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Old
05-02-2013, 02:37 PM
  #776
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TehDoak View Post
So, how would everyone feel about the following:

A 'band aid' fix for the next year or two brings in a few veteran players (without giving up futures/picks)

My proposals are as follows:

To Buffalo: Statsny
To Colorado: Ennis

Ennis is younger, has put up similar production, and at a much lower cap hit. Statsny's production has trailed off, but really appears to be in desperate need of a change of scenery. This also gives us the option to extend or move him at the trade deadline depending on how he performs
Statsny for Ennis makes no sense on any level. Ennis out-produces him, Ennis is younger and Ennis is cheaper. Statsny doesn't bring the other skills (defense, physicality, faceoffs) neccesary to make that trade-off worthwhile.

Really the only reason why people even bring it up is because they have a burning hatred for centers who aren't 6' + .

Hell, I'd argue Ennis is a lot more physical and tougher than Stats. Ennis throws some big hits (I think he's guilty of leaving his feet a lot) and we've seen him really go after guys when he gets angry. I don't give a damn if the other guy is 6" taller, it doesn't make him a better player unless he puts it to good use. I watch a lot of Avs games and Stats is basically a slightly taller less brittle Tim Connolly.

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05-02-2013, 02:57 PM
  #777
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05-02-2013, 03:29 PM
  #778
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I have a question, we saw Foligno move to center at the end of last year, he finished winning 60% of his faceoffs. Does he stay at center next year? I like him as a bottom 6 center.

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05-02-2013, 03:47 PM
  #779
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyH3aven View Post
Statsny for Ennis makes no sense on any level. Ennis out-produces him, Ennis is younger and Ennis is cheaper. Statsny doesn't bring the other skills (defense, physicality, faceoffs) neccesary to make that trade-off worthwhile.

Really the only reason why people even bring it up is because they have a burning hatred for centers who aren't 6' + .

Hell, I'd argue Ennis is a lot more physical and tougher than Stats. Ennis throws some big hits (I think he's guilty of leaving his feet a lot) and we've seen him really go after guys when he gets angry. I don't give a damn if the other guy is 6" taller, it doesn't make him a better player unless he puts it to good use. I watch a lot of Avs games and Stats is basically a slightly taller less brittle Tim Connolly.
Statsny is 52% on faceoffs and was in the top 30 in total faceoffs and faceoff wins.

Their production is similar:

This year:

Ennis: 47 GP, 31 pts

Statsny: 40 GP, 24 pts

The big difference is that Stastny needs a change of scenery. Yes Ennis probably has some upside left and he hasn't peaked yet, however, what we will likely see from Ennis is a one dimisional winger who can score 50-60 pts. Those are great, but easily obtained.

Stastny has proven he can be a #1 center in this league, but his play has been on the decline for a while. Whether that's because of the big contract he got, quality ice time being force fed to duchene, or just bad coaching, it's up for the debate. However, I think I'd gamble on Stastny being able to return back to form in a contract year over Ennis ever breaking the 70 pt barrier.

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Old
05-02-2013, 04:11 PM
  #780
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TehDoak View Post
Statsny is 52% on faceoffs and was in the top 30 in total faceoffs and faceoff wins.

Their production is similar:

This year:

Ennis: 47 GP, 31 pts

Statsny: 40 GP, 24 pts

The big difference is that Stastny needs a change of scenery. Yes Ennis probably has some upside left and he hasn't peaked yet, however, what we will likely see from Ennis is a one dimisional winger who can score 50-60 pts. Those are great, but easily obtained.

Stastny has proven he can be a #1 center in this league, but his play has been on the decline for a while. Whether that's because of the big contract he got, quality ice time being force fed to duchene, or just bad coaching, it's up for the debate. However, I think I'd gamble on Stastny being able to return back to form in a contract year over Ennis ever breaking the 70 pt barrier.
Paul Stastny is not a #1 center. He is very comparable to Derek Roy as a player. I think we have a #2 center in Hodgson, I dont think Stastny is a #1.

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Old
05-02-2013, 04:23 PM
  #781
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TehDoak View Post
Statsny is 52% on faceoffs and was in the top 30 in total faceoffs and faceoff wins.

Their production is similar:

This year:

Ennis: 47 GP, 31 pts

Statsny: 40 GP, 24 pts

The big difference is that Stastny needs a change of scenery. Yes Ennis probably has some upside left and he hasn't peaked yet, however, what we will likely see from Ennis is a one dimisional winger who can score 50-60 pts. Those are great, but easily obtained.

Stastny has proven he can be a #1 center in this league, but his play has been on the decline for a while. Whether that's because of the big contract he got, quality ice time being force fed to duchene, or just bad coaching, it's up for the debate. However, I think I'd gamble on Stastny being able to return back to form in a contract year over Ennis ever breaking the 70 pt barrier.
The problem is you're giving away 3 or 4 years (can't remember) of club control of Ennis for one year of Stastny when the team isn't trying to contend. It's a ridiculous rental and to keep him would cost a lot of money. I agree with your sentiments on Ennis but if you're going to trade him, you should be getting a different young player with more years of club control.

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Old
05-02-2013, 04:44 PM
  #782
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TehDoak View Post
Statsny is 52% on faceoffs and was in the top 30 in total faceoffs and faceoff wins.

Their production is similar:

This year:

Ennis: 47 GP, 31 pts

Statsny: 40 GP, 24 pts

The big difference is that Stastny needs a change of scenery. Yes Ennis probably has some upside left and he hasn't peaked yet, however, what we will likely see from Ennis is a one dimisional winger who can score 50-60 pts. Those are great, but easily obtained.

Stastny has proven he can be a #1 center in this league, but his play has been on the decline for a while. Whether that's because of the big contract he got, quality ice time being force fed to duchene, or just bad coaching, it's up for the debate. However, I think I'd gamble on Stastny being able to return back to form in a contract year over Ennis ever breaking the 70 pt barrier.
Good points, I agree on a good portion of them. Stastny is certainly the better "center" between he and Ennis. Meaning he'd be better at winning draws and matching up defensively against other teams offensive threats. I do also think he could bounce back and have somewhere around a 70 point season in the right situation. Stastny certainly isn't a guy who's big in stature nor does he play big, but Ennis' size can definitely work against him at times whereas that isn't an issue with Statsny. An example of a guy who is small in stature but throws his body around would be Gerbe not Ennis so comparing Stastny to Connoly and talking about the hits Ennis throws just doesn't add up to me. Both players are skill guys and are relatively soft. The reason I wouldn't trade Ennis for Statsny is that Ennis is much younger and is locked up long term. Stastny would very likely not re-sign here and if that ends up being the case why make the trade? Sure you could move him at the deadline for futures, but Ennis is more than young enough to stick around through a rebuild and be a player in his prime when we are ready to compete again. I would consider moving Ennis if it meant moving up in the draft to draft an impact guy (Barkov) or if it meant getting a young top 6 forward back ala Bobby Ryan.

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05-02-2013, 05:07 PM
  #783
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We need more SPEED. Our team is entirely to slow. Ennis is a perfect winger once we get our young Center depth progressing as planned.

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05-02-2013, 07:51 PM
  #784
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--Thomas Vanek to Philadelphia for Matt Read, Nick Cousins, No. 11.
Want absoutely nothing whatsoever to do with Cousins, I don't care if the charges were dropped.

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05-02-2013, 08:51 PM
  #785
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Want absoutely nothing whatsoever to do with Cousins, I don't care if the charges were dropped.
I concur. Charges like that even just being brought up against him only reinforce what's been said about his character or lack thereof. Incredible talent, bad person I'll pass.

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Old
05-03-2013, 08:54 AM
  #786
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Any interest in acquiring Coburn? Apparently some Philly fans believe he won't be back next year, I think he could be a fantastic partner for Myers. Mean, physical, mobile and a stay at home guy. I don't know what it'd take, but he could fit like a glove. Lord knows we could use some physicality on the back end.

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05-03-2013, 10:05 AM
  #787
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SabresAreScaryGood View Post
Paul Stastny is not a #1 center. He is very comparable to Derek Roy as a player. I think we have a #2 center in Hodgson, I dont think Stastny is a #1.
Stastny would be a good #2/#3 2-way point producing centre. He'd be a solid pickup but I doubt Colorado would be so willing to part with him if they get Jones, they'd probably want to add and make a run at the playoffs.

I see Hodgon as a decent #1 centre atm though btw, getting better. Not perfect, but certainly good enough for us.

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05-03-2013, 10:23 AM
  #788
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Originally Posted by Stop Winnin View Post
Any interest in acquiring Coburn? Apparently some Philly fans believe he won't be back next year, I think he could be a fantastic partner for Myers. Mean, physical, mobile and a stay at home guy. I don't know what it'd take, but he could fit like a glove. Lord knows we could use some physicality on the back end.
Yes. I have no idea why the Flyers trade him but 100 times yes.

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Old
05-03-2013, 10:34 AM
  #789
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Yes. I have no idea why the Flyers trade him but 100 times yes.
Well Grossman and Schenn both play similar games, and I guess they need more mobility on their back end. Maybe they want Sekera? I'd be willing to swap Sekera for Coburn, we might have to add a little.

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05-03-2013, 10:41 AM
  #790
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Coburn would be a good pick up. I'd be interested if Philly wants to move him (always depends on the price though).

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05-03-2013, 10:50 AM
  #791
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Well Grossman and Schenn both play similar games, and I guess they need more mobility on their back end. Maybe they want Sekera? I'd be willing to swap Sekera for Coburn, we might have to add a little.
I'm not super into a lateral move like that. Getting older, more expensive and slower isn't something I wanna do. I'd rather flip a second, citing the value of Andrej Mezaros as an overpaid #3 coming off a down year.

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Old
05-03-2013, 10:59 AM
  #792
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I'm not super into a lateral move like that. Getting older, more expensive and slower isn't something I wanna do. I'd rather flip a second, citing the value of Andrej Mezaros as an overpaid #3 coming off a down year.
I doubt they would trade Coburn for a second, but yeah I don't want to overpay either.

I just think he and Myers would make a perfect pair, and would allow Myers to be more comfortable playing his game.

I'm hoping we can land Clarkson without overpaying too much. I mean we're paying 4 million to freakin' Drew Stafford. Clarkson probably won't hit 30 goals, but he'll bring physical play, he's willing to drop the mitts, is a fierce competitor and will probably pot in 20 goals or so.

He'll probably command 5m-ish on the market unfortunately. Someone's going to overpay big time.

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05-03-2013, 12:07 PM
  #793
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Originally Posted by Stop Winnin View Post
Well Grossman and Schenn both play similar games, and I guess they need more mobility on their back end. Maybe they want Sekera? I'd be willing to swap Sekera for Coburn, we might have to add a little.
Coburn is as mobile as they come

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05-03-2013, 12:09 PM
  #794
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Quote:
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Coburn is as mobile as they come
I was going to say...why would they get rid of Coburn if they want to get more mobile?


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05-03-2013, 12:11 PM
  #795
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Trading Coburn and any comments about fixing the Flyer defense occur paradoxically. He is their best defenseman.

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05-04-2013, 08:42 AM
  #796
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Haven't seen this around here yet, but Timo Seppa, managing editor of Hockey Prospectus, on a Sabres rebuild: http://audio.wgr550.com/a/73522552/4...hew-coller.htm


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05-04-2013, 09:15 AM
  #797
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*Disclaimer... I know this isn't very realistic (since there are so many trades involved), but what do you guys think of this sort of plan?

If Pegula is serious about wanting to win a cup and money spent NOW not being an issue.... he could always take on a massive buyout like DiPietro. I would think the Islanders would be willing to give someone quite a bit for taking on that contract. How about Miller and a 2nd for DiPietro, the rights to UFA Mark Streit, and Nino Niederreiter, and a 1st?

Why the Sabres do it:
The main piece, for Buffalo, is the 1st round draft pick (15th overall). Niederreiter is a decent prospect on the wing (which we need). We'll have the cap space to overpay Streit for 2-3 years before he retires (2 years, 10 million maybe). We can afford to buy-out DiPietro.

Why the Islanders do it:
Nabokov is 37 and a UFA. Miller will be an upgrade in goal. But the main thing will be getting out of the 4.5 million dollar annual payment to DiPietro. That alone is worth the cost of one mid-1st round pick. Neiderreiter has had some reported attitude issues.

I would also package pick 16 (Minnesota), Ennis & Sekera for pick 4 (Nashville) and take whoever remains of Drouin or Barkov (I would love to have either).

I would also trade our 2nd and Stafford to move back into the late 1st round (maybe pick 25, Calgary.... I think they'd be interested in Stafford).

My picks would be, hopefully...
#4 Drouin (winger)
#8 Nurse (defense)
#15 Best available winger (Erne, Shinkaruk, Hartman, Rychel, Mantha)
#25 Fucale (goalie)

My 2013/2014 Roster would be pretty terrible, on purpose

Forwards
Vanek-Hodgson-Tropp
Leino-Grigorenko-Ott
Foligno-Porter-Flynn
Scott-Schaller-Kaleta
(Gerbe)

Defense
Myers-Streit
Ehrhoff-Pysyk
Weber-McNabb
(Ruhwedel)

Enroth
Hackett

Cap Spent 49.5 million (somewhat close to the cap floor)

That would be a team that would pick near the beginning of the 2014 draft and add an even greater piece.

But I think in 2014/2015 the roster would really be taking shape for success. I think Vanek would resign in the summer, knowing that we have lots of good young talent coming up and a top draft pick to boot.

Forwards
Vanek-Hodgson-Drouin
Leino-Grigorenko-Armia
Larson-Girgensons-Tropp
Foligno-Schaller-Kaleta
Flynn/Niederreiter

Defense
Myers-Streit
Ehrhoff-Pysyk
McNabb-Nurse
Weber

Hackett
Enroth

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05-04-2013, 11:51 AM
  #798
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Haven't seen this around here yet, but Timo Seppa, managing editor of Hockey Prospectus, on a Sabres rebuild: http://audio.wgr550.com/a/73522552/4...hew-coller.htm
Nice...

Thanks for the post.

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05-04-2013, 05:38 PM
  #799
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We need more SPEED. Our team is entirely to slow. Ennis is a perfect winger once we get our young Center depth progressing as planned.
nah... Brendan Shanahan was a perfect winger

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05-04-2013, 05:47 PM
  #800
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nah... Brendan Shanahan was a perfect winger
That's a funny way to spell Jaro Jagr

e: slip

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