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*OFFICIAL* Saginaw Spirit 2013-14 Season Thread

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Old
12-13-2013, 05:07 PM
  #476
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Originally Posted by Luvtowatch View Post
Team has log jam up front as well as on the back end. Had 7 d-men then traded for Graham who plays well over 20 minutes a game. Spirit are better off trading some of these 96's who don't play rather than killing them as HS.
No way! Who wouldn't mine having these guys as healthy scratches. Fantastic man! Got love it.

People just don't appreciate great recruiting and player management. We can give them 10 or so games next year and if they don't perform we have done our part.

We didn't give these guys good packages coming in did we? They probably have the standard stuff.


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12-13-2013, 05:19 PM
  #477
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Great win Wednesday. Did this team just have a few bad games and now back on track? Great opportunity for backup goalie to get a few wins while Paterson is away.


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Old
12-13-2013, 05:42 PM
  #478
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No way! Who wouldn't mine having these guys as health scratches. Fantastic man! Got love it.

People just don't appreciate great recruiting and player management. We can give them 10 or so games next year and if they don't perform we have done our part.

We didn't give these guys good packages coming in did we? They probably have the standard stuff.
Orban is playing tonight. Seems like they are still trying to get him and Holmes games the rest of the year.

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12-13-2013, 08:32 PM
  #479
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I take it these two guys don't get along?

2 - PBO N. Armstrong, 7:32 - Roughing, 2 min
2 - SAG C. Payne, 7:32 - Roughing, 2 min
2 - PBO N. Armstrong, 9:36 - Fighting, 5 min
2 - PBO N. Armstrong, 9:36 - Game Misc-Leaving Bench, (70.6) 0 min
2 - SAG C. Payne, 9:36 - Fighting, 5 min
2 - SAG C. Payne, 9:36 - Game Misc-Leaving Bench, (70.6) 0 min
2 - SAG C. Payne, 9:36 - Game Misc-Helmet, (9.8) 0 min

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12-13-2013, 08:35 PM
  #480
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That game tonight in two words:

Disjointed

Disinterested

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Old
12-13-2013, 08:37 PM
  #481
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Originally Posted by RayzorIsDull View Post
I take it these two guys don't get along?

2 - PBO N. Armstrong, 7:32 - Roughing, 2 min
2 - SAG C. Payne, 7:32 - Roughing, 2 min
2 - PBO N. Armstrong, 9:36 - Fighting, 5 min
2 - PBO N. Armstrong, 9:36 - Game Misc-Leaving Bench, (70.6) 0 min
2 - SAG C. Payne, 9:36 - Fighting, 5 min
2 - SAG C. Payne, 9:36 - Game Misc-Leaving Bench, (70.6) 0 min
2 - SAG C. Payne, 9:36 - Game Misc-Helmet, (9.8) 0 min
They got into a small fight. 2 a piece. The second they get out of the box, they throw down. So no, I don't think they like each other.

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12-13-2013, 10:43 PM
  #482
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That game tonight in two words:

Disjointed

Disinterested
Hmmm, I wonder why.

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Old
12-14-2013, 05:26 PM
  #483
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Payne will sit for 3 while Armstrong gets two.

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Old
12-15-2013, 10:01 AM
  #484
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It's not name calling, it's an internet term.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)

Oh and sorry I couldn't post about the Kitchener game, was studying for finals. Priorities man.

Also, never said I was the guru. But I'm not a troll either.

SIDE NOTE: Still waiting for you to post that article in Plymouth's or Windsor's board.
When you use the term "TROLL" try looking in the mirror. If trolling means stating a fact than I guess we could all be considered "TROLLS" including yourself!

Seriously look at this team for the last couple of years, do you notice that everything that Gilbert says is a lie. Do you remember when he made the comment that players do not learn by not playing? This is not the NHL its a development leauge to help players get to the next level. I've said all along that development can't be achieved by playing one line.

You sit on various boards and over criticize players that get one shift on the ice with your comments. There is a reason why these players where drafted in the first place and its not because they are terrible and aweful as you have said in the past directing your comments to specific players.

Please feel free to post the article on any board you like, its a fact!


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Old
12-15-2013, 10:13 AM
  #485
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No way! Who wouldn't mine having these guys as healthy scratches. Fantastic man! Got love it.

People just don't appreciate great recruiting and player management. We can give them 10 or so games next year and if they don't perform we have done our part.
Let me add to that... Then when they ask for a trade we'll treat them like the selfish, inconsiderate, players they are.

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12-15-2013, 11:09 AM
  #486
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Let me add to that... Then when they ask for a trade we'll treat them like the selfish, inconsiderate, players they are.
Time to shake up the lines and give some other players opportunities to see what they can do.

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12-15-2013, 11:27 AM
  #487
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Time to shake up the lines and give some other players opportunities to see what they can do.
It was time to shake things up a while ago. I don't think things will change in Saginaw. Gilbert does not change, your actually seeing his true colors and his coaching philosophy, which is broken. He has no idea how to develop players but he does know how to promote a player to a U17 or WJ team, just give that player first or second line minutes. What kind of team would this be if everyone was on a level playing field? There are other teams in the OHL that are developing their young players. It's apparent by the way things a run in Saginaw, that kind of mentality does not exist. Change has to come from the top. Its time to get rid of the GM and coaching staff. Put in place a staff who's primary concern is developing players as a whole and changing the whole environment in Saginaw. If other teams can do it so can the Spirit!


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Old
12-15-2013, 12:23 PM
  #488
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Originally Posted by Sonny Crockett View Post
It was time to shake things up a while ago. I don't think things will change in Saginaw. Gilbert does not change, your actually seeing his true colors and his coaching philosophy, which is broken. He has no idea how to develop players but he does know how to promote a player to a U17 or WJ team, just give that player first or second line minutes. What kind of team would this be if everyone was on a level playing field? There are other teams in the OHL that are developing their young players. It's apparent by the way things a run in Saginaw, that kind of mentality does not exist. Change has to come from the top. Its time to get rid of the GM and coaching staff. Put in place a staff who's primary concern is developing players as a whole and changing the whole environment in Saginaw. If other teams can do it so can the Spirit!
Actually, this team is a good team for older players to be traded too. Year after year they give these players more ice time and opportunities than their own drafted players. Most of them were not getting top lines minutes and leadership roles on the previous teams they came from. The Karma on this team has gone south, you clearly see it in the lack of team chemistry.

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Old
12-15-2013, 02:06 PM
  #489
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I'll agree that Paliafito needs to go along with Blum. But I'm still fine with Gilbert as coach. How much of this team is actually HIS team? Paliafito brought in so many guys this season. How much of this team is the team Gilbert wants? How much of it was just Paliafito getting "big names" without thinking about how it would affect the team chemistry?

But also I also agree with what Dom said in the post game radio show. The players have to take responsibility for themselves too. You can't just stop playing and whine and moan and not give 100% or become individualistic just because the coach isn't giving you top line minutes. It takes a team! Let me repeat that, IT TAKES A TEAM! If you are put on third or fourth line as a 17 year old because a 19 year is playing top 6 minutes, play your role and play it well. What's really the selfish move? Giving up on the team concept because you don't like your minutes is just plain selfish. Work. And make yourself better so the when this years 19 and 20 yr olds are gone, you know you'll be ready to step in an take their place with confidence. Or you could completely abandon that and complain. It's up to them. Cause watching EVERYONE play lately, it doesn't matter what kind of line shake ups are made because that is not a cohesive set of players out there. EVERYONE from first line to fourth, 16 yr old to OA has to have a team mentality. EVERYONE.

These guys need to come together, play smarter, and put the work in on the ice. If they aren't willing to do that, even if they're getting five minutes a night, stay in the locker room please.

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12-15-2013, 02:33 PM
  #490
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As far as actual play goes:

These guys (everyone) that last few games are just stapling themselves along the boards all night. The big guys like Payne, Kontos, Moutrey, Kea are doing it too. No traffic in front of the goalie. No big man in front to take the crossing pass. Not hard for a team to defend that.

There's a reason Payne is playing third line time. He doesn't skate hard or use his size at all. He just really disappoints me because he could dominate if he did either.

Alexeev is disappointing lately too. He's just trying to do way too much. He's trying to stick handle through four guys every time he has the puck. He can be a good playermaker, if he ever remembers how to pass the puck.

I will say that Stephens still looks good. Good speed burst although he can get caught up in his own skates sometimes.

The second line so far is probably the least of four evils. Sadowy usually great, although he was a little off last night. Terry always does work. And Kea is a good two way guy. But they're more of a shut down line. Still like them though.

It just looks like this team really needs their captain back on the ice.

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12-15-2013, 02:43 PM
  #491
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That explains a lot!

Do you think coaches and management are aware?

I was wondering if some of the moves this year would be accepted. Found from 95 and younger kids and parents are a different breed negative renforcement is not way to go, especially if unfairly managed.

To manage this I know of one organization that has an old guy totally independent but well respected in hockey circles manage this for the ownership group. That school was able to bring in kids and have them move through system fairly and successfully. Perhaps this may be a solution.

Given the great charity work being done would be a shame if they are being unfair to there NHL prospects and parents that have committed to the spirit.
Ok Undereasy, my head is spinning with all thats going on.

How does the independent consultant/mentor system work for ownership group?

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Old
12-15-2013, 11:20 PM
  #492
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I'll agree that Paliafito needs to go along with Blum. But I'm still fine with Gilbert as coach. How much of this team is actually HIS team? Paliafito brought in so many guys this season. How much of this team is the team Gilbert wants? How much of it was just Paliafito getting "big names" without thinking about how it would affect the team chemistry?
If I was one of the investors on this team I would want the team to start with a clean slate. The last time there was a change the Spirit got rid of Watson and Daniels and after they did that they decided to get rid of the cancers in the locker room. Well by the way things are going now I don't think the problem was Watson or Daniels. The GM and Coaches need to be held accountable for the current state of this team and for that reason its time for a complete oil change.

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Old
12-16-2013, 08:26 AM
  #493
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If I was one of the investors on this team I would want the team to start with a clean slate. The last time there was a change the Spirit got rid of Watson and Daniels and after they did that they decided to get rid of the cancers in the locker room. Well by the way things are going now I don't think the problem was Watson or Daniels. The GM and Coaches need to be held accountable for the current state of this team and for that reason its time for a complete oil change.
The last few games, one thing is clear. Certain defensemen are just brutal. I wont name them because that is not fair to call players out when it is supposed to be a team effort. however Cory Butzin mentioned in his article;The defensemen served up the puck on a golden plate leading to the first two goals, and no one challenged Kitchener allowing easy rebound goals.

The D rim the puck, the wingers have difficulty getting it out. They anticipate the pass and it is intercepted. They constantly run with 5 D while others, including two highly capable rookies ( Holmes and Orban ) sit in the stands. Perhaps its the Defense coach ? I have no idea why they still get the ice time.

The forward situation is very similar. I think points are the main priority for some and not putting a good night for the TEAM.

The chemistry was lost around the time trades started to happen, Locke went down and Paty was terrible. So its hard to say what the original reason is ?

Both Cairns and Graham are team guys so they should fit in nicely and accept their role with the team.

At the end of the day, I feel if you blow it up, there is depth in the organization that would love to have an opportunity. The owners need to be realistic about this and chances of a deep playoff run are limited at this time.

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12-16-2013, 09:07 AM
  #494
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Ok Undereasy, my head is spinning with all thats going on.

How does the independent consultant/mentor system work for ownership group?
Mentor system is not needed if plan is to simply stay above 500 or try to manage on own.

If you want to build an organization of the future then the use of a mentor is there to help owners, coaches, and GM achieve goals. He indirectly critiques and assures some of these pitfalls do not happen working only with those 3. The qualification experience depends on owners directive.

He may support or critique some moves decisions along the way to assure long term plans are met by short term decision.

Not easy not cheap lot of egos to feed.

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12-16-2013, 11:42 AM
  #495
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Mentor system is not needed if plan is to simply stay above 500 or try to manage on own.

If you want to build an organization of the future then the use of a mentor is there to help owners, coaches, and GM achieve goals. He indirectly critiques and assures some of these pitfalls do not happen working only with those 3. The qualification experience depends on owners directive.

He may support or critique some moves decisions along the way to assure long term plans are met by short term decision.

Not easy not cheap lot of egos to feed.
Scott Bowman ?

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Old
12-16-2013, 11:53 AM
  #496
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The last few games, one thing is clear. Certain defensemen are just brutal. I wont name them because that is not fair to call players out when it is supposed to be a team effort. however Cory Butzin mentioned in his article;The defensemen served up the puck on a golden plate leading to the first two goals, and no one challenged Kitchener allowing easy rebound goals.

The D rim the puck, the wingers have difficulty getting it out. They anticipate the pass and it is intercepted. They constantly run with 5 D while others, including two highly capable rookies ( Holmes and Orban ) sit in the stands. Perhaps its the Defense coach ? I have no idea why they still get the ice time.

The forward situation is very similar. I think points are the main priority for some and not putting a good night for the TEAM.

The chemistry was lost around the time trades started to happen, Locke went down and Paty was terrible. So its hard to say what the original reason is ?

Both Cairns and Graham are team guys so they should fit in nicely and accept their role with the team.

At the end of the day, I feel if you blow it up, there is depth in the organization that would love to have an opportunity. The owners need to be realistic about this and chances of a deep playoff run are limited at this time.
Cairns a team guy? I have you watched him play at all the past 3 years? He doesn't get the name Lazy Luke for no reason.

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Old
12-16-2013, 12:45 PM
  #497
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Carins has been one of the hardest working players on the Spirit since he was dealt here. Moved up though the lines and is starting with Kontos and Lodge. Not sure how he is off the ice but he seems pretty good on it.

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12-16-2013, 01:25 PM
  #498
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Trade of a young player doesnt make sense. Lindberg would have had more opportunity next year. Both Kea and Kontos gone next year, opens things down the middle.
Sarnia got him for cheap !

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12-16-2013, 02:29 PM
  #499
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Trade of a young player doesnt make sense. Lindberg would have had more opportunity next year. Both Kea and Kontos gone next year, opens things down the middle.
Sarnia got him for cheap !
What should Sarnia pay for a kid who doesn't play? These boys are not museum pieces although they are treated as such. They should trade DeSousa, Addison and one of the 97 d-men as well.

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12-16-2013, 02:39 PM
  #500
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Saginaw cant trade the 97 defenseman this year as they weren't first round picks. Not to mention they will get plenty of ice time next year on what looks like a rebuilding team with Sefton, Ringuette, Callaghan, and Graham all potentially gone.

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