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Mcdonagh vs Subban

View Poll Results: Who is better overall?
PK Subban 154 64.17%
Ryan Mcdonagh 86 35.83%
Voters: 240. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
03-09-2013, 10:37 PM
  #1
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Mcdonagh vs Subban

Yep...this thread again. Who do you think is better overall?

Offense: Subban
Defense: Mcdonagh but its close
Two-way: Subban but its close

So I'll say its really close but slight edge to Subban because of his offensive game but it could really go either way...i'm expecting this to be close but who knows.

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03-09-2013, 10:42 PM
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PeterForsberg
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You sorta solved it yourself. PK is better.

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03-09-2013, 10:53 PM
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19NYSports91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ottawa View Post
Yep...this thread again. Who do you think is better overall?

Offense: Subban
Defense: Mcdonagh but its close
Two-way: Subban but its close

So I'll say its really close but slight edge to Subban because of his offensive game but it could really go either way...i'm expecting this to be close but who knows.
Not really close. McDonagh is definitely better than Subban defensively.

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03-09-2013, 10:55 PM
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They're so close that any good stretch of game will put one ahead of the other. Subban has almost twice as many pts in less games. We all know McDonagh is much better offensively than what he's shown so far this season though.

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Originally Posted by 19NYSports91 View Post
Not really close. McDonagh is definitely better than Subban defensively.
Still waiting for facts to back up this statement...

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03-09-2013, 10:57 PM
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MacDunna.

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03-09-2013, 10:57 PM
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TheRightWay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ottawa View Post
Yep...this thread again. Who do you think is better overall?

Offense: Subban
Defense: Mcdonagh but its close
Two-way: Subban but its close

So I'll say its really close but slight edge to Subban because of his offensive game but it could really go either way...i'm expecting this to be close but who knows.
No. McDonagh is considerably better defensively.

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03-09-2013, 10:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 19NYSports91 View Post
Not really close. McDonagh is definitely better than Subban defensively.
Imo I agree that Mcdonagh is definitely better than Subban defensively but Subban is also extremely underrated defensively and people make the gap between Subban and Mcdonaghs defensive play larger than it should be. I personally still think its close but to each his own

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03-09-2013, 10:59 PM
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Originally Posted by ottawa View Post
Imo Mcdonagh is better than Subban defensively but Subban is also extremely underrated defensively. I personally still think its close but to each his own
And the same could be said about McDonagh offensively. Stat obsessors are going to disagree but intelligent hockey fans will know that there is MUCH more to measuring the offense of a defenseman than points.

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03-09-2013, 11:01 PM
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Originally Posted by TheRightWay View Post
And the same could be said about McDonagh offensively. Stat obsessors are going to disagree but intelligent hockey fans will know that there is MUCH more to measuring the offense of a defenseman than points.
I agree with you to a small extent...but you should expand on that last bit rather than just opening up a new topic and leaving it unexplained and you should also say how Mcdonagh and Subban differ in those regards. English 101

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03-09-2013, 11:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRightWay View Post
And the same could be said about McDonagh offensively. Stat obsessors are going to disagree but intelligent hockey fans will know that there is MUCH more to measuring the offense of a defenseman than points.
Really? If you ain't producing you ain't good offensively. That's all there is to it really. McDonagh is definitely better than his 8pts suggests as shown by last season. But if you don't have the numbers to back you up, it's hard to argue you're good offensively. Sure, there are situations such as being used more defensively or in a shutdown role but still.

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03-09-2013, 11:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Montreal Shadow View Post
They're so close that any good stretch of game will put one ahead of the other. Subban has almost twice as many pts in less games. We all know McDonagh is much better offensively than what he's shown so far this season though.

Still waiting for facts to back up this statement...
I'm just going by what I have seen from both players. Not a Rangers fan btw, an Isles fan.

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03-09-2013, 11:03 PM
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I'm just going by what I have seen from both players. Not a Rangers fan btw, an Isles fan.
So nothing? Carry on then.

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03-09-2013, 11:12 PM
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So nothing? Carry on then.
McDonagh plays against the other teams top lines and has to cover Girardi's ***. His defense is elite imo because of his positioning, skating, stick checking, high hockey IQ, and he's good along the boards to take the puck from forwards. McDonagh imo is better than Subban in all of those areas. I see Subban turn the puck over a good amount of times and he seems to take risks.


Last edited by 19NYSports91: 03-09-2013 at 11:22 PM.
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03-09-2013, 11:22 PM
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Originally Posted by 19NYSports91 View Post
McDonagh plays against the other teams top lines and has to cover Girardi's ***. His defense is elite imo because of his positioning, skating, stick checking, good along the boards to take the puck from forwards. I see Subban turn the puck over a good amount of times and he seems to take risks.
You need to to watch subban more because I've watched every single habs game this season and he does every thing you listed for mcdonagh and is extremely good offensively. While he does make mistakes they've been very limited and have never directly lead to a goal, he's been a lot smarter and better defensively than people give him credit for.

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03-09-2013, 11:54 PM
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Subban, he's dominant at everything.

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03-10-2013, 12:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ottawa View Post
I agree with you to a small extent...but you should expand on that last bit rather than just opening up a new topic and leaving it unexplained and you should also say how Mcdonagh and Subban differ in those regards. English 101
He's phenomenal on the transition, and specifically gaining the zone with the puck. He rarely turns the puck over at the point and makes the smart decisions most of the time. He keeps plays alive better than any defenseman the Rangers have had probably since Leetch by pinching and sending pucks deep so that a forecheck and cycle can continue. Those are not the kinds of these that show up on a stat sheet but are incredibly important.

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03-10-2013, 12:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRightWay View Post
He's phenomenal on the transition, and specifically gaining the zone with the puck. He rarely turns the puck over at the point and makes the smart decisions most of the time. He keeps plays alive better than any defenseman the Rangers have had probably since Leetch by pinching and sending pucks deep so that a forecheck and cycle can continue. Those are not the kinds of these that show up on a stat sheet but are incredibly important.
Everything you just mentioned about Mcdonagh are things Subban does too and particularly well, especially carrying the puck in and sending the puck in deep.

Although I'll admit he does turnover the puck a bit more than he should as you mentioned earlier, very few of those turnovers have directly resulted in goals because he recovers the puck and he sometimes gets bailed out but the reason he turns over the puck is because he plays with a certain edginess to his game and like most players that play with an edge/risks to their game, he is bound to turn over the puck (I'm not saying he's excused from turning it over, just saying its inevitable in some cases). I'll admit I don't watch Mcdonagh often, only when they play the habs or sometimes when the rangers play pit/phi, but correct my if I'm wrong when I say that I always see Mcdonagh more defensive and less riskier than Subban (which is not a bad thing either) cause Subban often tries to dangle or skate along the blue line which is sometimes a good thing and other times a bad thing (turnover).


Last edited by ottawa*: 03-10-2013 at 12:13 AM.
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03-10-2013, 12:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 19NYSports91 View Post
Not really close. McDonagh is definitely better than Subban defensively.
PK Subban is now playing more than 27 minutes a game on the #1 team in the East. He must do something right defensively I guess. If some aspect of their game is not really close it's the offense where Subban>>>McDonaugh.

McDonaugh is really good... but Subban like good.

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03-10-2013, 12:13 AM
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Originally Posted by ottawa View Post
Everything you just mentioned about Mcdonagh are things Subban does too and particularly well, especially carrying the puck in and sending the puck in deep. Although I'll admit he does turnover the puck a bit more than he should as you mentioned earlier, very few of those turnovers have directly resulted in goals because he recovers the puck and he sometimes gets bailed out but the reason he turns over the puck is because he plays with a certain edginess to his game and like most players that play with an edge/risks to their game, he is bound to turn over the puck (I'm not saying he's excused from turning it over, just saying its inevitable in some cases)
Now you can point out the part where I claimed Subban didn't do those things. All I mentioned was that, just as Subban's defensive abilities are underrated by some (as a Habs fan pointed out), the same can be said just the same about McDonagh's offense.

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03-10-2013, 12:14 AM
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Originally Posted by TheRightWay View Post
Now you can point out the part where I claimed Subban didn't do those things. All I mentioned was that, just as Subban's defensive abilities are underrated by some (as a Habs fan pointed out), the same can be said just the same about McDonagh's offense.
I don't think every habs fan would agree with the previous poster imo. Weber isn't doing great offensively just like Doughty but we all know what they're capable of. In no way is Mcdonagh close to either Doughty or Weber but I think for the most part both fanbases can agree that Mcdonagh numbers can be better. But in the end I still think Subbans offense is easily better than Mcdonaghs (by how much is debatable)

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03-10-2013, 12:18 AM
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I don't think every habs fan would agree with the previous poster imo. Weber isn't doing great offensively just like Doughty but we all know what they're capable of. In no way is Mcdonagh close to either Doughty or Weber but I think for the most part both fanbases can agree that Mcdonagh numbers can be better
Part of the reason McDonagh's "numbers" aren't as high as they could be is because he gets no PP time. Even though he is capable of it, Tortorella simply can't afford to play him on the PP on top of the 25+ minutes he's already getting usually. Take Subban off the PP and suddenly his numbers don't look so fantstic. That's not a knock on Subban - the PP is an important part of the game and shouldn't be discredited - my point is just that, as I'm sure you at least are aware, goals and assists can be extremely deceiving or at least incomplete for determining the offensive productivity of a defenseman.

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03-10-2013, 12:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRightWay View Post
And the same could be said about McDonagh offensively. Stat obsessors are going to disagree but intelligent hockey fans will know that there is MUCH more to measuring the offense of a defenseman than points.
Well at some point providing pure raw offense, like you know in actual goals that wins games, has to account for something.

Subban's offensive edge is greater than McDonagh's defensive one and that makes PK the better overall Dman IMO.

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03-10-2013, 01:00 AM
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Well at some point providing pure raw offense, like you know in actual goals that wins games, has to account for something.

Subban's offensive edge is greater than McDonagh's defensive one and that makes PK the better overall Dman IMO.
You want "pure raw offense"? Okay. Ryan McDonagh was 7th out of all defensemen last season in even strength points. Subban wasn't even in the top 30. Now, I give Subban the edge nonetheless offensively, but I will once again point out that the statistical gap between the two is largely distorted by Subban's PP time that McDonagh is not afforded. If we're talking about fantasy leagues then that's one thing; but attempting to measure offensive ability through goals and assists alone without putting the numbers into context is incredibly ignorant.

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03-10-2013, 01:09 AM
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McDonagh.

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03-10-2013, 01:18 AM
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PK Subban.

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