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Kobe Bryant Vs. Nicklas Lidström - Who has done more for their team?

View Poll Results: Who?
Kobe Bryant 154 74.76%
Nicklas Lidström 52 25.24%
Voters: 206. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
04-09-2013, 11:02 AM
  #51
FrozenJagrt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominate Kesler View Post
Kobe Bryant is incredibly overrated.

He's an inefficient, volume shooter who has the inability to understand he has teammates. He also sucks defensively. To put it in hockey terms, he's basically Phil Kessel but with Cups.

Hell, if he didn't run Shaq out of LA, the Lakers could've easily won more championships.

So he probably harmed his team more than helped just because of his ego. He has played on stacked team most of his career and the few times he wasn't the Lakers were awful.
SO much wrong with this post. He's fourth all time in points, third in free throws, thirty-second in assists (currently leading the league at his position), 20th all time in PER. Yeah, he's inefficient.

He sucks defensively? Are you drunk? He's been a nine time first defensive and three time second defensive team selection over his career.

Kobe didn't run Shaq out of town, Shaq ran Shaq out with his ego and refusal to show any form of work ethic whatsoever. Shaq got by on his physical gifts to become one of the most dominant players we've ever seen, but he would have been so much better if he had tried to stay in shape and focused on fundamentals. Kobe was all business and Shaq was all fun, they clashed because of that and Shaq hated that someone was stealing his spotlight.

As for that championship thing, one would have thought that argument would have disappeared when Kobe won a pair of finals MVPs without Shaq.

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04-09-2013, 11:06 AM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominate Kesler View Post
Kobe Bryant is incredibly overrated.

He's an inefficient, volume shooter who has the inability to understand he has teammates. He also sucks defensively. To put it in hockey terms, he's basically Phil Kessel but with Cups.

Hell, if he didn't run Shaq out of LA, the Lakers could've easily won more championships.

So he probably harmed his team more than helped just because of his ego. He has played on stacked team most of his career and the few times he wasn't the Lakers were awful.
Check my post on the 1st page. U might change ur opinion.

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04-09-2013, 11:09 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by SchennSational1022 View Post
This is ********. Kobe had one of the best players ever at his position (Shaq).
And won 2 championships after shaq left.

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04-09-2013, 11:11 AM
  #54
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I can't believe it, an HFBoards post about basketball and hockey and there's only been about 3 of the obligatory "basketball sucks its not even a real sport blah blah blah" posts. That being said...... Lidstrom. Best defenseman of our generation.

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04-09-2013, 12:00 PM
  #55
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Kobe Bryant was the most marketable player in the world at one point.

This isn't even close.

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04-09-2013, 02:21 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by GoLeafsGo2626 View Post
I can't believe it, an HFBoards post about basketball and hockey and there's only been about 3 of the obligatory "basketball sucks its not even a real sport blah blah blah" posts. That being said...... Lidstrom. Best defenseman of our generation.
Kobe, best shooting guard of our generation.

See what I did there?

Alternatively: Kobe, best guard of our generation. Or Kobe, arguably best player of our generation (two horse race between him and Duncan, Garnett not far behind).

Really though, Lidstrom maybe cracks the top 20 of all time (all positions), but you'd be hard pressed to place Kobe anywhere outside of top 10 all time.

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04-09-2013, 05:24 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Ace14 View Post
SO much wrong with this post. He's fourth all time in points, third in free throws, thirty-second in assists (currently leading the league at his position), 20th all time in PER. Yeah, he's inefficient.

He sucks defensively? Are you drunk? He's been a nine time first defensive and three time second defensive team selection over his career.

Kobe didn't run Shaq out of town, Shaq ran Shaq out with his ego and refusal to show any form of work ethic whatsoever. Shaq got by on his physical gifts to become one of the most dominant players we've ever seen, but he would have been so much better if he had tried to stay in shape and focused on fundamentals. Kobe was all business and Shaq was all fun, they clashed because of that and Shaq hated that someone was stealing his spotlight.

As for that championship thing, one would have thought that argument would have disappeared when Kobe won a pair of finals MVPs without Shaq.
1. Kobe is playing point guard for the Lakers this season, which has turned one of the greatest PGs ever into a spot-up shooter. This has clearly hurt the team as instead of an offense where the ball is quickly moved around (which could be seen in the games Kobe missed), Kobe holds on to the ball for half the shot clock, killing any sort of offensive flow. Also, I notice how you didn't talk about his assist to turnover ratio, which is 37th out of the top 40 players in assists per game.

2. PER is seemingly a great stat, until you look at how it is calculated. I believe as long as you shoot over 32%, scoring more will continue to increase your PER. Therefore, while PER may include the word efficiency, it is not as accurate representation of that players' value and heavily favors high-volume shooters (this is why T-Mac has a top-15 all-time PER season).

3. Awards voting for defensive teams is almost entirely reputation based. Derrick Rose almost made the second defensive team last year when he is maybe the worst starter defensively on his team. Kobe has the athletic ability to be a great defensive player and occasionally shows that ability, but way too often refuses to help at all on defense, preferring to conserve his energy.

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04-09-2013, 06:44 PM
  #58
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The criminal

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04-09-2013, 06:53 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by bambamcam4ever View Post
1. Kobe is playing point guard for the Lakers this season, which has turned one of the greatest PGs ever into a spot-up shooter. This has clearly hurt the team as instead of an offense where the ball is quickly moved around (which could be seen in the games Kobe missed), Kobe holds on to the ball for half the shot clock, killing any sort of offensive flow. Also, I notice how you didn't talk about his assist to turnover ratio, which is 37th out of the top 40 players in assists per game.

2. PER is seemingly a great stat, until you look at how it is calculated. I believe as long as you shoot over 32%, scoring more will continue to increase your PER. Therefore, while PER may include the word efficiency, it is not as accurate representation of that players' value and heavily favors high-volume shooters (this is why T-Mac has a top-15 all-time PER season).

3. Awards voting for defensive teams is almost entirely reputation based. Derrick Rose almost made the second defensive team last year when he is maybe the worst starter defensively on his team. Kobe has the athletic ability to be a great defensive player and occasionally shows that ability, but way too often refuses to help at all on defense, preferring to conserve his energy.

u have to be kidding right? ive seen several games where kobe shuts down his man, and shows more effort on defense then anyone on his team. his on ball defense is top 5 in the league. and his off ball d is consistent. when do u ever see kobes man get open? maybe if hes screened, but he always fights through them.

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04-09-2013, 07:38 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Wrath View Post
Kobe, best shooting guard of our generation.

See what I did there?

Alternatively: Kobe, best guard of our generation. Or Kobe, arguably best player of our generation (two horse race between him and Duncan, Garnett not far behind).

Really though, Lidstrom maybe cracks the top 20 of all time (all positions), but you'd be hard pressed to place Kobe anywhere outside of top 10 all time.
IMO looking back on the 00s, duncan was the greatest player of that generation. Humble (wasn't a drama queen like shaq or kobe), great leader, won more championships as the man and most importantly did more with less.

Duncan >>> Kobe, every time when starting a franchise from scratch.

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04-09-2013, 07:40 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by magix View Post
IMO looking back on the 00s, duncan was the greatest player of that generation. Humble (wasn't a drama queen like shaq or kobe), great leader, won more championships as the man and most importantly did more with less.

Duncan >>> Kobe, every time when starting a franchise from scratch.
He also won back-to-back MVPs.

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04-09-2013, 08:33 PM
  #62
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Why are people acting like Kobe is a lock for top 10?

Jordan
Wilt
Kareem
Magic
Russel
Bird
Lebron
Shaq
Duncan
Robertson
Hakeem

All arguably better than Kobe and that's just off the top of my head.

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04-09-2013, 08:36 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by MastuhNinks View Post
Why are people acting like Kobe is a lock for top 10?

Jordan
Wilt
Kareem
Magic
Russel
Bird
Lebron
Shaq
Duncan
Robertson
Hakeem

All arguably better than Kobe and that's just off the top of my head.

Lebron? U serious?

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04-09-2013, 08:42 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by lboogie42 View Post
Lebron? U serious?
In terms of dominance, lebron is right there with wilt and shaq. Not to mention lebron is also one of the most complete forwards to have ever played the game.

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04-09-2013, 08:48 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by lboogie42 View Post
Lebron? U serious?
Uh... Yeah?

About to win his 4th MVP (something only Jordan, Wilt, Russell and Kareem have done), and is one of, if not the most complete and efficient players to ever play the game. Even if you don't want to crown him this year's MVP (which he will definitely win), he has already tripled up on Kobe in that regard, already has a Finals MVP, his career PER is 2nd to Jordan and he has lead the league in the stat for 6 straight seasons, has pretty much been the undisputed best player in the World for at least half a decade.

Kobe has longevity and it a better scorer but Lebron is better now than Kobe ever was throughout his career, and he is a much, much more complete player.

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04-09-2013, 09:19 PM
  #66
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I'd like to see some more outta lbj before I start calling him a top ten all time player. Besides MVP, what has he done really? Won an nba final with arguably the 2nd most dominate team in history. Idk, I just don't think he's top 10 just yet.

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04-09-2013, 09:35 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by lboogie42 View Post
I'd like to see some more outta lbj before I start calling him a top ten all time player. Besides MVP, what has he done really? Won an nba final with arguably the 2nd most dominate team in history. Idk, I just don't think he's top 10 just yet.
Umm kobe played with shaq. Who is considered the greatest center or 2nd at least and is a top 10 player all time. Some would argue he was greater than kobe.

wade isnt a top 20 player of all time and that heat team isnt that great when compared to other all time teams. Lebron really masks alot of their weaknesses.

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04-09-2013, 09:46 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by lboogie42 View Post
I'd like to see some more outta lbj before I start calling him a top ten all time player. Besides MVP, what has he done really? Won an nba final with arguably the 2nd most dominate team in history. Idk, I just don't think he's top 10 just yet.
He took a Cavalier team whose second best player was Larry Hughes to the finals.

The year before he left Cleveland they won 61 games. The year he left, with no other significant roster changes, they won 19 games. A 42-win swing because of one player. To put that in context, when Jordan retired the first time the Bulls went from a 57-win team to a 55-win team.

Over his career, Lebron beats Kobe in FG%, 3Pt%, Rebounds per game, assists per game, steals per game, blocks per game and points per game. He also has 3 MVPs(about to be 4) and 1 Finals MVP and has been an All-NBA player every season he has been in the league.

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04-09-2013, 09:53 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by lboogie42 View Post
Lebron? U serious?
LeBron is so far beyond Kobe at this point. Imagine him being blessed with a prime Shaquille O'Neal we'd be talking about him passing MJ's 6.

LeBron is just unbelievably more efficient and well-rounded.

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04-09-2013, 10:31 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by lboogie42 View Post
Rather have kobe over all of them but mj and magic.
and how many of them did you actually see play the game?

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04-09-2013, 10:58 PM
  #71
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I'm 95% sure the wings would not have won any of their last 4 championships without Lidstrom.

I wouldn't say the same for the Lakers and Kobe.


Lidstrom was more important for his team than Kobe was for his. Yeah Kobe is was more marketable, but the Lakers are the most popular franchise in the NBA. It's not like they needed him.

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04-10-2013, 04:46 PM
  #72
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Lbj has wade, bosh, and arguably the greatest 3 point shooter of all time.

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04-10-2013, 05:00 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by magix View Post
Umm kobe played with shaq. Who is considered the greatest center or 2nd at least and is a top 10 player all time. Some would argue he was greater than kobe.

wade isnt a top 20 player of all time and that heat team isnt that great when compared to other all time teams. Lebron really masks alot of their weaknesses.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkinsFan09 View Post
LeBron is so far beyond Kobe at this point. Imagine him being blessed with a prime Shaquille O'Neal we'd be talking about him passing MJ's 6.

LeBron is just unbelievably more efficient and well-rounded.
AND, kobe won TWO championships after shaq was gone, and continued to put up the same numbers he did when he was playing with shaq.

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04-10-2013, 05:52 PM
  #74
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NBA basketball is much less of a "team sport" than is hockey. I'm going with Bryant.

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04-10-2013, 06:16 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Awesomesauce View Post
and how many of them did you actually see play the game?
Which seems to be the standard response whenever someone has an opinion about a player or players that you might disagree with. I never saw Wilt play, so should my opinion of him be discounted?

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