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Colorado/Montreal Trade Proposal

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Old
04-19-2005, 05:36 PM
  #76
Enoch
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Whats this age nonsense?

Hejduk just turned 29, 2 months ago. He is in the prime of his career and will be there for 5-6 years.....

Ryder is 25 and has only had 1 successful NHL season. Ribero is 25 and surprise surprise, has only had 1 year where he has managed to stick in NHL and produce.

Ryder and Ribeiro do not equal what Hejduk brings to the table. Not to mention the intangibles that Hejduk has, whereas Ribeiro.....well lets just not go there.

The fact of the matter is, Hejduk is an elite RW. He is unmatched in terms of shooting, and in the NHL, you will find only 4 to 5 players that can score goals like he can - those being Naslund, Sakic, Iginla (although he relies on other elements in his game besides pure shooting skills......not to take away from his shot). You could make an argument for some youngsters ala Kovalchuk, but there is clearly a trend here. These guys are HOF talents. Ryder and Ribeiro are NOT even close to that skillwise, much less mentally on the ice.

Hejduk is an all around player. He can play great pk, excell ofensively, his speed is top notch, and he can score at will. He has scored 50 goals in a league with virutually no offense, won a stanley cup, and been a pillar for the Avs to lean on for years.

The Avs would be stupid to make this trade, unless there was no other way to keep Forsberg.

The Habs would be stupid not to make this trade. They have the money. Besides, getting rid of two second-tier players who will likely try to demand top dollar for second-rate skills, will pay off in the long run, and I believe they are both replaceable. The first rounder is a shot in the pants, BUT look at their aspirations. Kovalev carried this team deep in the playoffs, despite being a liablity defensively and to be blunt, extremely inconsistent. With Hejduk, you have all the talent of Kovalev, granted in a smaller frame, but with somone who goes out 100% and knows how to finish in all situations. The Habs would likely go deep into the playoffs, making that 1st rounder late and hardly as valuable as many believe. Besides you just acquired RADEK BONK! He is going to be getting Ribiero's icetime anyways.

The way I see it -

Ribiero is expendable, Ryder is as well, especially with your farm system. Hejduk makes this team a contendor without Kovalev, and does not eliminate them from bringing him into begin with. Ryder and Ribiero do not....they need Kovalev to be brought in to take this team to the next level. You play to win. Hejduk gives this team the best chance to win consistently, and deeper in the playoffs.


----
JKiss, my apologies .

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Old
04-19-2005, 05:38 PM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockeyfan02
I'm not a fan of Hejduk or the Avs, but he's not past his prime even if he is 30. 85 goals the last 2 NHL seasons is at the very least top 3 in the NHL during that time. Not saying the Habs should do the deal, but come on the guy is in his prime not past it. Of course, I'm probably forgetting that some on this site think anything past 25 is old.
No doubbt he is a great player, one of the best in the last couple of years but he is not what the Habs need.

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Old
04-19-2005, 05:41 PM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch


----
JKiss, my apologies .
No problem.

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Old
04-19-2005, 05:41 PM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch
Whats this age nonsense?

Hejduk just turned 29, 2 months ago. He is in the prime of his career and will be there for 5-6 years.....

Ryder is 25 and has only had 1 successful NHL season. Ribero is 25 and surprise surprise, has only had 1 year where he has managed to stick in NHL and produce.

Ryder and Ribeiro do not equal what Hejduk brings to the table. Not to mention the intangibles that Hejduk has, whereas Ribeiro.....well lets just not go there.

The fact of the matter is, Hejduk is an elite RW. He is unmatched in terms of shooting, and in the NHL, you will find only 4 to 5 players that can score goals like he can - those being Naslund, Sakic, Iginla (although he relies on other elements in his game besides pure shooting skills......not to take away from his shot). You could make an argument for some youngsters ala Kovalchuk, but there is clearly a trend here. These guys are HOF talents. Ryder and Ribeiro are NOT even close to that skillwise, much less mentally on the ice.

Hejduk is an all around player. He can play great pk, excell ofensively, his speed is top notch, and he can score at will. He has scored 50 goals in a league with virutually no offense, won a stanley cup, and been a pillar for the Avs to lean on for years.

The Avs would be stupid to make this trade, unless there was no other way to keep Forsberg.

The Habs would be stupid not to make this trade. They have the money. Besides, getting rid of two second-tier players who will likely try to demand top dollar for second-rate skills, will pay off in the long run, and I believe they are both replaceable. The first rounder is a shot in the pants, BUT look at their aspirations. Kovalev carried this team deep in the playoffs, despite being a liablity defensively and to be blunt, extremely inconsistent. With Hejduk, you have all the talen of Kovalev, granted in a smaller frame, but with somone who goes out 100%. They would likely go deep into the playoffs, making that 1st rounder late and hardly as valuable as many believe. Besides you just acquired RADEK BONK! He is going to be getting Ribiero's icetime anyways.

The way I see it -

Ribiero is expendable, Ryder is as well, especially with your farm system. Hejduk makes this team a contendor without Kovalev, and does not eliminate them from bringing him into begin with. Ryder and Ribiero do not....they need Kovalev to be brought in to take this team to the next level. You play to win. Hejduk gives this team the best chance to win consistently, and deeper in the playoffs.


----
JKiss, my apologies .
Ribs and Ryder are a lot more usefull to the HABS hten Hejduk would be.

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Old
04-19-2005, 05:45 PM
  #80
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Enoch...

So because Ryder and Ribeiro only have proven to put up big numbers 1 time in their career, that means that they should be shipped out?

Does their good year last year not at least give them the benefit of the doubt that they will most likely, and are expected to repeat and maybe even surpass those numbers?

I agree that Hedjuk is a great player, I agree with everything you said about him...but he alone, can't make the Habs any better without Ribeiro and Ryder...i'm not even comparing Hedjuk to those 2 players, so nobody accuse me of this...but if there's one thing Ryder showed me, is he has the shooting skills you mentionned, like Hedjuk, he's quite adept at picking corners and has a lethal wrist/snapshot, and like Hedjuk, knows how to get into position to unleash that shot...so would it not make sense for the habs to keep one of their best playmakers (Ribeiro, like him or hate him, he's a very good set up man) and a guy in Ryder, who also can bury the puck, not at Hedjuk's clip but who should be able to be a consisten 25 -30 goal player?

I just don't see why Montreal would make this trade?

P.S.-Just to get back on this real quick, I think i'm going to start a Torres vs. Ryder poll just to see what the general consensus is, i'm still speecheless

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Old
04-19-2005, 05:45 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsolument
About the proposal, it has mostly been said already. Hejduk is a nice player, but at 30, past his prime. Then you have Ryder and Ribeiro, who are fan favorites, coming back from their excellent rookie seasons. Not from Montreal's perspective.
lol

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Old
04-19-2005, 05:45 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyIsALegend
Ladies and gentlemen... the definition of prospectitis.

The NHL's highest goal scorer of the past two seasons is now past his prime at 30 years of age, where he is likely to win more Cups, more Rocket Richards, and play more years than he's even played now.

The issue isn't whether he's a great player. He obviously is. The issue is how close is he to UFA status, especially going into a new CBA. Not sure I'm willing to gut the second line for what might be a cup of coffee out of Hedjuk. The only way I do this deal is if Hedjuk is signed to a cap friendly long term contract.

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Old
04-19-2005, 05:47 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by x-bob
Ribs and Ryder are a lot more usefull to the HABS hten Hejduk would be.
I think people are just looking at name value (Hedjuk) and not team needs for the Habs...that's why...as Habs fans we know that small goal scorers, aren't always the best mix for our team, even if their name is Milan Hedjuk

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Old
04-19-2005, 05:51 PM
  #84
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The only way you can like the hypothesized lineup 1 more is if Kovalev is signed. Who is to say he will sign with the Habs? Did he sign with the Habs before the lockout? Why would he not be able to sign with the Habs with Hejduk?

The answer the last, at least, is that they could sign him. Ditching Rib/Ryder frees up some money, while adding one of the elite scorers in the game. The Habs would still be capable of adding Kovalev which would make the second lineup far, far superior to the first. The common fallacy in this thread is that, somehow the Habs are trading

Kovalev, Ryder, Ribiero, and a 1st round selection for

Hejudk

They simply are not. Kovalev would likely want to play with the Habs even more when they have shown a willingness to win by getting Hejduk. Lets not forget - the Habs never had Kovalev to begin with - He is an UFA! Adding Hejduk, makes this team much more of a cup contendor, and it will make this team more attractive to any UFA looking to win.

My point in this post is simple, your proposed lineups are flawed as you are adding in players that are not on your roster and taking them away in the second lineup......as if Hejduk is the cause for them to not be there. The cause would simply be your management not being willing to pay for Kovalev as they will be in almost the exact same finacial situation.

---

I guess being able to watch Hejduk for 80 games in a year teaches one how great he truly is...

And to agree with PJ - I would only do this deal if Hejduk was locked up to a multi year deal. Of course, this is the assumption everyone is going on. Hejduk will be an RFA anyways so its not like his salary will be set into stone at 5.2 mil (or is it 5.7???), which was his raise for this year's season.

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Old
04-19-2005, 05:55 PM
  #85
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If the Avs no longer want broken-down, old Milan Hejduk, I am sure the Flyers would take him off their hands.

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Old
04-19-2005, 05:57 PM
  #86
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ryder and plekaneck and 2nd for hedjuk


zednick-koivu-hedjuk
hossa-ribeiro-perezhogin

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Old
04-19-2005, 05:57 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyIsALegend
Ladies and gentlemen... the definition of prospectitis.

The NHL's highest goal scorer of the past two seasons is now past his prime at 30 years of age, where he is likely to win more Cups, more Rocket Richards, and play more years than he's even played now.

Well, you know: a superstar status at age 17 (guess who?); a has-been at 26.

Adding to the absurdity, on a different level: some of the very same posters who for years have decried the spending of the wealthier teams of the league, and their so-called ability to "steal" better players from more frugal franchises, are now swooping in and hovering like vultures over the talent of the best franchises, in a vain attempt to devour the "leftovers" they hope will be available once a draconian hardcap comes into play.

As in: Hedjuk.

Can you spell: hypocrisy?

Got to love it.

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Old
04-19-2005, 06:04 PM
  #88
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From MTL : HELL NO !

Ryder OR Ribeiro + pick 1 .

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Old
04-19-2005, 06:10 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch
The only way you can like the hypothesized lineup 1 more is if Kovalev is signed. Who is to say he will sign with the Habs? Did he sign with the Habs before the lockout? Why would he not be able to sign with the Habs with Hejduk?

The answer the last, at least, is that they could sign him. Ditching Rib/Ryder frees up some money, while adding one of the elite scorers in the game. The Habs would still be capable of adding Kovalev which would make the second lineup far, far superior to the first. The common fallacy in this thread is that, somehow the Habs are trading

Kovalev, Ryder, Ribiero, and a 1st round selection for

Hejudk

They simply are not. Kovalev would likely want to play with the Habs even more when they have shown a willingness to win by getting Hejduk. Lets not forget - the Habs never had Kovalev to begin with - He is an UFA! Adding Hejduk, makes this team much more of a cup contendor, and it will make this team more attractive to any UFA looking to win.

My point in this post is simple, your proposed lineups are flawed as you are adding in players that are not on your roster and taking them away in the second lineup......as if Hejduk is the cause for them to not be there. The cause would simply be your management not being willing to pay for Kovalev as they will be in almost the exact same finacial situation.

---

I guess being able to watch Hejduk for 80 games in a year teaches one how great he truly is...

And to agree with PJ - I would only do this deal if Hejduk was locked up to a multi year deal. Of course, this is the assumption everyone is going on. Hejduk will be an RFA anyways so its not like his salary will be set into stone at 5.2 mil (or is it 5.7???), which was his raise for this year's season.
I like the idea of having both Kovalev an Hejduk.

I was about to write something along the same lines, because I think if a trade of this sort were to be made, the Habs would have to go after another FA. If that FA happened to be a guy like Kovalev, that would be great. Having and elite first line, (which is what Hejduk turns the no.1 line into) and a great second line consisting of Kovalev would be great.

Hejduk is a top 5 RW in the league, if the Habs could get him by giving up Ribs/Ryder, that would be great. We have Perezhogin coming up who might be able to fill the void left by Ryder.

Ribeiro is replacable. Yes, he's very talented, but the Habs are deep and Center and the league is loaded with talented Centermen. There will be many UFA's on the market, and who knows, maybe Plekanec could step up and play. Having Kovalev as a winger surely wouldn't hurt him.

The old adage is true, to get talent you have to be ready to give talent. Ribeiro is a talented asset and if if meant giving him up to get Hejduk, I don't see a problem with it. The first rond pick is what hurts me the most. Ribs/Ryder I have no problem with that part of the deal, it's the first round pick makes it harder. Maybe bring it down to a 2nd, or have Colorado throw a little something else in as an aside

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Old
04-19-2005, 06:21 PM
  #90
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If Colorado gets Ribeiro where would he play? He won't be #1 or #2 with Sakic and Forsberg in Denver. You wouldn't have him on the 3rd line. He's not a 2 way
player.

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Old
04-19-2005, 08:59 PM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 417 TO MTL

P.S.-Just to get back on this real quick, I think i'm going to start a Torres vs. Ryder poll just to see what the general consensus is, i'm still speecheless
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=139827

The poll is made. Torres is beating Ryder 13 - 6.

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=139827

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Old
04-19-2005, 09:08 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Jovanovski = Norris
And I really can't beleive it

Some people take grit over anything

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Old
04-19-2005, 09:37 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by x-bob
And I really can't beleive it

Some people take grit over anything
Grit, strength and physical play are essential parts of hockey. I don't see why they are just peripheral attributes now.

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Old
04-19-2005, 09:44 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Jovanovski = Norris
I am almost certain that there will be other teams out there that can beat that offer for Hejduk's services.

For example, Edmonton has a couple of cheap young guys but is looking for a marquee star. Perhaps a Torres + Dvorak + 2nd rounder for Hejduk? The only problem is that such a deal might come back and haunt both teams.
what a bad joke.

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Old
04-19-2005, 10:09 PM
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jovanovski = Norris
Grit, strength and physical play are essential parts of hockey. I don't see why they are just peripheral attributes now.
I'll take one great year out of and 8th round pick then a ****** year for a 5th overall pick

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Old
04-19-2005, 10:10 PM
  #96
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I still can't understand how ryder get crunched against torres ...
anyway it will change very fast next year when ryder will outproduce Torres again !

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Old
04-19-2005, 10:28 PM
  #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psycho Joe
The issue isn't whether he's a great player. He obviously is. The issue is how close is he to UFA status, especially going into a new CBA. Not sure I'm willing to gut the second line for what might be a cup of coffee out of Hedjuk. The only way I do this deal is if Hedjuk is signed to a cap friendly long term contract.
Obviously an issue with Hejduk is being close to UFA. The issue with the poster myself and RIAL responded to was calling Hejduk "past his prime", with the most goals in the last two seasons, he is not. I don't think this works for either team. If I'm the Avs I dont break up my #1 if Forsberg comes back and the Habs would be better off resigning Kovalev and keeping their two 2nd line players.

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Old
04-19-2005, 10:29 PM
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyIsALegend
That's absolutely pathetic and you _know_ it.

Marek Svatos
Wojtek Wolski

for

Jere Lehtinen
Trevor Daley

Deal?
Psst....Ryder and Ribiero(even with his playoff antics) are so much more superior to lazy shrimp Svatos and Wolski its not even funny. This thread is about a proposal between Colorado and Montreal. Exactly what is the purpose of bringing the Stars into it?

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Old
04-19-2005, 10:54 PM
  #99
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I would love to have Hejduk on the Habs, but there are a few things that would worry me. Firstly, I just get a bad feeling that as soon as Hejduk hits UFA status, he bolts back to the AVs, where I'm pretty sure he loves to play. Then, what do we have to show for the trade? Squat. How will he play when he plays in the tighter checking East as opposed to the more open West? Will he put up the same numbers when he's not playing with 2 future HOFers? I highly doubt it. I think at this time in Montreal's building phase, that it would be better to hang onto Ryder and Ribiero (Even though I hate the guy) and slowly build through the draft and smaller trades/signings. I'm sure a contending team can offer a nice package to the Avs to get Hejduk. I just don't think the 2 teams make good trade partners at this time in their current situations.

BTW, for the guy who generalized about the "Habs Fan Base", bite me.

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Old
04-19-2005, 11:07 PM
  #100
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A little late here... what an absolute steal for Montreal (assuming they could Hejduk signed for ~3 years and isn't lost for nothign). I can't believe Hab fans are whining so much about all of that.

I'd love to see Hejduk in a Flames uniform, but we just don't have the assets to deal for him (or positions, since Iginla and a cheap Kobasew will be the 2 top line RWers) but hypothetically... could a package including Leopold and Donovan get it done?

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