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Old
04-17-2013, 09:43 AM
  #151
Kegger
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Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
Who are the best bottom pairs in the east? I always openly admit I do not watch the other teams. There are only 15 teams.

You think our defense sucks. How do you take into consideration their collective offensive production when coming to that conclusion. It sure seems like you ignore what they do outside their zone.
Lets look at the best teams in the East.
3rd pairings as of recent games...

Pitt: Despres-Eaton
Boston: Ference-McQuaid
Montreal: Beaulieu-Drewiske
Toronto: Franson-Fraser?
Ottawa: Gryba-Cowen
Caps: Hillen-Oleksy

Which 3rd pairing would we rather have?

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04-17-2013, 09:48 AM
  #152
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Originally Posted by Kegger View Post
Lets look at the best teams in the East.
3rd pairings as of recent games...

Pitt: Despres-Eaton
Boston: Ference-McQuaid
Montreal: Beaulieu-Drewiske
Toronto: Franson-Fraser?
Ottawa: Gryba-Cowen
Caps: Hillen-Oleksy

Which 3rd pairing would we rather have?
Boston's.

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Old
04-17-2013, 09:57 AM
  #153
RandyHolt
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Thanks all. I needed names.

Ok Boston is the early winner.

Can someone characterize why they are the best? Defensive stalwarts, mobility, puck moving, hitters, tough play / willingness to drop the gloves; or just all of the above?

I remember Ferrence was one scrappy dude. McQuaid looked a crazed bad ass going after Hendricks recently.

Are they by chance, buried on a deep team and may be top 4 guys on many other teams - something NBTW touched on.

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04-17-2013, 10:17 AM
  #154
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Some basics:

Ferrence 2.25M | Quaid 1.5M

.27 pts/G in 19TOI | .15 in 14TOI

6th | 4th on the team in PIMs

1.9 hits/G | 2.03

25 Gives 3 Takes | 6G 3T

Ferrence is the mover and Quaid is the homer. They seem to be a somewhat well paid, and rugged bottom pairing, looking at PIMs and hits. They also seem to complement each others games.

left shot right shot, boston is on the program

Quaid looks like a rock a 6'4 kid with only 6 gives.


Last edited by RandyHolt: 04-17-2013 at 10:25 AM.
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Old
04-17-2013, 10:40 AM
  #155
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To Compare

Hillen .65M | Oleksy .541M (the 1 carried for the comedic value)

.38 pts/G in 18TOI | .39 in 17TOI

6 minors in 18 games | 6th on the team in PIMs

.5 hits/G | 2.2

9 Gives 0 Takes | 11G 5T

Clearly Hillen brings a softer game than Ference, but more scoring. Oleksy seems a possible comparable for Quaid but brings a lot more point production.

Bostons BP has more experience, a lot more rugged play, but also totes a 3x higher cap hit for it. As it is, salary aside, what stands out to me is the point production of our lowest paid Dmen. When I say lowest paid, its not even close.

George has been building his vision based on offensive production via mobile puck movers. Oates has been saying all along our offense starts on D.

Cap hits considered or aside, I suspect our bottom pairing has to be among the most productive offensively. Dare I think league wide? Sure its a small sample size, but all that matters is right now.

If Boston's bottom pair is better, is it because they are a more rough and tumble pairing? Or is their effectiveness related to that style of play?


Last edited by RandyHolt: 04-17-2013 at 10:46 AM.
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04-17-2013, 10:42 AM
  #156
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Weren't there people here screaming about Hillen and Oleksy both being overpaid? Calling them fringe NHL players, career AHLers?

Now I'm not saying they're one of the best pairings or whatever, but they have done an admirable job.

And if they keep this up, they're a friggin' bargain. Both of 'em.

In George we trust?

In George we trust.

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04-17-2013, 10:57 AM
  #157
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F/Q combined +8 (6 & 2)
O/H combined +17 (9 & 8)

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04-17-2013, 11:16 AM
  #158
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We shouldn't look into such a good stats sheet so deep. Better to temper our expectations for now... Because it's the Caps (c)

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04-17-2013, 11:25 AM
  #159
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F/Q combined +8 (6 & 2)
O/H combined +17 (9 & 8)
Two words, plus fifty...

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Old
04-17-2013, 11:32 AM
  #160
NobodyBeatsTheWiz
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Originally Posted by tycoonheart View Post
Weren't there people here screaming about Hillen and Oleksy both being overpaid? Calling them fringe NHL players, career AHLers?

Now I'm not saying they're one of the best pairings or whatever, but they have done an admirable job.

And if they keep this up, they're a friggin' bargain. Both of 'em.

In George we trust?

In George we trust.
Well, Oleksy has been a career AHLer.

I don't recall anyone calling Hillen either overpaid or a career AHLer, only complaining about how many penalties he took, how he got manhandled in dirty areas, and how he turned the puck over frequently.

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04-17-2013, 11:54 AM
  #161
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Two words, plus fifty...
LOL!! Point taken, but they're not paired with god-mode Green in BB's offensive flying circus. We're talking < a full season for Olesky, time out for Hillen's injury and AHL scrub paired with x-NYI scrub - for the most part.

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04-17-2013, 12:10 PM
  #162
RandyHolt
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Our defense may be over achieving but all seem to be believing in the system. Even Green almost mentally blocked to bring offense in recent years, has more goals than assists.

Carlson has taken off his hibernation suit. Oleksy is leading our defense in plus minus and PIMs - who called that one.

Hillen yeesh its seems like he scores almost every game lately. I was wrong on him, let me eat some serious crow for bashing him in a tiny sample size not long ago.

With Sarge out of the lineup, a lot more offense being brought from that left side in the past few weeks, its like we are a different team.

If we make the loffs, rest assured our BP will be targeted. Hillen is going to take his lumps. Green too. But now we can move Kundratek and Orlov into the lineup and hopefully not miss a beat.

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04-17-2013, 12:15 PM
  #163
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A lot of pieces that have been missing for the last decade-plus are coming together. I've been getting a feeling the last few weeks, and I hope it isn't gas.

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04-17-2013, 12:20 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
Our defense may be over achieving but all seem to be believing in the system. Even Green almost mentally blocked to bring offense in recent years, has more goals than assists.

Carlson has taken off his hibernation suit. Oleksy is leading our defense in plus minus and PIMs - who called that one.

Hillen yeesh its seems like he scores almost every game lately. I was wrong on him, let me eat some serious crow for bashing him in a tiny sample size not long ago.

With Sarge out of the lineup, a lot more offense being brought from that left side in the past few weeks, its like we are a different team.

If we make the loffs, rest assured our BP will be targeted. Hillen is going to take his lumps. Green too. But now we can move Kundratek and Orlov into the lineup and hopefully not miss a beat.

it's a shame his pre-TDL showcasing didnt pan out....

i'm afraid this team is stuck with that terrible cap hit for the duration.

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04-17-2013, 12:22 PM
  #165
AlexBrovechkin8
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I'm struggling to understand how some of you are taking the offensive production out of the equation when evaluating our defense. Makes zero sense to me. Why are you not evaluating their entire contributions? Or again, are we focusing solely on the aspect that makes your opinion seem correct?

And whose to say the defense is overachieving? Maybe they're playing to their ability now that the line up has been set, they're healthy, and they know and are comfortable in their roles.

From what I understand, Hillen was very underrated in Nashville which is no surprise considering who he was playing behind (Weber, Suter, etc). Oleksy has rarely looked like a career AHLer and looks very comfortable in his role. Sure, he's going to get burned and make mistakes but that happens to pretty much everyone at some point. Alzner, Carlson, and Green are playing to their paychecks. The only one I'd say is overachieving seems to be Erksine. His improvement has been a revelation.

Hell, the PK is 8-9 in it's last 4 games. Something has clicked. Let's see if it lasts.

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04-17-2013, 12:29 PM
  #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
Our defense may be over achieving but all seem to be believing in the system. Even Green almost mentally blocked to bring offense in recent years, has more goals than assists.
Carlson has taken off his hibernation suit. Oleksy is leading our defense in plus minus and PIMs - who called that one.

Hillen yeesh its seems like he scores almost every game lately. I was wrong on him, let me eat some serious crow for bashing him in a tiny sample size not long ago.

With Sarge out of the lineup, a lot more offense being brought from that left side in the past few weeks, its like we are a different team.

If we make the loffs, rest assured our BP will be targeted. Hillen is going to take his lumps. Green too. But now we can move Kundratek and Orlov into the lineup and hopefully not miss a beat.
Green has made noticably better decisions with the puck the past several games. In front of the net, and more appropriate Flip&Chip/D2D exiting the zone..much less Ice Capades/Dying Swan.

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04-17-2013, 12:34 PM
  #167
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Originally Posted by g00n View Post
A lot of pieces that have been missing for the last decade-plus are coming together. I've been getting a feeling the last few weeks, and I hope it isn't gas.
LOL... the thing about this roster right now is that there are no passengers, no spectators. Everyone is doing their job, if its grinding, playmaking, scoring, crease clearing, starting breakouts, whatever. The 4th line is playing like a 4th line should - no Wolski's or MarJo's out of place there. The 2nd line is a legit scoring threat with, again, no Wolskis to stand around and watch everyone else compete. The the top line is dominating the score sheet like they need to.

No passengers, all 20 guys pulling their own weight, is the best thing I've seen from the Caps in about 15 years, since the 98 Cup finals run.

We can debate all we want about where an individual could be upgraded, or who is overpaid, but right now everyone is on board and working hard. Me Likey!

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04-17-2013, 12:35 PM
  #168
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Another way of putting it: They finally got this part right...

Washington Capitals Scratches
Player Detail
J Ward Knee Injury
J Schultz Scratched
W Wolski Scratched
B Laich Groin

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04-17-2013, 12:37 PM
  #169
bonzilla
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Interesting if Sarge even gets a sweater if someone goes to IR.

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04-17-2013, 12:38 PM
  #170
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Originally Posted by AlexBrovechkin8 View Post
I'm struggling to understand how some of you are taking the offensive production out of the equation when evaluating our defense. Makes zero sense to me. Why are you not evaluating their entire contributions? Or again, are we focusing solely on the aspect that makes your opinion seem correct?

And whose to say the defense is overachieving? Maybe they're playing to their ability now that the line up has been set, they're healthy, and they know and are comfortable in their roles.

From what I understand, Hillen was very underrated in Nashville which is no surprise considering who he was playing behind (Weber, Suter, etc). Oleksy has rarely looked like a career AHLer and looks very comfortable in his role. Sure, he's going to get burned and make mistakes but that happens to pretty much everyone at some point. Alzner, Carlson, and Green are playing to their paychecks. The only one I'd say is overachieving seems to be Erksine. His improvement has been a revelation.

Hell, the PK is 8-9 in it's last 4 games. Something has clicked. Let's see if it lasts.
Their offense outside of Green and Carlson is an outlier. It's not repeatable or sustainable in a bottom-pairing role. If Hillen were in a top-4 role all year with PP time, he could probably be a 5-25 guy, as evidenced by his time on Long Island. Even so, almost all of his offensive production has come in the last 5 games. It's a hot streak.

Oleksy has no history of offensive production, even in the minors.

Erskine and Alzner aren't producing much of anything offensively at all.

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04-17-2013, 12:50 PM
  #171
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
Their offense outside of Green and Carlson is an outlier. It's not repeatable or sustainable in a bottom-pairing role. If Hillen were in a top-4 role all year with PP time, he could probably be a 5-25 guy, as evidenced by his time on Long Island. Even so, almost all of his offensive production has come in the last 5 games. It's a hot streak.

Oleksy has no history of offensive production, even in the minors.

Erskine and Alzner aren't producing much of anything offensively at all.
Yeah no chance players can develop.

Dmen hit their peak at 20 and its all downhill from there ...at least some on HF tend to think so.

Perhaps none were ever given a fair chance to show what they have? Perhaps they just needed confidence and trust? We saw what it has done with Ovechkin whom pretty much everyone thought was washed up.

I think whoever brought up the point about the 3rd pairing production relative to their cap hit is onto something.

I agree with Kicksave...the whole team is pulling their weight. No passengers. They are standing up for each other and to a man finishing their checks.

Not 2 weeks ago I saw Hillen being matched against Tavares and frustrating the heck out of him.



Did you all notice last night that the Caps crowd didn't serenade Ovechkin with "MVP" chants after he scored a goal? They DID however give him the "Ovie, Ovie" chant when he stood up for Backstrom.

Even the fans in the building, many of them the new "Rock the Red" generation, are picking up the scent.

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04-17-2013, 12:50 PM
  #172
AlexBrovechkin8
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
Their offense outside of Green and Carlson is an outlier. It's not repeatable or sustainable in a bottom-pairing role. If Hillen were in a top-4 role all year with PP time, he could probably be a 5-25 guy, as evidenced by his time on Long Island. Even so, almost all of his offensive production has come in the last 5 games. It's a hot streak.

Oleksy has no history of offensive production, even in the minors.

Erskine and Alzner aren't producing much of anything offensively at all.
So essentially you're saying the only one out-performing his norm is Hillen, no?

Hillen will do well against speed guys, i.e. Tavares, St. Louis, etc and struggle against bigger physical forwards.

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04-17-2013, 12:54 PM
  #173
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LOL... the thing about this roster right now is that there are no passengers, no spectators. Everyone is doing their job, if its grinding, playmaking, scoring, crease clearing, starting breakouts, whatever. The 4th line is playing like a 4th line should - no Wolski's or MarJo's out of place there. The 2nd line is a legit scoring threat with, again, no Wolskis to stand around and watch everyone else compete. The the top line is dominating the score sheet like they need to.

No passengers, all 20 guys pulling their own weight, is the best thing I've seen from the Caps in about 15 years, since the 98 Cup finals run.

We can debate all we want about where an individual could be upgraded, or who is overpaid, but right now everyone is on board and working hard. Me Likey!
This is a very good way of putting it. We're not putting out Ovie's line and then hoping the other three don't screw it up before he gets back out there. Everyone knows their role, seems comfortable in it, and is actively looking to contribute. It makes them much more difficult to play against when you have two lines that can score every shift, one line that can contribute offensively, and one line that wants to run you into the ice every shift. All four lines are engaged defensively as well. One of Oates' biggest accomplishments is his ability to get everyone to buy in and know their roles.

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04-17-2013, 12:58 PM
  #174
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Originally Posted by AlexBrovechkin8 View Post
This is a very good way of putting it. We're not putting out Ovie's line and then hoping the other three don't screw it up before he gets back out there. Everyone knows their role, seems comfortable in it, and is actively looking to contribute. It makes them much more difficult to play against when you have two lines that can score every shift, one line that can contribute offensively, and one line that wants to run you into the ice every shift. All four lines are engaged defensively as well. One of Oates' biggest accomplishments is his ability to get everyone to buy in and know their roles.
In terms of compete level this team is the best since the 98 team as KSD said.

There is a huge difference tho is that this one has serious game breakers.

They are getting in the faces of the opposition and mixing it up.

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04-17-2013, 01:10 PM
  #175
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Interesting if Sarge even gets a sweater if someone goes to IR.
i doubt it....

unless orlov is playing suspect in chocolate town, methinks he'd be first in line for a sweater should a current D-man go down.

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