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Tank or Make a Run for 8th?

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04-06-2013, 12:44 PM
  #1
predwings
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Tank or Make a Run for 8th?

Tank: if you choose to tank it out and go for draft position, give me an idea who you'd like to see us nab in the upcoming draft.

Make a Run: If you'd like to see us make a run for 8th, give us some details on why.

Just a topic of discussion, I'm not sure the draft is laden with amazing talent this year so I'd have to sway to the side of trying to just keep winning. I also am under the suspicion that picking 7-10th is no better than picking 16th. Generally speaking players in those ranges are of similar if not equal skill level and whether they are a bust or not will be determined by their development and self-determination.

If we could tank and get to pick around 3-5 I'd say that would be a more elite prospect and might actually be worth it? However, that's an icy ground because with that kind of season you can see many RFAs and FAs walk.

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04-06-2013, 01:00 PM
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Fight until they say you are out take a few extra swings the play Mason a lot

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04-06-2013, 04:29 PM
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triggrman
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Tanking= Loser mentality.

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04-06-2013, 04:37 PM
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I Will Son
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Tank. Get a high pick.


This team has no business being in the playoffs... Nor would they make it anyway

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04-06-2013, 04:50 PM
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Really not a issue. 38 points 9 games to go. The reality of it is 44 or 45 points is where there going to end up. Will end up picking from 9 to 13 not going to get a player that will be roster ready for next year without trading up.

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04-06-2013, 04:58 PM
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Being O.K. with deliberate losing is never acceptable. Play hard every game. If they lose because a team played better that night, ok. Rolling over and quitting is an abomination.

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04-06-2013, 05:04 PM
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It doesn't matter. This team with its current depleted lineup will tank even while trying hard. Witness today. Intentionally throwing in the towel might get them a spot or two but isn't worth it. At some point you rest Rinne, you sit anyone wearing a cast or a brace, you try a few guys in new positions, call a few up and wrap up the season.

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04-06-2013, 05:11 PM
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Top 6 Spaling
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I don't support tanking. I do support letting younger players (i.e. Beck, Ellis, Blum, etc.) have more ice time and just being ok with whatever happens. Play Mason more to rest Rinne. Let's not try to lose, but let's go with the young guys and see what happens.

Playoffs are a pipe dream at this point. Forget it. According to Sportsclubstats.com, we have a 2.6% chance to make the playoffs.

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04-06-2013, 05:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Top 6 Spaling View Post
I don't support tanking. I do support letting younger players (i.e. Beck, Ellis, Blum, etc.) have more ice time and just being ok with whatever happens. Play Mason more to rest Rinne. Let's not try to lose, but let's go with the young guys and see what happens.

Playoffs are a pipe dream at this point. Forget it. According to Sportsclubstats.com, we have a 2.6% chance to make the playoffs.
Yep forget about playoffs. Get the guys hurt healthy and some young guys ice time. Fingers crossed for Poile wowing us in the offseason.

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04-06-2013, 07:19 PM
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looking at what we have left and how much we have to make up now its not going to happen. so lets not even think like 8th is there now... but dont want to tank. to me this now becomes about the younger guys and letting them show what they can do for next year. let us see what we have for next year and what we will need to go out and get.. give more time to ellis, blum, beck ext and let the chips land where they may.

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04-06-2013, 07:33 PM
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PredsV82
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Play hard, play to win, but go ahead and play the kids, and whatever happens, happens

If the kids get valuable experience but we lose, the draft pick is a nice consolation prize

If the kids get valuable experience and we win, thats even better

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04-08-2013, 08:54 AM
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gopreds19
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I love how a lot of people are above "tanking". but think we should rest vets, call up youngsters, and "see what happens". People that's the definiton of tanking. You think Trotz and co are going to delierately throw games? To tank, you ice a team as poor and inexperienced as possibleb by resting vets and calling up inexperienced youngsters.

But I guess if it makes you sleep better and night to not call that tanking, so be it. lol.

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04-08-2013, 09:04 AM
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Play spoiler and knock the Red Wings out of the playoffs! Lose everything else.

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04-08-2013, 09:47 AM
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PredsV82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gopreds19 View Post
I love how a lot of people are above "tanking". but think we should rest vets, call up youngsters, and "see what happens". People that's the definiton of tanking. You think Trotz and co are going to delierately throw games? To tank, you ice a team as poor and inexperienced as possibleb by resting vets and calling up inexperienced youngsters.

But I guess if it makes you sleep better and night to not call that tanking, so be it. lol.
there is a huge difference between "tanking"(ie deliberately losing) and utilizing an opportunity to get some youth on the ice for NHL games. If we were "tanking" do you really think Rinne would be playing BTB games?

Fisher apparently has a nagging injury that if this had been an 82 game season he would have sat out for a couple of months but tried to gut it out. Gaustad has been back and forth on IR all season. There is no reason for either of them to play again this year. Thats not "tanking" that smart asset management.

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04-08-2013, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
there is a huge difference between "tanking"(ie deliberately losing) and utilizing an opportunity to get some youth on the ice for NHL games. If we were "tanking" do you really think Rinne would be playing BTB games?

Fisher apparently has a nagging injury that if this had been an 82 game season he would have sat out for a couple of months but tried to gut it out. Gaustad has been back and forth on IR all season. There is no reason for either of them to play again this year. Thats not "tanking" that smart asset management.
Fisher doesn't have a nagging injury, he simply has an injury that if it wasn't down the stretch and we weren't already missing so many guys, he would be sitting out a couple months type of injury. That's character...

Gaustad has a groin pull and will be out a couple weeks. Whatever is wrong with Wilson is not worth putting at risk again this season.

I agree with PredsV82 though, there is a HUGE difference in tanking (deliberately losing) and simply putting your best available out there, playing hard, and seeing what happens. We are definitely in the second category both in this thread and also on the ice...

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04-08-2013, 09:58 AM
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Never tank it, moving up a couple draft postions is never worth giving up the teams pride. Also when it comes to the free agent market no one is going to sign with a team that gives up, so never lose on purpose.

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04-08-2013, 11:43 AM
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Play spoiler and knock the Red Wings out of the playoffs! Lose everything else.
yup i want t see the wings and blues not make it in!

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04-08-2013, 11:58 AM
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Cashville
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Can someone clarify the new draft rules for me? See link below for reference:

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=658503

How does the drawing actually work? I don't really understand this:

Quote:
The NHL Draft Lottery is a weighted system to determine the order of selection for the first 14 picks of the 2013 NHL Draft. Teams finishing with the fewest points during the regular season possess the greatest chance of winning the right to the first pick in the NHL Draft. Fourteen balls, numbered 1 to 14, are placed in a lottery machine. The machine expels four balls, forming a series of numbers. The four-digit series resulting from the expulsion of the balls is matched against a probability chart that divides the possible combinations among the 14 participating clubs.
There's a clause at the bottom that says no team can move down more than one spot as a result of the lottery. Does that mean the draft is status quo (goes according to finishing order) except for the first pick lottery? In other words, they draw a ball (say it's #7), the #7 team moves to #1, teams #1-6 move down one slot, teams #8-14 are unaffected, and from then on out you just draft in normal order (i.e. 7 > 1 > 2 > 3 > 4 > 5 > 6 > 8 > etc.). Does it go back to the correct order for the second round, or is #7 at the front for each round?

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04-08-2013, 12:47 PM
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predwings
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cashville View Post
Can someone clarify the new draft rules for me? See link below for reference:

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=658503

How does the drawing actually work? I don't really understand this:



There's a clause at the bottom that says no team can move down more than one spot as a result of the lottery. Does that mean the draft is status quo (goes according to finishing order) except for the first pick lottery? In other words, they draw a ball (say it's #7), the #7 team moves to #1, teams #1-6 move down one slot, teams #8-14 are unaffected, and from then on out you just draft in normal order (i.e. 7 > 1 > 2 > 3 > 4 > 5 > 6 > 8 > etc.). Does it go back to the correct order for the second round, or is #7 at the front for each round?
Easier terms if you're the worst team in the league you get your name in the hat like 10 times whereas the 10th worst only gets their name in the hat 1 time. So there is still a chance anyone could be the 1 pick. Just the further up a team is the easier it is to be drawn. Unlikely that anyone but the 1-3 picks would be draw from what I've heard.

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04-08-2013, 12:48 PM
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PredsV82
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Fisher doesn't have a nagging injury, he simply has an injury that if it wasn't down the stretch and we weren't already missing so many guys, he would be sitting out a couple months type of injury. That's character...

Gaustad has a groin pull and will be out a couple weeks. Whatever is wrong with Wilson is not worth putting at risk again this season.

I agree with PredsV82 though, there is a HUGE difference in tanking (deliberately losing) and simply putting your best available out there, playing hard, and seeing what happens. We are definitely in the second category both in this thread and also on the ice...
I thought I had read elsewhere that gaustads problem was recurring shoulder dislocations??

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04-08-2013, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cashville View Post
Can someone clarify the new draft rules for me? See link below for reference:

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=658503

How does the drawing actually work? I don't really understand this:



There's a clause at the bottom that says no team can move down more than one spot as a result of the lottery. Does that mean the draft is status quo (goes according to finishing order) except for the first pick lottery? In other words, they draw a ball (say it's #7), the #7 team moves to #1, teams #1-6 move down one slot, teams #8-14 are unaffected, and from then on out you just draft in normal order (i.e. 7 > 1 > 2 > 3 > 4 > 5 > 6 > 8 > etc.). Does it go back to the correct order for the second round, or is #7 at the front for each round?
It is for the first 14 picks this season if I'm not mistaken. The order of the first 14 picks of the draft will be determined by the lottery. After that standings will determine the order for the rest of the draft.

Last season a team could only move up 5 places, so only the bottom five teams had a shot at the first overall.

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04-08-2013, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gopreds19 View Post
I love how a lot of people are above "tanking". but think we should rest vets, call up youngsters, and "see what happens". People that's the definiton of tanking. You think Trotz and co are going to delierately throw games? To tank, you ice a team as poor and inexperienced as possibleb by resting vets and calling up inexperienced youngsters. .
Tanking is playing Clune 1st line minutes. It's taking a healthy SWeber out of the lineup. Etc. Kids playing against other teams that are outta' it, or playing instead of banged up Fish - not the same thing. There is no reason a guy that's injured should be out there with the potential to get hurt worse. There is no reason Rinne should be playing back-to-back (shouldn't have been anyway). Tanking is an attitude that 'it's ok to lose' - and that is never ok.

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04-08-2013, 01:41 PM
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triggrman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gopreds19 View Post
I love how a lot of people are above "tanking". but think we should rest vets, call up youngsters, and "see what happens". People that's the definiton of tanking. You think Trotz and co are going to delierately throw games? To tank, you ice a team as poor and inexperienced as possibleb by resting vets and calling up inexperienced youngsters.

But I guess if it makes you sleep better and night to not call that tanking, so be it. lol.
Fisher - Injured could not play
Wilson - Injured could not play
Gaustad - Injured could not play
Bourque - injured could not play

That's a M.A.S.H unit, not a tank.

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04-08-2013, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by gopreds19 View Post
I love how a lot of people are above "tanking". but think we should rest vets, call up youngsters, and "see what happens". People that's the definiton of tanking. You think Trotz and co are going to delierately throw games? To tank, you ice a team as poor and inexperienced as possibleb by resting vets and calling up inexperienced youngsters.

But I guess if it makes you sleep better and night to not call that tanking, so be it. lol.
Tanking is the active decision by the team to intentionally lose games to gain a better drafting position. I am certainly not for that. However, with the playoffs a memory now, I have no problem with the team getting a look at some of the better young players in the system at the NHL level. The experience will be invaluable for them going into camp next season.
Am I saying sit Weber for Ekholm? Of course not. But the vets with the nagging injuries I don't mind at all letting them not try to push through them to get back. Let Fisher, Wilson, Gaustad heal up properly and come back in full health next season.

There is nothing wrong with letting the injured vets taking time to fully heal up while letting some of our top prospects get into actual NHL games.

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04-08-2013, 02:27 PM
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Cashville
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It is for the first 14 picks this season if I'm not mistaken. The order of the first 14 picks of the draft will be determined by the lottery. After that standings will determine the order for the rest of the draft.

Last season a team could only move up 5 places, so only the bottom five teams had a shot at the first overall.
Regarding the underlined comment, that was how I thought it was done as well, but I don't think it's possible because of this comment on the NHL announcement:

Quote:
No club will move down more than one position as a result of the Draft Lottery. The remaining first round drafting positions are determined by the results of the Stanley Cup Playoffs.
To guarantee that no one moves down more than one spot, you can only "lottery-ize" the first pick based on my understand. Say #7 wins the first pick, then you held a lottery again for the second pick and #5 won, the draft would go: 7 > 5 > 1 > 2 > 3 > 4 > 6. Teams #1-4 would have moved down two spots each, which seems to run counter to the aforementioned clause.

And I still don't understand that four ball series thing.

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