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Old
04-07-2013, 11:39 PM
  #126
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Punk/Taker was worth it just for Heyman. He was fantastic tonight.


Lesnar was sweating BUCKETS tonight, he nearly turned the ring into a swimming pool.

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04-07-2013, 11:39 PM
  #127
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Folly. If turning Cena heel made Vince money he would do it without blinking. Vince has been riding Cena to the bank for years now, isn't gonna change just to pacify the middle aged men who boo the guy they wish they could be. And that's not a knock. That's just reality. Cena relishes the man heat and it makes him look that much better the way he deals with it on camera.Booing the guy puts more money in Vinces pocket considering those same parents who take those kids to see him see a good guy who takes the high road and turns the bad into a positive. Why turn that heel? What good comes out of turning the only certified money maker Vince has into a bad guy? Who can take Cenas spot?

This whole "turn Cena heel" stuff needs to stop. Isnt gonna happen, nor should it.
Yeah it's not like the 2 biggest money makers in wrestling history ever turned heel or anything.

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04-07-2013, 11:40 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by Martini View Post
Folly. If turning Cena heel made Vince money he would do it without blinking. Vince has been riding Cena to the bank for years now, isn't gonna change just to pacify the middle aged men who boo the guy they wish they could be. And that's not a knock. That's just reality. Cena relishes the man heat and it makes him look that much better the way he deals with it on camera.Booing the guy puts more money in Vinces pocket considering those same parents who take those kids to see him see a good guy who takes the high road and turns the bad into a positive. Why turn that heel? What good comes out of turning the only certified money maker Vince has into a bad guy? Who can take Cenas spot?

This whole "turn Cena heel" stuff needs to stop. Isnt gonna happen, nor should it.
All valid points...with the exception of the bolded.

Cena has been the same character for how many years now? He's getting a majority of "Boo's" most nights out there. Vince and Co. need to remember just who is paying to come watch the show, and that's the Males 18-49, even if that is not the WWE's "target demo" anymore, they are the ones who are shelling out the money and buying merchandise.

But to say that Cena "shouldn't" be turned Heel is something that doesn't seem right, the fans are begging for it, and afterall, aren't we always told that it's the "WWE Universe that controls the fate"?

The WWE are going to find themselves in the same situation they had with Punk when they were trying to get the crowd to hate him, it just couldn't be done for a while. Cena vs Any Heel is just going to result in the crowds cheering the heel that they will result to having the heel go for cheap heat, just like they had Punk doing, and just like Punk the crowds will go right back to cheering the heel as soon as they forget whatever disparaging comment he makes against the town/local sports team.

But I feel that you're wrong here. If the WWE keeps ignoring that the majority of the fans WANT to hate Cena, they're going to lose those fans, and lose an opportunity that they had with Hogan all those years ago (before he left for WCW and turned "Hollywood")

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04-07-2013, 11:40 PM
  #129
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You're assuming that Vince knows what makes money in this business in 2013.
But you are assuming that readers on a message board know what will make money over a guy who is a billionare at his craft.

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04-07-2013, 11:41 PM
  #130
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Yeah it's not like the 2 biggest money makers in wrestling history ever turned heel or anything.
And that means what, now?

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04-07-2013, 11:42 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by RockLobster View Post
All valid points...with the exception of the bolded.

Cena has been the same character for how many years now? He's getting a majority of "Boo's" most nights out there. Vince and Co. need to remember just who is paying to come watch the show, and that's the Males 18-49, even if that is not the WWE's "target demo" anymore, they are the ones who are shelling out the money and buying merchandise.

But to say that Cena "shouldn't" be turned Heel is something that doesn't seem right, the fans are begging for it, and afterall, aren't we always told that it's the "WWE Universe that controls the fate"?

The WWE are going to find themselves in the same situation they had with Punk when they were trying to get the crowd to hate him, it just couldn't be done for a while. Cena vs Any Heel is just going to result in the crowds cheering the heel that they will result to having the heel go for cheap heat, just like they had Punk doing, and just like Punk the crowds will go right back to cheering the heel as soon as they forget whatever disparaging comment he makes against the town/local sports team.

But I feel that you're wrong here. If the WWE keeps ignoring that the majority of the fans WANT to hate Cena, they're going to lose those fans, and lose an opportunity that they had with Hogan all those years ago (before he left for WCW and turned "Hollywood")
Majority of fans do not want to hate Cena. IWC isnt the majority. Teenagers and middle aged men are the majority.

WWE is aiming at kids with Cena and they are making money. Let it be already.

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04-07-2013, 11:45 PM
  #132
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Majority of fans do not want to hate Cena. IWC isnt the majority. Teenagers and middle aged men are the majority.

WWE is aiming at kids with Cena and they are making money. Let it be already.
I'm sorry, I guess I must be mishearing the louder "Cena Sucks" chants over the "Let's go Cena" chants? I must also be mishearing the "Boo's" he's getting at nearly every live show/Raw when he comes out?

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04-07-2013, 11:47 PM
  #133
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But you are assuming that readers on a message board know what will make money over a guy who is a billionare at his craft.
McMahon isn't a billionaire at his craft.

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04-07-2013, 11:48 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by RockLobster View Post
All valid points...with the exception of the bolded.

Cena has been the same character for how many years now? He's getting a majority of "Boo's" most nights out there. Vince and Co. need to remember just who is paying to come watch the show, and that's the Males 18-49, even if that is not the WWE's "target demo" anymore, they are the ones who are shelling out the money and buying merchandise.

But to say that Cena "shouldn't" be turned Heel is something that doesn't seem right, the fans are begging for it, and afterall, aren't we always told that it's the "WWE Universe that controls the fate"?

The WWE are going to find themselves in the same situation they had with Punk when they were trying to get the crowd to hate him, it just couldn't be done for a while. Cena vs Any Heel is just going to result in the crowds cheering the heel that they will result to having the heel go for cheap heat, just like they had Punk doing, and just like Punk the crowds will go right back to cheering the heel as soon as they forget whatever disparaging comment he makes against the town/local sports team.

But I feel that you're wrong here. If the WWE keeps ignoring that the majority of the fans WANT to hate Cena, they're going to lose those fans, and lose an opportunity that they had with Hogan all those years ago (before he left for WCW and turned "Hollywood")
Ok. How about "turning Cena heel now when there isn't a single person on the roster who can take his place is a bad idea?". Its just not good business.Anybody can fantasy book what they would like to see but the end result is, Cena makes money. The best case scenario is getting those same kids now who are making their parents buy Cena merchandise to get complacent with him and then latch onto the next big thing then turn Cena heel, the problem is, that person hasn't shown up yet. And don't give me "well this person can take the ball and run" because if that was the case they would have. Cena is stuck in his spot. More so then anybody ever in the history of the sport. Why? Because he went thru what, three directional phases of the E while he has been there and was stuck being the superman to the audience Vince is trying to capture. Its just how it is.

Its not like Cena was the reason the match stunk tonight.

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04-07-2013, 11:48 PM
  #135
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But you are assuming that readers on a message board know what will make money over a guy who is a billionare at his craft.
A guy who used to be a billionaire but has literally lost hundreds of millions since Cena became his top guy.

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04-07-2013, 11:50 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by RockLobster View Post
I'm sorry, I guess I must be mishearing the louder "Cena Sucks" chants over the "Let's go Cena" chants? I must also be mishearing the "Boo's" he's getting at nearly every live show/Raw when he comes out?
Hes getting a reaction, good for him. Means nothing.

Now, if those cash registers suddenly stopped ringing.......

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04-07-2013, 11:50 PM
  #137
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I remember seeing that and saying "WTF is HHH covered in?".
me too

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04-07-2013, 11:51 PM
  #138
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I was blown away with how ridiculous the Brock/HHH match was... No ****ing way in hell would Brock, the former UFC Heavyweight Champ, find himself in a kimura against a guy who's most likely NEVER practised MMA. For the sake of argument though, let's say that he was put in it.. You'd think a guy with his training, expertise, would be able to escape it just a bit easier.. And no ****ing way would he, after being put in it and escaping, leave his arm on the guys chest to be put back in the kimura 3 ****ING TIMES.
I was saying how theres no way Lesnar should tap here and yet, the fact that it crossed my mind scared me. The possibility was very real.

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04-07-2013, 11:51 PM
  #139
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If you don't find them interesting and entertaining, the show might not be for you. They have everything. They have a beast in Reigns who looks like a monster, dominates the ring like a monster, yet still can sell. They have an in-ring top guy in Rollins who can probably wrestle with anyone in the business. They have the ultimate psychological character in Ambrose who over-sells like HBK used to and can cut a sadistic promo like the beloved Joker character from Dark Knight.

I mean.. there is a little bit of everything there. I can't imagine how a single wrestling fan would not enjoy at least part of their team. Maybe this show just isn't for you.
I don't have a problem with the guys in The Shield. I just have a problem with the way they are being booked. It's getting repetitive.

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04-07-2013, 11:53 PM
  #140
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Hes getting a reaction, good for him. Means nothing.

Now, if those cash registers suddenly stopped ringing.......
When you get 'boring' chants, that's not good at all. That's verging on to x-pac heat.

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04-07-2013, 11:55 PM
  #141
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McMahon isn't a billionaire at his craft.

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Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
A guy who used to be a billionaire but has literally lost hundreds of millions since Cena became his top guy.
But is willing to throw hundreds of millions of dollars towards a full fledged wrestling channel that has fail written all over it? Who funded how much money for two political campaigns for his wife that he knew she would lose? The XFL?

I honestly think many here have no idea just how much money Vince McMahon actually has.....

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04-07-2013, 11:58 PM
  #142
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When you get 'boring' chants, that's not good at all. That's verging on to x-pac heat.

Do you know what that term means?

http://wallsofjerichoholic.blogspot....t-is-myth.html

There is nothing "Xpac heat" about John Cena.

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04-08-2013, 12:00 AM
  #143
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Ok. How about "turning Cena heel now when there isn't a single person on the roster who can take his place is a bad idea?". Its just not good business.Anybody can fantasy book what they would like to see but the end result is, Cena makes money. The best case scenario is getting those same kids now who are making their parents buy Cena merchandise to get complacent with him and then latch onto the next big thing then turn Cena heel, the problem is, that person hasn't shown up yet. And don't give me "well this person can take the ball and run" because if that was the case they would have. Cena is stuck in his spot. More so then anybody ever in the history of the sport. Why? Because he went thru what, three directional phases of the E while he has been there and was stuck being the superman to the audience Vince is trying to capture. Its just how it is.

Its not like Cena was the reason the match stunk tonight.
The WWE hasn't really given anyone a chance to be that Top guy have they? Best opportunity they've had in a long while was CM Punk after his shoot promo and after MITB, but instead of actually following through on the Punk vs. Authority (Laurinaitis) storyline, they shoe-horn Cena into it. Cena is "stuck in his spot" as you say because he doesn't want to give it up, plain and simple. Just look at how they booked Ziggler after he went over Cena at TLC. Followed it up with 2 Raw's in a row where Cena "overcame all the odds" to beat Ziggler. For what reason? What purpose did that server other than to push Ziggler back down the ladder?

And the whole "merchandise" excuse is getting lame, because when Punk was face his T-Shirts were outselling Cena's (before Raw 1000).

Your whole argument of "it's a turn for the sake of a turn" doesn't really hold any water here. If we were discussing Sting's heel turn in WCW at Fall Brawl, because that was a "Turn for the sake of a turn" and didn't really do anything, in fact, fans cheered Sting more because he turned on a Face Hogan that the crowd absolutely hated anyway.

None of what I'm saying is meant to be bringing Cena down. His character is stale, he needs a change. He's got the talent...though at this stage I really question his promo work because they're all so damn boring. But he's got the tools. He's just so far past the point of needing a change that it's gotten funny.

The only way for things to change is for people to stop showing up, that's what will get Vince's attention. Because I am pissed that I paid $70 + taxes to watch "SuperCena" kick out of an inordinate amount of Rock Bottom's all of that, only to have him go over squeaky clean. It's the same old stuff, and as part of the Audience that helps keep the WWE going, it's getting to the point where I have no problem putting my wallet back into my pocket, and turning the channel...which is what I'm planning on doing tomorrow. The moment Cena comes out, I will flip to something else, I'm sick and tired of his doofy-ass face looking so smug and delivering his horrible promo's...which let's face it, we'll be getting that tomorrow at some point.

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04-08-2013, 12:02 AM
  #144
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Do you know what that term means?

http://wallsofjerichoholic.blogspot....t-is-myth.html

There is nothing "Xpac heat" about John Cena.


Yes, I do. When people are chanting 'boring' to the top guy, that means people are sick of his **** and want him to gtfo/change. That's go-away/X-Pac heat.

You tell yourself what you wanna tell yourself. People are sick of his ****.

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04-08-2013, 12:04 AM
  #145
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Originally Posted by Martini View Post
But is willing to throw hundreds of millions of dollars towards a full fledged wrestling channel that has fail written all over it? Who funded how much money for two political campaigns for his wife that he knew she would lose? The XFL?

I honestly think many here have no idea just how much money Vince McMahon actually has.....
He is still very wealthy, but he was at one point a legit billionaire. The XFL was also not a huge money pit. It did fail, but only lost a reported 30-35 million. Vince has lost considerably more than that with his poor WWE product since 2005.

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04-08-2013, 12:06 AM
  #146
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Originally Posted by Martini View Post

Do you know what that term means?

http://wallsofjerichoholic.blogspot....t-is-myth.html

There is nothing "Xpac heat" about John Cena.
Your response to what is a subjective term is someone else's opinion that it's a myth based on their opinion of the whole thing. Good job.

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04-08-2013, 12:10 AM
  #147
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Your response to what is a subjective term is someone else's opinion that it's a myth based on their opinion of the whole thing. Good job.
That blog post basically boils down to "I can't tell the difference between heel heat and x-pac heat so it doesn't exist".

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04-08-2013, 12:29 AM
  #148
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The WWE hasn't really given anyone a chance to be that Top guy have they?
Ummm, Ryback?
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Best opportunity they've had in a long while was CM Punk after his shoot promo and after MITB, but instead of actually following through on the Punk vs. Authority (Laurinaitis) storyline, they shoe-horn Cena into it. Cena is "stuck in his spot" as you say because he doesn't want to give it up, plain and simple. Just look at how they booked Ziggler after he went over Cena at TLC. Followed it up with 2 Raw's in a row where Cena "overcame all the odds" to beat Ziggler. For what reason? What purpose did that server other than to push Ziggler back down the ladder?
If CM Punk is the top face of any major promotion, then that isn't a major promotion.Punk is a great worker who is better off being beat then being the guy in the ring at the end of the PPV. He is atm, the anti-Cena and that's basicly it. He is the marks champion who cuts worked shoot promos that are all telegraphed thru writers and nothing more. He did his best against an out of shape slug tonight, and that's what he brings. Could he be the guy who over comes the fresh, clean cut baby that is Cena? Absolutely not. Only because he doesn't have that "it" factor in that others outside of the dedicated fans take or see him as a serious bad ass, while Cena looks the part. If its cosmetic then guess what, that's all Cena needs.

Ziggler is a bump machine but is not in the class of even Punk in terms of actual taken seriously. He has been mishandled from day one. Isnt his fault but isn't worthy of being in the last match.
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And the whole "merchandise" excuse is getting lame, because when Punk was face his T-Shirts were outselling Cena's (before Raw 1000).
But what about the toys? What about the squeakly clean image that Cena has that suddenly makes companies want to sign onto over a small guy with a boat load of tats who looks like he slept in an alley way more then once? Cenas image makes Vince more money then Punks T-shirts, just sayin.
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Your whole argument of "it's a turn for the sake of a turn" doesn't really hold any water here. If we were discussing Sting's heel turn in WCW at Fall Brawl, because that was a "Turn for the sake of a turn" and didn't really do anything, in fact, fans cheered Sting more because he turned on a Face Hogan that the crowd absolutely hated anyway.
Different time frame. WCW has so over booked and without a head nothing from that time from them even registers.
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None of what I'm saying is meant to be bringing Cena down. His character is stale, he needs a change. He's got the talent...though at this stage I really question his promo work because they're all so damn boring. But he's got the tools. He's just so far past the point of needing a change that it's gotten funny.
But that's just your opinion. Cena, honestly, doesn't have to change.
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The only way for things to change is for people to stop showing up, that's what will get Vince's attention. Because I am pissed that I paid $70 + taxes to watch "SuperCena" kick out of an inordinate amount of Rock Bottom's all of that, only to have him go over squeaky clean. It's the same old stuff, and as part of the Audience that helps keep the WWE going, it's getting to the point where I have no problem putting my wallet back into my pocket, and turning the channel...which is what I'm planning on doing tomorrow. The moment Cena comes out, I will flip to something else, I'm sick and tired of his doofy-ass face looking so smug and delivering his horrible promo's...which let's face it, we'll be getting that tomorrow at some point.
Winner, bolded.

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04-08-2013, 12:29 AM
  #149
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Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
A guy who used to be a billionaire but has literally lost hundreds of millions since Cena became his top guy.
Uh. No, Cena didnt make Vince lose hundreds of millions. I dont know where you are getting that from. Cena wasnt even around when that happened.

As long as Vince makes tons of money from Cena hes not turning heel.I dont get whats so hard about this. Just because some doesnt like Cena doesnt mean he isnt a money machine for WWE. Crowd reaction isnt the whole story neither. If it was Cena would be a heel already.

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04-08-2013, 12:32 AM
  #150
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Yes, I do. When people are chanting 'boring' to the top guy, that means people are sick of his **** and want him to gtfo/change. That's go-away/X-Pac heat.

You tell yourself what you wanna tell yourself. People are sick of his ****.
XPac was never a main eventer, just filler TV time. John Cena gets a reaction from everybody, good and bad. Two different things and now that the E has actually admitted to the clash, it is now part of the programming.

Again, Cena has never had XPac heat.

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