who is able to drive the play rather than one who is reliant on their center to be effective. Have we not seen that with Moulson and Boyes all year?

I think you're right on about Moulson's potential next contract. Now that I think about it, you're right... we need to trade him now. Haha.

Also, I think we saw down the stretch and in the playoffs that the Isles don't live and die by their 1st line anymore. I hope that trend continues, but I would like to get JT that elite winger he needs. I suspect that winger is already in the organization.

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05-21-2013, 11:54 AM
  #448
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They are not going to sign Horton. He is going to cost way to much. You really think Horton is going to be our highest paid player? That is pretty much what it is going to cost. This team still works on a highly constrained budget, that isnt going to change because we lost in RND 1 of the playoffs.

Prepare for a stop gap or Boyes.

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05-21-2013, 11:55 AM
  #449
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redbull View Post
I'd argue that Moulson is as much a passenger as Horton is.

Plus, Isles fans need to get out of the mindset of "trading assets at the deadline" and into the mindset of "adding assets at the deadline" - starting........NOW.

I know I've been complaining about Moulson for most of the season, yet, I'd never complained about him before. In fact, I was a huge supporter of Moulson's since his first game as an Islander. But seeing him with Boyes has opened my eyes to BOTH of them, and seeing them in the playoffs has made me realize the type of player I don't want on the Islanders.

Let's assume Boyes isn't brought back.

Then the Isles really have ONLY Moulson and to a lesser extent, Grabner as players who are limited. I think Grabs brings an element of explosiveness that the Isles can always use....and frankly, Moulson can outright score, so he should be more of an asset to the Isles than otherwise.

I'm not opposed to keeping Moulson on the team, even as a first line player. But as long as the OTHER winger is more like Matt Martin/Casey Cizikas/Colin McDonald THAN BOYES.

With JT being more of a shooter now, I'd also argue Moulson belongs on a different line now, possibly with Frans, maybe someone else. For Cappy to figure out.
After BillD's post of Moulson's possible salary demands and your post, I have changed my mind and agree that we should look to move Moulson now. Your bolded comment struck a nerve and you're completely right. We need to look ahead and strive for better. It's a hard habit to break with the draft and asset collection the priority for so long.

Moulson should have value around the league. He's a proven producer and there are very few wingers that put up the numbers (especially goal scoring) that he does consistently. He's still not yet 30 so his skills won't fall off a cliff or so you would think. It would mean rolling the dice with the kids, but a package including Moulson could return an impact player in return. We are deeper at forward and could better absorb his loss. As we saw with the loss of AMac in the playoffs, we cannot absorb the loss of a top-4 d-man. I'm all for it now.

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05-21-2013, 12:09 PM
  #450
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MM26 out

Quote:
Originally Posted by PWJunior View Post
We are deeper at forward and could better absorb his loss. As we saw with the loss of AMac in the playoffs, we cannot absorb the loss of a top-4 d-man. I'm all for it now.
Are we really deeper at forward than defense , looking out a couple of years? I don't have the insight many of you have here but based on everything I have seen on HF, it seems like forwards is one of our weakest points. I can see trying to sell high on Matty Mo and would certainly depend on what we get in return but I be slightly nervous losing that production in the short term.

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