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Marc Bergevin Drops The Ball As Canadiens Lose Alexei Emelin

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04-08-2013, 05:08 PM
  #151
Halifaxhab
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So, just to understand, a GM "dropped the ball" because he didnt make a trade last week to replace a player that just got hurt? This is a joke.

Why move all those higher picks for players close to the end, when we have similar (but less nhl experience) players in the system? Drewiske can play 14-17 mins, if Tinordi or Pateryn were calledf up they could pull off 8-9 mins.

This is a guy who is well know for spotting talent. He has also hired tons of staff to help in every aspect. So far this year, this team has shown it has good depth, and a top 9 fwd is returning, and a top4 d is on his way.

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04-08-2013, 05:20 PM
  #152
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Consider the depth we have with puck-moving defencemen (Markov, Subban, Diaz, Weber, Kaberle, Beaulieu); compared with physical guys (Subban, Emelin ... Tinordi? DD2?). We have a small top-9 and were already a bit light on the back end. In the playoffs the games get rough and the refs put the whistles away. Losing Emelin will be a huge challenge for the team going forward IMO. Who will step up?

Edit: okay since we're answering ourselves in this thread hehe -- I only saw one game with Pateryn but he has the size and PIM-rich background, could he chip in now as our big bad blueliner?


Last edited by JLP: 04-08-2013 at 05:42 PM. Reason: Pateryn
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04-08-2013, 05:32 PM
  #153
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The article doesn't suggest any dmen traded at the deadline the Habs should have upped the bidding for. I was in favor of a trade for Leopold, but not after seeing what it would have cost (the Cgy 2nd). I don't think you can make the case for acquiring a player without mentioning the return, or even any specific players by name.

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04-08-2013, 05:37 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
The bigger picture is putting your team in a position to win the cup every year. You can't keep falling for the "oh we'll be in a strong position next year" fallacy.

Now our blue line has Bouillon, a warm body who's played a handful of games the last few years and some of the greenest rookies in the league. Diaz who's concussed, Kaberle who we're not allowed to play, and Weber who's just plain awful.

We're going to be exposed on the back-end and it's the GMs fault - be he Bergevin or Gauthier or Gainey or Savard. You can't fanboy incompetence or lack of foresight no matter how snappy he dresses.

Next season will be even tougher because there is more travelling, more injuries, more cold streaks and a tighter cap - Boston got Jagr, Pittsburgh got Iginla, Morrow and Murray, the Rangers traded Gaborik for Brassard and Clowe... and the Habs got a 7th d-man to complete Dandouillon v2.
The bigger picture depends on how you crop it, I guess. In one of the recent games TSN showed a graphic of the 7 Canadian teams' 1st and 2nd round draft picks this summer. Aside from Calgary, which is in full detonation mode, Montreal looked to be in the best shape with its 4 top 60 picks.

By itself, that's not a big deal. But when you also look at the team's position, it is impressive. When you look at the team's position last year, and count the number of rookies and 2nd and 3rd year players, I think it's a very rosy picture. And then the team has rolled with 8 NHL defencemen all year long, added another at the deadline for a 5th round pick, and also auditioned 3 prospects, two of whom are recent 1st round picks.

For a team in transition, I think this is a perfect situation overall.

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04-08-2013, 06:12 PM
  #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
The article doesn't suggest any dmen traded at the deadline the Habs should have upped the bidding for. I was in favor of a trade for Leopold, but not after seeing what it would have cost (the Cgy 2nd). I don't think you can make the case for acquiring a player without mentioning the return, or even any specific players by name.
This ^. People like to make a case that we shouldve made a trade without specifying who we would be trading for. The price for a lot of the good names (murray,jbo,regerh) was very high, and for a team coming out of 15th in the east last year, and supporting an ahl team that is dead last, frankly, we cannot afford to just toss away picks and prospects on these type of rentals. We do not have enough prospect depth to afford it, yet. At the same time, there are a lot of teams in the running for the playoffs. This would mean that it is a sellers market, they hold all the cards. These depth defenders are not something that grow on trees, they are valuable, especially come the playoffs. So all these teams competing for the big show will seek to keep them.
Taking a quick look at the standings, only 5 teams are really far out of the playoffs (florida, tampa, carolina, colorado,calgary). All other teams are either in the playoffs, atm, or within 4-5 pts of being in them. So why should those teams give up their own depth defensemen? All in all, this creates a shortage of available dmen, which raises the price of those who are on display, since there are more bidders than sellers, resulting in the high price paid for quality dmen on deadline day.

Short version, short season -> close playoff race-> not a lot of sellers->shortage of supply in available quality dmen -> high price for those dmen = not worth it from our standpoint(coming out from a 15th in east finish last year, combined with many years worth of mismanagement of assets resulting in lack of immediate depth in prospects, last years draft was amazing but those guys are still far away from being nhl ready need to continue to stock up)

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04-08-2013, 06:34 PM
  #156
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But Bergevin DID move at the deadline to acquire a depth d-man in case of injury. He couldn't have done better if he had a crystal ball.

I love Emelin but with our current asset he's far from irrepleacable, especially if and when Diaz returns.

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04-08-2013, 06:40 PM
  #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slashers98 View Post
Marc Bergevin Drops The Ball As Canadiens Lose Alexei Emelin
http://thehockeywriters.com/marc-ber...alexei-emelin/

Feel free to agree or disagree with me!
No GM can be blamed for dropping the ball because of an injury.

And I wanted Bergevin to make a couple of moves.

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04-08-2013, 06:43 PM
  #158
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Disagree.

Obviously, an injury can not be foreseen; especially not a fluke one such as the Emelin injury. Beyond that, we have Kaberle. We have Diaz and Weber returning from injury shortly, as well as the three kids that have been given a chance to taste the NHL and adjust their games accordingly.

If anything, Bergeron has taken more precautions to ensure this team HAS defensive depth than any other GM I can remember.

No matter the story; we will always have negative Nancies such as the article writer who have ridiculous expectations. This article is on par with all the other garbage journalists and drama-seekers that already circle this team like the vultures they are, so I suppose you have your sights set on a job with one of those publications in the near future.

In my mind, the ONLY questionable decisions made by Bergeron are the extensions of Desharnais and to Bouillion. Other than that, he has the potential to be the best GM we've had since the glory days of yore.

Darkest day in Habs history, v.19.

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04-08-2013, 06:49 PM
  #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Halifaxhab View Post
So, just to understand, a GM "dropped the ball" because he didnt make a trade last week to replace a player that just got hurt? This is a joke.

Why move all those higher picks for players close to the end, when we have similar (but less nhl experience) players in the system? Drewiske can play 14-17 mins, if Tinordi or Pateryn were calledf up they could pull off 8-9 mins.

This is a guy who is well know for spotting talent. He has also hired tons of staff to help in every aspect. So far this year, this team has shown it has good depth, and a top 9 fwd is returning, and a top4 d is on his way.
Dude lets do a little math...

If Drew at #4 is playing 14 mins and Tinordi at #6 plays 8 mins and lets say Boullion is playing 18 mins, that totals 40 mins for your bottom three dman.

That leaves 80 mins between Subban, Georges and Markov.
Average 27 mins each dman a game. Maybe you can get away with that for one, two, maybe three weeks in the playoffs.. then what?

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04-08-2013, 06:55 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by Habs13 View Post
Disagree.

Obviously, an injury can not be foreseen; especially not a fluke one such as the Emelin injury. Beyond that, we have Kaberle. We have Diaz and Weber returning from injury shortly, as well as the three kids that have been given a chance to taste the NHL and adjust their games accordingly.

If anything, Bergeron has taken more precautions to ensure this team HAS defensive depth than any other GM I can remember.

No matter the story; we will always have negative Nancies such as the article writer who have ridiculous expectations. This article is on par with all the other garbage journalists and drama-seekers that already circle this team like the vultures they are, so I suppose you have your sights set on a job with one of those publications in the near future.

In my mind, the ONLY questionable decisions made by Bergeron are the extensions of Desharnais and to Bouillion. Other than that, he has the potential to be the best GM we've had since the glory days of yore.

Darkest day in Habs history, v.19.
Contradict yourself much?
First you laud Bergevin's defensive depth and one sentence later you question Boullion's entension?

I like Boullion's signing for next year, cheap, moveable defensive depth dman. An insurance in case our youngsters need more seasoning.

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04-08-2013, 06:55 PM
  #161
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As with so many others here I totally disagree. The article seems very short sighted and does not take into account that MB cannot tell what is going to happen in the future.

I mean really, not picking up another defenceman will cause this team to miss the playoffs next year? Are you serious?

Also how is this a new article? This is an opinion piece at best, not news.

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04-08-2013, 06:59 PM
  #162
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Well I guess the Pens dropped the ball because they did not get a replacement for Crosby.

Boston also dropped the ball because Bergeron is injured.

Since both those teams picked up wingers instead of centers they really dropped it at least Montreal got a Dman at the deadline.

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04-08-2013, 07:00 PM
  #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WakeUpNHL View Post
Dude lets do a little math...

If Drew at #4 is playing 14 mins and Tinordi at #6 plays 8 mins and lets say Boullion is playing 18 mins, that totals 40 mins for your bottom three dman.

That leaves 80 mins between Subban, Georges and Markov.
Average 27 mins each dman a game. Maybe you can get away with that for one, two, maybe three weeks in the playoffs.. then what?
I think Drew can easily play more than 14mins and Beaulieu/Tinordi more than 8. More like 18/14 respectively. Have Subban play 26, Markov&Gorges 24. They can easily do it.

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04-08-2013, 07:01 PM
  #164
Halifaxhab
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Originally Posted by WakeUpNHL View Post
Dude lets do a little math...

If Drew at #4 is playing 14 mins and Tinordi at #6 plays 8 mins and lets say Boullion is playing 18 mins, that totals 40 mins for your bottom three dman.

That leaves 80 mins between Subban, Georges and Markov.
Average 27 mins each dman a game. Maybe you can get away with that for one, two, maybe three weeks in the playoffs.. then what?
Maybe they can play more too. The basics is that these guys can pick up some of the lost minutes. Bottom line, we have depth. We can use that mean dman, but we have the pieces in place that are capable of eating the minutes needed to.

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04-08-2013, 07:13 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by WakeUpNHL View Post
Dude lets do a little math...

If Drew at #4 is playing 14 mins and Tinordi at #6 plays 8 mins and lets say Boullion is playing 18 mins, that totals 40 mins for your bottom three dman.

That leaves 80 mins between Subban, Georges and Markov.
Average 27 mins each dman a game. Maybe you can get away with that for one, two, maybe three weeks in the playoffs.. then what?
Tinordi (or Beaulieu) at 8 min??

Drew at 14?? What is he... a rookie??

You exaggerate to make a workable situation sound bleak.

Glad you aren't the coach.

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04-08-2013, 07:16 PM
  #166
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If worst comes to worst we can always use Frédéric St-Denis who is the only + D in Hamilton.

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04-08-2013, 07:24 PM
  #167
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How does a blog from a no name is being described has a news article is beyong me. Ridiculous article, but this kid is entitle to his opinion i guess...


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04-08-2013, 07:30 PM
  #168
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Originally Posted by WakeUpNHL View Post
Contradict yourself much?
First you laud Bergevin's defensive depth and one sentence later you question Boullion's entension?

I like Boullion's signing for next year, cheap, moveable defensive depth dman. An insurance in case our youngsters need more seasoning.
Where is the contradiction? The Habs have good depth this year... does that mean that the oldest member of the squad needed to be given an extension at all, not to mention mid-way through the season?

Who else will be available come FA season? Might there be better options to inquire about? I suppose that falls into Bergeron's lack of clairvoyance the same way his failure to acquire a replacement for a player that wasn't yet injured does?!

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04-08-2013, 08:16 PM
  #169
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The author of the article is an aspiring journalist. As a journalist, the job is to entertain, get people talking/reading. Almost 200 posts, job well done.

I do not really agree, but that is not the point.

I think the author could have explored his thesis more, rather than spend most of the article reviewing the history.

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04-08-2013, 08:29 PM
  #170
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Ok I just lost IQ points reading that article. First of all Drewiske is not a journeyman defenseman he's played his entire career for one team. Second who says he can't play top 4 minutes? And 3rd he never was given a chance with the kings because of their depth at D. 4th we have plenty of depth on the farm Beaulieu or Tinordi will fill in just fine.

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04-08-2013, 08:30 PM
  #171
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Historically, a defenseman who is capable of playing in the NHL at all is capable of making a contribution as a rookie playoff call-up. This has been true, for the Habs alone, of Lapointe, Robinson, Chelios and most recently Subban. If Beaulieu is the real thing, he can help now. If Diaz comes back , there shouldn't be a problem.

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04-08-2013, 08:35 PM
  #172
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Well I guess the Pens dropped the ball because they did not get a replacement for Crosby.

Boston also dropped the ball because Bergeron is injured.

Since both those teams picked up wingers instead of centers they really dropped it at least Montreal got a Dman at the deadline.
Well they did add Iggy and Morrow. I feel like the Habs could have really made a run if they were able to grab a top4-5 dman and another forward. They didn't do that. Now Emelin gets injured. Our defensive depth was thin enough..now it's even thinner.

'm not going to blame Bergie, but I do wish he solidified the D at the deadline.

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04-08-2013, 08:37 PM
  #173
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Originally Posted by SherbrookeW View Post
Historically, a defenseman who is capable of playing in the NHL at all is capable of making a contribution as a rookie playoff call-up. This has been true, for the Habs alone, of Lapointe, Robinson, Chelios and most recently Subban. If Beaulieu is the real thing, he can help now. If Diaz comes back , there shouldn't be a problem.
We have enough non-physical, offensive minded dmen. This has been my issue with our dcorps for a while now. The lack of muscle. Now Emelin is gone. We have arguably one of the softest dcorps going into the playoffs IMO.

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04-08-2013, 08:41 PM
  #174
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Not sure if this as been posted but the Emelin hit on Lucic reminded me of this;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=167X7PjO6oo

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04-08-2013, 08:43 PM
  #175
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Disagree totally.

Why would Bergevin go for a player (who would cost some of the future, an absolute no no for his philopsophy -- a good thing) who was exactly like someone we lost to freak injury?

He picked up the exact kind of guy we were missing on a bottom pairing and then hoping as any GM would that you don't get unlucky with injuries, which is exactly the current situation -- unlucky.

It's not about contingencies, since if Emelin never gets injured, we have the exact top 6 we want + adding Diaz back if possible. Should we have traded for another Subban (not that you can) just in case Subban got injured?

Bad luck is bad luck and we have not given up the future. Now we'll just have to hope that Diaz's contributions will make up for Emelin's loss or that Drewiskie or tinordi/beaulieu can fill in admirably.

Again, remember that we didn't mortgage our future this deadline.

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