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Prospect Talk PART VII

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05-21-2013, 01:20 PM
  #451
PWJunior
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Originally Posted by BTrotts19 View Post
Are we really deeper at forward than defense , looking out a couple of years? I don't have the insight many of you have here but based on everything I have seen on HF, it seems like forwards is one of our weakest points. I can see trying to sell high on Matty Mo and would certainly depend on what we get in return but I be slightly nervous losing that production in the short term.
With Nino, Nelson, Lee, Strome, and Ullstrom all candidates for promotion to the NHL next season, I think we're much deeper at forward than defense. There are also sleepers like Sundstrom who could surprise. You'd be hard pressed to find another team with that type of forward prospect depth because of it's advanced development.

Other than Donovan and possibly CDH, none of our other prospects is anywhere close to being NHL ready. I feel like d-men take longer to develop anyway, so it's going to be at least a year or two until the big boys like Mayfield, Pedan, Reinhart are even close to being ready.

This is all of course from a prospect based perspective.

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05-21-2013, 02:15 PM
  #452
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Originally Posted by PWJunior View Post
With Nino, Nelson, Lee, Strome, and Ullstrom all candidates for promotion to the NHL next season, I think we're much deeper at forward than defense. There are also sleepers like Sundstrom who could surprise. You'd be hard pressed to find another team with that type of forward prospect depth because of it's advanced development.

Other than Donovan and possibly CDH, none of our other prospects is anywhere close to being NHL ready. I feel like d-men take longer to develop anyway, so it's going to be at least a year or two until the big boys like Mayfield, Pedan, Reinhart are even close to being ready.

This is all of course from a prospect based perspective.
I agree with this, except for the extra apostrophe.

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05-21-2013, 02:42 PM
  #453
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Originally Posted by Dan-o16 View Post
I agree with this, except for the extra apostrophe.
OK I am on board but what top 4 d-man do we get for Matty? I don't see a current top 4 guy we could acquire but maybe I am being too pessimistic about the reach.

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05-21-2013, 03:02 PM
  #454
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Originally Posted by BTrotts19 View Post
Are we really deeper at forward than defense , looking out a couple of years? I don't have the insight many of you have here but based on everything I have seen on HF, it seems like forwards is one of our weakest points. I can see trying to sell high on Matty Mo and would certainly depend on what we get in return but I be slightly nervous losing that production in the short term.
I think its more specifically true wingers that my be lacking. It seems that most of our prospects are Centers. But, I suspect that most NHL forwards played Center for much of their development.

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05-21-2013, 03:05 PM
  #455
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OK I am on board but what top 4 d-man do we get for Matty? I don't see a current top 4 guy we could acquire but maybe I am being too pessimistic about the reach.
You're right. Moulson won't bring anything at the start of the season. At the deadline a team with a struggling power-play could use a guy like him. But I agree - there's no point exploring that now as he won't get significant value.

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05-21-2013, 03:10 PM
  #456
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I keep Moulson. You dress the guys who you think will get you far. Next deadline, if we can send Moulson and other {s} in a trade for big help, IT WOULD BE NICE we held onto him rather than trading him this summer because he might want a big contract.

And I don't believe he's be going after six mill. He knows he has a limited game, as does everyone. If he scores forty goals, even then, he has to know he's benefitted from being saved from the LAK scrapheap by a team that gave him a chance to play with MVP Tavares.

Moulson CAN work.....but his other winger has to be better than Brad Friggen Boyes. If we land a solid winger or one prospect comes through for us on line 1, I'd be happy to pay a thirty goal scorer good near the net four million.

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05-21-2013, 03:23 PM
  #457
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Originally Posted by OlTimeHockey View Post
I keep Moulson. You dress the guys who you think will get you far. Next deadline, if we can send Moulson and other {s} in a trade for big help, IT WOULD BE NICE we held onto him rather than trading him this summer because he might want a big contract.

And I don't believe he's be going after six mill. He knows he has a limited game, as does everyone. If he scores forty goals, even then, he has to know he's benefitted from being saved from the LAK scrapheap by a team that gave him a chance to play with MVP Tavares.

Moulson CAN work.....but his other winger has to be better than Brad Friggen Boyes. If we land a solid winger or one prospect comes through for us on line 1, I'd be happy to pay a thirty goal scorer good near the net four million.

I think he still looked like garbage playing with Nielsen and KO. Those are ideal guys for him to play with. Both are pass first and strong in the D-Zone. Moulson still stuck out in all the wrong ways. No forecheck, terrible along the boards, and lost in the D-Zone.

I love the identity the Isles are taking on. Up tempo and strong forechecking. Moulson simply does not fit into the type of game the Isles play. He reminds me way too much of Trent Hunter and Mark Parrish when they were past their primes.

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05-21-2013, 04:04 PM
  #458
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Originally Posted by Macch View Post
I think he still looked like garbage playing with Nielsen and KO. Those are ideal guys for him to play with. Both are pass first and strong in the D-Zone. Moulson still stuck out in all the wrong ways. No forecheck, terrible along the boards, and lost in the D-Zone.

I love the identity the Isles are taking on. Up tempo and strong forechecking. Moulson simply does not fit into the type of game the Isles play. He reminds me way too much of Trent Hunter and Mark Parrish when they were past their primes.
The thing is, you have a dynamic scoring playmaker like JT, you need a go to guy who can capitalize on his scoring chances best. I don't know if anyone meshes better with JT. They have history and showed some amazing plays EVEN WITH DUMP IT IN AND FLUB EVERY PASS BOYES.

You put a biblically prophesized dream prospect like Nino {if Nino fans are right} or someone like Lucic......the line's dynamics are far better....so Moulson scores more, JT scores more, the line looks much, much better instead of skating with a leak/anchor like it has since PAP left.

So if the line is improved, Boyes removed.....Moulson looks much better.

Further....he plays a little tougher now with a taste of the postseason? Taking hits to get in front? "Battlin' haahhhd?"

I dunno.

If there are better options, I'd love to see them, but given we lucked into Moulson, Viz, Nabby.....I fear a replacement for Moulson would be analogous to a replacement for PAP. I.E.: the best guy Snow could get on short notice for cheap as we've seen happen regularly.

JT and MM need a better winger and we go from there. A 30 goal scorer and point a game phenom need the line made better. I wouldn't doubt if that happened, Moulson nets 40. He may not hit, fight, go into corners, but there's always good news when one guy scores 40 goals.

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05-22-2013, 07:35 AM
  #459
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I'm not sure why we couldn't see if a line of Moulson-Tavares-Bailey couldn't be more than an adequate attacking line for next season?

Especially if any number of solutions could be effectively placed next to Nielsen and Okposo (with Grabner or Niederreiter being most likely).

I'd personally like to see the Martin-Cizikas-McDonald put together and kept together. That's just a doggone nasty line to have to play against.

Then we have to wonder if the team will hang onto Ullstrom and Joenssu? That's Snow biggest decision IMHO. Letting them go would indicate that he's ready to replace them through other additions.

And can Niederreiter and Lee be worked in now in a regular capacity? Moving forward, it might be best to plot Nelson between a combo of Niederreiter, Ullstrom and Joensuu and see what that group can do sharing 3rd line minutes. There'd be some growing pains for sure, but over an 82 game season, that could become a good little group of boys and we know that Nelson and Niederreiter simply must become a part of the puzzle at some point. Not only that, there'd certainly be no lack of size on that line.

I think Lee could really use some AHL time. I believe Sundstrom is in store for a big AHL year next winter.

After that, we've gotta hope that Persson, Kabanov and (hopefully) a signed Theoret can lead the march in BPort. Otherwise, Halmo and Gallant and Defazio are still hanging around and adding character to the depth. Some more signings will definitely be made on that front.

I haven't mentioned Strome yet, because I really, really just can't guess where Snow sees him at this point. That a year of AHL hockey certainly couldn't hurt his development whatsoever, who knows if another summer of working out with John Tavares 'n co. couldn't have him forcing his way into a top 2 role next fall? And it could be as a center or winger, so for me, Strome is THE big question mark heading into next season.

All this said, this post suggests a few possibilities that have little to do with adding players from the outside. I don't see Boulton playing in more than 20 games in the course of the season. Boyes and Aucoin would be guys who see their time here as having passed, although I think it's very possible that Snow will resign either or both if he's not ready to plug some combo of Nelson, Niederreiter, Ullstrom, Joensuu, and Lee, much less Strome, into the line-up.

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05-22-2013, 09:37 AM
  #460
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Originally Posted by Chapin Landvogt View Post
I'm not sure why we couldn't see if a line of Moulson-Tavares-Bailey couldn't be more than an adequate attacking line for next season?

Especially if any number of solutions could be effectively placed next to Nielsen and Okposo (with Grabner or Niederreiter being most likely).

I'd personally like to see the Martin-Cizikas-McDonald put together and kept together. That's just a doggone nasty line to have to play against.

Then we have to wonder if the team will hang onto Ullstrom and Joenssu? That's Snow biggest decision IMHO. Letting them go would indicate that he's ready to replace them through other additions.

And can Niederreiter and Lee be worked in now in a regular capacity? Moving forward, it might be best to plot Nelson between a combo of Niederreiter, Ullstrom and Joensuu and see what that group can do sharing 3rd line minutes. There'd be some growing pains for sure, but over an 82 game season, that could become a good little group of boys and we know that Nelson and Niederreiter simply must become a part of the puzzle at some point. Not only that, there'd certainly be no lack of size on that line.

I think Lee could really use some AHL time. I believe Sundstrom is in store for a big AHL year next winter.

After that, we've gotta hope that Persson, Kabanov and (hopefully) a signed Theoret can lead the march in BPort. Otherwise, Halmo and Gallant and Defazio are still hanging around and adding character to the depth. Some more signings will definitely be made on that front.

I haven't mentioned Strome yet, because I really, really just can't guess where Snow sees him at this point. That a year of AHL hockey certainly couldn't hurt his development whatsoever, who knows if another summer of working out with John Tavares 'n co. couldn't have him forcing his way into a top 2 role next fall? And it could be as a center or winger, so for me, Strome is THE big question mark heading into next season.

All this said, this post suggests a few possibilities that have little to do with adding players from the outside. I don't see Boulton playing in more than 20 games in the course of the season. Boyes and Aucoin would be guys who see their time here as having passed, although I think it's very possible that Snow will resign either or both if he's not ready to plug some combo of Nelson, Niederreiter, Ullstrom, Joensuu, and Lee, much less Strome, into the line-up.
What about our D-men and Goalie situation? If you don't mind me asking

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05-22-2013, 11:04 AM
  #461
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Seeing Torey Krug play for the bruins makes me want snow to sign kitchon. Calvin dehaan has injury woes, and Donovan is unproven at the NHL level. After that we really don't have a PMD. Once viz is gone were going to need a powerplay specialist. I'd rather get one from within then spend 6+mil for a ufa.

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05-22-2013, 11:50 AM
  #462
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Seeing Torey Krug play for the bruins makes me want snow to sign kitchon. Calvin dehaan has injury woes, and Donovan is unproven at the NHL level. After that we really don't have a PMD. Once viz is gone were going to need a powerplay specialist. I'd rather get one from within then spend 6+mil for a ufa.

How has Kitchon proven more than Donovan?

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05-22-2013, 12:01 PM
  #463
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How has Kitchon proven more than Donovan?
Never said he proved more, it's just good to have options. His numbers are pretty impressive even as an overage player

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05-22-2013, 12:07 PM
  #464
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Never said he proved more, it's just good to have options. His numbers are pretty impressive even as an overage player
While it would have been nice to sign Kichton, we have some other impressive defense projects ahead of him on the depth chart. He would have been a long shot even if he did sign. While his stats were impressive, there is a reason why he was passed over one year and was drafted late as a project.

The Isles want to get bigger with emphasis on the blue line (from drafting tendicies), Kichton would not have helped in that department even if he were to make it to the show.

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05-22-2013, 12:29 PM
  #465
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While it would have been nice to sign Kichton, we have some other impressive defense projects ahead of him on the depth chart. He would have been a long shot even if he did sign. While his stats were impressive, there is a reason why he was passed over one year and was drafted late as a project.

The Isles want to get bigger with emphasis on the blue line (from drafting tendicies), Kichton would not have helped in that department even if he were to make it to the show.
immediately yes. You have no idea what the needs will be in 2 years. Kichton is a solid prospect, you want as many as those as possible even if they are a style of player that is redundant through your lineup.

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05-22-2013, 12:38 PM
  #466
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What about our D-men and Goalie situation? If you don't mind me asking
I think the Isles could afford to resign Nabakov and give Poulin a bit more responsibility while Nilsson gets LOTS of minutes on the farm.

Snow needs to get an idea of whether either Poulin or Nilsson is the guy for the winning days to come.

As for defense, I'm grabbing this contribution from another thread...

SIGNED:
Visnovsky, MacDonald, Strait, Carkner, Finley (although I thought he was an RFA)

RFAs:
Hamonic, Hickey

UFAs:
Streit, Martinek

Banging on the door:
Donovan, maybe de Haan

I don't think there's any question that the RFAs will be re-upped. I can see Martinek being resigned since he'd surely be happy with a #9 depth role.

If Streit is resigned, that tells me the team doesn't plan on incorporating or building on Donovan. He's ready for the next challenge, be it here or elsewhere.

Even with this picture above, I think there's room to add another guy you hope could be a #3/4/5 type. Someone mentioned Ballard, should he be bought out by Vancouver. Snow tends to grab guys like that (see Boyes) who may really need a change of scenary.

I don't see him going out and getting a big caliber Dman at this juncture. He did that by trading for Visnovsky and now having resigned him. I suggest Snow will see if Hickey and Donovan can't somewhat come together to take over for Streit.

As for what's on the farm, it's good knowing that along with Ness and probably de Haan, we'll have Mayfield and Pedan being given good minutes. Can/Will guys like Reinhart and Pelech be added there? Pokka will likely be allowed to remain in Europe.

Any signing of Kichton would, at this point, be a major surprise.

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05-23-2013, 01:13 PM
  #467
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Hey guys I curious about some of our defensemen. I know the story on Reinhardt, Mayfield and Pedan. But what about the less mentioned Pelech and Pokka? When should we expect these 2 guys? And what can we expect from them when they get here?

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05-23-2013, 03:22 PM
  #468
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How has Kitchon proven more than Donovan?
Exactly !! At this point in their careers, Donovan is way more ready than Kichton.

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05-23-2013, 03:26 PM
  #469
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Hey guys I curious about some of our defensemen. I know the story on Reinhardt, Mayfield and Pedan. But what about the less mentioned Pelech and Pokka? When should we expect these 2 guys? And what can we expect from them when they get here?
Poliz24

From what I see from Pelech, he reminds me of Hamonic. Plays defense with an edge, and can also add some offense. He was one of my favorite picks in the 2012 draft. Pokka, supposedly is very mature (has played against men for 2 seasons already), and has some offense in his game as well, though smaller than Pelech (6'2" 210 vs 6"0" 190 respectively). Supposedly he was the best defenseman for Finland at the WJC's in January. Though Finland's team was terrible.

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05-23-2013, 04:12 PM
  #470
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Originally Posted by Poliz24 View Post
Hey guys I curious about some of our defensemen. I know the story on Reinhardt, Mayfield and Pedan. But what about the less mentioned Pelech and Pokka? When should we expect these 2 guys? And what can we expect from them when they get here?
I don't know much about Pokka, but from what I've read, he is a very sound defenseman. Like Scott said, he already has two years of professional hockey in Finland under his belt. I don't know the status of his contract, but I would assume the Isles will try to lure him to North America sooner than later, just as they have done with other prospects.

Regarding Pelech, I think he is going to be one of the better steals in that draft class. He was drafted as a shutdown defenseman, but after an increased role in Erie this year, he has developed some nice offensive skills and has even played on the powerplay, I believe. Now, there is seemingly no weakness in his game. I loved this pick and I was shocked he made it to the third round. I can definitely see him taking a Hamonic type development route.

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05-23-2013, 04:34 PM
  #471
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Exactly !! At this point in their careers, Donovan is way more ready than Kichton.
Kichton and Donovan aren't comparable. Kichton is a specialist and a good one at that. I thought he would have been nice to have in the system as he is an option that the Islanders don't currently have, or may not have once Mark Striet leaves.

I'm not saying Brenden Kichton would be a top 4 defenceman or even a conventional 3rd pairing defenceman but he has value in an organization. At the very least he could be Torey Krug who is getting all sorts of pub these days. To be honest I have watched both quite a bit and while Krug has more velocity on his shot, Kichtons passes, vision and IQ are above that of Krug's. I see no reason why he shouldn't be in Bridgeport and if the need arises for a PP specialist then he comes up to play ala Krug. I know Kichton has his drawback but the guy seriously has amazing reads and executes at an insanely high level. He has been making his team better consistently for YEARS (not the other way around). He is not some new breakout player or on a powerhouse that inflates his numbers.

Donovan is no longer a one dimensional defenseman. Maybe as a USHL player and a freshman in college he was offense heavy but he is a much more complete defenceman these days. I don't want to make Donovan out to sound like Larry RObinson in his own end, but if you're comparing him to Kichton or Striet, well he might look that way

My point is that the presence of Donovan and de Haan do not make the signing of Kichton redundant. They aren't comparable, and while Kichton might be a 'gimmicky' or specialized player, he is a valuable asset in a hockey organization if used properly and unrealistic expectations are not placed upon him.

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05-23-2013, 04:47 PM
  #472
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Poliz24

From what I see from Pelech, he reminds me of Hamonic. Plays defense with an edge, and can also add some offense. He was one of my favorite picks in the 2012 draft. Pokka, supposedly is very mature (has played against men for 2 seasons already), and has some offense in his game as well, though smaller than Pelech (6'2" 210 vs 6"0" 190 respectively). Supposedly he was the best defenseman for Finland at the WJC's in January. Though Finland's team was terrible.
I can't speak about Pokka I have literally only seen him play twice, maybe 3 times, but i'm pretty sure it was only twice. In any event it wasn't enough to really evaluate or give you any insight on him, I like what I read about him though (hope most of it is accurate). I wish they would sign him and bring him over to play in Bridgeport next season to start get acclimated to North American rinks/style.

As for Pelech, he is a fiery nasty player. He is the kind of guy that if he is not on your team, you HATE him. He's a leader, a team guy, will stand up for any and all teammates at the drop of a hat. He is a quality defenceman with decent mobility, excellent positioning on D can close off the crease And/or be effective in puck pursuit. His clearing ability seems fine, but tough to gauge as he has been on an AWFUL Erie team. That should change soon, they have a future superstar Conner McDavid and now Ryan Strome's little brother Dylan will be joining them next year so they could get really good really quick (McDavid and Strome could very well be MacKinon and Drouin in 2 years).

Anyway it is true that Pelech did play the point on the PP Unit this season, again part of that is becuase these team was SO bad, but he did fine. He has a big shot(not Dion Phaneuf or Chara) but a good hard shot and gets it on net most times. At the NHL level though, you wont be looking for any offense from him.

Pelech is going to take some time. I consider Hamonic a freak most defenceman of his skillset dont start contributing until they are much older than 22. So that Is why I think Pelech and others (Pedan, Reinhart, Mayfield) will be a while. Honestly I want each of those guys to play at least 2 full seasons in Bridgeport before they are even thought about as potential NHL players. Reinhart may be the exception if he can make strides with his skating and Offense.

Help is coming on the blue-line for sure but before we expect Pedan, Mayfield, Pelech to turn into McDonagh, Staal, Orpik etc. we need to understand that it is going to take a while for these guys to fill out and get strength and confidence and adapt to NHL Speed.

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05-23-2013, 04:48 PM
  #473
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Kichton and Donovan aren't comparable. Kichton is a specialist and a good one at that. I thought he would have been nice to have in the system as he is an option that the Islanders don't currently have, or may not have once Mark Striet leaves.

I'm not saying Brenden Kichton would be a top 4 defenceman or even a conventional 3rd pairing defenceman but he has value in an organization. At the very least he could be Torey Krug who is getting all sorts of pub these days. To be honest I have watched both quite a bit and while Krug has more velocity on his shot, Kichtons passes, vision and IQ are above that of Krug's. I see no reason why he shouldn't be in Bridgeport and if the need arises for a PP specialist then he comes up to play ala Krug. I know Kichton has his drawback but the guy seriously has amazing reads and executes at an insanely high level. He has been making his team better consistently for YEARS (not the other way around). He is not some new breakout player or on a powerhouse that inflates his numbers.

Donovan is no longer a one dimensional defenseman. Maybe as a USHL player and a freshman in college he was offense heavy but he is a much more complete defenceman these days. I don't want to make Donovan out to sound like Larry RObinson in his own end, but if you're comparing him to Kichton or Striet, well he might look that way

My point is that the presence of Donovan and de Haan do not make the signing of Kichton redundant. They aren't comparable, and while Kichton might be a 'gimmicky' or specialized player, he is a valuable asset in a hockey organization if used properly and unrealistic expectations are not placed upon him.
I agree with you ITM, but one thing I disagree about. Donovan will ALWAYS join the rush and think offensively. That's what I like about him. Guys like Hamonic and MacDonald were 2 way defensemen in juniors, yet they were so worried about defense first, they've somewhat abandoned the offensive side of it. While watching Hamonic in juniors, he reminded me of a poor man's Scott Stevens. Playing defense with an edge, but had an offensive side to him where his last junior season, he averaged a point per game. For some reason, he abandoned the offensive side, despite having a really hard shot, and being a good passer. Hamonic luckily re-discovered his edgy defensive style in the playoffs, after a year of that missing.

Donovan will always be in attack mode. I even saw it during his short 3 game stint with the Isles in 2011-2012. And Thank goodness for that, we need that, and it will get him in the NHL. Otherwise he's just a decent 6'0' 200 pound defensive defenseman like MacDonald.

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05-23-2013, 05:01 PM
  #474
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Originally Posted by InformTheMasses View Post
I can't speak about Pokka I have literally only seen him play twice, maybe 3 times, but i'm pretty sure it was only twice. In any event it wasn't enough to really evaluate or give you any insight on him, I like what I read about him though (hope most of it is accurate). I wish they would sign him and bring him over to play in Bridgeport next season to start get acclimated to North American rinks/style.

As for Pelech, he is a fiery nasty player. He is the kind of guy that if he is not on your team, you HATE him. He's a leader, a team guy, will stand up for any and all teammates at the drop of a hat. He is a quality defenceman with decent mobility, excellent positioning on D can close off the crease And/or be effective in puck pursuit. His clearing ability seems fine, but tough to gauge as he has been on an AWFUL Erie team. That should change soon, they have a future superstar Conner McDavid and now Ryan Strome's little brother Dylan will be joining them next year so they could get really good really quick (McDavid and Strome could very well be MacKinon and Drouin in 2 years).

Anyway it is true that Pelech did play the point on the PP Unit this season, again part of that is becuase these team was SO bad, but he did fine. He has a big shot(not Dion Phaneuf or Chara) but a good hard shot and gets it on net most times. At the NHL level though, you wont be looking for any offense from him.

Pelech is going to take some time. I consider Hamonic a freak most defenceman of his skillset dont start contributing until they are much older than 22. So that Is why I think Pelech and others (Pedan, Reinhart, Mayfield) will be a while. Honestly I want each of those guys to play at least 2 full seasons in Bridgeport before they are even thought about as potential NHL players. Reinhart may be the exception if he can make strides with his skating and Offense.

Help is coming on the blue-line for sure but before we expect Pedan, Mayfield, Pelech to turn into McDonagh, Staal, Orpik etc. we need to understand that it is going to take a while for these guys to fill out and get strength and confidence and adapt to NHL Speed.
Erie should be fun to watch next year. Dylan Strome is thin at this point but already taller than Ryan.

Pokka is signed in Finland for next season (could even be 2 years but not sure). Just a guess he stays there next year.

Thought we might have heard some news on Theoret by now, hope they do sign him.

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05-23-2013, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scott99 View Post
Otherwise he's just a decent 6'0' 200 pound defensive defenseman like MacDonald.
Disagree on that, other than their size, I see no similarities between Donovan and MacDonald. MacDonald can't clear his own zone to save his life. Donovan is borderline expert at it. Donovans skating is also better. While Donovan is not a 'hitter' he is much more likely to put a hit on a player when the situation calls for it. MacDonald well just play angles and look for Shot blocks.

Donovan reminds me of Paul Martin (when he was good) and a little Matt Carle. NOT MacDonald.

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