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James Neal goal/point production pace with Malkin

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04-28-2013, 08:13 AM
  #1
ijk
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James Neal goal/point production pace with Malkin

Hey guys,

Me and my friends made a bet before the season started on regular season final standings which also included guessing who would win the Art Ross and also the Rocket Richard trophy.

I selected Malkin to win the Ross and Neal to win the Rocket which got amused responses from some of my friends since I was stupid not to pick Crosby and Stammer to win these trophies.

I was just thinking, what was the difference in Neal's production with Malkin in the lineup vs. without Malkin? Last night he scored a hattie again and he seems to be a different beast altogether playing alongside Malkin. Outside his scoring abilities does he own other important assets in his game?

Sorry to make a "fantasy thread" but I would just like to get some confirmation that I wasn't the only one who saw the potential for Neal to even win the Rocket. Would it have been possible if Malkin and Neal would both have been healthy throughout the season?

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04-28-2013, 09:06 AM
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eXile59
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Neal has a elite shot and is one of the best at picking the top corner. He doesn't have a lot of shake n' bake with the puck but can get open. He needs a center that can get him the puck when he is open. I'm not saying he's incompetent with out a good center. He has good down hill speed and good hands but for him to be Rocket Richard effective he needs that center.

If he would have played the entire season with Geno he could have won the Rocket. He was leading in goals until the injuries started for the both of them.

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04-28-2013, 10:40 AM
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IcedCapp
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Neal is better when he's playing with skill. The biggest thing he needs from that skill is space - just enough to get that amazing shot off. Prior to all of the trades, there were really only two people on the roster capable of providing him with that space: Sidney Crosby and Evgeni Malkin. Unfortunately, Neal's game doesn't exactly mesh with the 2000mph, balls-to-the-wall game of Sidney Crosby. So yes, long story long, Neal produces better with Malkin, although, I think he would have been fine without Malkin after the acquisitions, if he had had more opportunity to play with either Morrow or Kunitz.

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04-28-2013, 10:52 AM
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pistolpete11
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Neal needs not only a center like Malkin, but also someone like Kunitz to do the dirty work. At least when it comes to 5-on-5. If you look at this year, most of his production, and Malkin's for that matter, was on the PP. I don't think the fact that Kunitz was put back with Crosby was a coincidence.

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04-28-2013, 11:04 AM
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Waffle Fries
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Neal had 21 goals in 40 games. But he just flat out needs Malkin.

Before Malkin got hurt, he had 16 goals in 25 games. Malkin is out for a bit, and in that time he had 1 goal in 9 games.

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04-28-2013, 11:52 AM
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Darth Vitale
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Neal's life-force is drained when Malkin is out of the lineup... like a dying car battery.

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04-28-2013, 12:04 PM
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Til the End of Time
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james neal= petr sykora.

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04-28-2013, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Til the End of Time View Post
james neal= petr sykora.
Ugh.

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04-28-2013, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Til the End of Time View Post
james neal= petr sykora.
That's an awful comparison.

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04-28-2013, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Til the End of Time View Post
james neal= petr sykora.
Is he that bad? I get what you're saying but I think he stays more active, can play tough when he has to and is better on the back check. Sykora was really bad and 1D to the extreme.

I like Neal in the F3 position. When he's asked to do to much board work he gets caught out of scoring positions and thats really his bread and butter. Then he kind of reminds me of Feds.

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04-28-2013, 12:20 PM
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Rowdy Roddy Peeper
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Originally Posted by Til the End of Time View Post
james neal= petr sykora.
I don't recall Sykora ever scoring 40 goals or 80 points with Malkin, or pummeling Chara into submission on the forecheck.

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04-28-2013, 12:24 PM
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Master Shake
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Originally Posted by eXile59 View Post
Neal has a elite shot and is one of the best at picking the top corner. He doesn't have a lot of shake n' bake with the puck but can get open. He needs a center that can get him the puck when he is open. I'm not saying he's incompetent with out a good center. He has good down hill speed and good hands but for him to be Rocket Richard effective he needs that center.

If he would have played the entire season with Geno he could have won the Rocket. He was leading in goals until the injuries started for the both of them.
i agree with this. Neal has a great shot but he seems to need a creative center to bring out the sniper in him. But while he struggled some this year without Malkin, it is not fair to say he is entirely reliant on being with great centers. But he is clearly lethal with one.

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04-28-2013, 12:27 PM
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Waffle Fries
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i agree with this. Neal has a great shot but he seems to need a creative center to bring out the sniper in him. But while he struggled some this year without Malkin, it is not fair to say he is entirely reliant on being with great centers. But he is clearly lethal with one.
Actually I think it is.

It's not a knock against him or anything because he is great at what he does and I love what he brings to the team. But since joining this team he hasn't done anything to show me that he could still be successful without a great center.

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04-28-2013, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Til the End of Time View Post
james neal= petr sykora.
Not funny, not outrageous, just plain dumb statement. You could hardly find two more different kind of wingers.

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04-28-2013, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by eXile59 View Post
Neal has a elite shot and is one of the best at picking the top corner. He doesn't have a lot of shake n' bake with the puck but can get open. He needs a center that can get him the puck when he is open. I'm not saying he's incompetent with out a good center. He has good down hill speed and good hands but for him to be Rocket Richard effective he needs that center.

If he would have played the entire season with Geno he could have won the Rocket. He was leading in goals until the injuries started for the both of them.
I agree with this.

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04-28-2013, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Waffle Fries View Post
Actually I think it is.

It's not a knock against him or anything because he is great at what he does and I love what he brings to the team. But since joining this team he hasn't done anything to show me that he could still be successful without a great center.
He is as pure a sniper/shooter as you will find, but, it's not so much he needs a great center, just one that can feed him the puck in the ideal shooting lanes. Not unlike a full-on striker in football.

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04-28-2013, 12:35 PM
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Master Shake
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Originally Posted by Waffle Fries View Post
Actually I think it is.

It's not a knock against him or anything because he is great at what he does and I love what he brings to the team. But since joining this team he hasn't done anything to show me that he could still be successful without a great center.
Honestly its hard to say. It could be just he has trouble adjusting to changes in linemates. Remember when he first came here he was playing out of position and he had trouble adjusting for a bit.

The guy is a pure sniper. Im not sure he is creative enough to be elite winger with average centers but Id bet he would still be able to put up 25-30 goals as long as he was with the same guys. Just when hes paired with an elite guy, it really showcases his skill at shooting the puck.

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04-28-2013, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Til the End of Time View Post
james neal= petr sykora.
Just stop, lol.

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04-28-2013, 12:56 PM
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Til the End of Time
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
I don't recall Sykora ever scoring 40 goals or 80 points with Malkin, or pummeling Chara into submission on the forecheck.
worth noting sykora did score 80 points with an inferior center-man in arnott, and delivered several 30 goals seasons.

neal's physicality and backchecking/forechecking are over-stated. those elements of his game are very sporadic. he has a fantastic shot, but that's the only thing he consistently brings. he consistenly loses battles for the puck that a player of his side should not lose. i honestly cannot recall a goal he's scored from the dirty areas, in-tight, close to the net. his goals are remarkably like sykora's. these beautiful sniper shots may fly in the regular season, but he's going to need to play a lot more gritty than he's shown thus far.

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04-28-2013, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Til the End of Time View Post
worth noting sykora did score 80 points with an inferior center-man in arnott, and delivered several 30 goals seasons.
Also worth noting that Sykora never made a post-season all-star team.

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neal's physicality and backchecking/forechecking are over-stated. those elements of his game are very sporadic. he has a fantastic shot, but that's the only thing he consistently brings. he consistenly loses battles for the puck that a player of his side should not lose. i honestly cannot recall a goal he's scored from the dirty areas, in-tight, close to the net. his goals are remarkably like sykora's. these beautiful sniper shots may fly in the regular season, but he's going to need to play a lot more gritty than he's shown thus far.
When Neal has an assignment to punish a defenseman, he does it, and it doesn't matter if it's a 6'9" man-monster or not. That's something Sykora has never done, even sporadically.

People who want Neal to be a mucker as well as a sniper and sometimes forechecking torpedo have their expectations out of whack, and would probably complain about their diamond shoes being too tight. We've got dirty goal-scorers, what we needed was a clinical finisher. Now we have one, and we should appreciate it.


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04-28-2013, 01:06 PM
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Waffle Fries
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Honestly its hard to say. It could be just he has trouble adjusting to changes in linemates. Remember when he first came here he was playing out of position and he had trouble adjusting for a bit.

The guy is a pure sniper. Im not sure he is creative enough to be elite winger with average centers but Id bet he would still be able to put up 25-30 goals as long as he was with the same guys. Just when hes paired with an elite guy, it really showcases his skill at shooting the puck.
That's true. He might just have trouble adjusting to change. But I just think about his one goal in 20 games and then how he scored in his first game with Malkin.

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04-28-2013, 01:07 PM
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Neal is literally the perfect winger for this team.

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04-28-2013, 01:11 PM
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That's true. He might just have trouble adjusting to change. But I just think about his one goal in 20 games and then how he scored in his first game with Malkin.
But remember his first 20+ games here when he was moved to RW he had TERRIBLE production. I honestly think its just slow to adapt to change. i know some people who lose their minds if you just change a stapler on their desk

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04-28-2013, 01:13 PM
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But remember his first 20+ games here when he was moved to RW he had TERRIBLE production. I honestly think its just slow to adapt to change. i know some people who lose their minds if you just change a stapler on their desk
I prefer the Swingline.

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04-28-2013, 01:16 PM
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Til the End of Time
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Also worth noting that Sykora never made a post-season all-star team.



When Neal has an assignment to punish a defenseman, he does it, and it doesn't matter if it's a 6'9" man-monster or not. That's something Sykora has never done, even sporadically.

People who want Neal to be a mucker as well as a sniper and sometimes forechecking torpedo have their expectations out of whack, and would probably complain about their diamond shoes being too tight. We've got dirty goal-scorers, what we needed was a clinical finisher. Now we have one, and we should appreciate it.
i really would just like neal to provide a somewhat consistent effort and to play with some semblance of discipline. i dont think thats asking too much.

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