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2006 - Pronger to Chicago?

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04-11-2013, 12:18 AM
  #26
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I remember the day it almost happened, I was there.

Report then was for the 3rd overall and talks kind of stopped there.

Pronger 2nd best D-man of his generation and arguable top 10 of all time.. I think just missing out.

Just this after coming off probably the best stretch of hockey in his career.

lol Lowe so bad.. got nothing for him.

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04-11-2013, 01:35 AM
  #27
massivegoonery
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
When you pay Havlat elite money despite no elite production and injury history = Yeah a gamble
At the point, the Hawks were a cap floor team. Money was hardly a concern. That trade was basically the bare minimum required to even look like they were trying to stay competitive.

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04-11-2013, 08:22 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by hockeydoug
The Bulin wall was eating just under max cap hit. That was a swing for the fences too.
for a team that struggled to get to the cap floor every year.
The team was well over the cap. Signing a veteran to a monster contract was a swing at a franchise player. Almost none of the bigger spending teams would have a chance to acquire him on that salary. Khabibulin was a near max cap hit and a huge gamble. They spent over the cap floor by a little more than Khabibulin's salary.

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04-11-2013, 08:29 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by massivegoonery View Post
At the point, the Hawks were a cap floor team. Money was hardly a concern. That trade was basically the bare minimum required to even look like they were trying to stay competitive.
They were not a cap floor team. They were over 38 million in 2007. In 2008 they went close to the floor but most of that had to do with EL contracts and initial extentions. That's also the year they started throwing around ridiculous, unjustified contract extensions to upcoming RFAs. A couple million were moved to make room for the young guys too. I disagree that the Hawks were a cap floor team. They were budgeted, but they weren't operating like STL has for example.

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04-11-2013, 08:32 AM
  #30
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Who cares what they paid Havlat and Khabby. Those were important moves to make this team the slightest bit appealing to future free agents.

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04-11-2013, 08:43 AM
  #31
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Who cares what they paid Havlat and Khabby. Those were important moves to make this team the slightest bit appealing to future free agents.
It's the cap era, what a player gets paid is always important. A huge cap hit is a gamble and an "over-the-top" type move. It goes back to the point about the Hawks never swinging for the fences. They did, like most teams.

Whether or not they were worth it is a different discussion.

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04-11-2013, 08:46 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by hockeydoug View Post
It's the cap era, what a player gets paid is always important. A huge cap hit is a gamble and an "over-the-top" type move. It goes back to the point about the Hawks never swinging for the fences. They did, like most teams.

Whether or not they were worth it is a different discussion.
No way in hell Hossa and Campbell (among others) come here if those signings hadn't been made. The Hawks wouldn't have been near as appealing.

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04-11-2013, 08:51 AM
  #33
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No way in hell Hossa and Campbell (among others) come here if those signings hadn't been made. The Hawks wouldn't have been near as appealing.
I agree. My disagreement was with the idea that the Hawks took a slow, measured approach coming out of the lockout and through the build up to the cup team. They took their big swings most years, that's all I was saying.

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04-11-2013, 08:53 AM
  #34
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Well, when they signed Aucoin and all of those guys, they did have to spend some money put a team together. I don't think it was about winning though, just bringing in some bodies. There wasn't much here and nobody was making much.

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04-11-2013, 11:52 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by hockeydoug View Post
I agree. My disagreement was with the idea that the Hawks took a slow, measured approach coming out of the lockout and through the build up to the cup team. They took their big swings most years, that's all I was saying.
The slow, meausured approach point referred to resisting the temptation to trade draft picks for veterans. Tallon did that and that was a strength of his. PERIOD. Free agent signings and whether or not they were worthwhile is a whole other point. I get it. I get it. I get it. Some don't like Tallon and the job he did. No need to stray to a completely different subject to let us know that.

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04-11-2013, 12:47 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
No way in hell Hossa and Campbell (among others) come here if those signings hadn't been made. The Hawks wouldn't have been near as appealing.
Hossa came because of the lifetime deal + our young core meaning a good chance to compete for cup

Campbell came because of money and contract structure ,, Dale was only GM stupid enough to offer him 8 yrs of same salary. Also Campbell thought at time he would be Hawks #1 dman (Keith/Seabrook were still developing)

Thrashers offered Campbell more $$$ but not similiar structure as Hawks

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04-11-2013, 12:52 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by hockeydoug View Post
The Bulin wall was eating just under max cap hit. That was a swing for the fences too.
Didn't we need to make all those signings after the last lockout to get to cap floor?

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04-11-2013, 12:57 PM
  #38
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Didn't we need to make all those signings after the last lockout to get to cap floor?
Yeah, the Hawks had a weak payroll coming out of the lockout. That's why I never understood Dollar Bill being such an advocate for the cap because it forced him to spend more on the team.

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04-11-2013, 01:13 PM
  #39
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The slow, meausured approach point referred to resisting the temptation to trade draft picks for veterans. Tallon did that and that was a strength of his. PERIOD.Free agent signings and whether or not they were worthwhile is a whole other point.
Any massive expenditure of assets such as picks, cap space, or prospects is a swing for the fences. Right or wrong they were trying to add big pieces, the kind you make to put a team over the top. Pronger was going to cost around the money of Khabibulin and a ton of other assets, so I think it was more a matter of valuing the player rather than a commitment to retaining picks. Besides, not only did Havlat cost significantly against the cap on the extension, a 2nd was thrown in from a team that just finished 14th in the conference.
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No need to stray to a completely different subject to let us know that.
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but that philosophy of being patient in building the team and not swinging for the fences was his greatest strength and a huge factor in the Hawks eventual turnaround.
I haven't made a point about agreeing or disagreeing with the moves. I don't/didn't see the patience and I saw the swings for the fences so I disgree with the opinion. We can agree to disagree.

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04-11-2013, 01:21 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by rick hawk View Post
The slow, meausured approach point referred to resisting the temptation to trade draft picks for veterans. Tallon did that and that was a strength of his. PERIOD. Free agent signings and whether or not they were worthwhile is a whole other point. I get it. I get it. I get it. Some don't like Tallon and the job he did. No need to stray to a completely different subject to let us know that.
He also was a absolute disaster at draft table ,, Hawks probably are probably in playoffs a year earlier if Tallon would have been more active trading his 2nd rounder and 08 1st round pick

And Tallon had no trouble trading Mike Smith's prospects or dumping them outright

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04-11-2013, 01:29 PM
  #41
rick hawk
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
He also was a absolute disaster at draft table ,, Hawks probably are probably in playoffs a year earlier if Tallon would have been more active trading his 2nd rounder and 08 1st round pick

And Tallon had no trouble trading Mike Smith's prospects or dumping them outright
So in other words we use hindsight to determine which draft picks he should have traded and which ones he should have kept.....

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04-11-2013, 01:31 PM
  #42
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He kept the right guys/picks. Bourque and Vrbata are nice players but nothing we couldn't and haven't replaced.

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04-11-2013, 01:34 PM
  #43
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So in other words we use hindsight to determine which draft picks he should have traded and which ones he should have kept.....
You cant praise him for not making any moves with his picks and how great that was but ignore the reality that he wasted valuable assets

And tallon dumped young Anderson/Babchuk/Vorobiev and other Smith talent for no reason ,, Not a guy who had keen eye for young talent

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04-11-2013, 01:42 PM
  #44
rick hawk
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
You cant praise him for not making any moves with his picks and how great that was but ignore the reality that he wasted valuable assets

And tallon dumped young Anderson/Babchuk/Vorobiev and other Smith talent for no reason ,, Not a guy who had keen eye for young talent
You can , indeed,praise someone for one aspect of the way they do their job without bringing in anything else. If I say someone is a great surgeon I don't have to like his bedside manner. By the way, who do you miss out of the three you mention??? Anderson, yes, but he wasn't very good during his time with the Hawks.

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04-11-2013, 01:45 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by rick hawk View Post
You can , indeed,praise someone for one aspect of the way they do their job without bringing in anything else. If I say someone is a great surgeon I don't have to like his bedside manner. By the way, who do you miss out of the three you mention??? Anderson, yes, but he wasn't very good during his time with the Hawks.
Well when it came to Vorobiev he showed solid potential only to have Yawney hate him and Tallon dislike him because he was a Smith Russian

When it comes to Anderson ,, He was never given a real chance by this organizaiton and was dumped for no good reason (Unless you consider the terrible backups Tallon brought in reason to dump a young goalie with promise)

Babchuk was very dangerous PP option on blueline and was not comfortable here in North America at time.. Just wanted to return home for a while and instead of Hawks letting him do that and keep a asset longterm they traded him for absolute junk

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04-11-2013, 01:46 PM
  #46
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Yeah, Anderson would have been hard for anyone to notice. He bounced around enough to confirm that too. I can agree that the guys brought in to replace him sucked though and for that reason alone, maybe it would have been better to just let him play. That said, he would have been gone after the Cup in the cap purge anyway, even if the team hadn't signed Huet because of having him.

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04-11-2013, 01:48 PM
  #47
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In other words Tallon was right in dumping 2 out of the 3....

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04-11-2013, 01:49 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Well when it came to Vorobiev he showed solid potential only to have Yawney hate him and Tallon dislike him because he was a Smith Russian

When it comes to Anderson ,, He was never given a real chance by this organizaiton and was dumped for no good reason (Unless you consider the terrible backups Tallon brought in reason to dump a young goalie with promise)

Babchuk was very dangerous PP option on blueline and was not comfortable here in North America at time.. Just wanted to return home for a while and instead of Hawks letting him do that and keep a asset longterm they traded him for absolute junk
I think you give Danny Richmond too much credit

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04-11-2013, 01:50 PM
  #49
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In other words Tallon was right in dumping 2 out of the 3....
No he was not

There was no reason for Hawks to dump Vorobiev who showed best potential of our young forwards as rookie in 05-06

Anderson was never given fair chance playing behind a D that made Khabibulin look like Bryzgalov

And again why dump Babchuk when they could have allowed him to leave for Russia and hold onto his rights

It was 3 examples of wasteful asset management by Tallon simply because they were Mike Smith prospects who he had low opinion of

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04-11-2013, 01:52 PM
  #50
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Most people did and do share that low opinion!

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