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2013 NHL Entry Draft Talk 6.0

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Old
04-16-2013, 08:48 AM
  #176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkovsKnee View Post
Why are we talking trades in the draft thread? OP who started the discussion posted in the wrong thread.

I'm definitely up for the Habs picking up McCoshen, or any other D with size and a bit of nastiness to his game.

Here is my wish list:

I think with our 1st we should go BPA, and I don't really care if that's a goalie, D or forward, although I think my preference is for a forward maybe someone like Hartman if he's there, but we'll see who's at our pick.

Other than that: we need to draft a goalie, a D with size who is a willing hitter and has a high compete level, and a couple of forwards with a gritty game (not necessarily in the 2nd, but at least one should be in the 2nd and then maybe a project or something in the 6th).

I'm glad MB stayed the course at the trade deadline. This isn't the year to do it. We still need a lot of depth in the organization.

This is a BIG draft for the Habs.
It did get a little off-topic.

If Fucale is picked as BPA I'll be very impressed. I think this draft sets up Timmins and Bergevin really well for drafting local players. Poirier, Dauphin, Carrier, Fucale, Erne, Mantha and even Gauthier could be impactful prospects for the Habs. I think they'll draft out of the Q not because they have to but because it's a real option this year. Lucky 2nd draft for Our Leader.

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04-16-2013, 08:48 AM
  #177
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Let's stick to the draft please. There's a thread for trades.

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Old
04-16-2013, 09:15 AM
  #178
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
For sure, he has Timmins pick written all over him. It's hard to find scouting reports on him and his skating, I am also looking for answers there.
There is a scouting report on him right on this site:

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/article...013-nhl-draft/

And it's not 100% flattering I might add.

"Although McCoshen is a scoring threat from the blueline, he has been criticized for shying away from physical play even though he has so much size.

“Showing his true colors as of late though,” says one scout, “and has demonstrated more of a cowardly presence on the ice, rather than a tough one as his size would lead you to believe.”

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04-16-2013, 09:40 AM
  #179
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Originally Posted by JohnnyReb View Post
There is a scouting report on him right on this site:

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/article...013-nhl-draft/

And it's not 100% flattering I might add.

"Although McCoshen is a scoring threat from the blueline, he has been criticized for shying away from physical play even though he has so much size.

“Showing his true colors as of late though,” says one scout, “and has demonstrated more of a cowardly presence on the ice, rather than a tough one as his size would lead you to believe.”
I'd probably chalk it up to youthful inconsistency. If he was a physical force with all of the tools, size and stats, he'd be a Top 10 pick, right? We can only expect so much from 20-30.

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04-16-2013, 10:30 AM
  #180
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My dream land scenario.
Trade plekanec to ? For a top 7 pick, draft: Elias Lindholm
Trade our 1st + one of 2nd to move up and draft : Valentin Zykov
Select with cgy/nsh 2nd: Andre Burakowski/ William Carrier
Select with mtl 2nd : John Hayden/Nik Sorensen/Nic Baptiste
Select with dallas 3rd : Marko Dano/Zach Nastasiuk
Select with MTL 3rd : Yan-Pavel Laplante/Jeremy Grégoire/JC Lipon
Select with MTL 6th : Sven Andrighetto/Felix Girard
Select with MTL 7th : Tommy Veuilleux/ Peter Quenneville

Something along those lines...

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Old
04-16-2013, 10:31 AM
  #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffrey View Post
My dream land scenario.
Trade plekanec to ? For a top 7 pick, draft: Elias Lindholm
Trade our 1st + one of 2nd to move up and draft : Valentin Zykov
Select with cgy/nsh 1st : Andre Burakowski/ William Carrier
Select with mtl 2nd : John Hayden/Nik Sorensen/Nic Baptiste
Select with dallas 3rd : Marko Dano/Zach Nastasiuk
Select with MTL 3rd : Yan-Pavel Laplante/Jeremy Grégoire/JC Lipon
Select with MTL 6th : Sven Andrighetto/Felix Girard
Select with MTL 7th : Tommy Veuilleux/ Peter Quenneville

Something along those lines...
Why are we trading Plekanec? Tanking for McDavid?

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Old
04-16-2013, 10:36 AM
  #182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffrey View Post
My dream land scenario.
Trade plekanec to ? For a top 7 pick, draft: Elias Lindholm
Trade our 1st + one of 2nd to move up and draft : Valentin Zykov
Select with cgy/nsh 2nd: Andre Burakowski/ William Carrier
Select with mtl 2nd : John Hayden/Nik Sorensen/Nic Baptiste
Select with dallas 3rd : Marko Dano/Zach Nastasiuk
Select with MTL 3rd : Yan-Pavel Laplante/Jeremy Grégoire/JC Lipon
Select with MTL 6th : Sven Andrighetto/Felix Girard
Select with MTL 7th : Tommy Veuilleux/ Peter Quenneville

Something along those lines...
Where's Subban?

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Old
04-16-2013, 11:04 AM
  #183
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Yes, Calgary and Nashville keep losing (especially Nashville). Those second rounders are looking awesome. As of this morning they are number 33 and 36. Nashville has already played 44 games as well, so there's a good chance they will fall even lower. We would need the Florida teams, as well as Carolina, Colorado to win a few games before the end of the year. The silver lining to the loss against Philly is that we improved our drafting position in the second round

I think Florida will finish in last place, as they would have to go on a big winning streak to overtake the teams in front of them. If both our picks could be in the 32-35 range, it would be fantastic.

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Old
04-16-2013, 11:11 AM
  #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Why are we trading Plekanec? Tanking for McDavid?
Nah, to ruin Galchenyuk while playing him in Plekanec's place next year.

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Old
04-16-2013, 11:22 AM
  #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Why are we trading Plekanec? Tanking for McDavid?
Yes... because dropping Plekanec put us as instant botton feeder ?
As for the question on why trading Plekanec it's called switch your core. I really like Plekanec but Lindholm would definately replace Plekanec and the some in 2 to 3 years. Are we trying to become a powerhouse for years to come or are we trying to go for it next year. I would personally target to become a powerhouse and dropping Plekanec (for the right price) is something to consider...

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Old
04-16-2013, 11:25 AM
  #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
Combine that with the play of Carey Price and boom 1st pick overall !!!!!
Overreact much?
Plekanec is an over 30 yrs old player while the other is 25 years old core player.
I would rather wait a bit before trading Pleky (a yr or 2) but that Lindholm kid is going to become a damn good top line right handed center on his own in a very short time!

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04-16-2013, 11:26 AM
  #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffrey View Post
Yes... because dropping Plekanec put us as instant botton feeder ?
As for the question on why trading Plekanec it's called switch your core. I really like Plekanec but Lindholm would definately replace Plekanec and the some in 2 to 3 years. Are we trying to become a powerhouse for years to come or are we trying to go for it next year. I would personally target to become a powerhouse and dropping Plekanec (for the right price) is something to consider...
Not sure on what planet an 18 year old rookie replaced Plekanec, but not on this one. Galchenyuk is a better prospect than Lindholm and he has had his struggles on a 3rd line and you expect a lesser prospect to step in and play a key role from day 1.

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04-16-2013, 11:30 AM
  #188
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Has anybody seen this Justin Bailey kid live? Draft eligible this year and he's a big boy at 6 foot 4 and 185 pounds. Had a decent year in Kitchener but that team has had major problems scoring this year. He still managed to finish as the 3rd highest scoring forward on his team. Wouldn't mind picking him up at one point in the draft.

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Old
04-16-2013, 11:39 AM
  #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Not sure on what planet an 18 year old rookie replaced Plekanec, but not on this one. Galchenyuk is a better prospect than Lindholm and he has had his struggles on a 3rd line and you expect a lesser prospect to step in and play a key role from day 1.
Ok let's explain this again Lindholm is not replacing Plekanec next year! No way ! He still has more to learn in Sweden but yes in 2 to 3 years he would be a good candiate to become an elite center in the NHL. Ideally I would trade either Eller or Desharnais for lindholm but no way in hell would any team would accept that!

Anyway my goal is mostly to get lindholm and not to tank for next year. Some people here are really sensitive toward plekanec.

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Old
04-16-2013, 11:52 AM
  #190
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Originally Posted by Jeffrey View Post
Ok let's explain this again Lindholm is not replacing Plekanec next year! No way ! He still has more to learn in Sweden but yes in 2 to 3 years he would be a good candiate to become an elite center in the NHL. Ideally I would trade either Eller or Desharnais for lindholm but no way in hell would any team would accept that!

Anyway my goal is mostly to get lindholm and not to tank for next year. Some people here are really sensitive toward plekanec.
It has nothing to do with sensitivity. It's dumb to trade a guy like Plekanec for a pick or prospect that has a 30-50% chance to be as good as him in 3-5 years. I don't like that value or those odds. Maybe you do it if you can get a guy like Jones or Stamkos, Lindholm is a good prospect for not THAT good.

Cripes washington traded a similar young player in Forsberg for Martin F%$#ing Erat who has about half the value of Plekanec.

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04-16-2013, 12:14 PM
  #191
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Originally Posted by MarkovsKnee View Post
Why are we talking trades in the draft thread? OP who started the discussion posted in the wrong thread.

I'm definitely up for the Habs picking up McCoshen, or any other D with size and a bit of nastiness to his game.

Here is my wish list:

I think with our 1st we should go BPA, and I don't really care if that's a goalie, D or forward, although I think my preference is for a forward maybe someone like Hartman if he's there, but we'll see who's at our pick.

Other than that: we need to draft a goalie, a D with size who is a willing hitter and has a high compete level, and a couple of forwards with a gritty game (not necessarily in the 2nd, but at least one should be in the 2nd and then maybe a project or something in the 6th).

I'm glad MB stayed the course at the trade deadline. This isn't the year to do it. We still need a lot of depth in the organization.

This is a BIG draft for the Habs.
I don't understand why any team would draft according to their current needs. It just doesn't make any sense, since the players drafted this year won't have an impact for 4 or 5 years on average. Can you seriously predict what the team's needs will be at that time? Won't management fill those current needs through other means?

You draft the BPA available in all cases.

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04-16-2013, 12:39 PM
  #192
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Originally Posted by FrankMTL View Post
Yes, Calgary and Nashville keep losing (especially Nashville). Those second rounders are looking awesome. As of this morning they are number 33 and 36. Nashville has already played 44 games as well, so there's a good chance they will fall even lower. We would need the Florida teams, as well as Carolina, Colorado to win a few games before the end of the year. The silver lining to the loss against Philly is that we improved our drafting position in the second round

I think Florida will finish in last place, as they would have to go on a big winning streak to overtake the teams in front of them. If both our picks could be in the 32-35 range, it would be fantastic.
Florida has 2 games in hand on Colorado. It's going to be interesting because I think the Avs really want Jones. He grew up in Colorado. They need a stud D. I can see Colorado trying to make moves to secure Jones. Sort of what Columbus did to get Nash.

In 2002, Florida had the 1st pick and switched with Columbus who had the 3rd pick. Columbus got Nash and Florida got Bouwmeester. Atlanta took Kari Lehtonen number 2.

Where would those three teams be if Florida had drafted Nash? Bouwmeester went to Atlanta to play with Kovalchuck and Hossa, and Lehtonen went to Columbus? I think Atlanta would've been better off. Not sure about the other 2.

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04-16-2013, 02:14 PM
  #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffrey View Post
Ok let's explain this again Lindholm is not replacing Plekanec next year! No way ! He still has more to learn in Sweden but yes in 2 to 3 years he would be a good candiate to become an elite center in the NHL. Ideally I would trade either Eller or Desharnais for lindholm but no way in hell would any team would accept that!

Anyway my goal is mostly to get lindholm and not to tank for next year. Some people here are really sensitive toward plekanec.
We have absolutely nothing in the pipe-line that can replace what Plekanec is for our team. Watch DD and Eller vs. Giroux last two games against Philly and tell me how good this team will do having them paired up against the leagues best night in and night out.

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Old
04-16-2013, 02:15 PM
  #194
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Originally Posted by FrankMTL View Post
Has anybody seen this Justin Bailey kid live? Draft eligible this year and he's a big boy at 6 foot 4 and 185 pounds. Had a decent year in Kitchener but that team has had major problems scoring this year. He still managed to finish as the 3rd highest scoring forward on his team. Wouldn't mind picking him up at one point in the draft.
I have seen every single game he played this year. Good prospect. In Kitchener, all players struggled under Spott's inept system and Bailey certainly had his issues with consistency, but the tools are all there.

He is a slick puck-handler, decent skater and has great hands and a heavy shot. He needs to work on upper body strength and I'd love to see him develop a bit of a mean streak. He'd remind you of Pacioretty in his demeanour.

But once he gains some confidence and muscle, he will be a force. He has to keep working on his skating for sure. He needs to gain a couple steps to be an effective player off the rush. But his back-checking is stellar. Strong work ethic and good hand-eye.

I can see him easily developing into a 25-30 goal guy at the NHL level with the right development. Consistency is the name of the game for him. He'll have shifts where he's the best player on the ice and is a man amongst boys, but he'll follow it up with 10 invisible shifts. All traits of a rookie in junior I guess.

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04-16-2013, 02:17 PM
  #195
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On Bailey, I meant to add that I'd be happy if the Habs snagged him with the Nashville (or our own) 2nd. Preferably our own obviously, but scouts are fickle and lazy often. Based solely on the way he embarrassed the Knights down-low on his highlight reel goal in the playoffs with over 70 scouts in the building, I'd expect he won't last past the 40th pick.

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04-16-2013, 02:18 PM
  #196
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
We have absolutely nothing in the pipe-line that can replace what Plekanec is for our team. Watch DD and Eller vs. Giroux last two games against Philly and tell me how good this team will do having them paired up against the leagues best night in and night out.
Eller as a 2 way guy and Bournival as #3 shutdown type center(a la Carbonneau).

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04-16-2013, 02:26 PM
  #197
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
It has nothing to do with sensitivity. It's dumb to trade a guy like Plekanec for a pick or prospect that has a 30-50% chance to be as good as him in 3-5 years..
thank you

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04-16-2013, 02:53 PM
  #198
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Eller as a 2 way guy and Bournival as #3 shutdown type center(a la Carbonneau).
We'll be lucky if either one of them develops the defensive prowess Plekanec has. Plekanec is part of the engine that makes this team successful. I don't see the point in trading him for futures.

It's one thing to protect your draft picks and prospects. It's another thing to trade integral pieces of your team for hopefuls.

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04-16-2013, 03:00 PM
  #199
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Wallach View Post
On Bailey, I meant to add that I'd be happy if the Habs snagged him with the Nashville (or our own) 2nd. Preferably our own obviously, but scouts are fickle and lazy often. Based solely on the way he embarrassed the Knights down-low on his highlight reel goal in the playoffs with over 70 scouts in the building, I'd expect he won't last past the 40th pick.
Great and very informative posts. Thanks as always for your interesting feedback.

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04-16-2013, 03:03 PM
  #200
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Eller as a 2 way guy and Bournival as #3 shutdown type center(a la Carbonneau).
We will be lucky if Bournival is half as good as Carbo, and I say this with high hopes for the man.

Actually, the best option within the next 4ish years to play in a Carbo role if Eller develops his offensive game more will be...Plekanec.

But yeah, this is getting off topic. I do love Lindholm though, but I don't think even Plekanec would get us a top 10 pick this year. The only teams potentially drafting in the top 10 who could desperately use Plekanec are the Oilers and Islanders (and the latter is more likely to make the playoffs at this rate), and Plek isn't waiving his NTC to either team.

So yeah, as ridiculous as a top 3 of the future of Galchenyuk, Lindholm and Eller would be, that opportunity is long gone. The highest I see us moving up without doing something dramatic would be the late teens, meaning to gun for someone like Wennberg or Erne.

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