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Greatest Scorers of All Time

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Old
04-21-2005, 10:49 AM
  #1
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Greatest Scorers of All Time

I have put together a system that allows us to evaluate the greatest scorers in NHL history. It levels the playing field so that players do not have an advantage because of era, length of schedule or an excess of bad teams in the league.

This system measures the greatest scorers of all time. I intentionally left out the mediocre players because, honestly, most people don't care about them.

The way it works is this: If you win a scoring title, you get 7 points. 2nd in scoring gets you 6, 3rd is 5 pts, 4 th is 4, 5th is 3, 6th is 2 and 7th in scoring is 1 pt.

What this does is equates a scoring title from any era. Cy Denneny leading the league in 1923-34 with 23 points is the same as Mario Lemieux leading the league in 1991-92 with 131 points. Era, schedule and all the other details are eliminated as factors that would skew the numbers.

The only other factor that must be considered is dominance. What I mean is this: While winning many of his scoring titles, Wayne Gretzky obliterated the competition. He did not win by a point or two, in some cases, he won by as much as 79 points! This is very different from Denneny's 23-24 title or Lemieux's 91-92 title. This kind of dominance must be accounted for.

So, I implemented bonus points. If a player wins a scoring title by 25% or more (making it a raw point number would unfairly skew it in favor of modern day players) he gets 2 points in addition to the 7 for winning the scoring title. If a player wins a scoring title by 50% or more, he gets 4 points in addition to the 7 for winning the title. This helps to account for the amazing dominance that some players (Gretzky, Howe, Esposito, Morenz, Cowley) had on the scoring race during their careers.

So, let me know what you think. Here are the top 50 of all time:

Rank Name PTS
1 Wayne Gretzky 122
2 Gordie Howe 102
3 Mario Lemieux 57
4 Phil Esposito 56
5 Stan Mikita 52
6 Maurice "Rocket "Richard 50
7 Bobby Hull 49
8 Jaromir Jagr 46
Cy Denneny 46
10 Jean Believeau 45
11 Andy Bathgate 40
12 Howie Morenz 38
13 Bobby Orr 37
14 Marcel Dionne 36
15 Guy Lafleur 35
Ted Lindsay 35
17 Cecil " Babe" Dye 31
18 Bill Cowley 30
19 Mike Bossy 28
20 Joe Sakic 27
Doug Bentley 27
22 Charlie Conacher 26
23 Bill Cook 25
24 Bernie Geoffrion 24
Edouard "Newsy" Lalonde 24
26 Frank Boucher 23
27 Elmer Lach 22
Joe Malone 22
Max Bentley 22
30 Nels Stewart 21
David "Sweeney" Schriner 21
32 Peter Stastny 21
33 Harvey "Busher" Jackson 20
Peter Forsberg 20
35 Aurel Joliat 19
Hector "Toe" Blake 19
Marty Barry 19
38 Bryan Trottier 18
Sid Abel 18
Syl Apps, Sr. 18
Teemu Selanne 18
Norm Ullman 18
43 Jari Kurri 17
Paul Coffey 17
Bobby Clarke 17
46 Bryan Hextall, Sr. 16
Markus Naslund 16
Gord Drillon 16
Jean Ratelle 16
50 Paul Kariya 15
Pavel Bure 15
Steve Yzerman 15
Adam Oates 15


Last edited by Ogopogo*: 04-22-2005 at 12:03 PM.
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Old
04-21-2005, 11:19 AM
  #2
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Good work. I've done the same thing before with the top 10 scorers instead of the top 7 but the lists look pretty similar.

The problem with this method (I don't know how big an issue it is) is that it favors players from the early years of hockey. For example it's easier to come in 7th place in a 6-team league with 150 players, compared to a 30-team league with 600 players. Again, I don't know how big an issue this is especially since players from all eras are represented.

It's amazing to see Orr come in 13th place, especially considering how short his career was. Very nice to see Mikita come in 5th, too.

Are you going to do the same thing for most dominant goal-scorers and playmakers?

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04-21-2005, 11:26 AM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey Outsider
Good work. I've done the same thing before with the top 10 scorers instead of the top 7 but the lists look pretty similar.

The problem with this method (I don't know how big an issue it is) is that it favors players from the early years of hockey. For example it's easier to come in 7th place in a 6-team league with 150 players, compared to a 30-team league with 600 players. Again, I don't know how big an issue this is especially since players from all eras are represented.

It's amazing to see Orr come in 13th place, especially considering how short his career was. Very nice to see Mikita come in 5th, too.

Are you going to do the same thing for most dominant goal-scorers and playmakers?
Yes, the goal scorers will be posted in a few minutes. Playmakers, I am still working on, it could be a week or so.

Orr and Coffey are the only dmen on the list. It is amazing where Orr finished, I completely agree.

I don't think it favors players from a smaller NHL. Being the best in the world in a 6 team league and being the best in the world in a 30 team league is the same thing, IMO. There are just a lot more mediocre players in the league now that used to be out of the league. The 3rd best scorer in 1955 and the 3rd best scorer in 2005 are still the 3rd best scorers in the world, no matter how many teams are in the NHL.

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04-21-2005, 12:15 PM
  #4
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The greatest scoring seasons of all time:

1986-87 Wayne Gretzky 183 points, Jari Kurri 108 points. Gretzky wins by 69%
1983-84 Wayne Gretzky 205 points, Paul Coffey 126 points. Gretzky wins by 63%
1982-83 Wayne Gretzky 196 points, Peter Stastny 124 points. Gretzky wins by 58%
1984-85 Wayne Gretzky 208 points, Jari Kurri 135 points. Gretzky wins by 54%
1985-86 Wayne Gretzky 215 points, Mario Lemieux 141 points. Gretzky wins by 52%
1981-82 Wayne Gretzky 212 points, Mike Bossy 147 points. Gretzky wins by 44%
1940-41 Bill Cowley 62 points, 5 players 44 points. Cowley wins by 41%
1952-53 Gordie Howe 95 points, Ted Lindsay 71 points. Howe wins by 34%
1927-28 Howie Morenz 51 points, Aurel Joliat 39 points. Morenz wins by 31%
1950-51 Gordie Howe 86 points, Maurice Richard 66 points. Howe wins by 30%
1972-73 Phil Esposito 130 points, Bobby Clarke 104 points. Esposito wins by 25%


No player other than Wayne Gretzky has ever won a scoring title by 50%. That is why Gretzky was so amazing, he dominated the NHL like nobody else ever has.


Last edited by Ogopogo*: 04-22-2005 at 11:41 AM.
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04-22-2005, 11:16 AM
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To be honest, I am surprised that Lemieux ended up in 3rd. I guess I didn't realize what a great player he really was.

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04-22-2005, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogopogo
To be honest, I am surprised that Lemieux ended up in 3rd. I guess I didn't realize what a great player he really was.
No offense but judging on many of your posts I dont even know if you watched Lemieux in is prime you seem to really think Lemieux was just a great player when in fact he was the most talented player ever. People may disagree but thats what I really think. Put Gretzky and Lemieux in a skills competition and Lemieux blows Gretzky away!

By the way I'm loving your lists keep it up!

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04-22-2005, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KOVALEV10
No offense but judging on many of your posts I dont even know if you watched Lemieux in is prime you seem to really think Lemieux was just a great player when in fact he was the most talented player ever. People may disagree but thats what I really think. Put Gretzky and Lemieux in a skills competition and Lemieux blows Gretzky away!

By the way I'm loving your lists keep it up!
Although, I disagree that Lemieux would beat Gretzky in a skills competition, it is a valid argument.

Thank you for your support of the lists. It is nice to be in a community of knowledgeable hockey fans that like to discuss the history of the league.

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04-22-2005, 11:32 AM
  #8
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Keep up the good work. Very nice list.

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04-22-2005, 12:01 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogopogo
Although, I disagree that Lemieux would beat Gretzky in a skills competition, it is a valid argument.

Thank you for your support of the lists. It is nice to be in a community of knowledgeable hockey fans that like to discuss the history of the league.
I like the list. It's well done. I like the dominance factor. It's important

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Old
04-22-2005, 12:13 PM
  #10
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Nobody could make such unpredictable, amazingly accurate plays as Gretzky could.

It was like watching Hasek during his gumby years.

One could only drop one's jaw.

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