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*OFFICIAL* Windsor Spitfires 2013 Off-Season Thread

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Old
04-14-2013, 02:48 PM
  #251
aresknights
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I thought during Windsors fisrt Cup run, McDermide (?-father was employed by OS) turned down a deal to London that year. The knights offer was a little better than the Spits (i draft pick was a rd higher) but OS allowed him to choose. He took the Spits gig (turned out to be the right call for him) even thou it cost the Sound a draft pick 1 rd earlier. May have incorrect info but thats what I heard and also was in the London paper (not that the LFP is the best source of info )

Again I think Gilmour made the decision to take Domi, so he could reap the benifits of the bounty received. (PM me Otto if youd like the details I heard from Fronts draftroom at the time- kinda funny really) It seems to have worked out for both. Ill be forever grateful as it did allow the Hunters to grab Bo at 9 and secure Domi instead of Gilmour passing on Domi and forcing Mark to choose between the two.

Austion Watson- London wasnt the only team hed go to. Sarnia deal fell thru before the WJs for whatever reason. Watson then let them know since they wanted to move him, theyd better get it done as he wasnt coming back after the tourney. A deal with the Rangers then fell thru and Ive heard Spott wouldnt up the ante to Petes liking. That left Mark to pick up Watson 50 cents on the dollar casue he was the only one left.--again just based on what Ive heard

Import draft trading--- a number of teams could have offered up a deal to get Matta or Zadarov or the pick that was used to take them. MArk pulled the trigger when others maybe wouldnt. Nothing against the rules there

Mark is shrewd and Ill totally agree that some of the higher profile teams had played games in the past but since the new sherriff was hired the SPits are the only ones caught. Did others do what they did since the new rules have come in? No idea.


Last edited by aresknights: 04-14-2013 at 03:12 PM.
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04-14-2013, 02:49 PM
  #252
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Consistently good teams, well London, Kitchener, Plymouth have all at least made the playoffs/had a good regular season/gone deep in the playoffs the past couple of years. I haven't been following Barrie that much but I believe they're consistent as well. Hell even Guelph has held their own.

I'm not saying this is Branch's thinking, but imo the defining factor should be 'could they get close to it by themselves' and not money, popularity etc.

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04-14-2013, 03:00 PM
  #253
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I dont think consistency should really play into it.

Will they ice a solid team and is ownership willing to make the moves neccessary to give them a good shot at winning their way in. Past years really shouldnt play into it.

Gauranteed cash for the league (and therefore all the teams in the league)

Ability to hold the event, hotels, arena infastrucutre, hotels, volunteers, ect....

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04-14-2013, 03:51 PM
  #254
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Originally Posted by Tigers1992 View Post
I'm not talking about what he says in the media, I'm talking about what he has said in the rinks privately.
So he'll admitt it privately but won't address his own fan base... typical Warren.

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04-14-2013, 03:55 PM
  #255
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I don't believe any player forced his way here via trade though (off the top of my head). Rychel always seems to overpay in trades actually.
You've got one example in this very sentence, though in context I presume you mean Sr. when it was Jr (and I acknowledge slightly different because he at least did play for St. Mike's). Other guys who either mysteriously fell to Windsor or got traded there because they claimed they wouldn't report include Ebert, Campbell, Vail, and I heard the same was true of Ho Sang (was he really the 5th best talent last year). Didn't the Spits draft somebody in the 2nd this year that supposedly is mid first round talent? Someone was recently lamenting on the Spitfire threads that perhaps the culture issues with the Spits are perpetuated by entitled players who get what they want by insisting they won't play for other teams...can't remember who that was but there seemed to be support for the theory.

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04-14-2013, 04:00 PM
  #256
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Originally Posted by kaelanstorm View Post
Consistently good teams, well London, Kitchener, Plymouth have all at least made the playoffs/had a good regular season/gone deep in the playoffs the past couple of years. I haven't been following Barrie that much but I believe they're consistent as well. Hell even Guelph has held their own.

I'm not saying this is Branch's thinking, but imo the defining factor should be 'could they get close to it by themselves' and not money, popularity etc.
You do remember London being the 8th seed in 2011 right.

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04-14-2013, 05:04 PM
  #257
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Originally Posted by krazy kanuck View Post
You've got one example in this very sentence, though in context I presume you mean Sr. when it was Jr (and I acknowledge slightly different because he at least did play for St. Mike's). Other guys who either mysteriously fell to Windsor or got traded there because they claimed they wouldn't report include Ebert, Campbell, Vail, and I heard the same was true of Ho Sang (was he really the 5th best talent last year). Didn't the Spits draft somebody in the 2nd this year that supposedly is mid first round talent? Someone was recently lamenting on the Spitfire threads that perhaps the culture issues with the Spits are perpetuated by entitled players who get what they want by insisting they won't play for other teams...can't remember who that was but there seemed to be support for the theory.
"Forced his way via trade" was more at the Watson to London situation. Zach MacQueen had to be traded here because he was going to the University of Windsor. The draft is a draft in name only. First round is all pre-determined recruitment violations.

Kerby should have been drafted in the second round by Windsor - that was all gamesmanship by Barrie, and Warren being a moron and trading down in the second. Ebert, Bateman both were defected players who came here - Ebert might have been cooked to come here, Bateman just wanted to go somewhere where he would play - not necessarily here. I don't know if Ebert was cooked to come here on his draft day though because the draft in 2010 was May 1st - BEFORE the 2011 Mem Cup host city was announced, and the Spits wouldn't have been interested in Ebert if we were hosting. Campbell was a flyer pick more than a cooked deal as he played in the NTDP and solid college offers but his NHL draft team wanted him in the OHL. Ho-Sang did drop to us because he wouldn't report to a couple of the teams - but he wasn't anything special, and didn't get drafted elsewhere and force his way here.

If Branch and co really wanted to clean things up, you'd have to declare and sign on with the league before the draft ie kill your amateur eligibility before the draft so the NCAA card is off the table, as is all of the players leverage to demand special extras to come over. As I said previously USDP players should have to come in as 18 yr olds via the import draft. Similar to entry draft, imports and USDP players would have to commit to the OHL by signing contracts with the OHL, and once drafted the OHL contract would be transferred over to the draft team.

But they won't do this - they'll screw over Windsor and act like "look we punished somebody" and look the other way with all the cooked deals and not care a lick why they're cooked and why certain players will only go to certain situations.


Last edited by Ottomatic: 04-14-2013 at 05:25 PM.
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Old
04-14-2013, 07:15 PM
  #258
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You'll never get the league to agree to sign-and-draft because you'll have dozens of kids who say "I HAVE to enter the draft? Nope, not sure what I want to do, so NCAA it is." They can't afford to lose major talents to college.

I also think it's naive to believe nothing else is going on throughout the league. If someone really believes Windsor is the only team to have done something, that's foolish to me. You don't need proof to see something isn't quite right.

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04-14-2013, 07:23 PM
  #259
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You'll never get the league to agree to sign-and-draft because you'll have dozens of kids who say "I HAVE to enter the draft? Nope, not sure what I want to do, so NCAA it is." They can't afford to lose major talents to college.

I also think it's naive to believe nothing else is going on throughout the league. If someone really believes Windsor is the only team to have done something, that's foolish to me. You don't need proof to see something isn't quite right.

I would rather lose the so called talent then allow these kids and their parents to have total control and power over the OHL teams.Seems like these kids and parents are so used to the NCAA culture of what will this school or that one offer over and above.

I know Ive read how tough the NCAA is on all this extra bonuses but we all know thats hog wash.Maybe the alumni will help the kid out but not the school of coarse.lol.

Seems like these kids hold all the cards over our ontario boys and even the Euro's who are in a draft at least.This IMO is where all the trouble starts and the cooked deals.Something has to change in that direction.

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04-14-2013, 07:27 PM
  #260
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Originally Posted by aresknights View Post
I thought during Windsors fisrt Cup run, McDermide (?-father was employed by OS) turned down a deal to London that year. The knights offer was a little better than the Spits (i draft pick was a rd higher) but OS allowed him to choose. He took the Spits gig (turned out to be the right call for him) even thou it cost the Sound a draft pick 1 rd earlier. May have incorrect info but thats what I heard and also was in the London paper (not that the LFP is the best source of info )

.

From what I recall about the Lane MacDermid to Windsor deal was that the Spits offered something like 2 second round picks plus a third rounder with one second round pick and the third rounder being in the same draft (which was the very next one to be held). Mark Hunter apparently was offering three second round picks for MacDermid, but the picks were in successive years (ie – 2006, 2007 and 2009). Owen Sound wanted to have two picks in the upcoming draft, and so opted for the Windsor offer. Leading to the confusion was that London apparently had two second round picks in the same draft that Windsor was offering the second and third rounders, but Mark Hunter didn’t want to give them both up.

Lane MacDermid – whose father Paul was and is a part owner of the Attack and a former Spitfire player – did have a say in where he would be traded. He preferred Windsor, mainly because that is where his maternal grandparents lived. Can’t blame a teenage hockey player for wanting to be close to his grandparents.

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04-14-2013, 08:02 PM
  #261
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I would rather lose the so called talent then allow these kids and their parents to have total control and power over the OHL teams.Seems like these kids and parents are so used to the NCAA culture of what will this school or that one offer over and above.

I know Ive read how tough the NCAA is on all this extra bonuses but we all know thats hog wash.Maybe the alumni will help the kid out but not the school of coarse.lol.

Seems like these kids hold all the cards over our ontario boys and even the Euro's who are in a draft at least.This IMO is where all the trouble starts and the cooked deals.Something has to change in that direction.
Not to mention a four year full ride to a US school is much more than the education package is worth for OHL kids. Not to mention elite players who play in the ohl do it for virtual peanuts because they never cash in on their education packages. So the players people are coming to see are the ones making the least.

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04-14-2013, 08:21 PM
  #262
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From what I recall about the Lane MacDermid to Windsor deal was that the Spits offered something like 2 second round picks plus a third rounder with one second round pick and the third rounder being in the same draft (which was the very next one to be held). Mark Hunter apparently was offering three second round picks for MacDermid, but the picks were in successive years (ie – 2006, 2007 and 2009). Owen Sound wanted to have two picks in the upcoming draft, and so opted for the Windsor offer. Leading to the confusion was that London apparently had two second round picks in the same draft that Windsor was offering the second and third rounders, but Mark Hunter didn’t want to give them both up.

Lane MacDermid – whose father Paul was and is a part owner of the Attack and a former Spitfire player – did have a say in where he would be traded. He preferred Windsor, mainly because that is where his maternal grandparents lived. Can’t blame a teenage hockey player for wanting to be close to his grandparents.
Thank you for the clarification. It was the right "choice" for him, no doubt.

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04-14-2013, 09:19 PM
  #263
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I would rather lose the so called talent then allow these kids and their parents to have total control and power over the OHL teams.Seems like these kids and parents are so used to the NCAA culture of what will this school or that one offer over and above.
With all due respect, if your not in the rinks with the parents and talking with them, Im not sure its fair for you to generalize to say what parents are or are not doing, thats a massive generalization.

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Seems like these kids hold all the cards over our ontario boys and even the Euro's who are in a draft at least.This IMO is where all the trouble starts and the cooked deals.Something has to change in that direction.
There are just as many Ontario kids who have NCAA commits who 'hold cards', you just rarely if ever hear about them. There currently are 5-6 kids from Ontario that have that abiltiy right now. As they should, they have offers from both sides of the boarder. If your son was in the same situation, you would do the same.

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So he'll admitt it privately but won't address his own fan base... typical Warren.
Hes signed an agreement that doesn't allow him to do so publically. I get that fans are frustrated, but if your going to criticize, do so with knowledge of the situation. He has no choice but to be quiet about it.


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04-14-2013, 09:41 PM
  #264
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Tigers at the end of the day regarding Rychel fans feel he sold them out just to have a reduced fine. We can talk about how he is around the rinks but fans feel used and the fact that spoke of denials earlier then signed whatever it is leaves a sour taste in the mouth of many fans. Winning cures much of this but they haven't done much of that the last 2 years and if they lose their Memorial Cup bid it will come to a head this year and will be very, very ugly.

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04-14-2013, 10:44 PM
  #265
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Hes signed an agreement that doesn't allow him to do so publically. I get that fans are frustrated, but if your going to criticize, do so with knowledge of the situation. He has no choice but to be quiet about it.
Oh, I had no idea about this. He literally can't talk to the media about anything he knows?

I think it's tough to criticize with knowledge if we're getting limited info. I understand the situation, but it's a tough selling point for everyone.

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04-14-2013, 10:44 PM
  #266
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Hes signed an agreement that doesn't allow him to do so publically. I get that fans are frustrated, but if your going to criticize, do so with knowledge of the situation. He has no choice but to be quiet about it.
And we all know how Warren insists on following rules and being told what he can do.

Anyone that has dealt with him outside of a PR perspective know he is an arragant piece of work that would say and do anything to help his cause.

Everyone is saying the same thing, more or less. The Spits cheated. They were ratted out (pssst, a parent would be a third party). They were penalized and the penalty was reduced upon threat of an appeal / lawsuit. Nobody is allowed to reveal any info as to the agreement. I did get a smile and a wink from Dark's partner in his goalie school in Tecumseh when I asked him if Dark was involved.

My original post that started this again asked if the Spits have regressed to Riola style operations and PR. I seldom read the NOOF anymore because of all the cheap shots and not so cheap shots. A thread about Callaghan' Ranger jersey being seen on a TV show turning into a few comments about the Spitfires' drinking escapades.

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04-15-2013, 06:55 AM
  #267
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Hes signed an agreement that doesn't allow him to do so publically. I get that fans are frustrated, but if your going to criticize, do so with knowledge of the situation. He has no choice but to be quiet about it.
I understand not being able to talk specifics. What I'm talking about is taking ownership and apologizing. Just a simple, "I take full responsibility for these sanctions and would like to offer my sincerest apologies to the fans of the Windsor Spitfires. We, as an ownership group, plan to move forward and bring a winning atmosphere back to this organisation."

This is all I would need as a fan to move on from these sanctions. It's over and done with and what's done is done. Give the fans some bit of closure.

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04-15-2013, 08:49 AM
  #268
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If Warren is bound to secrecy - that doesn't mean it can't come form somewhere else. Tigers says every GM knows - he knows, so people are talking outside of WR. The media is not bound by Branch's self serving confidentiality agreement, nor is anybody not officially connected to the Spitfires organization.

The local media is a joke if they don't push the issue, ask questions and demand answers why Sean Day is lost and why the Memorial Cup is lost largely because of the sanctions.

Tigers says things matter of factly that completely contradict what I've heard from others just as equally as matter-of-factly with direct connections. Now maybe I'm being worked by somebody with disinformation I don't know.

Maybe WR, the Spits and the media are holding out hope that the Mem Cup will still come here or something. Maybe this will blow up again in a months time when the Mem Cup is awarded to London. Hopefully anyways. This whole thing stinks and it's getting worse.

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04-15-2013, 08:54 AM
  #269
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I understand not being able to talk specifics. What I'm talking about is taking ownership and apologizing. Just a simple, "I take full responsibility for these sanctions and would like to offer my sincerest apologies to the fans of the Windsor Spitfires. We, as an ownership group, plan to move forward and bring a winning atmosphere back to this organisation."

This is all I would need as a fan to move on from these sanctions. It's over and done with and what's done is done. Give the fans some bit of closure.
Not me. These confidentiality clauses are ridiculous - they're done for both parties to cover their ***** and there should be complete transparency.

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04-15-2013, 09:00 AM
  #270
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Not me. These confidentiality clauses are ridiculous - they're done for both parties to cover their ***** and there should be complete transparency.
May I make a suggestion? You boys seem pretty hot and bothered by this whole thing. Why not call WR up as season ticket holders and request an explanation of the incident and potentially an apology? As a key part of the management team, it seems to me he should take a call from a devoted season ticket holder, no?

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04-15-2013, 09:01 AM
  #271
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May I make a suggestion? You boys seem pretty hot and bothered by this whole thing. Why not call WR up as season ticket holders and request an explanation of the incident and potentially an apology? As a key part of the management team, it seems to me he should take a call from a devoted season ticket holder, no?
Have you ever met him? lol

Not likely to happen.

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04-15-2013, 09:05 AM
  #272
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Have you ever met him? lol

Not likely to happen.
That's not his point. He's saying only season ticket holders matter.

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04-15-2013, 09:12 AM
  #273
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That's not his point. He's saying only season ticket holders matter.
No, I have not had the pleasure of meeting him.

Just a thought. Always been my preference to go to the source when something is bugging me as clearly as it is with a number of you guys. What's the worst he will do, tell you to f off? Been there, done that.

Carry on fellas.....

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04-15-2013, 09:40 AM
  #274
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If Warren is bound to secrecy - that doesn't mean it can't come form somewhere else. Tigers says every GM knows - he knows, so people are talking outside of WR. The media is not bound by Branch's self serving confidentiality agreement, nor is anybody not officially connected to the Spitfires organization.

The local media is a joke if they don't push the issue, ask questions and demand answers why Sean Day is lost and why the Memorial Cup is lost largely because of the sanctions.

Tigers says things matter of factly that completely contradict what I've heard from others just as equally as matter-of-factly with direct connections. Now maybe I'm being worked by somebody with disinformation I don't know.

Maybe WR, the Spits and the media are holding out hope that the Mem Cup will still come here or something. Maybe this will blow up again in a months time when the Mem Cup is awarded to London. Hopefully anyways. This whole thing stinks and it's getting worse.
I do agree The local media is a joke The two principle beat writers for the Star are for the most part are just shills for the Spitfires when it comes to stories relating to the team. If they were baseball players it wouldn't be hardball but lob ball that they play. They fear missing out on the tidbits the Spits toss their way.

Don't know Tigers from Adam but it seems to me that he must have some sort of relationship with the Knights or the media in London. Enough to fear reprisals from them if he puts his name out there with all this information he says he possesses.

Maybe this will blow up again in a months time when the Mem Cup is awarded to London. You can almost take it to the bank that the truth will surface once the Cup gets awarded. However it won't come from the Star writers directly. It'll be like most of the stories you read in the Star under somebody else's byline.

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04-15-2013, 10:05 AM
  #275
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Don't know Tigers from Adam but it seems to me that he must have some sort of relationship with the Knights or the media in London. Enough to fear reprisals from them if he puts his name out there with all this information he says he possesses.
Would LOVE to know what relationship I have with the Knight, and how you diagnosed that

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