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100 Greatest NHL players

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Old
04-24-2005, 08:16 AM
  #76
reckoning
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chooch
You say:
"I like to use the stats and evidence available to uncover the truth - or as close to the truth as I can get."

Well, I'm trying to give you evidence but you dont want to listen. You just want stats!

There are so many things wrong with your "method" I dont know where to begin: Where is Bob Gainey??

Not even the top 100 of all time!!! I actually saw the Habs teams of the 70's and Gainey was as valuable to it as Messier to the 80's Oilers. A leader and Captain of the Habs, 16 years on one team - An award was created for him!

There are no intangibles on your list - You think Steve Shutt was a top 100 player but not Gainey? There is no justification for 7 points for a Hart and 0 points for being second in Hart voting? Or points for being a second team left winger (the weakest position for many years in the nhl) rather than the 3rd best centre in the league? I mean why not give points for being a Molson star of the game? Thats just as accurate as most of your system.

If you`re going to have Bob Gainey in the top 100, then you should have Craig Ramsay and Don Marcotte there too because they were just as good defensively and much better offensively. Before you jump down my throat, yes- I`ve seen all these guys play.

You say that since Gretzky was "only" +98 when he had over 200 points and Lafleur was +89 with 136 points that that proves that Lafleur was a better all-around player. Let`s take that a step further:

1976-77:

Lafleur 136 pts +89
Shutt 105 pts +88
Robinson 85 pts +120

So Lafleur has 31 more points than Shutt but is only one +/- point higher. Using your logic that means Shutt was the better player. Plus, Lafleur`s mark doesn`t even touch Robinson`s; I mean it`s not even close.

Robinson was a great three- zone defenceman who used his size better than any big player in the 70s. Not quite as good defensively as Savard but still very tough to get around; and when he came up the ice with the puck, nobody could stop him- I`ll never forget that end-to-end goal he scored against Boston in the `78 final. He was usually among the top scoring defencemen in the league. Plus, similar to Clark Gillies, he was an enforcer who rarely had to fight- his mere presence acted as a deterrent. Everybody knew how tough he was (he beat the crap out of Dave Schultz early in his career) so they didn`t provoke him by cheap-shoting any of the Habs stars (there was a level of respect back then that`s gone now.)

So could it be that Robinson was in fact Montreal`s best player, and Lafleur was just along for the ride? Montreal won the Cup the year after Lafleur quit so they obviously didn`t need him much. If Edmonton`s `90 Cup "proves" Gretzky wasn`t that valuable, wouldn`t the same logic apply here?

Oh, for my money i thought Gil Perreault and Denis Savard were more exciting to watch than Lafleur.

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Old
04-24-2005, 09:48 AM
  #77
pnep
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogopogo

Here are the 100 greatest players of all time:

OK

This is my list,
same idea but more data taken into account

"HHOF Monitor" (Goalies included)

# 3 column -Adj PTS or Adj WINS (for Goalie)
# 4 column - PO PTS or Adj PO WINS
# 5 - All Star Games

# - POS - Seas. - 3 - 4 - 5 - 1 ALL STAR - 2 ALL STAR - HHOF? - HHOF Monitor - Player Name
================================================== ==============
001 -- C -- 20 -- 2260 -- 382 -- 19 -- 08 -- 7 -- Y -- 8827,02 -- Gretzky Wayne
002 -- R -- 26 -- 2113 -- 160 -- 23 -- 12 -- 9 -- Y -- 6171,61 -- Howe Gordie
003 -- D -- 22 -- 1293 -- 180 -- 20 -- 13 -- 6 -- Y -- 4664,82 -- Bourque Ray
004 -- C -- 16 -- 1409 -- 172 -- 11 -- 05 -- 4 -- Y -- 4586,35 -- Lemieux Mario
005 -- C -- 20 -- 1335 -- 176 -- 14 -- 06 -- 3 -- Y -- 4253,44 -- Beliveau Jean

006 -- C -- 18 -- 1449 -- 137 -- 10 -- 06 -- 2 -- Y -- 4096,48 -- Esposito Phil
007 -- D -- 12 -- 0819 -- 092 -- 07 -- 08 -- 1 -- Y -- 4037,97 -- Orr Bobby
008 -- R -- 18 -- 1178 -- 126 -- 13 -- 08 -- 6 -- Y -- 3829,98 -- Richard Maurice
009 -- L -- 16 -- 1236 -- 129 -- 12 -- 10 -- 2 -- Y -- 3671,88 -- Hull Bobby
010 -- C -- 22 -- 1417 -- 150 -- 10 -- 06 -- 3 -- Y -- 3583,61 -- Mikita Stan

011 -- D -- 20 -- 0619 -- 072 -- 13 -- 10 -- 1 -- Y -- 3467,36 -- Harvey Doug
012 -- R -- 14 -- 1297 -- 154 -- 09 -- 06 -- 1 -- - -- 3237,64 -- Jagr Jaromir
013 -- G -- 19 -- 0566 -- 150 -- 11 -- 04 -- 2 -- - -- 3235,65 -- Roy Patrick
014 -- G -- 13 -- 0309 -- 053 -- 06 -- 06 -- 0 -- - -- 3221,51 -- Hasek Dominik
015 -- G -- 18 -- 0471 -- 090 -- 13 -- 07 -- 4 -- Y -- 3155,64 -- Hall Glenn
016 -- R -- 17 -- 1082 -- 134 -- 07 -- 06 -- 0 -- Y -- 3060,04 -- Lafleur Guy
017 -- G -- 18 -- 0498 -- 134 -- 08 -- 03 -- 4 -- Y -- 3036,02 -- Plante Jacques
018 -- C -- 25 -- 1601 -- 295 -- 16 -- 04 -- 1 -- - -- 3030,49 -- Messier Mark
019 -- D -- 21 -- 1225 -- 196 -- 14 -- 04 -- 4 -- Y -- 2958,37 -- Coffey Paul
020 -- D -- 20 -- 0959 -- 092 -- 13 -- 06 -- 2 -- Y -- 2925,27 -- Kelly Red
021 -- G -- 21 -- 0522 -- 107 -- 11 -- 03 -- 4 -- Y -- 2756,29 -- Sawchuk Terry
022 -- D -- 15 -- 0805 -- 164 -- 10 -- 05 -- 2 -- Y -- 2618,40 -- Potvin Denis
023 -- G -- 08 -- 0267 -- 106 -- 06 -- 05 -- 1 -- Y -- 2564,97 -- Dryden Ken
024 -- D -- 23 -- 1089 -- 160 -- 12 -- 04 -- 3 -- - -- 2491,13 -- Macinnis Al
025 -- D -- 13 -- 0696 -- 116 -- 08 -- 06 -- 0 -- - -- 2473,00 -- Lidstrom Nicklas
026 -- C -- 18 -- 1092 -- 184 -- 09 -- 02 -- 2 -- Y -- 2430,01 -- Trottier Bryan
027 -- D -- 14 -- 0518 -- 061 -- 08 -- 05 -- 3 -- Y -- 2411,71 -- Pilote Pierre
028 -- R -- 10 -- 0863 -- 160 -- 08 -- 05 -- 3 -- Y -- 2391,58 -- Bossy Mike
029 -- L -- 17 -- 1054 -- 096 -- 11 -- 08 -- 1 -- Y -- 2383,07 -- Lindsay Ted
030 -- C -- 18 -- 1393 -- 045 -- 09 -- 02 -- 2 -- Y -- 2336,59 -- Dionne Marcel
031 -- D -- 21 -- 0782 -- 137 -- 12 -- 05 -- 2 -- - -- 2331,12 -- Chelios Chris
032 -- C -- 14 -- 1022 -- 036 -- 00 -- 03 -- 1 -- Y -- 2317,23 -- Boucher Frank
033 -- D -- 20 -- 0723 -- 144 -- 11 -- 03 -- 3 -- Y -- 2280,45 -- Robinson Larry
034 -- C -- 16 -- 1327 -- 169 -- 11 -- 03 -- 0 -- - -- 2277,52 -- Sakic Joe
035 -- C -- 15 -- 0977 -- 119 -- 09 -- 02 -- 2 -- Y -- 2207,41 -- Clarke Bobby
036 -- D -- 14 -- 0647 -- 019 -- 00 -- 07 -- 1 -- Y -- 2190,88 -- Shore Eddie
037 -- C -- 14 -- 1126 -- 033 -- 00 -- 02 -- 1 -- Y -- 2170,92 -- Morenz Howie
038 -- L -- 18 -- 1130 -- 118 -- 15 -- 03 -- 6 -- Y -- 2148,01 -- Mahovlich Frank
039 -- D -- 17 -- 0719 -- 125 -- 09 -- 05 -- 2 -- Y -- 2128,31 -- Park Brad
040 -- R -- 19 -- 1313 -- 187 -- 08 -- 03 -- 0 -- - -- 2108,73 -- Hull Brett
041 -- G -- 10 -- 0390 -- 064 -- 02 -- 02 -- 6 -- Y -- 2083,45 -- Brimsek Frank
042 -- R -- 16 -- 0960 -- 118 -- 11 -- 01 -- 2 -- Y -- 2057,93 -- Geoffrion Bernie
043 -- G -- 07 -- 0306 -- 054 -- 03 -- 06 -- 0 -- Y -- 2049,78 -- Durnan Bill
044 -- C -- 14 -- 0752 -- 064 -- 03 -- 03 -- 2 -- Y -- 2014,89 -- Lach Elmer
045 -- C -- 20 -- 1087 -- 129 -- 10 -- 01 -- 3 -- Y -- 1992,40 -- Richard Henri
046 -- C -- 10 -- 0614 -- 054 -- 01 -- 02 -- 3 -- Y -- 1991,12 -- Apps C.J. Syl
047 -- C -- 13 -- 0730 -- 046 -- 00 -- 04 -- 1 -- Y -- 1981,05 -- Cowley Bill
048 -- R -- 17 -- 1109 -- 233 -- 09 -- 02 -- 3 -- Y -- 1967,58 -- Kurri Jari
049 -- G -- 12 -- 0416 -- 084 -- 08 -- 02 -- 2 -- - -- 1966,82 -- Brodeur Martin
050 -- C -- 21 -- 1493 -- 181 -- 09 -- 01 -- 0 -- - -- 1962,55 -- Yzerman Steve

051 -- C -- 24 -- 1373 -- 104 -- 13 -- 00 -- 2 -- Y -- 1945,53 -- Delvecchio Alex
052 -- D -- 22 -- 0747 -- 118 -- 13 -- 02 -- 3 -- - -- 1919,10 -- Stevens Scott
053 -- R -- 17 -- 1067 -- 035 -- 08 -- 02 -- 2 -- Y -- 1838,44 -- Bathgate Andy
054 -- G -- 16 -- 0439 -- 056 -- 07 -- 03 -- 2 -- Y -- 1802,66 -- Esposito Tony
055 -- C -- 14 -- 0681 -- 060 -- 06 -- 00 -- 3 -- Y -- 1780,31 -- Kennedy Ted
056 -- G -- 14 -- 0461 -- 121 -- 04 -- 02 -- 1 -- Y -- 1774,71 -- Broda Turk
057 -- D -- 17 -- 0907 -- 097 -- 09 -- 02 -- 3 -- - -- 1751,05 -- Leetch Brian
058 -- C -- 23 -- 1559 -- 143 -- 04 -- 00 -- 0 -- - -- 1727,51 -- Francis Ron
059 -- R -- 12 -- 0731 -- 035 -- 00 -- 03 -- 2 -- Y -- 1705,41 -- Conacher Charlie
060 -- L -- 23 -- 1343 -- 103 -- 08 -- 01 -- 1 -- Y -- 1704,67 -- Bucyk John
061 -- C -- 19 -- 1255 -- 156 -- 05 -- 00 -- 1 -- - -- 1663,26 -- Oates Adam
062 -- C -- 16 -- 0789 -- 049 -- 04 -- 03 -- 1 -- Y -- 1643,44 -- Schmidt Milt
063 -- D -- 20 -- 0651 -- 027 -- 08 -- 03 -- 4 -- Y -- 1623,36 -- Gadsby Bill
064 -- G -- 16 -- 0450 -- 088 -- 05 -- 02 -- 1 -- - -- 1610,36 -- Belfour Ed
065 -- R -- 14 -- 0693 -- 110 -- 07 -- 02 -- 1 -- Y -- 1601,68 -- Moore Dickie
066 -- R -- 12 -- 0954 -- 033 -- 09 -- 02 -- 2 -- - -- 1594,78 -- Selanne Teemu
067 -- C -- 15 -- 1096 -- 028 -- 00 -- 00 -- 0 -- Y -- 1591,04 -- Stewart Nels
068 -- C -- 20 -- 1263 -- 083 -- 09 -- 01 -- 1 -- Y -- 1589,68 -- Ullman Norm
069 -- G -- 15 -- 0292 -- 070 -- 04 -- 01 -- 0 -- Y -- 1586,99 -- Bower Johnny
070 -- L -- 18 -- 1249 -- 127 -- 08 -- 05 -- 3 -- - -- 1581,43 -- Robitaille Luc
071 -- R -- 11 -- 0801 -- 024 -- 00 -- 03 -- 1 -- Y -- 1574,74 -- Cook Bill
072 -- C -- 18 -- 0948 -- 068 -- 08 -- 00 -- 2 -- Y -- 1561,86 -- Keon Dave
073 -- G -- 13 -- 0283 -- 052 -- 05 -- 02 -- 0 -- Y -- 1546,38 -- Parent Bernie
074 -- C -- 09 -- 0758 -- 127 -- 05 -- 03 -- 0 -- - -- 1540,91 -- Forsberg Peter
075 -- L -- 14 -- 0683 -- 062 -- 00 -- 03 -- 2 -- Y -- 1523,65 -- Blake Toe
076 -- L -- 12 -- 0793 -- 026 -- 00 -- 00 -- 0 -- Y -- 1522,64 -- Denneny Cy
077 -- C -- 14 -- 0985 -- 163 -- 06 -- 01 -- 0 -- - -- 1515,40 -- Fedorov Sergei
078 -- D -- 24 -- 0542 -- 050 -- 06 -- 03 -- 3 -- Y -- 1514,63 -- Horton Tim
079 -- R -- 16 -- 0804 -- 127 -- 06 -- 00 -- 4 -- Y -- 1513,83 -- Cournoyer Yvan
080 -- G -- 12 -- 0499 -- 054 -- 00 -- 02 -- 2 -- Y -- 1490,22 -- Thompson Tiny
081 -- C -- 12 -- 0683 -- 045 -- 04 -- 01 -- 1 -- Y -- 1466,37 -- Bentley Max
082 -- L -- 16 -- 1093 -- 029 -- 00 -- 01 -- 3 -- Y -- 1445,63 -- Joliat Aurel
083 -- G -- 19 -- 0410 -- 090 -- 07 -- 01 -- 1 -- Y -- 1379,61 -- Fuhr Grant
084 -- L -- 13 -- 0664 -- 017 -- 05 -- 03 -- 1 -- Y -- 1379,00 -- Bentley Doug
085 -- D -- 21 -- 0389 -- 037 -- 11 -- 02 -- 2 -- Y -- 1365,11 -- Pronovost Marcel
086 -- G -- 16 -- 0427 -- 058 -- 03 -- 02 -- 0 -- Y -- 1346,21 -- Lumley Harry
087 -- C -- 21 -- 1131 -- 098 -- 05 -- 00 -- 1 -- Y -- 1338,69 -- Ratelle Jean
088 -- C -- 13 -- 0694 -- 023 -- 00 -- 00 -- 0 -- Y -- 1334,96 -- Nighbor Frank
089 -- G -- 13 -- 0310 -- 039 -- 06 -- 02 -- 3 -- Y -- 1328,35 -- Giacomin Ed
090 -- L -- 15 -- 0808 -- 030 -- 00 -- 04 -- 1 -- Y -- 1313,90 -- Jackson Busher
091 -- D -- 12 -- 0272 -- 031 -- 05 -- 02 -- 3 -- Y -- 1307,57 -- Laperriere Jacques
092 -- C -- 14 -- 0603 -- 058 -- 03 -- 02 -- 2 -- Y -- 1284,25 -- Abel Sid
093 -- L -- 07 -- 0434 -- 041 -- 00 -- 02 -- 1 -- Y -- 1263,24 -- Drillon Gordie
094 -- R -- 20 -- 0814 -- 030 -- 00 -- 03 -- 3 -- Y -- 1256,80 -- Clapper Dit
095 -- G -- 18 -- 0313 -- 089 -- 01 -- 01 -- 0 -- Y -- 1251,63 -- Smith Billy
096 -- D -- 21 -- 0995 -- 152 -- 03 -- 00 -- 3 -- Y -- 1248,33 -- Murphy Larry
097 -- G -- 19 -- 0386 -- 061 -- 01 -- 01 -- 2 -- - -- 1245,01 -- Barrasso Tom
098 -- G -- 21 -- 0383 -- 067 -- 04 -- 01 -- 1 -- Y -- 1229,92 -- Worsley Lorne Gump
099 -- L -- 14 -- 0711 -- 059 -- 04 -- 00 -- 2 -- Y -- 1224,61 -- Olmstead Bert
100 -- D -- 21 -- 0481 -- 043 -- 08 -- 00 -- 3 -- Y -- 1220,36 -- Stanley Allan

101 -- C -- 20 -- 1209 -- 188 -- 02 -- 00 -- 0 -- - -- 1217,51 -- Gilmour Doug
102 -- D -- 16 -- 0554 -- 061 -- 04 -- 03 -- 0 -- 0 -- 1208,32 -- Howe Mark
103 -- D -- 16 -- 0503 -- 070 -- 05 -- 01 -- 3 -- Y -- 1179,71 -- Lapointe Guy
104 -- R -- 12 -- 0779 -- 070 -- 06 -- 01 -- 2 -- - -- 1179,55 -- Bure Pavel
105 -- R -- 15 -- 0645 -- 063 -- 10 -- 01 -- 0 -- 0 -- 1170,74 -- Provost Claude
106 -- C -- 12 -- 0718 -- 033 -- 00 -- 01 -- 0 -- Y -- 1166,88 -- Barry Marty
107 -- R -- 11 -- 0538 -- 012 -- 00 -- 00 -- 0 -- Y -- 1161,21 -- Dye Babe
108 -- L -- 11 -- 0618 -- 029 -- 00 -- 02 -- 1 -- Y -- 1157,85 -- Schriner Sweeney
109 -- D -- 17 -- 0294 -- 023 -- 08 -- 01 -- 1 -- Y -- 1147,97 -- Johnson Tom
110 -- D -- 12 -- 0448 -- 004 -- 00 -- 01 -- 2 -- Y -- 1143,74 -- Conacher Lionel
111 -- D -- 15 -- 0398 -- 019 -- 00 -- 04 -- 6 -- Y -- 1138,93 -- Seibert Earl
112 -- L -- 10 -- 0734 -- 030 -- 07 -- 03 -- 2 -- - -- 1132,04 -- Kariya Paul
113 -- L -- 17 -- 1100 -- 110 -- 07 -- 02 -- 1 -- - -- 1130,23 -- Shanahan Brendan
114 -- C -- 11 -- 0831 -- 057 -- 06 -- 01 -- 1 -- 0 -- 1127,60 -- Lindros Eric
115 -- D -- 16 -- 0723 -- 017 -- 00 -- 02 -- 2 -- Y -- 1107,21 -- Clancy King
116 -- C -- 17 -- 1058 -- 103 -- 07 -- 00 -- 2 -- Y -- 1096,92 -- Perreault Gil
117 -- D -- 15 -- 0237 -- 027 -- 07 -- 02 -- 1 -- Y -- 1096,51 -- Langway Rod
118 -- C -- 18 -- 1001 -- 116 -- 04 -- 00 -- 0 -- - -- 1086,62 -- Nieuwendyk Joe
119 -- R -- 17 -- 0864 -- 106 -- 03 -- 01 -- 0 -- Y -- 1078,23 -- Mullen Joe
120 -- L -- 14 -- 0789 -- 089 -- 05 -- 02 -- 3 -- - -- 1073,46 -- Leclair John
121 -- D -- 17 -- 0593 -- 049 -- 04 -- 01 -- 5 -- Y -- 1072,21 -- Salming Borje
122 -- L -- 16 -- 0866 -- 214 -- 05 -- 00 -- 0 -- - -- 1062,14 -- Anderson Glenn
123 -- C -- 17 -- 1041 -- 175 -- 07 -- 00 -- 1 -- Y -- 1060,47 -- Savard Denis
124 -- G -- 19 -- 0402 -- 076 -- 05 -- 00 -- 1 -- - -- 1059,36 -- Vernon Mike
125 -- L -- 11 -- 0586 -- 030 -- 01 -- 01 -- 0 -- Y -- 1057,99 -- Conacher Roy
126 -- C -- 16 -- 1103 -- 099 -- 06 -- 00 -- 1 -- Y -- 1055,57 -- Hawerchuk Dale
127 -- R -- 09 -- 0529 -- 024 -- 03 -- 01 -- 1 -- - -- 1053,31 -- Iginla Jarome
128 -- C -- 16 -- 1052 -- 127 -- 07 -- 00 -- 1 -- - -- 1052,95 -- Modano Mike
129 -- D -- 17 -- 0363 -- 068 -- 05 -- 00 -- 1 -- Y -- 1052,54 -- Savard Serge
130 -- D -- 17 -- 0295 -- 030 -- 07 -- 01 -- 0 -- 0 -- 1045,51 -- Talbot Jean Guy
131 -- L -- 15 -- 0888 -- 078 -- 06 -- 03 -- 2 -- Y -- 1042,11 -- Goulet Michel
132 -- R -- 15 -- 0706 -- 084 -- 03 -- 00 -- 1 -- 0 -- 1037,25 -- Rousseau Bobby
133 -- L -- 11 -- 0650 -- 028 -- 05 -- 03 -- 0 -- - -- 1033,03 -- Naslund Markus
134 -- D -- 12 -- 0149 -- 019 -- 04 -- 03 -- 2 -- Y -- 1031,89 -- Stewart Jack
135 -- D -- 15 -- 0227 -- 032 -- 06 -- 03 -- 1 -- Y -- 1028,27 -- Bouchard Emile Butch
136 -- R -- 16 -- 1130 -- 097 -- 07 -- 00 -- 1 -- - -- 1027,25 -- Recchi Mark
137 -- R -- 11 -- 0468 -- 017 -- 00 -- 03 -- 1 -- Y -- 1026,19 -- Hextall Bryan Sr.
138 -- C -- 12 -- 0739 -- 139 -- 02 -- 00 -- 0 -- Y -- 1008,41 -- Lemaire Jacques
139 -- C -- 09 -- 0527 -- 023 -- 00 -- 00 -- 1 -- Y -- 1006,50 -- Primeau Joe
140 -- D -- 13 -- 0350 -- 065 -- 07 -- 01 -- 0 -- 0 -- 1002,30 -- Trembley J.C.
141 -- R -- 17 -- 0934 -- 019 -- 00 -- 01 -- 1 -- Y -- 0998,72 -- Smith Hooley
142 -- L -- 13 -- 0654 -- 098 -- 04 -- 01 -- 2 -- Y -- 0995,24 -- Shutt Steve
143 -- C -- 14 -- 1066 -- 077 -- 08 -- 00 -- 2 -- - -- 0989,87 -- Sundin Mats
144 -- G -- 16 -- 0372 -- 035 -- 03 -- 00 -- 2 -- 0 -- 0987,95 -- Vachon Rogie
145 -- D -- 10 -- 0399 -- 014 -- 00 -- 00 -- 0 -- Y -- 0986,79 -- Cleghorn Sprague
146 -- G -- 11 -- 0439 -- 065 -- 00 -- 00 -- 0 -- Y -- 0983,33 -- Hainsworth George
147 -- C -- 17 -- 0785 -- 044 -- 00 -- 00 -- 1 -- Y -- 0981,43 -- Howe Syd
148 -- D -- 11 -- 0398 -- 051 -- 04 -- 01 -- 2 -- - -- 0980,86 -- Pronger Chris
149 -- D -- 15 -- 0558 -- 063 -- 07 -- 01 -- 3 -- - -- 0971,80 -- Blake Rob
150 -- G -- 07 -- 0200 -- 033 -- 00 -- 03 -- 1 -- Y -- 0968,03 -- Gardiner Chuck
151 -- C -- 14 -- 0613 -- 016 -- 00 -- 02 -- 1 -- Y -- 0957,61 -- Goodfellow Ebbie
152 -- R -- 15 -- 0963 -- 086 -- 04 -- 00 -- 2 -- - -- 0957,39 -- Mogilny Alexander
153 -- G -- 13 -- 0301 -- 028 -- 01 -- 01 -- 1 -- 0 -- 0947,31 -- Liut Mike
154 -- C -- 16 -- 0723 -- 088 -- 01 -- 00 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0939,66 -- Goring Butch
155 -- D -- 14 -- 0350 -- 021 -- 08 -- 03 -- 2 -- Y -- 0936,84 -- Quackenbush Bill
156 -- C -- 10 -- 0465 -- 036 -- 01 -- 00 -- 1 -- Y -- 0928,74 -- O'Connor Buddy
157 -- R -- 15 -- 1035 -- 079 -- 07 -- 00 -- 1 -- 0 -- 0926,37 -- Fleury Theo
158 -- C -- 16 -- 0695 -- 046 -- 05 -- 00 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0923,54 -- Goyette Phil
159 -- C -- 17 -- 0659 -- 059 -- 06 -- 00 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0923,34 -- Backstrom Ralph
160 -- R -- 18 -- 0962 -- 067 -- 08 -- 01 -- 1 -- Y -- 0922,90 -- Gilbert Rod
161 -- C -- 16 -- 1052 -- 116 -- 09 -- 00 -- 0 -- - -- 0922,11 -- Roenick Jeremy
162 -- L -- 13 -- 0694 -- 022 -- 00 -- 01 -- 1 -- 0 -- 0918,99 -- Thompson Paul
163 -- C -- 15 -- 0931 -- 112 -- 06 -- 00 -- 0 -- Y -- 0917,59 -- Stastny Peter
164 -- R -- 10 -- 0375 -- 019 -- 00 -- 00 -- 4 -- Y -- 0911,36 -- Bauer Bobby
165 -- L -- 12 -- 0705 -- 108 -- 07 -- 01 -- 2 -- Y -- 0910,40 -- Barber Bill
166 -- L -- 14 -- 0680 -- 015 -- 00 -- 03 -- 0 -- Y -- 0909,97 -- Siebert Babe
167 -- R -- 20 -- 0716 -- 157 -- 01 -- 00 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0905,05 -- Lemieux Claude
168 -- D -- 19 -- 0326 -- 058 -- 07 -- 00 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0900,22 -- Lowe Kevin
169 -- C -- 17 -- 1168 -- 095 -- 04 -- 00 -- 0 -- - -- 0889,19 -- Turgeon Pierre
170 -- D -- 13 -- 0463 -- 064 -- 03 -- 01 -- 1 -- - -- 0883,53 -- Niedermayer Scott
171 -- D -- 12 -- 0221 -- 020 -- 05 -- 01 -- 3 -- 0 -- 0883,21 -- Brewer Carl
172 -- L -- 16 -- 0389 -- 073 -- 05 -- 00 -- 0 -- Y -- 0882,69 -- Gainey Bob
173 -- D -- 16 -- 0617 -- 080 -- 08 -- 01 -- 2 -- 0 -- 0876,49 -- Wilson Doug
174 -- L -- 15 -- 0648 -- 106 -- 03 -- 01 -- 2 -- - -- 0870,20 -- Stevens Kevin
175 -- C -- 13 -- 0663 -- 047 -- 07 -- 00 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0868,48 -- Mckenney Don
176 -- L -- 16 -- 0682 -- 051 -- 06 -- 00 -- 0 -- Y -- 0867,19 -- Pulford Bob
177 -- L -- 16 -- 0595 -- 027 -- 02 -- 00 -- 3 -- Y -- 0859,63 -- Dumart Woody
178 -- G -- 13 -- 0252 -- 033 -- 04 -- 01 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0858,94 -- Peeters Pete
179 -- G -- 10 -- 0183 -- 018 -- 03 -- 00 -- 3 -- 0 -- 0857,89 -- Rayner Chuck
180 -- R -- 11 -- 0437 -- 019 -- 00 -- 00 -- 0 -- Y -- 0857,32 -- Broadbent Harry Punch
181 -- L -- 12 -- 0468 -- 027 -- 07 -- 01 -- 2 -- 0 -- 0856,17 -- Smith Sid
182 -- L -- 18 -- 0628 -- 079 -- 07 -- 00 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0852,94 -- Duff Dick
183 -- L -- 11 -- 0595 -- 053 -- 07 -- 02 -- 2 -- 0 -- 0850,36 -- Martin Rick
184 -- R -- 14 -- 0760 -- 100 -- 03 -- 00 -- 1 -- 0 -- 0849,95 -- Middleton Rick
185 -- G -- 13 -- 0174 -- 012 -- 03 -- 00 -- 2 -- 0 -- 0836,07 -- Hodge Charlie
186 -- L -- 11 -- 0431 -- 011 -- 04 -- 01 -- 1 -- 0 -- 0831,34 -- Stewart Gaye
187 -- C -- 06 -- 0272 -- 036 -- 02 -- 01 -- 0 -- - -- 0826,79 -- St.Louis Martin
188 -- G -- 11 -- 0349 -- 042 -- 00 -- 01 -- 1 -- 0 -- 0825,12 -- Kerr Dave
189 -- R -- 10 -- 0543 -- 023 -- 00 -- 01 -- 2 -- 0 -- 0824,64 -- Dillon Ceece
190 -- D -- 12 -- 0365 -- 029 -- 00 -- 01 -- 1 -- Y -- 0819,52 -- Pratt Babe
191 -- R -- 13 -- 0547 -- 035 -- 00 -- 00 -- 1 -- 0 -- 0818,42 -- Watson Phil
192 -- D -- 21 -- 1039 -- 054 -- 07 -- 00 -- 1 -- - -- 0817,12 -- Housley Phil
193 -- C -- 15 -- 0779 -- 160 -- 04 -- 00 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0814,27 -- Smith Bobby
194 -- D -- 15 -- 0572 -- 015 -- 00 -- 00 -- 0 -- Y -- 0808,77 -- Boucher George
195 -- C -- 16 -- 0390 -- 029 -- 05 -- 01 -- 1 -- 0 -- 0808,76 -- Mosdell Kenny
196 -- C -- 11 -- 0505 -- 024 -- 00 -- 00 -- 0 -- Y -- 0806,32 -- Smith Clint
197 -- C -- 15 -- 0847 -- 062 -- 05 -- 00 -- 1 -- Y -- 0805,57 -- Lafontaine Pat
198 -- L -- 14 -- 0631 -- 115 -- 02 -- 00 -- 2 -- 0 -- 0805,47 -- Tonelli John
199 -- R -- 21 -- 0794 -- 060 -- 07 -- 00 -- 0 -- Y -- 0802,06 -- Armstrong George

200 -- R -- 14 -- 0731 -- 081 -- 03 -- 02 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0801,52 -- Hodge Ken
201 -- R -- 16 -- 0791 -- 084 -- 05 -- 00 -- 2 -- Y -- 0799,74 -- Mcdonald Lanny
202 -- C -- 15 -- 0899 -- 074 -- 05 -- 00 -- 1 -- Y -- 0798,32 -- Sittler Darryl
203 -- G -- 13 -- 0310 -- 047 -- 01 -- 01 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0794,90 -- Hextall Ron
204 -- R -- 06 -- 0276 -- 015 -- 00 -- 00 -- 0 -- Y -- 0793,21 -- Darragh Jack
205 -- C -- 22 -- 1160 -- 097 -- 02 -- 00 -- 0 -- - -- 0791,87 -- Andreychuk Dave
206 -- D -- 12 -- 0207 -- 007 -- 00 -- 02 -- 2 -- Y -- 0790,66 -- Johnson Ching
207 -- R -- 13 -- 0547 -- 069 -- 02 -- 00 -- 1 -- 0 -- 0787,58 -- Leach Reggie
208 -- L -- 19 -- 0628 -- 023 -- 06 -- 00 -- 1 -- 0 -- 0787,10 -- Marshall Don
209 -- C -- 18 -- 1095 -- 104 -- 03 -- 00 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0786,67 -- Damphousse Vincent
210 -- C -- 11 -- 0679 -- 022 -- 00 -- 00 -- 1 -- Y -- 0786,52 -- Weiland Cooney
211 -- L -- 13 -- 0542 -- 029 -- 00 -- 00 -- 1 -- 0 -- 0785,03 -- Cain Herb
212 -- R -- 14 -- 0660 -- 014 -- 05 -- 00 -- 2 -- Y -- 0784,25 -- Mosienko Bill
213 -- G -- 09 -- 0163 -- 012 -- 01 -- 00 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0783,59 -- Rollins Al
214 -- R -- 19 -- 1090 -- 093 -- 07 -- 00 -- 0 -- Y -- 0782,96 -- Gartner Mike
215 -- G -- 12 -- 0315 -- 009 -- 00 -- 00 -- 2 -- Y -- 0779,19 -- Worters Roy
216 -- R -- 14 -- 0577 -- 043 -- 02 -- 02 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0776,57 -- Wharram Kenny
217 -- L -- 14 -- 0545 -- 094 -- 02 -- 02 -- 0 -- Y -- 0771,26 -- Gillies Clark
218 -- D -- 22 -- 0751 -- 050 -- 07 -- 00 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0771,22 -- Mohns Doug
219 -- C -- 16 -- 0651 -- 072 -- 02 -- 00 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0767,62 -- Mahovlich Pete
220 -- D -- 17 -- 0342 -- 085 -- 00 -- 00 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0763,28 -- Huddy Charlie
221 -- C -- 18 -- 0994 -- 114 -- 03 -- 00 -- 0 -- - -- 0761,14 -- Nicholls Bernie
222 -- R -- 13 -- 0601 -- 089 -- 05 -- 00 -- 4 -- Y -- 0759,62 -- Neely Cam
223 -- L -- 13 -- 0858 -- 053 -- 04 -- 00 -- 2 -- - -- 0751,85 -- Tkachuk Keith
224 -- L -- 14 -- 0561 -- 025 -- 07 -- 00 -- 0 -- Y -- 0750,75 -- Watson Harry
225 -- G -- 14 -- 0229 -- 027 -- 01 -- 01 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0749,34 -- Crozier Roger
226 -- D -- 13 -- 0293 -- 015 -- 07 -- 00 -- 2 -- 0 -- 0748,15 -- Thomson James R.
227 -- L -- 16 -- 0540 -- 132 -- 01 -- 00 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0747,11 -- Tikkanen Esa
228 -- C -- 14 -- 0596 -- 018 -- 03 -- 00 -- 1 -- 0 -- 0745,81 -- Henry Camille
229 -- R -- 14 -- 0854 -- 056 -- 05 -- 00 -- 0 -- - -- 0743,20 -- Bondra Peter
230 -- R -- 19 -- 1000 -- 118 -- 04 -- 00 -- 0 -- - -- 0738,23 -- Ciccarelli Dino
231 -- L -- 11 -- 0717 -- 018 -- 00 -- 00 -- 1 -- Y -- 0736,48 -- Cook Bun
232 -- L -- 16 -- 0741 -- 008 -- 00 -- 00 -- 0 -- Y -- 0728,46 -- Noble Reg
233 -- C -- 13 -- 0584 -- 021 -- 03 -- 00 -- 1 -- 0 -- 0728,17 -- Sloan Tod
234 -- R -- 17 -- 0840 -- 122 -- 03 -- 00 -- 1 -- - -- 0726,86 -- Bellows Brian
235 -- G -- 14 -- 0237 -- 023 -- 03 -- 00 -- 2 -- 0 -- 0726,17 -- Resch Glenn
236 -- C -- 06 -- 0349 -- 025 -- 00 -- 00 -- 0 -- Y -- 0714,35 -- Lalonde Newsy
237 -- D -- 17 -- 0492 -- 050 -- 07 -- 00 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0713,51 -- Vadnais Carol
238 -- R -- 15 -- 0813 -- 131 -- 02 -- 00 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0712,75 -- Larmer Steve
239 -- L -- 15 -- 0766 -- 148 -- 05 -- 00 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0711,04 -- Propp Brian
240 -- G -- 12 -- 0375 -- 032 -- 00 -- 00 -- 0 -- Y -- 0704,10 -- Connell Alex
241 -- D -- 12 -- 0516 -- 090 -- 07 -- 01 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0701,60 -- Ozolinsh Sandis
242 -- R -- 13 -- 0573 -- 019 -- 00 -- 02 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0700,50 -- Carr Lorne
243 -- C -- 19 -- 0546 -- 094 -- 00 -- 00 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0696,94 -- Carbonneau Guy
244 -- D -- 17 -- 0717 -- 073 -- 04 -- 00 -- 1 -- 0 -- 0696,54 -- Suter Gary
245 -- L -- 10 -- 0491 -- 016 -- 00 -- 01 -- 1 -- Y -- 0696,40 -- Patrick Lynn
246 -- D -- 16 -- 0518 -- 076 -- 03 -- 00 -- 2 -- 0 -- 0687,87 -- Desjardins Eric
247 -- D -- 13 -- 0427 -- 034 -- 00 -- 01 -- 1 -- 0 -- 0685,40 -- Hollett Flash
248 -- G -- 11 -- 0164 -- 006 -- 00 -- 00 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0682,18 -- Larocque Michel R.
249 -- R -- 18 -- 0838 -- 112 -- 04 -- 00 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0681,08 -- Tocchet Rick

250 -- D -- 21 -- 0439 -- 006 -- 07 -- 01 -- 0 -- Y -- 0674,12 -- Howell Harry
.
.
253 -- C -- 10 -- 0695 -- 027 -- 03 -- 00 -- 1 -- - -- 0669,33 -- Yashin Alexei
.
255 -- L -- 09 -- 0480 -- 078 -- 02 -- 01 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0662,78 -- Elias Patrik
256 -- G -- 20 -- 0387 -- 028 -- 03 -- 01 -- 1 -- 0 -- 0661,42 -- Vanbiesbrouck John
.
260 -- C -- 11 -- 0518 -- 000 -- 00 -- 00 -- 0 -- Y -- 0659,22 -- Burch Billy
.
263 -- D -- 12 -- 0589 -- 101 -- 03 -- 00 -- 0 -- - -- 0654,90 -- Zubov Sergei
264 -- R -- 08 -- 0522 -- 007 -- 00 -- 00 -- 0 -- Y -- 0653,08 -- Bailey Ace I.
.
267 -- G -- 11 -- 0314 -- 045 -- 01 -- 00 -- 1 -- 0 -- 0649,88 -- Osgood Chris
268 -- G -- 18 -- 0384 -- 067 -- 04 -- 00 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0647,18 -- Moog Andy
.
271 -- C -- 14 -- 0845 -- 101 -- 02 -- 00 -- 0 -- Y -- 0628,44 -- Federko Bernie
272 -- D -- 17 -- 0244 -- 012 -- 06 -- 00 -- 3 -- Y -- 0623,72 -- Flaman Fernie
273 -- G -- 13 -- 0537 -- 083 -- 00 -- 00 -- 0 -- Y -- 0622,13 -- Benedict Clint
.
275 -- R -- 20 -- 0939 -- 062 -- 02 -- 00 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0621,43 -- Verbeek Pat
.
279 -- L -- 19 -- 0806 -- 069 -- 07 -- 00 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0617,14 -- Muller Kirk
.
283 -- C -- 16 -- 0862 -- 089 -- 01 -- 00 -- 0 -- - -- 0609,78 -- Brind'Amour Rod
284 -- D -- 07 -- 0158 -- 007 -- 03 -- 02 -- 3 -- Y -- 0607,82 -- Reardon Ken
.
289 -- R -- 14 -- 0830 -- 051 -- 05 -- 00 -- 0 -- - -- 0600,76 -- Amonte Tony
290 -- R -- 13 -- 0643 -- 044 -- 03 -- 00 -- 1 -- - -- 0600,60 -- Guerin Bill
.
295 -- D -- 14 -- 0388 -- 009 -- 00 -- 00 -- 2 -- Y -- 0594,91 -- Mantha Sylvio
.
298 -- C -- 12 -- 0402 -- 026 -- 01 -- 00 -- 3 -- Y -- 0586,84 -- Colville Neil
299 -- C -- 14 -- 0803 -- 055 -- 04 -- 00 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0586,64 -- Weight Doug
.
301 -- L -- 07 -- 0315 -- 006 -- 00 -- 00 -- 0 -- Y -- 0583,67 -- Malone Joe
.
304 -- R -- 15 -- 0743 -- 081 -- 03 -- 00 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0577,35 -- Sandstrom Tomas
.
306 -- C -- 14 -- 0605 -- 097 -- 01 -- 00 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0574,68 -- Larionov Igor
.
309 -- C -- 19 -- 0809 -- 118 -- 01 -- 00 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0567,44 -- Hunter Dale
.
320 -- L -- 20 -- 0839 -- 106 -- 00 -- 00 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0555,69 -- Thomas Steve
.
322 -- R -- 06 -- 0436 -- 061 -- 02 -- 00 -- 1 -- - -- 0554,03 -- Hejduk Milan
.
328 -- R -- 16 -- 0763 -- 092 -- 01 -- 00 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0543,38 -- Linden Trevor
329 -- L -- 16 -- 0596 -- 065 -- 01 -- 00 -- 1 -- 0 -- 0543,05 -- Graves Adam
330 -- L -- 17 -- 0734 -- 085 -- 03 -- 00 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0541,87 -- Roberts Gary
.
333 -- C -- 14 -- 0638 -- 057 -- 02 -- 00 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0540,91 -- Holik Bobby
334 -- L -- 17 -- 0698 -- 109 -- 00 -- 00 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0537,77 -- Courtnall Geoff
335 -- R -- 18 -- 0749 -- 083 -- 02 -- 00 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0537,49 -- Maclean John
336 -- R -- 16 -- 0683 -- 087 -- 00 -- 00 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0533,36 -- Young Scott
.
338 -- G -- 09 -- 0124 -- 011 -- 02 -- 00 -- 1 -- - -- 0527,30 -- Theodore Jose
339 -- R -- 14 -- 0744 -- 035 -- 05 -- 00 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0526,79 -- Nolan Owen
340 -- D -- 13 -- 0416 -- 053 -- 02 -- 00 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0525,99 -- Sydor Darryl
.
343 -- L -- 11 -- 0610 -- 023 -- 00 -- 00 -- 0 -- Y -- 0522,93 -- Lewis Herbie
.
349 -- C -- 18 -- 0806 -- 086 -- 00 -- 00 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0518,94 -- Ronning Cliff
350 -- C -- 12 -- 0718 -- 019 -- 01 -- 00 -- 1 -- 0 -- 0517,97 -- Zhamnov Alexei
.
352 -- D -- 20 -- 0148 -- 022 -- 00 -- 00 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0517,81 -- Daneyko Ken
.
354 -- R -- 12 -- 0691 -- 077 -- 02 -- 00 -- 0 -- - -- 0517,28 -- Kovalev Alexei
355 -- G -- 13 -- 0242 -- 069 -- 02 -- 00 -- 0 -- Y -- 0517,20 -- Cheevers Gerry
.
360 -- D -- 06 -- 0323 -- 015 -- 00 -- 00 -- 0 -- Y -- 0513,32 -- Cameron Harry
.
363 -- R -- 09 -- 0575 -- 048 -- 04 -- 00 -- 0 -- - -- 0510,56 -- Alfredsson Daniel
.
372 -- D -- 11 -- 0181 -- 009 -- 00 -- 00 -- 4 -- Y -- 0500,50 -- Coulter Art
.
376 -- D -- 17 -- 0596 -- 059 -- 05 -- 00 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0496,56 -- Hatcher Kevin
.
378 -- L -- 13 -- 0574 -- 079 -- 00 -- 00 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0496,07 -- Kozlov Vyacheslav
379 -- C -- 12 -- 0639 -- 106 -- 00 -- 00 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0495,55 -- Janney Craig
.
383 -- D -- 12 -- 0292 -- 017 -- 00 -- 00 -- 0 -- Y -- 0492,36 -- Horner Red
.
385 -- D -- 10 -- 0432 -- 036 -- 03 -- 00 -- 2 -- - -- 0491,31 -- Gonchar Sergei
386 -- R -- 16 -- 0431 -- 074 -- 00 -- 00 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0489,48 -- Keane Mike
387 -- C -- 19 -- 0649 -- 087 -- 03 -- 00 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0486,59 -- Corson Shayne
.
392 -- C -- 04 -- 0283 -- 031 -- 00 -- 00 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0482,69 -- Richards Brad
393 -- C -- 18 -- 0809 -- 044 -- 01 -- 00 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0478,67 -- Ferraro Ray
394 -- D -- 17 -- 0178 -- 028 -- 00 -- 00 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0478,21 -- Ludwig Craig
.
399 -- R -- 19 -- 0723 -- 053 -- 01 -- 00 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0474,61 -- Mellanby Scott
.
404 -- D -- 17 -- 0325 -- 049 -- 01 -- 00 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0470,06 -- Svoboda Petr
.
406 -- D -- 06 -- 0156 -- 019 -- 00 -- 00 -- 1 -- 0 -- 0469,37 -- Konstantinov Vladimir
.
411 -- C -- 11 -- 0587 -- 057 -- 01 -- 00 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0465,37 -- Arnott Jason
.
414 -- L -- 06 -- 0263 -- 008 -- 00 -- 00 -- 0 -- Y -- 0464,43 -- Gerard Eddie
415 -- R -- 11 -- 0542 -- 043 -- 03 -- 00 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0464,15 -- Demitra Pavol
.
418 -- D -- 17 -- 0441 -- 050 -- 01 -- 00 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0461,82 -- Wesley Glen
.
422 -- C -- 05 -- 0305 -- 042 -- 01 -- 00 -- 0 -- - -- 0459,72 -- Gomez Scott
.
425 -- R -- 11 -- 0695 -- 019 -- 04 -- 00 -- 0 -- - -- 0456,43 -- Palffy Zigmund
.
427 -- L -- 16 -- 0549 -- 056 -- 00 -- 00 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0455,64 -- Gelinas Martin
.
429 -- R -- 13 -- 0617 -- 050 -- 00 -- 00 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0453,38 -- Sheppard Ray
.
435 -- G -- 08 -- 0159 -- 012 -- 01 -- 00 -- 1 -- 0 -- 0447,80 -- Turek Roman
.
451 -- C -- 13 -- 0541 -- 079 -- 00 -- 00 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0434,31 -- Juneau Joe
452 -- C -- 12 -- 0528 -- 050 -- 01 -- 00 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0433,85 -- Straka Martin
453 -- C -- 10 -- 0361 -- 013 -- 04 -- 00 -- 0 -- Y -- 0433,29 -- Laprade Edgar
.
456 -- L -- 14 -- 0523 -- 011 -- 00 -- 00 -- 0 -- Y -- 0432,69 -- Day Hap
457 -- C -- 14 -- 0620 -- 057 -- 02 -- 00 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0432,18 -- Primeau Keith
.
467 -- C -- 07 -- 0435 -- 018 -- 03 -- 00 -- 1 -- - -- 0425,28 -- Thornton Joe
.
485 -- C -- 17 -- 0652 -- 042 -- 01 -- 00 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0413,08 -- Adams Greg
.
493 -- R -- 11 -- 0502 -- 016 -- 00 -- 00 -- 0 -- Y -- 0407,19 -- Oliver Harry
.
500 -- R -- 19 -- 0641 -- 041 -- 03 -- 00 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0401,59 -- Dineen Kevin
.
502 -- D -- 13 -- 0288 -- 028 -- 01 -- 00 -- 1 -- 0 -- 0400,81 -- Hatcher Derian
503 -- C -- 14 -- 0569 -- 066 -- 00 -- 00 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0400,70 -- Ricci Mike
.
505 -- D -- 13 -- 0228 -- 041 -- 00 -- 00 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0400,04 -- Foote Adam
.
508 -- R -- 09 -- 0474 -- 059 -- 00 -- 00 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0396,13 -- Sykora Petr
.
516 -- D -- 16 -- 0529 -- 038 -- 02 -- 00 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0389,30 -- Schneider Mathieu
.
520 -- R -- 09 -- 0352 -- 037 -- 01 -- 00 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0388,03 -- Lehtinen Jere
.
525 -- D -- 09 -- 0197 -- 028 -- 02 -- 00 -- 0 -- Y -- 0384,77 -- Fetisov Viacheslav
.
528 -- G -- 13 -- 0235 -- 020 -- 02 -- 01 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0381,97 -- Kolzig Olaf
.
531 -- L -- 14 -- 0605 -- 019 -- 02 -- 00 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0381,27 -- Sanderson Geoff
.
533 -- G -- 15 -- 0410 -- 062 -- 02 -- 00 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0378,06 -- Joseph Curtis
.
538 -- C -- 13 -- 0665 -- 039 -- 00 -- 00 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0376,73 -- Nedved Petr
.
541 -- L -- 13 -- 0575 -- 037 -- 00 -- 00 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0374,53 -- Mceachern Shawn
542 -- L -- 09 -- 0471 -- 014 -- 02 -- 01 -- 0 -- - -- 0374,51 -- Bertuzzi Todd
.
547 -- C -- 13 -- 0412 -- 030 -- 00 -- 00 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0371,17 -- Sanderson Derek
.
549 -- L -- 09 -- 0541 -- 035 -- 02 -- 00 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0370,41 -- Satan Miroslav
.
557 -- C -- 14 -- 0246 -- 038 -- 00 -- 00 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0366,19 -- Draper Kris
.
561 -- G -- 04 -- 0096 -- 007 -- 02 -- 00 -- 1 -- 0 -- 0364,70 -- Turco Marty
562 -- D -- 07 -- 0136 -- 010 -- 01 -- 01 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0364,48 -- Chara Zdeno
563 -- C -- 13 -- 0522 -- 053 -- 00 -- 00 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0363,91 -- Barnes Stu
.
567 -- R -- 11 -- 0280 -- 045 -- 00 -- 00 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0359,96 -- Mccarty Darren
.
570 -- C -- 15 -- 0685 -- 011 -- 00 -- 00 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0358,60 -- Cassels Andrew
.
572 -- L -- 10 -- 0449 -- 023 -- 00 -- 00 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0357,46 -- Stillman Cory
.
576 -- D -- 12 -- 0374 -- 039 -- 02 -- 00 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0355,44 -- Zhitnik Alexei
.
584 -- L -- 10 -- 0517 -- 029 -- 00 -- 00 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0352,48 -- Friesen Jeff
.
591 -- L -- 03 -- 0222 -- 000 -- 01 -- 00 -- 1 -- - -- 0350,90 -- Kovalchuk Ilya


Last edited by pnep: 06-15-2005 at 07:05 PM.
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Old
04-24-2005, 09:50 AM
  #78
pnep
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"HHOF Monitor" formula for Goalies =
Adjusted Wins/5 +
Adjusted (W-L)/2 +
2* Adjusted PO Wins +
Cup - 50 pts +
Final - 25 pts +
All Star Games - 20 pts +
Calder - 150 pts +
Calder Runner Up - 70 pts +
1 ALL STAR TEAM - 125 pts +
2 ALL STAR TEAM - 100 pts +
Vezina - 100 pts +
Vezina Runner Up - 75 pts +
Jennings - 50 pts +
Jennings Runner Up - 30 pts +
Konn Smythe - 200 pts +
LESTER PEARSON - 300 pts +
Hart - 250 pts +
Hart Runner Up - 200 pts +


"HHOF Monitor" formula for LW,C,RW =
Adjusted PTS/2 +
PO PTS +
Top 10 in Goals after Season - 5 pts +
# 1 in Goals after Season - 75 pts +
# 2 in Goals after Season - 50 pts +
Top in 10 Assists after Season - 5 pts +
# 1 in Assists after Season - 75 pts +
# 2 in Assists after Season - 50 pts +
Top 10 in PTS after Season - 5 pts +
# 1 in PTS after Season - 75 pts +
# 2 in PTS after Season - 50 pts +
# 1 in "+/-" after Season - 35 pts +
# 2 in "+/-" after Season - 25 pts +
Cup - 50 pts +
Final - 25 pts +
All Star Game - 20 pts +
HART - 150 pts +
HART Runner Up - 100 pts +
BYNG - 75 pts +
BYNG Runner Up - 50 pts +
1 ALL STAR TEAM - 75 pts +
2 ALL STAR TEAM - 50 pts +
CALDER - 35 pts +
CALDER Runner Up - 20 pts +
SELKE - 30 pts +
SELKE Runner Up - 20 pts +
CONN SMYTHE - 150 pts +
LESTER PEARSON - 100 pts


"HHOF Monitor" formula for DEF =
Adj Games/10 +
Adj Pts/10 +
PO Games +
PO Pts +
Top 5 DEF in Goals after Season - 5 pts +
Top 10 in Assist after Season - 15 pts +
Top 5 DEF in Assist after Season - 5 pts +
Top 10 in PTS after Season - 30 pts +
Top 5 DEF in PTS after Season - 5 pts +
# 1 in "+/-" after Season - 50 pts +
# 2 in "+/-" after Season - 35 pts +
Cup - 50 pts +
Final - 25 pts +
All Star Game - 20 pts +
HART - 175 pts +
HART Runner Up - 150 pts +
1 ALL STAR TEAM - 75 pts +
2 ALL STAR TEAM - 50 pts +
CALDER - 35 pts +
CALDER Runner Up - 20 pts +
CONN SMYTHE - 200 pts +
NORRIS - 150 pts +
NORRIS Runner UP - 125 pts +
LESTER PEARSON - 250 pts


Last edited by pnep: 05-14-2005 at 06:59 PM.
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Old
04-24-2005, 10:04 AM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chooch
The Oilers of 99 were FAR superior to Marios teams. #99 in his prime could not have led Marios teams to 2 Cups.
I can only assume there a lot of lead paint in your home as a child.

Only possible explination I can think of for that statement.

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04-24-2005, 10:07 AM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chooch
Youre welcome and thank you too for your stats. Theyre meaningless. What memories do you have - please justify your beliefs! Dont rely on empty stats!!!! Not everyone puts blind faith into them like you do! You need to question these things!!

Did you know that when 99 was winning his first art ross, 12 players were over 100 points!!!!!

Why dont you do draw a comparison to the 12th highest scorer today and extrapolate what St louis would have scored thsi year (for fun since you liek stats!)

You were talking of a great linemate in Jagr to discredit Mario - ignoring Kurri and ignoring that Jagr and Mario definetly were not linemates and in any case in Marios prime jagr was an 18 year old and didnt play regular at times even!
If stats are meaningless, why do you drone on about perhaps the most meaningless of all, the +/-?

The year with the most 100-point players ever was 92-93. Guess who won the Art Ross that year?

Jagr went on to win multiple Art Ross trophies while Mario was retired. When has Kurri won anything without Gretzky?

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04-24-2005, 10:10 AM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chooch
Finally: you shoudl admit that you are a committed Wayne and Edmonton fan. Its only proper.
You should only admit you are a biased Wayne-hater. Well, no need to admit it, we already kinda noticed.

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04-24-2005, 10:10 AM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reckoning
If you`re going to have Bob Gainey in the top 100, then you should have Craig Ramsay and Don Marcotte there too because they were just as good defensively and much better offensively. Before you jump down my throat, yes- I`ve seen all these guys play.

You say that since Gretzky was "only" +98 when he had over 200 points and Lafleur was +89 with 136 points that that proves that Lafleur was a better all-around player. Let`s take that a step further:

1976-77:

Lafleur 136 pts +89
Shutt 105 pts +88
Robinson 85 pts +120

So Lafleur has 31 more points than Shutt but is only one +/- point higher. Using your logic that means Shutt was the better player. Plus, Lafleur`s mark doesn`t even touch Robinson`s; I mean it`s not even close.

Robinson was a great three- zone defenceman who used his size better than any big player in the 70s. Not quite as good defensively as Savard but still very tough to get around; and when he came up the ice with the puck, nobody could stop him- I`ll never forget that end-to-end goal he scored against Boston in the `78 final. He was usually among the top scoring defencemen in the league. Plus, similar to Clark Gillies, he was an enforcer who rarely had to fight- his mere presence acted as a deterrent. Everybody knew how tough he was (he beat the crap out of Dave Schultz early in his career) so they didn`t provoke him by cheap-shoting any of the Habs stars (there was a level of respect back then that`s gone now.)

So could it be that Robinson was in fact Montreal`s best player, and Lafleur was just along for the ride? Montreal won the Cup the year after Lafleur quit so they obviously didn`t need him much. If Edmonton`s `90 Cup "proves" Gretzky wasn`t that valuable, wouldn`t the same logic apply here?

Oh, for my money i thought Gil Perreault and Denis Savard were more exciting to watch than Lafleur.
I respect your opinion - you saw these guys play and are welcome to your beliefs.

small point - shutt and lafleur played every minute together even on power play so I'm not surprised that they are even in +/-. Ask shutt who should have credit for him being an HoF.
As for robinson he was a dynamite player!, but w/o lafleur that team doesnt win 4 in a row and Robinson doesnt get a +120 w/o Lafleur's magic on both ends of the ice. Guy could have played more ice time wise and scored more points and more +/-. And as for habs winning the Cup year in 86 after Lalfeur retired - you know better than that - Lafleur was "done" in 80 after Boutette.

As I said I respect what you said about Perreault or Ramsey/Marcotte (although I may disagree).

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04-24-2005, 10:15 AM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCD
You should only admit you are a biased Wayne-hater. Well, no need to admit it, we already kinda noticed.
What if I admit to you that I found him generally very classy on and off the ice; a smart hockey guy and the 2nd best offensive player of his generation. Is that good enough?

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04-24-2005, 10:18 AM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCD
I can only assume there a lot of lead paint in your home as a child.

Only possible explination I can think of for that statement.
Thats pretty disrespectful for you to say that. I am entitled to my beliefs. Unlike you I've backed them up with stats since you like these. You choose to ignore the +/- , thats ok. How far back have you watched hockey?

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04-24-2005, 12:40 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pnep
"HHOF Monitor" formula for Goalies =
Adjusted Wins/5 +
Adjusted (W-L)/2 +
2* Adjusted PO Wins +
Cup - 50 pts +
Final - 25 pts +
All Star Games - 20 pts +
Calder - 150 pts +
Calder Runner Up - 70 pts +
1 ALL STAR TEAM - 125 pts +
2 ALL STAR TEAM - 100 pts +
Vezina - 100 pts +
Vezina Runner Up - 75 pts +
Jennings - 50 pts +
Jennings Runner Up - 30 pts +
Konn Smythe - 200 pts +
Lester Patrick - 300 pts +
Hart - 250 pts +
Hart Runner Up - 200 pts +


"HHOF Monitor" formula for LW,C,RW =
Adjusted PTS/2 +
PO PTS +
Top 10 Goals/Season - 5 pts +
# 1 Goals/Season - 75 pts +
# 2 Goals/Season - 50 pts +
Top 10 Assists/Season - 5 pts +
# 1 Assists/Season - 75 pts +
# 2 Assists/Season - 50 pts +
Top 10 PTS/Season - 5 pts +
# 1 PTS/Season - 75 pts +
# 2 PTS/Season - 50 pts +
# 1 "+/-" /Season - 35 pts +
# 2 "+/-" /Season - 25 pts +
Cup - 50 pts +
Final - 25 pts +
All Star Game - 20 pts +
HART - 150 pts +
HART Runner Up - 100 pts +
BYNG - 75 pts +
BYNG Runner Up - 50 pts +
1 ALL STAR TEAM - 75 pts +
2 ALL STAR TEAM - 50 pts +
CALDER - 35 pts +
CALDER Runner Up - 20 pts +
SELKE - 30 pts +
SELKE - 20 pts +
CONN SMYTHE - 150 pts +
LESTER PEARSON - 100 pts


"HHOF Monitor" formula for DEF =
Adj Games/10 +
Adj Pts/10 +
PO Games +
PO Pts +
Top 10 DEF Goals/Season - 5 pts +
Top 10 Assist/Season - 15 pts +
Top 10 DEF Assist/Season - 5 pts +
Top 10 PTS/Season - 30 pts +
Top 10 DEF PTS/Season - 5 pts +
# 1 "+/-" /Season - 50 pts +
# 2 "+/-" /Season - 35 pts +
Cup - 50 pts +
Final - 25 pts +
All Star Game - 20 pts +
HART - 175 pts +
HART Runner Up - 150 pts +
1 ALL STAR TEAM - 75 pts +
2 ALL STAR TEAM - 50 pts +
CALDER - 35 pts +
CALDER Runner Up - 20 pts +
CONN SMYTHE - 200 pts +
NORRIS - 150 pts +
NORRIS Runner UP - 125 pts +
LESTER PEARSON - 250 pts
I have a number of questions about things that seem odd with your formula.
Why so many points for Lester Patrick and Lester pearson awards.Why do Goalies
get more points for Hart,Conn Smythe,Ist team,Second team etc.Why is there
variance among all positions?How did you "adjust " pts. etc.
How did you compensate for Conn Smythe not available to older players.
Why so few points for 1st /2nd team all stars especially defenseman/forward.

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04-24-2005, 12:56 PM
  #86
pnep
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pei fan
I have a number of questions about things that seem odd with your formula.
Why do Goalies
get more points for Hart,Conn Smythe,Ist team,Second team etc.Why is there
variance among all positions?How did you "adjust " pts. etc.
How did you compensate for Conn Smythe not available to older players.
Why so few points for 1st /2nd team all stars especially defenseman/forward.

Why so many points for Lester Patrick and Lester pearson awards?

first - in Goalie formula "LESTER B. PEARSON - 300 pts +", Lester Patrick is my typing error

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04-24-2005, 01:35 PM
  #87
pei fan
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can you answer my other questions?

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04-24-2005, 02:03 PM
  #88
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Pnep- good work. Two main questions:

1) How are you adjusting points? Is it with Klein & Reif's system?

2) What are adjusted goalie wins?

Thanks.

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04-24-2005, 02:05 PM
  #89
JCD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chooch
Thats pretty disrespectful for you to say that. I am entitled to my beliefs.
While you are entitled to you opinion, you are not entitled to respect. You have to earn that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chooch
Unlike you I've backed them up with stats since you like these.
You have not backed up a damn thing. Half the 'stats' you have produced have been wrong. When they are not, you apply them in such a bizarre and inconsistent fashion that they become meaningless.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chooch
You choose to ignore the +/- , thats ok.
That is just it, you ignore it whenever it is convient as well. Gretzky has a career mark over +500 and has the record for a +/- for a forward with a +98 season.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chooch
How far back have you watched hockey?
Long enough to know when somebody is making up crap and when their hatred overrules reason.

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04-24-2005, 02:07 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chooch
What if I admit to you that I found him generally very classy on and off the ice; a smart hockey guy and the 2nd best offensive player of his generation. Is that good enough?
Second best? Who scored more points? Career? Regular season? Play-offs? Points-per-game?

*crickets*

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04-24-2005, 02:55 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by JCD
Second best? Who scored more points? Career? Regular season? Play-offs? Points-per-game?

*crickets*
Stats thats all you guys know

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04-24-2005, 03:26 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by KOVALEV10
Stats thats all you guys know
I love ironic comedy.

What don't you tell us about goal differential again.

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04-24-2005, 04:02 PM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pei fan
Why so many points for Lester Patrick and Lester pearson awards.
From 30 players who have Pearson - 8 already in HHOF (Orr Bobby, Esposito Phil, Ratelle Jean, Clarke Bobby, Lafleur Guy, Dionne Marcel, Lemieux Mario, Gretzky Wayne), 6 will be inducted in the future(Messier Mark, Yzerman Steve, Sakic Joe, Hull Brett, Jagr Jaromir, Hasek Dominik), 4 potentially inducted (St.Louis Martin, Fedorov Sergei, Naslund Markus, Iginla Jarome) and only Liut Mike will be hardly probable inducted -- > 29 HHOers from 30 !!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by pei fan
Why do Goalies get more points for Hart,Conn Smythe,Ist team,Second team etc.
Total players who have "Hart" or "Hart Runner Up" - 164
Goalie who have "Hart" or "Hart Runner Up" - only 23

Total players who have "Conn Smythe" - 73
Goalie who have "Conn Smythe" - only 19
( http://www.hhof.com/html/newsconn.shtml for older player)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pei fan
How did you "adjust " pts. etc.
First : Yes!!! I know, that it not a best way, but better than nothing

Adjusted PTS - see "TOTAL Hockey" Book

Adjusted Games - I adjusted numbers of game played to 82 games schedule (example: Eddie Dorohoy played 16 games in 1948-49 season (all teams played 60 games) -- > Adjusted Games = 16 *82/60 = 22 Adj. games)

Adjusted Wins - like Adj Games (example:Harvey A.Bennett posted 24 wins in 1944-45 season (NHL use 50 games sсhedule) -- > Adjusted Wins=24*82/50 = 39 Adj. Wins))

Adj PO Wins - Im adjusted numbers of PO Wins to "16 wins PO" schedule (example: Hainsworth George posted 4 PO Wins in 1935-36 ("6 wins PO" schedule) -- > Adjusted Wins = 4 *16/6 = 11 Adj. PO Wins)


Quote:
Originally Posted by pei fan
Why so few points for 1st /2nd team all stars especially defenseman/forward.
From 238 players who have 1st and 2nd ALL STAR TEAM selection 106 players already in HHOF, and 42 future and potentially inducted -- > 62,2% HHOFers, not great numbers......



I apologize for my English


Last edited by pnep: 04-24-2005 at 04:28 PM.
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04-24-2005, 04:55 PM
  #94
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HHOF Monitor Points per Season

POS - Seas. - HHOF Pts - HHOF PTS/Seas. - Player Name
================================================== ====
C -- 20 -- 8827,02 -- 441,35 -- Gretzky Wayne

D -- 12 -- 4037,97 -- 336,50 -- Orr Bobby
G -- 08 -- 2564,97 -- 320,62 -- Dryden Ken
G -- 07 -- 2049,78 -- 292,83 -- Durnan Bill
C -- 16 -- 4586,35 -- 286,65 -- Lemieux Mario

G -- 13 -- 3221,51 -- 247,81 -- Hasek Dominik
R -- 10 -- 2391,58 -- 239,16 -- Bossy Mike
R -- 26 -- 6171,61 -- 237,37 -- Howe Gordie
R -- 14 -- 3237,64 -- 231,26 -- Jagr Jaromir
L -- 16 -- 3671,88 -- 229,49 -- Hull Bobby
C -- 18 -- 4096,48 -- 227,58 -- Esposito Phil
R -- 18 -- 3829,98 -- 212,78 -- Richard Maurice
C -- 20 -- 4253,44 -- 212,67 -- Beliveau Jean
D -- 22 -- 4664,82 -- 212,04 -- Bourque Ray
G -- 10 -- 2083,45 -- 208,35 -- Brimsek Frank

C -- 10 -- 1991,12 -- 199,11 -- Apps C.J. Syl
D -- 13 -- 2473,00 -- 190,23 -- Lidstrom Nicklas
L -- 07 -- 1263,24 -- 180,46 -- Drillon Gordie
R -- 17 -- 3060,04 -- 180,00 -- Lafleur Guy
G -- 18 -- 3155,64 -- 175,31 -- Hall Glenn
D -- 15 -- 2618,40 -- 174,56 -- Potvin Denis
D -- 20 -- 3467,36 -- 173,37 -- Harvey Doug
D -- 14 -- 2411,71 -- 172,27 -- Pilote Pierre
C -- 09 -- 1540,91 -- 171,21 -- Forsberg Peter
G -- 19 -- 3235,65 -- 170,30 -- Roy Patrick
G -- 18 -- 3036,02 -- 168,67 -- Plante Jacques
C -- 14 -- 2317,23 -- 165,52 -- Boucher Frank
G -- 12 -- 1966,82 -- 163,90 -- Brodeur Martin
C -- 22 -- 3583,61 -- 162,89 -- Mikita Stan
D -- 14 -- 2190,88 -- 156,49 -- Shore Eddie
C -- 14 -- 2170,92 -- 155,07 -- Morenz Howie
C -- 13 -- 1981,05 -- 152,39 -- Cowley Bill

C -- 15 -- 2207,41 -- 147,16 -- Clarke Bobby
D -- 20 -- 2925,27 -- 146,26 -- Kelly Red
C -- 14 -- 2014,89 -- 143,92 -- Lach Elmer
R -- 11 -- 1574,74 -- 143,16 -- Cook Bill
G -- 04 -- 0571,93 -- 142,98 -- Mowers John
C -- 16 -- 2277,52 -- 142,35 -- Sakic Joe
R -- 12 -- 1705,41 -- 142,12 -- Conacher Charlie
D -- 21 -- 2958,37 -- 140,87 -- Coffey Paul
L -- 17 -- 2383,07 -- 140,18 -- Lindsay Ted
G -- 07 -- 0968,03 -- 138,29 -- Gardiner Chuck
C -- 06 -- 0826,79 -- 137,80 -- St.Louis Martin
C -- 18 -- 2430,01 -- 135,00 -- Trottier Bryan
R -- 12 -- 1594,78 -- 132,90 -- Selanne Teemu
R -- 06 -- 0793,21 -- 132,20 -- Darragh Jack
G -- 21 -- 2756,29 -- 131,25 -- Sawchuk Terry
C -- 18 -- 2336,59 -- 129,81 -- Dionne Marcel
R -- 16 -- 2057,93 -- 128,62 -- Geoffrion Bernie
C -- 14 -- 1780,31 -- 127,17 -- Kennedy Ted
L -- 12 -- 1522,64 -- 126,89 -- Denneny Cy
G -- 14 -- 1774,71 -- 126,77 -- Broda Turk
D -- 17 -- 2128,31 -- 125,19 -- Park Brad
G -- 12 -- 1490,22 -- 124,19 -- Thompson Tiny
C -- 12 -- 1466,37 -- 122,20 -- Bentley Max
C -- 25 -- 3030,49 -- 121,22 -- Messier Mark
C -- 04 -- 0482,69 -- 120,67 -- Richards Brad
L -- 18 -- 2148,01 -- 119,33 -- Mahovlich Frank
C -- 06 -- 0714,35 -- 119,06 -- Lalonde Newsy
G -- 13 -- 1546,38 -- 118,95 -- Parent Bernie
R -- 09 -- 1053,31 -- 117,03 -- Iginla Jarome
L -- 03 -- 0350,90 -- 116,97 -- Kovalchuk Ilya
R -- 17 -- 1967,58 -- 115,74 -- Kurri Jari
R -- 14 -- 1601,68 -- 114,41 -- Moore Dickie
D -- 20 -- 2280,45 -- 114,02 -- Robinson Larry
L -- 10 -- 1132,04 -- 113,20 -- Kariya Paul
G -- 16 -- 1802,66 -- 112,67 -- Esposito Tony
C -- 09 -- 1006,50 -- 111,83 -- Primeau Joe
D -- 21 -- 2331,12 -- 111,01 -- Chelios Chris
R -- 19 -- 2108,73 -- 110,99 -- Hull Brett
D -- 12 -- 1307,57 -- 108,96 -- Laperriere Jacques
L -- 14 -- 1523,65 -- 108,83 -- Blake Toe
D -- 23 -- 2491,13 -- 108,31 -- Macinnis Al
C -- 14 -- 1515,40 -- 108,24 -- Fedorov Sergei
R -- 17 -- 1838,44 -- 108,14 -- Bathgate Andy
L -- 13 -- 1379,00 -- 106,08 -- Bentley Doug
C -- 15 -- 1591,04 -- 106,07 -- Stewart Nels
G -- 15 -- 1586,99 -- 105,80 -- Bower Johnny
R -- 11 -- 1161,21 -- 105,56 -- Dye Babe
L -- 11 -- 1157,85 -- 105,26 -- Schriner Sweeney
D -- 17 -- 1751,05 -- 103,00 -- Leetch Brian
C -- 16 -- 1643,44 -- 102,72 -- Schmidt Milt
C -- 13 -- 1334,96 -- 102,69 -- Nighbor Frank
C -- 11 -- 1127,60 -- 102,51 -- Lindros Eric
G -- 13 -- 1328,35 -- 102,18 -- Giacomin Ed
G -- 16 -- 1610,36 -- 100,65 -- Belfour Ed

C -- 20 -- 1992,40 -- 099,62 -- Richard Henri
D -- 10 -- 0986,79 -- 098,68 -- Cleghorn Sprague
R -- 12 -- 1179,55 -- 098,30 -- Bure Pavel
C -- 12 -- 1166,88 -- 097,24 -- Barry Marty
L -- 11 -- 1057,99 -- 096,18 -- Conacher Roy
D -- 12 -- 1143,74 -- 095,31 -- Conacher Lionel
R -- 16 -- 1513,83 -- 094,61 -- Cournoyer Yvan
L -- 11 -- 1033,03 -- 093,91 -- Naslund Markus
C -- 21 -- 1962,55 -- 093,45 -- Yzerman Steve
R -- 11 -- 1026,19 -- 093,29 -- Hextall Bryan Sr.
C -- 10 -- 0928,74 -- 092,87 -- O'Connor Buddy
R -- 06 -- 0554,03 -- 092,34 -- Hejduk Milan
C -- 05 -- 0459,72 -- 091,94 -- Gomez Scott
C -- 14 -- 1284,25 -- 091,73 -- Abel Sid
G -- 04 -- 0364,70 -- 091,18 -- Turco Marty

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04-24-2005, 04:57 PM
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCD
While you are entitled to you opinion, you are not entitled to respect. You have to earn that.
You have not backed up a damn thing. Half the 'stats' you have produced have been wrong. When they are not, you apply them in such a bizarre and inconsistent fashion that they become meaningless.

That is just it, you ignore it whenever it is convient as well. Gretzky has a career mark over +500 and has the record for a +/- for a forward with a +98 season.

Long enough to know when somebody is making up crap and when their hatred overrules reason.
So instead of saying that gertzky, the greatest goal scorer ever in your mind, did nt score 40 goals the last 12 years of his career I should have said it was 11 or something.

Big deal - you nitpick thats your problem and miss the bigger point.Even about +/- youre still missing the obvious point which everyone else understands.

As for respect I dont care what you think and neither does anyone else on this site.
Certainly not 11000 page views worth.

So again - How long is "long enough" that youve been watching hockey? 1987? Couldnt have been the season when 99 became the only Art Ross Trophy winner in nhl history to finish with a minus for the season. Is that record #62?

[MOD]


Last edited by Theokritos: 09-29-2014 at 05:51 AM. Reason: ...
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04-24-2005, 05:46 PM
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chooch
So instead of saying that gertzky, the greatest goal scorer ever in your mind, did nt score 40 goals the last 12 years of his career I should have said it was 11 or something.
Once again, your feeble attempt to 'back your point' fails well short of reality. Your first post called Gretzky a minus player for his career. Your accuracy and ability to 'back your point' hasn't improved.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chooch
Big deal - you nitpick thats your problem and miss the bigger point. Even about +/- youre still missing the obvious point which everyone else understands.
Nit-picking is saying he scored 918 goals, not 920. What we are doing is pointing out bullsnot or out-and-out lies.

The person missing the obvious point here is you. You drone on endlessly about the +/- because that is the ONLY thing you have got. Furthermore, you COMPLETELY IGNORE the statistic [MOD]. What about his +98 season? What about his > +500 career rating?

Thought so. Silent as usual.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chooch
As for respect I dont care what you think and neither does anyone else on this site. Certainly not 11000 page views worth.
[MOD] Speak for yourself, don't presume to know what others think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chooch
So again - How long is "long enough" that youve been watching hockey? 1987?
Been about 20 years. Even had a few articles published on McKeen's websie and in the Globe and Mail. I am quite comfortable with my understanding of the game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chooch
Couldnt have been the season when 99 became the only Art Ross Trophy winner in nhl history to finish with a minus for the season. Is that record #62?
If that was his only accomplishment, you might be on to something. Since he has a few DOZEN other records, you really don't.

[MOD]


Last edited by Theokritos: 09-29-2014 at 05:51 AM. Reason: making it personal
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04-24-2005, 05:47 PM
  #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chooch
So instead of saying that gertzky, the greatest goal scorer ever in your mind, did nt score 40 goals the last 12 years of his career I should have said it was 11 or something.
Hold on. The "greatest goal scorer in your [the poster's] mind..."?

How about in hockey's record books?

Sometimes, the scoreboard, the record and the stats sheets don't lie. You are what you are. As such, #99 is head and shoulders above all others all-time in terms of being the greatest - most prolific - goal scorer of all time, there is no debate. You can slice up his career numbers based on yearly output all you want, and try to suggest some weird conclusion based on the fact that his goal production is top-heavy in the first half of his career. (Big deal!) But fact is, when totalled up, there is no debate. He has scored more goals than anyone else in history.

Now, if one wants to suggest that he wasn't "the most natural sniper", etc., that's subjective and fine. (And #99 himself points to Mike Bossy as the greatest pure goal scorer of his time.) But that's another story altogether.

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04-24-2005, 09:14 PM
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCD
Once again, your feeble attempt to 'back your point' fails well short of reality. Your first post called Gretzky a minus player for his career. Your accuracy and ability to 'back your point' hasn't improved.



Nit-picking is saying he scored 918 goals, not 920. What we are doing is pointing out bullsnot or out-and-out lies.

The person missing the obvious point here is you. You drone on endlessly about the +/- because that is the ONLY thing you have got. Furthermore, you COMPLETELY IGNORE the statistic when it makes you look like a total idiot. What about his +98 season? What about his > +500 career rating?

Thought so. Silent as usual.



[MOD]


Been about 20 years. Even had a few articles published on McKeen's websie and in the Globe and Mail. I am quite comfortable with my understanding of the game.


If that was his only accomplishment, you might be on to something. Since he has a few DOZEN other records, you really don't.



[MOD]
You are So Sensitive about 99 its hilarious! I dont get personal about these things unless provoked (or if tired) ... its only hockey afterall. Not even a big league sport anymore (so much for 99' s selling of the game in the South argument ).And I've said many many times, I like Gretzky, etc etc but he is not above some gentle cristicism which for some reason in Canada is bascially like criticising the Pope.

Let me respond a little [MOD];

I ve already responded many times to what you say about +/-; I'm not silent on it at all [MOD]: 99 was a total minus for the last 12 years of a 19 year career. I know you didnt understand this in a previous thread but this one of my 2 responses which I've already stated in responses earlier. Secondly, his +98 is weak in relation to how many points he actually scored. I mean lafleur was around the same +/- (+89 was it?) in a 130 point year (you can round out the exact numbers - I dont have the time). You are free to disagree about +/- and the value of it ; no need to call me an idiot or a kid - it just shows your immaturity; I've been watching/reading about hockey much longer than you (1971).

I think originally I said somethings that 99's fans nitpicked about; its ok; just dont miss teh point; his goals/points on an offensive team in a weak West/ run and gun division/ allstar games becasue of bodyguards, hanging at centre. Thsi is getting boring. I'd rather debate with somebody more knowledgable.

And to Trottier: dont believe everything you read.


Last edited by Theokritos: 09-29-2014 at 05:53 AM. Reason: personal
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04-24-2005, 09:44 PM
  #99
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This is just pathetic. We are back to Lefleur being better than Gretzky? KL has nothing on this. BTW, Lafleur was a '-' player the last ten years of his 17 season career as well.

Back to the ignore. While you have been 'watching' hockey for longer, it seems pretty clear I have been 'understanding' it for much longer.


Last edited by JCD: 04-24-2005 at 09:52 PM.
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04-24-2005, 09:57 PM
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chooch
Secondly, his +98 is weak in relation to how many points he actually scored. I mean lafleur was around the same +/- (+89 was it?) in a 130 point year (you can round out the exact numbers - I dont have the time). You are free to disagree about +/- and the value of it
What year did they change the +/- rule? This is an honest question, I really don't have the answer, because this would make a difference.

Orr's +/- record is so high because in those days you got a + on the PP and a - on PK. However, I don't know when the rule was changed to eliminate the PP + and the PK -. It makes a difference when comparing the 70's to the 80's.

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