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2013 Draft Thread (Part 2) #8, 16, 38, 55, 69, (94), 129, 130, (155), 159, 189

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04-24-2013, 11:46 AM
  #401
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I wouldn't be opposed to drafting Nichushkin, but it would scare me until he came over from Russia

Maybe having Grigorenko on the team could be beneficial in that sense.

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04-24-2013, 11:50 AM
  #402
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Originally Posted by couture23 View Post
I wouldn't be opposed to drafting Nichushkin, but it would scare me until he came over from Russia

Maybe having Grigorenko on the team could be beneficial in that sense.
Why would you be scared to draft him? This team is 2+ years away from contending anyways. We also see quite a few Russians dominating this league. Ovi is absolutely insane...Malkin is a beast as well as Kovy. Most Russians on the prospect forum are saying Nich is the best Russian prospect since Malkin. You take him and run if he drops to 8-9 spot if everyone else is gone.

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04-24-2013, 11:52 AM
  #403
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Originally Posted by Awwufelloff View Post
Why would you be scared to draft him? This team is 2+ years away from contending anyways. We also see quite a few Russians dominating this league. Ovi is absolutely insane...Malkin is a beast as well as Kovy. Most Russians on the prospect forum are saying Nich is the best Russian prospect since Malkin. You take him and run if he drops to 8-9 spot if everyone else is gone.
Nobody's really worried about his skill level, it's pretty obviously there. That means absolutely nothing if he decides to stay in Russia, though. That's what people are worried about. He could be the second coming of Ovechkin, but if he's playing in Russia it's a wasted draft pick.

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04-24-2013, 11:53 AM
  #404
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Originally Posted by couture23 View Post
I wouldn't be opposed to drafting Nichushkin, but it would scare me until he came over from Russia

Maybe having Grigorenko on the team could be beneficial in that sense.
Might it be their only chance at drafting a top drawer player ?

As I said, I think they have the future depth to take the chance. I don't think Grigorenko makes much of a difference at all however just because he is from the same country. Russia is huge anyway, and Grigs is from the far East. That's like saying you have a guy on the team from LA who wants to play with another guy from Boston....

At this stage - realistically looking at picking in the outskirts of the top ten - I'm moving towards wanting him to fall.

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04-24-2013, 01:26 PM
  #405
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Originally Posted by Myllz View Post
Nobody's really worried about his skill level, it's pretty obviously there. That means absolutely nothing if he decides to stay in Russia, though. That's what people are worried about. He could be the second coming of Ovechkin, but if he's playing in Russia it's a wasted draft pick.
I'm $ure Pegula could $it down with him and $how him why he $hould come over.

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04-24-2013, 01:41 PM
  #406
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Originally Posted by vcv View Post
I'm $ure Pegula could $it down with him and $how him why he $hould come over.
I don't think it's a major concern, but it's still something that could cause some worry. It would completely suck to use a top 10 pick on a player that never played for the team. That's almost roster-breakingly bad.

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04-24-2013, 01:56 PM
  #407
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Originally Posted by vcv View Post
I'm $ure Pegula could $it down with him and $how him why he $hould come over.
The entry-level system prevents anyone from having the upper hand through money.
He could demand whatever he wanted, but he's under the ELS until 27 (25 only applies to North Americans).

The KHL can offer more money, so it's up to the player to want to come over for more than the money.

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04-24-2013, 03:21 PM
  #408
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Originally Posted by jfb392 View Post
The entry-level system prevents anyone from having the upper hand through money.
He could demand whatever he wanted, but he's under the ELS until 27 (25 only applies to North Americans).

The KHL can offer more money, so it's up to the player to want to come over for more than the money.
The best players come to the NHL. Best (and only one I can really think of now) example who doesn't was Radulov.

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04-24-2013, 04:00 PM
  #409
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Originally Posted by Rowley Birkin View Post
The best players come to the NHL. Best (and only one I can really think of now) example who doesn't was Radulov.
Kuznetsov, a top five prospect in the world according to most publications (number one on some lists), has also not come over.
He signed a two year extension that will expire next year, but who knows what happens after.
He made it seem like he was eager to play in the NHL before signing the extension, then it suddenly became an issue and he claimed he wasn't ready when it was really about money and Olympic participation.
Nichushkin plays for the same organization as Kuznetsov.

Just not worth the headache and risk to me since I don't even like him when ignoring contract issues completely.

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04-24-2013, 04:16 PM
  #410
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I recall a highly touted Russian-Slepyshyn ? who was ignored in the draft due to concerns about him coming to North America....

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04-24-2013, 04:24 PM
  #411
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Originally Posted by jfb392 View Post
Kuznetsov, a top five prospect in the world according to most publications (number one on some lists), has also not come over.
He signed a two year extension that will expire next year, but who knows what happens after.
He made it seem like he was eager to play in the NHL before signing the extension, then it suddenly became an issue and he claimed he wasn't ready when it was really about money and Olympic participation.
Nichushkin plays for the same organization as Kuznetsov.

Just not worth the headache and risk to me since I don't even like him when ignoring contract issues completely.
OK but compare that to the large number that come to play in the NHL (particularly top end talent). I'm not saying its impossible, just unlikely and I just think the Sabres situation:

- Picking at the back end of the top 10 and not in the top 5
- Having built a pretty solid group of young players / prospects but with the need of high end talent
- Having stockpiled a number of other picks, including an additional 1st in this draft

means they are in a better position than most to take the risk.

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04-24-2013, 04:59 PM
  #412
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Originally Posted by hizzoner View Post
I recall a highly touted Russian-Slepyshyn ? who was ignored in the draft due to concerns about him coming to North America....
Anton Slepyshev

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Old
04-24-2013, 05:54 PM
  #413
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Nurse, Nichushkin, Ristolainen, Monahan or Shinkaruk and I will be happy.

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04-24-2013, 05:58 PM
  #414
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfb392 View Post
Kuznetsov, a top five prospect in the world according to most publications (number one on some lists), has also not come over.
He signed a two year extension that will expire next year, but who knows what happens after.
He made it seem like he was eager to play in the NHL before signing the extension, then it suddenly became an issue and he claimed he wasn't ready when it was really about money and Olympic participation.
Nichushkin plays for the same organization as Kuznetsov.

Just not worth the headache and risk to me since I don't even like him when ignoring contract issues completely.
Wont be long until some of the old guard in the KHL retires and teams start throwing $7+ Million untaxed to guys like Kuznetsov, Radulov and Nuchushkin to keep them in the country.

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04-24-2013, 06:54 PM
  #415
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Originally Posted by hizzoner View Post
I recall a highly touted Russian-Slepyshyn ? who was ignored in the draft due to concerns about him coming to North America....
Anton Slepyshev.

He skipped the Combine because he had finals and apparently teams took that as not being interested, but he's also not that amazing or anything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowley Birkin View Post
OK but compare that to the large number that come to play in the NHL (particularly top end talent). I'm not saying its impossible, just unlikely and I just think the Sabres situation:

- Picking at the back end of the top 10 and not in the top 5
- Having built a pretty solid group of young players / prospects but with the need of high end talent
- Having stockpiled a number of other picks, including an additional 1st in this draft

means they are in a better position than most to take the risk.
If Russians are elite, they stay in the NHL.
If they're not elite, they go home.
There are basically no average Russian players anymore because the KHL is a viable alternative as they'll get equal or better pay and get to play at home.

I don't see Nichushkin as being elite, so I have no interest.
If you wait it out and actually get him to come over, he'll likely just flame out because he plays with a bantam level mentality.
No thank you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moskau View Post
Wont be long until some of the old guard in the KHL retires and teams start throwing $7+ Million untaxed to guys like Kuznetsov, Radulov and Nuchushkin to keep them in the country.
Well, that's already happening to a degree.
Radulov is reported to make $9.2m/yr.

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04-24-2013, 06:56 PM
  #416
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Originally Posted by Awwufelloff View Post
Why would you be scared to draft him? This team is 2+ years away from contending anyways. We also see quite a few Russians dominating this league. Ovi is absolutely insane...Malkin is a beast as well as Kovy. Most Russians on the prospect forum are saying Nich is the best Russian prospect since Malkin. You take him and run if he drops to 8-9 spot if everyone else is gone.
I'm not scared because he might not come over in 2-3 years. I'm scared because he could potentially never come over.

Grigorenko was safer because he was already in NA.

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04-24-2013, 06:58 PM
  #417
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Originally Posted by Rowley Birkin View Post
Might it be their only chance at drafting a top drawer player ?

As I said, I think they have the future depth to take the chance. I don't think Grigorenko makes much of a difference at all however just because he is from the same country. Russia is huge anyway, and Grigs is from the far East. That's like saying you have a guy on the team from LA who wants to play with another guy from Boston....

At this stage - realistically looking at picking in the outskirts of the top ten - I'm moving towards wanting him to fall.
No...not at all because there is a professional league in Russia and less Russians in the NHL than Americans.

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04-24-2013, 07:02 PM
  #418
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Well, that's already happening to a degree.
Radulov is reported to make $9.2m/yr.
And look where he's playing.

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04-24-2013, 07:07 PM
  #419
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Originally Posted by jfb392 View Post
Anton Slepyshev.

He skipped the Combine because he had finals and apparently teams took that as not being interested, but he's also not that amazing or anything.

If Russians are elite, they stay in the NHL.
If they're not elite, they go home.
There are basically no average Russian players anymore because the KHL is a viable alternative as they'll get equal or better pay and get to play at home.

I don't see Nichushkin as being elite, so I have no interest.
If you wait it out and actually get him to come over, he'll likely just flame out because he plays with a bantam level mentality.
No thank you.

Well, that's already happening to a degree.
Radulov is reported to make $9.2m/yr.

Do you sit down and watch Nichushkin play in the KHL?

You basically said the same about Yakupov last year and he is looking like an absolute stud in Edmonton at 19 years old.

Judging him as a 17 year old in the world juniors and 3 games in the unders 18s is a small sample size isn't it?

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04-24-2013, 09:30 PM
  #420
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Do you sit down and watch Nichushkin play in the KHL?
Yes, I watched a few games during the playoffs.
He was the same perimeter player that enjoys aimlessly controlling the puck.
I get that people like him because he's massive and can skate, but I just find him to be fundamentally flawed.

Quote:
You basically said the same about Yakupov last year and he is looking like an absolute stud in Edmonton at 19 years old.
I don't know, he's never really wowed me in my limited viewings of him in Edmonton.
He's still a small, one dimensional lackadaisical player that toe picks for no apparent reason.

I think he's lucky he's in Edmonton so that he doesn't have to be a star by himself.

Quote:
Judging him as a 17 year old in the world juniors and 3 games in the unders 18s is a small sample size isn't it?
Let's go in order of my viewings:
2011 WJAC - Limited to no ice time.
2012 U17 - First time seeing him play in a legitimate role and while you could see all the tools on display, he had an advantage over just about everyone because of his size. He looked like a poor man's Malkin without the special sense.
2012 U18 - Limited ice time.
2012 SSS - This is where the tunnel vision part of his game started to become apparent. He just kept trying to do the same thing, which became his "move". I think he had a whopping one pass attempt the whole series. His game was exactly the same as the U17's, except he no longer had a huge advantage.
VHL games - On YouTube, all I really took away with it is that the VHL is awful. Little structure to the game and little skill. Essentially useless viewings.
2013 U20 - Good for him to make the team, but again, it's the same **** from him.
2013 playoffs - already talked about this.
2013 U18 - Worst player on the ice two of three games and incredibly selfish in the other. I don't know if he doesn't care because he just lost in the KHL Finals or what, but he hasn't even shown flashes. Easily checked and dispossessed by players nearly half a foot shorter than he is and not even driving the scoring areas. Best chance was probably his first shift and he's done basically nothing since. Great showing from the captain of the team.

I also downloaded an MHL game from the 11-12 season but forget where exactly it'd go on the timeline, as it's now lost on my old laptop.
He also had limited ice time in that game though.

The tournament that really shot him up the rankings was the U18 Five Nations, which he led in scoring.
I didn't watch it, but it's a second tier tournament and a level which he'd have a huge advantage at.

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04-24-2013, 09:43 PM
  #421
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What do you all think it'll take to trade up from where Buffalo finishes to pick 4-6?

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04-24-2013, 09:48 PM
  #422
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What do you all think it'll take to trade up from where Buffalo finishes to pick 4-6?
I don't think any team with picks 1 thru 5 will trade it away for any amount of overpayment. Pick 6, well probably the two 1st round picks and probably a top prospect.

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04-24-2013, 09:54 PM
  #423
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The best reference point is the 2008 draft.

Isles trade #5 to Toronto for #7 and choice of (2008 2nd + 2009 3rd) or (2008 3rd + 2009 2nd). Isle chose the second package.

Isles trade #7 to Nashville for #9 and #40.

So in total, to drop from 5 to 9, they picked up 2 2nds and a 3rd. And one of those 2nds was for the following year.

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04-24-2013, 10:14 PM
  #424
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The best reference point is the 2008 draft.

Isles trade #5 to Toronto for #7 and choice of (2008 2nd + 2009 3rd) or (2008 3rd + 2009 2nd). Isle chose the second package.

Isles trade #7 to Nashville for #9 and #40.

So in total, to drop from 5 to 9, they picked up 2 2nds and a 3rd. And one of those 2nds was for the following year.
Too rich for my blood. We have a great opportunity to stock our cupboard for a long time. I would rather hold at 8 or 9 and hope one of Nurse or Monahan slip to us.

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04-24-2013, 10:39 PM
  #425
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Too rich for my blood. We have a great opportunity to stock our cupboard for a long time. I would rather hold at 8 or 9 and hope one of Nurse or Monahan slip to us.
Kris Baker ‏@SabresProspects 6m

Some earlier mock drafts I looked at had Elias Lindholm outside of the top-10. I'm not feeling it.

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