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Roy: Better as a Hab or an Av?

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04-20-2005, 04:32 PM
  #1
Big Phil
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Roy: Better as a Hab or an Av?

Which team was Patrick Roy better on. Which part of his career did he shine the best? Now dont be bias to all of you Homer fans out there it isnt no contest by the way if you look at the stats you'll see it was pretty close. But use your common sense on this one not your heart.

We all know Roy got traded in Dec. '95 from Montreal to Colorado. So here are his stats from each team. Montreal '85 to '95 and Colorado '95 to '03.

Roy's Montreal record: 551 games. 289-175-66
Roy's Colorado record: 478 games. 262-140-65

Roy's Montreal playoff record: 70-42
Roy's Colorado playoff record: 81-52

Roy's Montreal career shutouts (season): 29
Roy's Colorado career shutouts (season): 37

Roy's Montreal awards: Conn Smythe Trophy '86, '93, Vezina Trophy '89, '90 and '92, First all-star team '89, '90, '92, Second all-star team '88, '91. Stanley Cup in '86 and '93.

Roy's Colorado awards: Conn Smythe Trophy in '01, First all-star team in '02. Stanley Cup in '96 and '01.

Best Montreal season: '88-89 WLT 33-5-6 GAA 2.47 (led league)
Best Colorado season: '00-01 WLT 40-13-7 GAA 1.94 (led league)


So there you have it. How do you remember him best as? If you look at his stats you'd have to give the edge to the Avs in the regular season but come playoff time I'd take Montreal. Also if you look at his hardware from when he was in Montreal he was a Vezina winner three times. None in Colorado just once a first team all-star. Two Cups in each team but a Conn Smythe twice for Montreal. For the record though he was no slouch in '96 either, the only year he never won a Smythe.

To me he was a better Hab, but some people may disagree so lets hear it. To me I remember his '93 playoff run and I cant see anytime he was in Colorado that he did something that good. Oh and by the way as for both teams he was on some very, very good Habs teams too so dont just say he was only good cause the Avs were.

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04-20-2005, 05:36 PM
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil
Which team was Patrick Roy better on. Which part of his career did he shine the best? Now dont be bias to all of you Homer fans out there it isnt no contest by the way if you look at the stats you'll see it was pretty close. But use your common sense on this one not your heart.

We all know Roy got traded in Dec. '95 from Montreal to Colorado. So here are his stats from each team. Montreal '85 to '95 and Colorado '95 to '03.

Roy's Montreal record: 551 games. 289-175-66
Roy's Colorado record: 478 games. 262-140-65

Roy's Montreal playoff record: 70-42
Roy's Colorado playoff record: 81-52

Roy's Montreal career shutouts (season): 29
Roy's Colorado career shutouts (season): 37

Roy's Montreal awards: Conn Smythe Trophy '86, '93, Vezina Trophy '89, '90 and '92, First all-star team '89, '90, '92, Second all-star team '88, '91. Stanley Cup in '86 and '93.

Roy's Colorado awards: Conn Smythe Trophy in '01, First all-star team in '02. Stanley Cup in '96 and '01.

Best Montreal season: '88-89 WLT 33-5-6 GAA 2.47 (led league)
Best Colorado season: '00-01 WLT 40-13-7 GAA 1.94 (led league)


So there you have it. How do you remember him best as? If you look at his stats you'd have to give the edge to the Avs in the regular season but come playoff time I'd take Montreal. Also if you look at his hardware from when he was in Montreal he was a Vezina winner three times. None in Colorado just once a first team all-star. Two Cups in each team but a Conn Smythe twice for Montreal. For the record though he was no slouch in '96 either, the only year he never won a Smythe.

To me he was a better Hab, but some people may disagree so lets hear it. To me I remember his '93 playoff run and I cant see anytime he was in Colorado that he did something that good. Oh and by the way as for both teams he was on some very, very good Habs teams too so dont just say he was only good cause the Avs were.
He was definately a better av! When he went to Colorado the guy started performing much better then in hab town. When with the habs he had several bad seasons when he didnt even play as well as Racicot. I'm talking about 87, 88, 94 and 95. That's 4 years of bad hockey right there. Why do you think he was even traded? He wouldnt have been traded if he was playing great. Reason he didnt win any other vezinas in Colorado is because of Hasek but he definately played better in Colorado. Maybe bigger pads and a better team actually helped him more.

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04-20-2005, 06:47 PM
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Gee Wally
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as an av.

he was pretty damn good as a Hab...but he became arguably the greatest or at least top 3 in my book as an Av,

Great , great goalie IMO....

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04-20-2005, 06:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KOVALEV10
He was definately a better av! When he went to Colorado the guy started performing much better then in hab town. When with the habs he had several bad seasons when he didnt even play as well as Racicot. I'm talking about 87, 88, 94 and 95. That's 4 years of bad hockey right there. Why do you think he was even traded? He wouldnt have been traded if he was playing great. Reason he didnt win any other vezinas in Colorado is because of Hasek but he definately played better in Colorado. Maybe bigger pads and a better team actually helped him more.
Carrying over from the bad awards thread he was a finalist only 2 or 3 times as an Av. He even won 1st team All Star without getting the Vezina. Playing in the west and GMs not liking him forcing a trade worked against him.

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04-20-2005, 08:00 PM
  #5
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I think Roy played his best hockey during the 1986 playoffs. Therefore, I would say he played best with the Habs

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04-20-2005, 08:15 PM
  #6
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I'd say has a Avalanche. He played better with them then with Montreal. I only remember his last season in Montreal but my dad says he was alot better in Colorado then Montreal.

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04-20-2005, 11:53 PM
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I hate Roy -lets start with that. I don't get how people say he played soo much better as an Av - look at the team he had infront of him, if the Habs had half the talent the Avs had they would be challenging the Oilers for the 80's dynasty. The two cups he won with the Habds was some of the greatest playoff goaltending in history, he took and average 86 team and won the cup with then, almost single handedly and he pulled off that amazing streat of overtime victories in 93.

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04-21-2005, 10:16 AM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gr8haluschak
I don't get how people say he played soo much better as an Av - look at the team he had infront of him, if the Habs had half the talent the Avs had they would be challenging the Oilers for the 80's dynasty. The two cups he won with the Habds was some of the greatest playoff goaltending in history, he took and average 86 team and won the cup with then, almost single handedly and he pulled off that amazing streat of overtime victories in 93.
For real. How can this even be a discussion? He never had to lift the Avs on his back and carry them, the way he did in Montreal.

In one game while still with the Habs, he stopped, a ridiculous number shots against the Bruins, just days after having an appendectomy.

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04-21-2005, 11:07 AM
  #9
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Definitely a Hab.

While his GAA and sv% numbers were better in Colorado, that's because he played there post 1995, in the trap era .... while he played in Montreal during a higher scoring era.

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04-21-2005, 12:58 PM
  #10
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Well here are the years where his backups played better then him.

Montreal:

85-86:
Patrick Roy: 47 GP 3.35 .875
Doug Soetaert: 23 GP 2.77, .895

86-87:
Brian Hayward: 37 GP 2.81, .893
Patrick Roy: 46 GP 2.93, .891

87-88:
Brian Hayward: 39 GP 2.86, .896
Patrick Roy: 45 GP 2.90, .900

95-96:
Jocelyn Thibault: 40 GP 2.83, 0.913
Pat Jablonski: 23 GP: 2.94, 0.908
Patrick Roy: 22 GP, 2.95, 0.907

Colorado:

97-98:
craig Billington: 23 GP 2.32
Patrick Roy: 65 GP, 2.39

2001-02:
David Aebisher: 21 GP, 1.88, .931
Patrick Roy: 63 GP, 1.94, .925

This isnt the best way to judge which team he played better with, but its more reliable then looking at gaa or save percentage. So there you have it in his 9 years with the habs he had 4 bad seasons. With Colorado he only had 2 and the differences between him and his backups those 2 seasons are much less then the ones in Montreal.

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04-21-2005, 01:09 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Badger Bob
For real. How can this even be a discussion? He never had to lift the Avs on his back and carry them, the way he did in Montreal.

In one game while still with the Habs, he stopped, a ridiculous number shots against the Bruins, just days after having an appendectomy.

I think you are underestimating the talent that those Hab cup teams had on them.

Look back at the rosters, they were both pretty good. It was not a Roy only situation.

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04-21-2005, 09:54 PM
  #12
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Roy played his developing years in Mtl. so they would tend to weigh down his average. He played on better teams in Colorado so that would be a factor. His career seems to be judged on moments rather than the long haul, so you could go either way. The 86 and 93 teams were under rated to an extent, but let's face it, he took them over. He wasn't always the man in Mtl. though. Brian Hayward started playoff games ahead of him and he wasn't always the best in every matchup. Ask Mike Vernon and Andy Moog.

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04-21-2005, 11:20 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KOVALEV10
Well here are the years where his backups played better then him.

Montreal:

85-86:
Patrick Roy: 47 GP 3.35 .875
Doug Soetaert: 23 GP 2.77, .895


86-87:
Brian Hayward: 37 GP 2.81, .893
Patrick Roy: 46 GP 2.93, .891

87-88:
Brian Hayward: 39 GP 2.86, .896
Patrick Roy: 45 GP 2.90, .900

95-96:
Jocelyn Thibault: 40 GP 2.83, 0.913
Pat Jablonski: 23 GP: 2.94, 0.908
Patrick Roy: 22 GP, 2.95, 0.907

Colorado:

97-98:
craig Billington: 23 GP 2.32
Patrick Roy: 65 GP, 2.39

2001-02:
David Aebisher: 21 GP, 1.88, .931
Patrick Roy: 63 GP, 1.94, .925

This isnt the best way to judge which team he played better with, but its more reliable then looking at gaa or save percentage. So there you have it in his 9 years with the habs he had 4 bad seasons. With Colorado he only had 2 and the differences between him and his backups those 2 seasons are much less then the ones in Montreal.
Hard to call 85-86 a bad season when he won the Conn Smythe and a Stanley Cup.

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04-21-2005, 11:52 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewGuy
Hard to call 85-86 a bad season when he won the Conn Smythe and a Stanley Cup.
That's playoffs though not regular season.

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04-22-2005, 12:02 AM
  #15
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I think he had a more storied career in Montreal. Look at the awards he got during his time as a Hab. There are less numerous awards he achieved with Colorado.
But, with the Avalanche, his numbers got better and in his second last season I thought he probably deserved the Hart Trophy over Theodore. All in all, his careers with both teams were very comparable. I have to complement the poster who originated this topic, although others may not like it as much as I do.

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04-22-2005, 12:14 AM
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i identify roy with the canadiens more than with the avalanche. i know the question is which one we think he was better with, but honestly it's a little bit difficult for me to answer that.

the way i look at it is like this: even though the "divorce" between him and montreal was ugly, there has not been one player strong enough in my mind in recent memory to put on that habs uniform to surpass him as the "face" of the franchise. koivu is a nice player with a lot of heart, but when i think of montreal the first images in my mind are of roy. on the other hand, the avs have sakic, forsberg, and foote. when i think of colorado, these guys have come before roy.

now, i will point out that i've only been a true fan of the nhl since 1992, so i'm not the best source for this. and knowing that roy is a french-canadian no doubt plays into my reasoning. but again, any time i think of the habs, roy pops up so for me the choice is obvious.

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04-22-2005, 01:07 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogopogo
I think you are underestimating the talent that those Hab cup teams had on them.

Look back at the rosters, they were both pretty good. It was not a Roy only situation.
Not really. The '86 was beatable. They won against an exhausted Flames team.

Obviously memories of the '93 are much more recent. They had a decent team, but it was not considered a Cup contender, by any obsevers outside of Montreal (not likely many of them either). It was a surprise run. Vinny Damphousse, Kirk Muller and Carbonneau were solid. Bellows was OK. Denis Savard was on his last legs. John LeClair was used in a checking role - this before he would become one of the world's preeminent power forwards. Players such as Stephane Lebeau, Gilbert Dionne and Paul DiPietro were marginal NHLers. On the defense, the best was probably Eric Desjardins, but he had yet to fufill his potential. J.J. Daigneault was a journeyman. Patrice Brease-by was just a kid.

The '93 Habs had some scoring, some character, a likeable coach (Jacques Demers) and a serviceable defense. However, with the benefit of hindshight, it was the goaltending that made the difference. They could very easily have lost in one of the earlier rounds. The looting and overturning cars on St. Catherine's St. was definitely chanionship-caliber.

Yes, the '93 team's run was very enjoyable to watch. Rick Hodge, the sports guy on CHUM-FM of Toronto, said that those two teams had no business winning Cups. The comment was probably partly due to the difference goaltending made, and partly due to a high profile Maple Leaf fan's jealously. Whatever the case, there was more than a grain of truth to his words.

Getting back to the original premise of the thread. Patrick Roy was what guaranteed the Cup for the Avs in '96. Jocelyn Thibeault or Stephane Fiset would not have been enough to put them over the top. The two Avs teams were so deep talent-wise, they could've won without elite (i.e. Roy, Brodeur, Hasek) goaltending, as evidenced by the Red Wings winning with Chris Osgood.

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