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Old
04-14-2013, 02:24 AM
  #651
The Russian General
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The sight of the word "Halak" makes me cringe and shake my head in utter disbelief. Just move the **** on. Or wait, maybe we should ask good ole Patty Roy if he could come back from retirement and save us

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04-14-2013, 02:34 AM
  #652
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That calmness that everyone always raves about when talking about Price is usually just nonchalance.

You can tell what type of game you're going to get from Price after ONE shot on net. I can tell you by the way he moves.

When he's into the game, he's unbeatable. When he's just sliding around in the butterfly like a lazy ass, you're in for a long night. When he's sliding and popping up and challenging shots, you're going to get a shutout.

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04-14-2013, 02:37 AM
  #653
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Originally Posted by Capitaine Gionta View Post
The sight of the word "Halak" makes me cringe and shake my head in utter disbelief. Just move the **** on. Or wait, maybe we should ask good ole Patty Roy if he could come back from retirement and save us
I don't get what people have againts Halak that we can't talk about him any more, like if hes a garbage goalie.

We did get Ryder back din't we? And Bouillon...

WHy are some people so irrational when it comes to goalies?!?

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04-14-2013, 02:39 AM
  #654
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K well who has more pressure? Enlighten me, the only athletes close to carey are qb's who pay for big franchises
Are you serious??

Kobe Bryant
LeBron James
Kevin Durant
Chris Paul
Lionel Messi
Cristiano Ronaldo
Gareth Bale
Carmelo Anthony
Robin Van Persie
Xavi
Iniesta
Wayne Rooney
Andrea Pirlo
Zlatan Ibrahimovic
Fernando Torres
Luis Suarez
Joe Flaco
Rogers (GreenBay QB)
Sidney Crosby
Alexander Ovechkin
Henrik Lundqvist

and many many many others .. Price is not even close to leading in pressure.

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04-14-2013, 02:45 AM
  #655
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Originally Posted by Carey Cost View Post
I don't get what people have againts Halak that we can't talk about him any more, like if hes a garbage goalie.

We did get Ryder back din't we? And Bouillon...

WHy are some people so irrational when it comes to goalies?!?
You should ask yourself because you're being irrational haha Ryder was performing, Bouillon was performing, Halak hasn't done a thing this year. St. Louis had had enough of his constant injuries. He won't offer us anything.

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04-14-2013, 02:47 AM
  #656
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Originally Posted by Traitor8 View Post
Are you serious??

Kobe Bryant
LeBron James
Kevin Durant
Chris Paul
Lionel Messi
Cristiano Ronaldo
Gareth Bale
Carmelo Anthony
Xavi
Iniesta
Wayne Rooney
Andrea Pirlo
Zlatan Ibrahimovic
Fernando Torres
Luis Suarez
Joe Flaco
Rogers (GreenBay QB)
Sidney Crosby
Alexander Ovechkin
Henrik Lundqvist

and many many many others .. Price is not even close to leading in pressure.
Well, you also have to take the position they play into account. There's much more in-game pressure being a QB or a G than being a midfielder in soccer or a winger in both soccer and hockey. Then, there's the fan base plus the media. I'd argue, on that list, that Price has more pressure than guys like Xavi, Iniesta, Pirlo, Torres and some others. Especially since some of those play with players who have way more exposure than them (Messi for one).

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04-14-2013, 02:49 AM
  #657
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Originally Posted by Carey Cost View Post
I don't get what people have againts Halak that we can't talk about him any more, like if hes a garbage goalie.

We did get Ryder back din't we? And Bouillon...

WHy are some people so irrational when it comes to goalies?!?
Honestly, I'd play Budaj over Halak.

There's no point in discussing Halak in ref. to Price currently. We chose the right guy or at the very least the equal guy + Eller (I strongly believe Price>>Halak today, but hey, there's no control to prove it, just my opinion).

The thing about tonight is that it's the first game I've been able to say that the loss is entirely on Price. Most of the team didn't play very well either, not being able to test reimer is just pathetic. But this game was lost cuz Carey was possibly the worst I've ever seen him. That said, I do understand the position and sometimes, you come out and you just make 3 mistakes (I'm even counting the first one against him cuz I think he should have had it to the point where it's just like "wtf is going on?" to yourself. It wasn't him being lazy, it was him just missing routine saves. I know that the equipment thing shouldn't be an issue, but factually, it just might be. Not an excuse overall, but a reason why (if this is ANOTHER new pair).

I only count 2 bad games by Price and he rebounded well from them. People have acted like he's just been soft the entire season and tonight is like dumping a truckload of gasoline on that fire.

I have faith in Carey, although I'm pissed he didn't show up tonight. Still, I know that it happens and if he just goes the distance and takes it into 2011-2012 mode (as well as some games this year), I'll be more than happy. You have to think that performances like this have an effect on him in a positive way (rather than negative earlier on in his career). He knows he laid an egg and that he's got to redeem himself - long term, not just a string of games. I think the week or two before the playoffs is when a goalie gets into a very important psychological mindset. Glass half full says that this was something positive to happen to get him concentrated and into "the zone".

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04-14-2013, 02:51 AM
  #658
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Originally Posted by Traitor8 View Post
Are you serious??

Kobe Bryant
LeBron James
Kevin Durant
Chris Paul
Lionel Messi
Cristiano Ronaldo
Gareth Bale
Xavi
Iniesta
Wayne Rooney
Andrea Pirlo
Zlatan Ibrahimovic
Fernando Torres
Luis Suarez
Joe Flaco
Rogers (GreenBay QB)

and many many many others .. Price is not even close to leading in pressure.
Luongo, the bum that went into the SC finals that every one wants to trade in vancouver.
Scott "7.5 million$ per" Gomez
Mike Komisarek
Alexander Ovechkin
Rick "set for life" Dipietro
Hose "vezina, Hart" Theodore

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04-14-2013, 02:51 AM
  #659
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Well, you also have to take the position they play into account. There's much more in-game pressure being a QB or a G than being a midfielder in soccer or a winger in both soccer and hockey. Then, there's the fan base plus the media. I'd argue, on that list, that Price has more pressure than guys like Xavi, Iniesta, Pirlo, Torres and some others. Especially since some of those play with players who have way more exposure than them (Messi for one).
My point has been made. He sounds like a guy who doesn't watch a sport outside of hockey. Pirlo IS the QB of Milan, Juventus and the Italian National Team. If you think Habs have pressure ...imagine the pressure of a nation like italy on your back.

You think Montreal is crazy about hockey? Imagine Liverpool and their soccer team. If Suarez doesn't score, its' game over!

Rooney has the pressure of United on him + of England as a whole.

Iniesta and Xavi, I was thinking more about Spain than anything else.

To say Price leads in pressure is RIDICULOUS!

Real Madrid, Manchester United, Juventus, Milan, Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea, Barcelona, Bayern players are scrutinized much more. Don't forget that it's also an international sport, more media (yes more than habs journalist) and they also get exposed to Champions League pressure

Then you got the Lakers market, the Yankees, the Red Sox, the Knickerbockers .... FUGGETABOUTIT!

Then you got players who are unknown but have pressure that you don't even imagine. For example, Younis Mahmoud, the captain of the Iraqi National Team. The best player must deal with so much crap but still attempt to lead a nation's soccer team. Didier Drogba in Ivory Coast, etc...

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04-14-2013, 02:54 AM
  #660
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Originally Posted by Traitor8 View Post
Are you serious??

Kobe Bryant
LeBron James
Kevin Durant
Chris Paul
Lionel Messi
Cristiano Ronaldo
Xavi
Iniesta
Wayne Rooney
Andrea Pirlo
Zlatan Ibrahimovic
Fernando Torres
Luis Suarez
Joe Flaco
Rogers (GreenBay QB)

and many many many others .. Price is not even close to leading in pressure.
Lebron James and kobe are the only players on that list that I agree with.

iniesta, Xavi and messi feed off themselves, no one gets angry at them for having a bad game because if one of them has a bad game because chances are another player will step up. If they do manage to all have a bad game then the floodgates open but that rarely happens. that's what makes Barcelona Madrid MU and bayern so good they aren't dependant on one player.don't get me wrong they have a ton of pressure to win the CL as individuals, but carey price gets blamed for every goal he lets in, even for a regular season game. Price is alone in net, at the end of the day he either makes the game winning save and is a hero or he gets scored and he's the worst player to wear the ch

I actually lol'd at Torres and Suarez.

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04-14-2013, 03:08 AM
  #661
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Originally Posted by Aceekay View Post
Lebron James and kobe are the only players on that list that I agree with.

iniesta, Xavi and messi feed off themselves, no one gets angry at them for having a bad game because if one of them has a bad game because chances are another player will step up. If they do manage to all have a bad game then the floodgates open but that rarely happens. that's what makes Barcelona Madrid MU and bayern so good they aren't dependant on one player.don't get me wrong they have a ton of pressure to win the CL as individuals, but carey price gets blamed for every goal he lets in, even for a regular season game. Price is alone in net, at the end of the day he either makes the game winning save and is a hero or he gets scored and he's the worst player to wear the ch

I actually lol'd at Torres and Suarez.
You are not serious man....

Messi, the guy has won an infinite number of personal and team trophies year after year.. he has won the champions league with Barca 3 times !!

This year when Barca lost 2-0 againts Milan in the first leg every one was trashing him for not showing up... and that was probably his only bad game ...in his career.

The proof that Price has almost no pressure in mtl is that its been 6 years he has won nothing and theres still people who blindly defend him

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04-14-2013, 03:12 AM
  #662
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Lebron James and kobe are the only players on that list that I agree with.

iniesta, Xavi and messi feed off themselves, no one gets angry at them for having a bad game because if one of them has a bad game because chances are another player will step up. If they do manage to all have a bad game then the floodgates open but that rarely happens. that's what makes Barcelona Madrid MU and bayern so good they aren't dependant on one player.don't get me wrong they have a ton of pressure to win the CL as individuals, but carey price gets blamed for every goal he lets in, even for a regular season game. Price is alone in net, at the end of the day he either makes the game winning save and is a hero or he gets scored and he's the worst player to wear the ch

I actually lol'd at Torres and Suarez.
Keep loling because Liverpool's soccer market is bigger than Montreal's hockey market. Suarez is the lone star there.

It's funny you only talk about Messi with Barca and not the pressure Messi faces in Argentina. People were saying how Messi is a "bust" because he doesn't perform at the WC level and how he's not that good, he's only good because of Xavi and Iniesta.

It's also funny you had nothing to say about Ronaldo and Bale ...probarbly because you don't know them.

It's also hilarious if you think Carmelo doesn't have more pressure than Price by being the lone star in basket crazy market like NY.

Torres ...look at the way he has been treated for the past few years because of his huge transfer price + salary. Yes Torres HAS pressure!

There's also no "season" in soccer .... you lose a couple of games and you could of already lost the title. There's no "well it's just a regular season game, we can make it up in the playoffs".

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04-14-2013, 03:14 AM
  #663
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My point has been made. He sounds like a guy who doesn't watch a sport outside of hockey. Pirlo IS the QB of Milan, Juventus and the Italian National Team. If you think Habs have pressure ...imagine the pressure of a nation like italy on your back.

You think Montreal is crazy about hockey? Imagine Liverpool and their soccer team. If Suarez doesn't score, its' game over!

Rooney has the pressure of United on him + of England as a whole.

Iniesta and Xavi, I was thinking more about Spain than anything else.

To say Price leads in pressure is RIDICULOUS!

Real Madrid, Manchester United, Juventus, Milan, Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea, Barcelona, Bayern players are scrutinized much more. Don't forget that it's also an international sport, more media (yes more than habs journalist) and they also get exposed to Champions League pressure

Then you got the Lakers market, the Yankees, the Red Sox, the Knickerbockers .... FUGGETABOUTIT!

Then you got players who are unknown but have pressure that you don't even imagine. For example, Younis Mahmoud, the captain of the Iraqi National Team. The best player must deal with so much crap but still attempt to lead a nation's soccer team. Didier Drogba in Ivory Coast, etc...
Well for your information I do watch a lot of sports and I can tell you is that you're misinterpreting the pressure fan bases put on teams rather than pressure on individuals and their positions.

montreal has a huge fan base but it's not close to international fame teams like Barcelona has. I'm on my iPad so I'm gonna make this short in the eyes of fans our team wins or loses on the back of price unless our defense plays terrible, but your examples, big name soccer franchises like Barcelona don't just say messi will win or lose our games. They say we win or lose our games whether or not xavi can control the midfield, whether or not pique can shut down they're strikers, whether or not Valdes can make an important stop whether or not villa, Pedro, iniesta and messi can score a big goal. There are a lot more gears in a soccer team that require to work than a hockey team.

Of course a lot of that can be said about hockey teams as well but I think goaltending is one of the most important position in sports and playing in montreal we put so much on our goalies by far more than anyone else on the team.

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04-14-2013, 03:20 AM
  #664
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Originally Posted by Carey Cost View Post
You are not serious man....

Messi, the guy has won an infinite number of personal and team trophies year after year.. he has won the champions league with Barca 3 times !!

This year when Barca lost 2-0 againts Milan in the first leg every one was trashing him for not showing up... and that was probably his only bad game ...in his career.

The proof that Price has almost no pressure in mtl is that its been 6 years he has won nothing and theres still people who blindly defend him
K, enough with this stupid trope. Were we supposed to have won the Stanley Cup by now? Was he supposed to collect a certain number of Vezinas? His stats have been shown to be better than some HHOFmers year to year in comparison so he has proven a lot.

As for the logic that people defend him thus there is no pressure is erroneous.

Every single save that he doesn't make is scrutinized. No other goalie gets that treatment. Not Rask, not reimer, not lundqvist, not rinne, not quick, not whoever. Just Price. Every goal that goes in almost has its own thread. We live and die by him. Theo and Halak (who both had great playoff performances sans Cup) were also subject to this pressure. Price maybe more so because he has set the bar so high for himself, which may run counter to your evaluation of the bolded part. Outside this board, Price and "Habs success" are synonymous. There's a reason for that. It's psychological how when it's your own guy, you easily forget things.

Pointless comparing to Messi or Lebron or whoever. In the NHL, Carey Price lives under the biggest magnifying glass. If Crosby has a bad shift, he can make up for it. If Carey lets a goal in, he can't really make up for it with great saves unless the team scores. I remember a lot of blame after the 1-0 loss to the Pens off 87's perfect shot and Price being amazing the rest of the game.

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04-14-2013, 03:20 AM
  #665
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Keep loling because Liverpool's soccer market is bigger than Montreal's hockey market. Suarez is the lone star there.

It's funny you only talk about Messi with Barca and not the pressure Messi faces in Argentina. People were saying how Messi is a "bust" because he doesn't perform at the WC level and how he's not that good, he's only good because of Xavi and Iniesta.

It's also funny you had nothing to say about Ronaldo and Bale ...probarbly because you don't know them.

It's also hilarious if you think Carmelo doesn't have more pressure than Price by being the lone star in basket crazy market like NY.

Torres ...look at the way he has been treated for the past few years because of his huge transfer price + salary. Yes Torres HAS pressure!

There's also no "season" in soccer .... you lose a couple of games and you could of already lost the title. There's no "well it's just a regular season game, we can make it up in the playoffs".
I'm a chelsea fan you're way off, Torres isn't even the player with most pressure on his team, mata,hazard, terry, cech all have more pressure than Torres. Torres is just a better version of Gomez overpaid for him and everyone hates him, chelsea fans want to like him but he's been very inconsistent and underwhelming since coming over.

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04-14-2013, 03:20 AM
  #666
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Well for your information I do watch a lot of sports and I can tell you is that you're misinterpreting the pressure fan bases put on teams rather than pressure on individuals and their positions.

montreal has a huge fan base but it's not close to international fame teams like Barcelona has. I'm on my iPad so I'm gonna make this short in the eyes of fans our team wins or loses on the back of price unless our defense plays terrible, but your examples, big name soccer franchises like Barcelona don't just say messi will win or lose our games. They say we win or lose our games whether or not xavi can control the midfield, whether or not pique can shut down they're strikers, whether or not Valdes can make an important stop whether or not villa, Pedro, iniesta and messi can score a big goal. There are a lot more gears in a soccer team that require to work than a hockey team.

Of course a lot of that can be said about hockey teams as well but I think goaltending is one of the most important position in sports and playing in montreal we put so much on our goalies by far more than anyone else on the team.
It's about your opponent not necessarily the market.

Price plainly sucks against the Leafs as indicated by his career record. He's generally above average against most other teams though.

I'd rather face NY than Tdot for sure.

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04-14-2013, 03:23 AM
  #667
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K, enough with this stupid trope. Were we supposed to have won the Stanley Cup by now? Was he supposed to collect a certain number of Vezinas? His stats have been shown to be better than some HHOFmers year to year in comparison so he has proven a lot.

As for the logic that people defend him thus there is no pressure is erroneous.

Every single save that he doesn't make is scrutinized. No other goalie gets that treatment. Not Rask, not reimer, not lundqvist, not rinne, not quick, not whoever. Just Price. Every goal that goes in almost has its own thread. We live and die by him. Theo and Halak (who both had great playoff performances sans Cup) were also subject to this pressure. Price maybe more so because he has set the bar so high for himself, which may run counter to your evaluation of the bolded part. Outside this board, Price and "Habs success" are synonymous. There's a reason for that. It's psychological how when it's your own guy, you easily forget things.

Pointless comparing to Messi or Lebron or whoever. In the NHL, Carey Price lives under the biggest magnifying glass. If Crosby has a bad shift, he can make up for it. If Carey lets a goal in, he can't really make up for it with great saves unless the team scores. I remember a lot of blame after the 1-0 loss to the Pens off 87's perfect shot and Price being amazing the rest of the game.
This is the point I'm trying to convey, price doesn't have the expectations to win the cup every year like messi does with CL but if we lose he's the first person we blame, you can't say the same for messi.

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04-14-2013, 03:35 AM
  #668
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This is the point I'm trying to convey, price doesn't have the expectations to win the cup every year like messi does with CL but if we lose he's the first person we blame, you can't say the same for messi.
to say nothing of the support Messi gets compared to Price on most nights when we lose. (Tonight was allllll Carey, not gonna sugar coat that one. Pitt, he was pretty bad, but so was the D in that firewagon game).

Of course, there are hundreds of players under lots of pressure from their fans, but the nature of the position (as we both are pointing out), changes the dynamic drastically. You can't make up for mistakes that aren't even your fault.

That said, Carey DOES have the opportunity to bounce back from this, cuz this is squarely his fault. Historically he does very well at this, but who remembers stuff like that. Anyway, we'll see how this unfolds - he needs to win us the division and at least the first round (either by being solid with a good team or godly with the Emelin-less D we have that I'm not super happy about).

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04-14-2013, 03:36 AM
  #669
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You are not serious man....

Messi, the guy has won an infinite number of personal and team trophies year after year.. he has won the champions league with Barca 3 times !!

This year when Barca lost 2-0 againts Milan in the first leg every one was trashing him for not showing up... and that was probably his only bad game ...in his career.

The proof that Price has almost no pressure in mtl is that its been 6 years he has won nothing and theres still people who blindly defend him
You're out to lunch no one said **** about messi, everyone said Barcelona's defense played poorly and their attackers weren't able to convert.

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04-14-2013, 04:19 AM
  #670
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Keep loling because Liverpool's soccer market is bigger than Montreal's hockey market. Suarez is the lone star there.

It's funny you only talk about Messi with Barca and not the pressure Messi faces in Argentina. People were saying how Messi is a "bust" because he doesn't perform at the WC level and how he's not that good, he's only good because of Xavi and Iniesta.

It's also funny you had nothing to say about Ronaldo and Bale ...probarbly because you don't know them.

It's also hilarious if you think Carmelo doesn't have more pressure than Price by being the lone star in basket crazy market like NY.

Torres ...look at the way he has been treated for the past few years because of his huge transfer price + salary. Yes Torres HAS pressure!

There's also no "season" in soccer .... you lose a couple of games and you could of already lost the title. There's no "well it's just a regular season game, we can make it up in the playoffs".
the actual funny part is you, who can't find more than 3 hockey players who are under more pressure than him...

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04-14-2013, 04:51 AM
  #671
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Honestly? Get Halak back... I know the stats are not there this year but he got injured 2 times...

Sry mods I don't want to brg THAT subject back... but really Halak is expandable in St-Louis and has proven that he can do great things when its time plus last year and the year before and the year before that he was stats wise better than Price.

I know I will admit it I'm still ******** over that trade but stats wise Halak wouldn't be a bad choice plus we could get him for cheap.
see, this is what you don't understand: halak isn't a starter. as much as you want it to be true, he just isn't. he can't play the 70-75 odd games a real starter needs to. he is injured too often and he is VERY inconsistent where he'll go from godly to poop-worthy and he needs to be shot at often to excel. you are so blinded by his one great playoff run that you can't see the forest for the trees

"i know he was injured but [..]" that's the whole point! he's always injured and you can't have your #1 starter spending half his time in the hospital

all you do is got to nhl.com, go to the stat page, sort by save% and go "see, price isn't that good, we could go and get elliot/halak/schneider/niemi/budnyk/howard for cheap and they'd be better!"

speaking of howard, go check how much he got paid. this is how much a starter like howard is worth to the red wings. decent goaltending is worth gold in this league, we are sitting on one of the best young goaltender in the league and because of a few bad games, let's give him away?

would you feel confident starting budaj next season? for the whole season? if you answer no, congratulations, you've just defeated your own argument.

if you're a GM and you put all your eggs into a guy like halak, you need to be fired

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04-14-2013, 04:55 AM
  #672
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I'm looking at Halak's stats right now and he has 1, 5, 7, 6, 3 shutouts in the past 5 years.. hows that bad?

any way i dont want to continue with the Halak convo cuz that gets you infractions..lol
i pick and chose stats cuz that makes me smart lol

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04-14-2013, 05:15 AM
  #673
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Shutouts are a useless statistic.

At fixed save percentage, you might actually want fewer shutouts, as that would imply more consistency.

But mostly, shutouts measure statistical fluctuations.

1 goal games would actually be a more useful stat, as there are more of them.

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04-14-2013, 05:23 AM
  #674
DAChampion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Cost View Post
I don't get what people have againts Halak that we can't talk about him any more, like if hes a garbage goalie.

We did get Ryder back din't we? And Bouillon...

WHy are some people so irrational when it comes to goalies?!?
It is simple.

Halak was sold after an unreal playoffs when the Habs got lucky by bouncing two superior adversaries: Washington and Pittsburgh.

We sold him when his value was high, and we got the excellent lars eller for it.

Now, we move forward.

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04-14-2013, 07:31 AM
  #675
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
It is simple.

Halak was sold after an unreal playoffs when the Habs got lucky by bouncing two superior adversaries: Washington and Pittsburgh.

We sold him when his value was high, and we got the excellent lars eller for it.

Now, we move forward.
We sold when Halak was high but we didn't get the return we should have. We got a mid 1st rounder with 2nd line potential for a hot goalie who was #1 starter material.

Look at what Colorado paid. We got hosed on that deal. Halak should have gotten us more.

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