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Has Marc Bergevin made his first mistake as a Habs GM?

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Old
04-17-2013, 01:42 PM
  #226
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Originally Posted by LePoche69 View Post
There's no need to panic, I just think that d-fense needs another strong presence because next year, beside PK, there's fewer and fewer chances Markov will be that presence beside of on the PP. And nobody significant is coming for the next 1-3 years. Adding someone like Yandl for those 1-3 years would be a very wise move.

What the actual d-corpse accomplished this year, as you pointed out, is only half-relevent to me since it is a 48 games season. That very same d-fense could very well have the Habs played for .450 the rest of the way given their age (markov-Bouillon) and the fatigue (Gorges). In fact, that would have been what a lot of people envisionned at the start of the year. That d-fense was suspect then, and to me, it remains suspect over a 82 games seasons. Adding a kind of Yandl would only make sense to me.
Yandle not Yandl

The problem with Yandle is that he will cost Plekanec or Eller plus maybe other assets. So you get another PMD and open up a hole at center, st least sin the short term.

I think a longer schedule helps guys like Markov, as there would be more rest between games and not a bunch of 4 games in 6 days stretches.

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04-17-2013, 01:43 PM
  #227
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ask a shark fan how valuable murray was.solid reg season guy who did jack in the playoffs.
Probably like our Habs fans who were questioning the effectiveness of Emelin, Gionta, DD, Markov, Price etc.

We are just fans with an opinion that has a 50% chance of being right or wrong.

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Old
04-17-2013, 01:49 PM
  #228
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Great posts in this thread.

With the present makeup of this team and the poor performance of our prospects in Hamilton, it could possibly be several years before we are in this position right before the playoffs.

Not giving up on Bergevin though. He is a rookie
Other Than LeBlanc having a crappy year, the top prospects in Hamilton had pretty good years(Beaulieu Tinordi Gallagher). Guys like Ellis and Holland had slow starts, not abnormal for 20 year olds in the AHL.

The biggest issue in Hamilton is weak veteran help with Palushaj in Colorado and Geoffrion being out all year. St.Denis alo missed time. I think next year they need a 50-70 point 1st line AHL veteran or two.

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04-17-2013, 01:55 PM
  #229
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Originally Posted by LePoche69 View Post
I think Bergevin did what he could. Renting a d-man would have mean nothing as the d-fense's problems are more deep than that.

We shouldn't fool ourselves, that d-fense will need help next year also. Markov, Bouillon and Gorges won't be better next year. In fact, they could only get worse and/or slower. Emelin might stay the same while Diaz and PK could step up a bit. And Tinordi or Beaulieu won't be able to eat big minutes next year -- they need another 1 or 2 seasons of maturing.

I think this summer, Bergevin will have to sacrifice a good young forward to get a strong d-man in return. I wouldn't be surprise to see a deal with Eller-Yandl as a base. Or maybe max pac. It would hurt, but Habs would be better nonetheless.

My bet is Eller will be used as trade bait for a good d-man. Next year, I think Galchenyuk will be ready to play center.
I think Markov will actually be better next season. This was the first season he's played in a long while and it takes a long time to get to where you once were. Maybe his footspeed will never return but I think next season his pinching and stickwork will improve tremendously. He works too hard to let himself fall off completely. That plus he won't be relied on to play 24+ minutes a game next season and won't be so exhausted all the time. I think the smartest thing we could do is pair Emelin with Subban. Emelin plays much better on the left side and quite frankly is better than Gorges at this point by a decent margin. I think Gorges is at least partially at fault for PK's lack of ES production. Markov-Gorges is a solid second pairing and Diaz can even move up into Markov's spot if Markov simply can't handle big ES minutes.

Emelin-Subban
Gorges-Diaz
Markov-Bouillon/Beaulieu/Tinordi/Drewiske(if re-signed)

Wouldn't be the worst d-corps. Ideally Gorges would be moved in the next 2-3 seasons for a stronger guy like Tinordi. I really can't envision a scenario where Gorges is in the top 4 for his entire contract/plays it out here. His not taking a discount is actually going to hurt him and his chances of staying here more than it's going to hurt us. Hopefully Bergevin doesn't make the same mistakes as Gauthier in giving non-core guys 6 year contracts. No matter how popular they are in the room.

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Old
04-17-2013, 02:10 PM
  #230
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Originally Posted by Ezpz View Post
I think Markov will actually be better next season. This was the first season he's played in a long while and it takes a long time to get to where you once were. Maybe his footspeed will never return but I think next season his pinching and stickwork will improve tremendously. He works too hard to let himself fall off completely. That plus he won't be relied on to play 24+ minutes a game next season and won't be so exhausted all the time. I think the smartest thing we could do is pair Emelin with Subban. Emelin plays much better on the left side and quite frankly is better than Gorges at this point by a decent margin. I think Gorges is at least partially at fault for PK's lack of ES production. Markov-Gorges is a solid second pairing and Diaz can even move up into Markov's spot if Markov simply can't handle big ES minutes.

Emelin-Subban
Gorges-Diaz
Markov-Bouillon/Beaulieu/Tinordi/Drewiske(if re-signed)

Wouldn't be the worst d-corps. Ideally Gorges would be moved in the next 2-3 seasons for a stronger guy like Tinordi. I really can't envision a scenario where Gorges is in the top 4 for his entire contract/plays it out here. His not taking a discount is actually going to hurt him and his chances of staying here more than it's going to hurt us. Hopefully Bergevin doesn't make the same mistakes as Gauthier in giving non-core guys 6 year contracts. No matter how popular they are in the room.
Would you rather have those players in Montreal on 6 year contracts or lose them for nothing? Usually those are given out to guys heading towards UFA(Plekanec Gorges) plus Price. If you are hard line that you only give them 4 years then the cap hit probably goes up as they will want more in return for less security.

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04-17-2013, 02:33 PM
  #231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LePoche69 View Post
There's no need to panic, I just think that d-fense needs another strong presence because next year, beside PK, there's fewer and fewer chances Markov will be that presence beside of on the PP. And nobody significant is coming for the next 1-3 years. Adding someone like Yandl for those 1-3 years would be a very wise move.

What the actual d-corpse accomplished this year, as you pointed out, is only half-relevent to me since it is a 48 games season. That very same d-fense could very well have the Habs played for .450 the rest of the way given their age (markov-Bouillon) and the fatigue (Gorges). In fact, that would have been what a lot of people envisionned at the start of the year. That d-fense was suspect then, and to me, it remains suspect over a 82 games seasons. Adding a kind of Yandl would only make sense to me.
Just a feeling no sources or anything but I see Yandle being moved to Boston or signing there the moment he becomes a UFA


Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Great posts in this thread.

With the present makeup of this team and the poor performance of our prospects in Hamilton, it could possibly be several years before we are in this position right before the playoffs.

Not giving up on Bergevin though. He is a rookie
I'm not giving up on Bergevin either and most of his moves have been positive as of now, but I don't agree with what he did at the deadline. But it's just my opinion and I get him wanting to build trough the draft

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04-17-2013, 02:35 PM
  #232
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I'd say his only mistake is extending Bouillon.

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04-17-2013, 02:37 PM
  #233
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I'd say his only mistake is extending Bouillon.
Moen signing and DD but time will tell for DD

Other then that he has done great work both in the room and completing his management team

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04-17-2013, 02:42 PM
  #234
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Would you rather have those players in Montreal on 6 year contracts or lose them for nothing? Usually those are given out to guys heading towards UFA(Plekanec Gorges) plus Price. If you are hard line that you only give them 4 years then the cap hit probably goes up as they will want more in return for less security.
Plekanec is a core player, I was and am perfectly fine with his 5x6 deal. I somehow doubt it was "I want 6 years or I walk" with Gorges either. I'm not understanding how a player like Gorges gets a NTC on a 6 year deal where he's paid market value. It reeks of terrible negotiating to me. There's nothing more Gorges could have gotten in his deal if he'd gone to July 1st, save for maybe 100-200k.

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04-17-2013, 02:48 PM
  #235
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
Moen signing and DD but time will tell for DD

Other then that he has done great work both in the room and completing his management team
DD is just hated on because he doesn't put up a ton of points and he's small.3.5 for a guy who puts up 50-60 is fair.

1.8 for Moen is a bit excessive, but at least he's started to shown a willingness to engage again.

Bouillon sucks at defense, sucks at offense, and doesn't really want to defend teammates unless he really has to. He seems to think he's more important on the ice than in the box.

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04-17-2013, 02:56 PM
  #236
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Originally Posted by Analyzer View Post
DD is just hated on because he doesn't put up a ton of points and he's small.3.5 for a guy who puts up 50-60 is fair.

1.8 for Moen is a bit excessive, but at least he's started to shown a willingness to engage again.

Bouillon sucks at defense, sucks at offense, and doesn't really want to defend teammates unless he really has to. He seems to think he's more important on the ice than in the box.
The long-term hate for DD is unwarranted. He's a good player and I'm fine with his contract.

The recent dislike for him is, particularly since re-signing. He's been playing like garbage and he's better than this. That and it's frustrating to watch him out there on the PP when Eller deserves it more. The meritocracy of the Habs is a sham. That fuels the hatred.

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04-17-2013, 02:58 PM
  #237
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Plekanec is a core player, I was and am perfectly fine with his 5x6 deal. I somehow doubt it was "I want 6 years or I walk" with Gorges either. I'm not understanding how a player like Gorges gets a NTC on a 6 year deal where he's paid market value. It reeks of terrible negotiating to me. There's nothing more Gorges could have gotten in his deal if he'd gone to July 1st, save for maybe 100-200k.
I never said it was "give me 6 years or I walk", but I'm sure if you go to 4 years for example, the price probably goes up to 5.5-5.75 mil cap hit.

I think Plekanec's contract is a much better one than Gorges, but Gorges still isn't bad. Any UFA eligible contract for a top 4 d-man starts at 3.5 mil and ends at 7.5-8 mil so Gorges is paid at the bottom of the scale in that sense. Guys making less are either on ELC, 2nd contracs or #5-7 types.

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04-17-2013, 03:22 PM
  #238
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Originally Posted by Analyzer View Post
DD is just hated on because he doesn't put up a ton of points and he's small.3.5 for a guy who puts up 50-60 is fair.

1.8 for Moen is a bit excessive, but at least he's started to shown a willingness to engage again.

Bouillon sucks at defense, sucks at offense, and doesn't really want to defend teammates unless he really has to. He seems to think he's more important on the ice than in the box.
Seriously, you blast Boullion, a $1m Dman playing as a #4 and the only Dman that will fight, and then defend a soft, slow DD that is sucking the life out of the #1 line?

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04-17-2013, 03:40 PM
  #239
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Originally Posted by Analyzer View Post
DD is just hated on because he doesn't put up a ton of points and he's small.3.5 for a guy who puts up 50-60 is fair.

1.8 for Moen is a bit excessive, but at least he's started to shown a willingness to engage again.

Bouillon sucks at defense, sucks at offense, and doesn't really want to defend teammates unless he really has to. He seems to think he's more important on the ice than in the box.


Like really?

Bouillon is up there with Prust as one of the first guys to defend a teammate. He's been very steady defensively, solid offensively and makes peanuts at 1.5 mil...what do you expect at #5 or 6 Shea Weber? Drew Doughty? Duncan Keith?

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04-17-2013, 04:34 PM
  #240
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Yandle not Yandl

The problem with Yandle is that he will cost Plekanec or Eller plus maybe other assets. So you get another PMD and open up a hole at center, st least sin the short term.

I think a longer schedule helps guys like Markov, as there would be more rest between games and not a bunch of 4 games in 6 days stretches.
I wouldn't mind trading a guy like Eller for a guy like Yandle. Galchenyuk will be ready to play center next year, IMO. And d-man of Yandle's caliber are a rare commodity. Beside PK, nobody comes close to this in the pipeline (maybe Dietz, but it's a long shot). You never have too many star d-men...

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04-17-2013, 07:28 PM
  #241
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Pens lead 5-1 halfway through game.

I guess our Defensive depth is holding up great!

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04-17-2013, 07:31 PM
  #242
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Pens lead 5-1 halfway through game.

I guess our Defensive depth is holding up great!
Dont worry it will in a few years......patience grasshopper

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04-17-2013, 07:33 PM
  #243
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Dont worry it will in a few years......patience grasshopper
If we waited 20 years since the last Cup, we can wait another 20 years.

Patience is a virtue.

Patience is also the Montreal Canadiens management strategy for the last two decades.

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04-17-2013, 07:36 PM
  #244
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If we waited 20 years since the last Cup, we can wait another 20 years.

Patience is a virtue.

Patience is also the Montreal Canadiens management strategy for the last two decades.
Well you could always become a Leaf fan and wait 40 more

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04-17-2013, 07:37 PM
  #245
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Its a good thing MB did not do anything at the deadline, getting a top 4 d still would not put us over the top. As long as we have gio and DD playing in the top 6 we are not going anywhere

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04-17-2013, 07:39 PM
  #246
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What a goal by Chuckie!!

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Old
04-17-2013, 08:11 PM
  #247
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Well you could always become a Leaf fan and wait 40 more
Somehow I find a little comfort in that. Kind of like leaving the orthopedic doctor's office with a cast on your broken arm and then seeing another guy being wheeled out with a cast on his broken leg.

Sucks but not as bad of a suck as the other guy.

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04-17-2013, 08:13 PM
  #248
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No, it was Bouillon and re-signing him.

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04-17-2013, 08:13 PM
  #249
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And Douglas Murray with the moral victory goal.

Sorry WeThreeKings. I had to.

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04-17-2013, 08:15 PM
  #250
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You recognize that you are not there yet, and you don't throw away your youth and picks for nothing. Pretty fine to me. WE will need to improve from now on though. Working solely on expectations for the future aren't good enough. You need to show some progression at one point.

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