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Old
04-13-2013, 07:57 AM
  #126
clefty
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Originally Posted by Honour Over Glory View Post
Never did. I remember when Bobby Butler was a UFA and Shero was in on that, just because we don't hear it, doesn't mean the Pens didn't try and I never implied they didn't try. I am just trying to figure out how some prospects end up with certain teams and the excuse often given is - "Well, look at the team, he will likely get playing time right away."

Then it's a player signing with a top 3 team in the league, that guarantee isn't there on a much better, more competitive team. I hope the Pens are in on either Langlois or Laganiere.

But yeah...please continue.
That would be point B - we don't have a monopoly on the market. LeBlanc played his junior hockey in Chicago, maybe he just really likes it there. He's also a natural center which Chicago really wants and needs particularly to fill on the second line going forward, we obviously do not.


Last edited by clefty: 04-13-2013 at 08:03 AM.
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Old
04-13-2013, 08:24 AM
  #127
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Originally Posted by CrosbyMalkin View Post
We can sign all 3 and trade some other players. Kennedy is an easy choice and maybe Orpik or Martin. We could get a nice package for Martin and looks like the going rate for a guy like Orpik is 2 second round picks. Lets wait and see what happens in the playoffs but my guess is Spheroid will keep who he wants if the team is successful. I can't see Duper wanting to leave and Cooke most likely would sign for the same cap hit. Duper most likely gets a million raise to $2.5 million. We have options next season to get under the cap.
We won't have enough money to go around if we just deal TK and Orpik, and moving Martin to retain Cooke would be goofy if Martin continues to play anywhere near the standard he's set this year.

Anyway, back to prospects...

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Originally Posted by deakka View Post
LeBlanc signs with the Hawks. Thats another forward FA gone.
Are we the only ones who sees the gaping hole in the pipeline on forward? :O Management clearly dont

I guess Laganiere are the only good one left now? I see the chanses of geting him as slim tho.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Honour Over Glory View Post
And that also pisses on the reason people say prospects sign with crappy teams to get a better shot. This kid went to the best team in the Western Conference.

I'm not sure what the Pens scouts are doing (never really had much faith in them) but they definitely are not bending the ear of these prospects enough to make them want to sign with the Penguins. With the amount of prospects the team lost and the lack of picks this year, a nice college FA or two wouldn't be a bad "get" by Shero to somewhat offset those losses.
First of all, the Pens DO sign college FAs. Under Shero they've signed Letestu, Lovejoy, Thiessen, Street, DeFazio, Gibbons, Thompson, and just last year, Megna.

Secondly, there is a 50 professional contract limit for every NHL team. By my count on Capgeek (http://capgeek.com/penguins), the Pens currently have 52 professional contracts with 3 that can slide because of junior eligibility, which leaves us at 49.

In other words, the organization has room to accommodate exactly one more contract. So not only is Shero not the only GM vying for college FAs' affections, he also has to be very choosy about who he picks. I imagine Sustr was his main target before he signed with Tampa...


Last edited by Warm Cookies: 04-13-2013 at 08:41 AM.
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Old
04-13-2013, 10:43 AM
  #128
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You're way off base if you think the Pens aren't active enough in signing college free agents.

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Old
04-13-2013, 11:32 AM
  #129
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
We won't have enough money to go around if we just deal TK and Orpik, and moving Martin to retain Cooke would be goofy if Martin continues to play anywhere near the standard he's set this year.
RRP, I haven't ever used the CapGeek calculator, and I don't think it allows one to input "projected" salaries for guys who are unsigned. So anyway, here is a cut-and-paste of my line-up for next year. As far as I can see, we do have enough money by moving TK + Orpik. Also, based on my line-up: it includes Glass for now (but I want to find a cheaper 13th forward and actually play Vitale and Jeffrey regularly), re-signing Adams at the slight bump (he may actually re-sign for less), and re-signing Cooke and Dupers at arbitrary values (Cooke may sign for less if we gave him 2 or 3 years, and Dupers won't swing for the fences, but I bumped him up to a reasonable number). I also included Iginla at $4.5 million, which should be close to what we should get him for. I also showed us re-signing Eaton as a cheap depth #7/8. I TOTALLY agree with you about Martin: he has to stay, has performed great, and we need him for his offense/transition game. (I know this isn't the salary thread, but responding to your comment on this thread about not being able to fit everyone)

PLAYER SALARY

Sidney Crosby 8,700,000
Evgeni Malkin 8,700,000
James Neal 5,000,000
Jarome Iginla 4,500,000*
Chris Kunitz 3,750,000
Pascal Dupuis 2,500,000*
Brandon Sutter 2,100,000
Matt Cooke 1,800,000*
Tanner Glass 1,100,000
Beau Bennett 900,000
Craig Adams 700,000*
Dustin Jeffrey 800,000*
Joe Vitale 550,000


Paul Martin 5,000,000
Kris Letang 3,500,000
Matt Niskanen 2,300,000
Brian Dumoulin 900,000
Simon Despres 850,000
Robert Bortuzzo 750,000*
Mark Eaton 700,000*
Deryk Engelland 565,000


Marc-Andre Fleury 5,000,000
Tomas Vokoun 2,000,000

* denotes "projected" salary for guys who are UFAs/RFAs

Total Salaries: $62,655,000

Free Cap Space: $1,635,000


Line-up based on the above:

Kunitz-Crosby-Dupuis
Neal-Malkin-Iginla
Cooke-Sutter-Bennett
Adams-Jeffrey-Vitale

(Glass or other 13th)

Dumoulin/Despres-Letang
Dumoulin/Despres-Martin
Niskanen-Bortuzzo

(Engelland + Eaton as #7/8) - pairings could be reconfigured based on performance/chemistry/etc.

Fleury
Vokoun

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Old
04-13-2013, 12:09 PM
  #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmelm View Post
RRP, I haven't ever used the CapGeek calculator, and I don't think it allows one to input "projected" salaries for guys who are unsigned. So anyway, here is a cut-and-paste of my line-up for next year. As far as I can see, we do have enough money by moving TK + Orpik. Also, based on my line-up: it includes Glass for now (but I want to find a cheaper 13th forward and actually play Vitale and Jeffrey regularly), re-signing Adams at the slight bump (he may actually re-sign for less), and re-signing Cooke and Dupers at arbitrary values (Cooke may sign for less if we gave him 2 or 3 years, and Dupers won't swing for the fences, but I bumped him up to a reasonable number). I also included Iginla at $4.5 million, which should be close to what we should get him for. I also showed us re-signing Eaton as a cheap depth #7/8. I TOTALLY agree with you about Martin: he has to stay, has performed great, and we need him for his offense/transition game. (I know this isn't the salary thread, but responding to your comment on this thread about not being able to fit everyone)

PLAYER SALARY

Sidney Crosby 8,700,000
Evgeni Malkin 8,700,000
James Neal 5,000,000
Jarome Iginla 4,500,000*
Chris Kunitz 3,750,000
Pascal Dupuis 2,500,000*
Brandon Sutter 2,100,000
Matt Cooke 1,800,000*
Tanner Glass 1,100,000
Beau Bennett 900,000
Craig Adams 700,000*
Dustin Jeffrey 800,000*
Joe Vitale 550,000


Paul Martin 5,000,000
Kris Letang 3,500,000
Matt Niskanen 2,300,000
Brian Dumoulin 900,000
Simon Despres 850,000
Robert Bortuzzo 750,000*
Mark Eaton 700,000*
Deryk Engelland 565,000


Marc-Andre Fleury 5,000,000
Tomas Vokoun 2,000,000

* denotes "projected" salary for guys who are UFAs/RFAs

Total Salaries: $62,655,000

Free Cap Space: $1,635,000


Line-up based on the above:

Kunitz-Crosby-Dupuis
Neal-Malkin-Iginla
Cooke-Sutter-Bennett
Adams-Jeffrey-Vitale

(Glass or other 13th)

Dumoulin/Despres-Letang
Dumoulin/Despres-Martin
Niskanen-Bortuzzo

(Engelland + Eaton as #7/8) - pairings could be reconfigured based on performance/chemistry/etc.

Fleury
Vokoun
Your numbers for Iginla and Dupuis are overly optimistic. Dupuis is tied for 6th in league goal-scoring while providing elite defense, and why people think Iginla would take almost a million dollars less than Doan, I'll never know.

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04-13-2013, 12:14 PM
  #131
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Great right up on Maata jmelm, Very happy to hear he is exceeding expectations.

I also agree with your lineup and would love to see it, but my one concern is Dumo. Does he step in next season into the pro lineup? As much as I know next season will be the point Orpik must move on, I dont feel comfortable handing the reigns over to Dumo just yet. Would be nice to give him at least half a season to merge into it, and I supposed we could put Engo or Eaton in that slot until Dumo takes control

Makes you wonder though if Samuelsson could take the next step and be that guy with the great turnaround season he has had

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04-13-2013, 12:17 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Your numbers for Iginla and Dupuis are overly optimistic. Dupuis is tied for 6th in league goal-scoring while providing elite defense, and why people think Iginla would take almost a million dollars less than Doan, I'll never know.

Iginla knows cap number will go down next season. He have to be willing to take a pay cut to be on a Cup contender like Pens. He made a ton of money in the past. 4.5 to 5 millions a year seems reasonable for Iggy. As for Duper, probably at least 3 millions a year.

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04-13-2013, 12:25 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by jmelm View Post
RRP, I haven't ever used the CapGeek calculator, and I don't think it allows one to input "projected" salaries for guys who are unsigned. So anyway, here is a cut-and-paste of my line-up for next year. As far as I can see, we do have enough money by moving TK + Orpik. Also, based on my line-up: it includes Glass for now (but I want to find a cheaper 13th forward and actually play Vitale and Jeffrey regularly), re-signing Adams at the slight bump (he may actually re-sign for less), and re-signing Cooke and Dupers at arbitrary values (Cooke may sign for less if we gave him 2 or 3 years, and Dupers won't swing for the fences, but I bumped him up to a reasonable number). I also included Iginla at $4.5 million, which should be close to what we should get him for. I also showed us re-signing Eaton as a cheap depth #7/8. I TOTALLY agree with you about Martin: he has to stay, has performed great, and we need him for his offense/transition game. (I know this isn't the salary thread, but responding to your comment on this thread about not being able to fit everyone)

PLAYER SALARY

Sidney Crosby 8,700,000
Evgeni Malkin 8,700,000
James Neal 5,000,000
Jarome Iginla 4,500,000*
Chris Kunitz 3,750,000
Pascal Dupuis 2,500,000*
Brandon Sutter 2,100,000
Matt Cooke 1,800,000*
Tanner Glass 1,100,000
Beau Bennett 900,000
Craig Adams 700,000*
Dustin Jeffrey 800,000*
Joe Vitale 550,000


Paul Martin 5,000,000
Kris Letang 3,500,000
Matt Niskanen 2,300,000
Brian Dumoulin 900,000
Simon Despres 850,000
Robert Bortuzzo 750,000*
Mark Eaton 700,000*
Deryk Engelland 565,000


Marc-Andre Fleury 5,000,000
Tomas Vokoun 2,000,000

* denotes "projected" salary for guys who are UFAs/RFAs

Total Salaries: $62,655,000

Free Cap Space: $1,635,000


Line-up based on the above:

Kunitz-Crosby-Dupuis
Neal-Malkin-Iginla
Cooke-Sutter-Bennett
Adams-Jeffrey-Vitale

(Glass or other 13th)

Dumoulin/Despres-Letang
Dumoulin/Despres-Martin
Niskanen-Bortuzzo

(Engelland + Eaton as #7/8) - pairings could be reconfigured based on performance/chemistry/etc.

Fleury
Vokoun
just use the cap calculator.

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Old
04-13-2013, 01:04 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by sniugneP View Post
Iginla knows cap number will go down next season. He have to be willing to take a pay cut to be on a Cup contender like Pens. He made a ton of money in the past. 4.5 to 5 millions a year seems reasonable for Iggy. As for Duper, probably at least 3 millions a year.
4.5 mil per is more than a discount. It's a price slash that doesn't have any comparables.

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04-13-2013, 01:14 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
4.5 mil per is more than a discount. It's a price slash that doesn't have any comparables.
He's going to be 36 on July 1...he is not a $7 million player anymore. If Iginla asks for more than $5 million a year he's gone.

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04-13-2013, 01:33 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by Big McLargehuge View Post
He's going to be 36 on July 1...he is not a $7 million player anymore. If Iginla asks for more than $5 million a year he's gone.
He's not a $4.5 mil player either.

I think we'd be stupid to let Iggy go if he wanted to stay for Doan money. He's better than Doan, we need everything he brings (grit, skill, RH shot, vet savvy), and we can easily afford him with a couple roster moves.

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04-13-2013, 01:33 PM
  #137
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I agree. I don't see Iginla being cheaper than 5 million and probably more in the range of Shane Doan's 5.3 million deal. I'd definitely give him that.

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04-13-2013, 01:44 PM
  #138
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i think you guys will be surprised at the rate he'll re-sign for.

he's made his millions, this is his time to be the 3rd/4th wheel and just roll with it. Shero will make it clear to all UFAs he speaks with about the unique cap situation next year. Iginla will be signed for less than 5m. no question in my mind.

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04-13-2013, 01:46 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by Karnage420 View Post
i think you guys will be surprised at the rate he'll re-sign for.

he's made his millions, this is his time to be the 3rd/4th wheel and just roll with it. Shero will make it clear to all UFAs he speaks with about the unique cap situation next year. Iginla will be signed for less than 5m. no question in my mind.
If that happens, I'll be ecstatic to be wrong.

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04-13-2013, 01:55 PM
  #140
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i think you guys will be surprised at the rate he'll re-sign for.

he's made his millions, this is his time to be the 3rd/4th wheel and just roll with it. Shero will make it clear to all UFAs he speaks with about the unique cap situation next year. Iginla will be signed for less than 5m. no question in my mind.
a very bold assertion. older players still make a good chunk of change. as far as i can tell Kimmo Timonen is the first older player to re-sign with knowledge of the new cap. and he took 6M on a one year deal - a $333,333 discount from his recently expired six year deal. Patrik Eliáš will be another interesting case this off-season. i guess we'll find out when we find out. as long as we're guessing i'll go with $5.2M.

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04-13-2013, 02:37 PM
  #141
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Timonen is in a very different situation. Philly desperately needs defencemen and after him there is a HUGE dropoff. Both him and management know that so they didnt have any choice. For iggy, it would obviously be nice to keep him but he knows too that without him we are still contenders, so he doesnt have leverage like doan/timonen did.

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04-13-2013, 03:28 PM
  #142
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Timonen is in a very different situation. Philly desperately needs defencemen and after him there is a HUGE dropoff. Both him and management know that so they didnt have any choice. For iggy, it would obviously be nice to keep him but he knows too that without him we are still contenders, so he doesnt have leverage like doan/timonen did.
We aren't the only "contenders" though. If he gets to FA, I doubt that he will take that huge of a discount to resign with the Pens when other contenders will be able to offer more. Just because he chose us once, does not mean he's married to us in any way. If we get him at under 5M per season, I'd be pretty shocked and ecstatic.

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04-13-2013, 03:32 PM
  #143
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A lot will depend on years. Timmonen was for 1 year; Doan was multiple years, but also had more leverage.

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04-13-2013, 03:40 PM
  #144
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We aren't the only "contenders" though. If he gets to FA, I doubt that he will take that huge of a discount to resign with the Pens when other contenders will be able to offer more. Just because he chose us once, does not mean he's married to us in any way. If we get him at under 5M per season, I'd be pretty shocked and ecstatic.
Thats true but out of most contenders we are in a pretty god situation cap wise. Shero has set us up well. Teams like philly and vancouver can get right under the cap by getting rid of their loungo/briere but they still need to add. We trade orpik+kennedy and we are good. Not many contenders except for anahiem and playoffs teams like detroit etc will be able to afford him. Although id have no problem giving him 5 per for 4 years.

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04-13-2013, 03:49 PM
  #145
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Thats true but out of most contenders we are in a pretty god situation cap wise. Shero has set us up well. Teams like philly and vancouver can get right under the cap by getting rid of their loungo/briere but they still need to add. We trade orpik+kennedy and we are good. Not many contenders except for anahiem and playoffs teams like detroit etc will be able to afford him. Although id have no problem giving him 5 per for 4 years.
With the amnesty buyout, I feel that a lot of teams can potentially get under the lowered cap and offer Iggy a decent contract. (Un)fortunately for us, I don't really see any contracts that are amnesty worthy, unless Martin had played this year like he did the last. I'd rather not give him 5M for four years, but lop a year off, and I'd be good with that contract.
As an aside, this is probably the only time I'll ever post on the prospect thread, because I get to watch almost none of the prospects (unless they're in Wheeling and play the SF Bulls or something)...

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04-13-2013, 04:19 PM
  #146
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So are the Pens not expected to sign any UFA College Prospects? do people even know or expect specific teams to sign people or does it just happen?

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04-13-2013, 04:24 PM
  #147
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We are right up against the contract limit with only one spot left, so the main players shero was/is (prob) trargeting are sustr, dekesyser and lagainere, this season we dont have the luxury to sign for depth.

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04-13-2013, 05:32 PM
  #148
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Here at the frozen four final! Center ice tickets. Great atmosphere already

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04-13-2013, 05:55 PM
  #149
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
4.5 mil per is more than a discount. It's a price slash that doesn't have any comparables.
I think if Iginla really wants to stay here, it's the kind of price that he'd accept. I think he understands the financial limitations the Pens have with regards to the cap, and so if his desire to play here for more than this year is strong, something like $4.5 million cap hit on a 3-year deal might be acceptable to him.

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04-13-2013, 06:01 PM
  #150
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I think we will see a lot of 1 year contracts this off-season due to drop in cap. After that, they can get more money on multi-year contracts when the cap goes up in 2014-15.

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