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Comparing Edm and Montreal

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Old
04-07-2013, 12:17 AM
  #1
BarDownBobo
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Comparing Edm and Montreal

Today after the crappy Oil game ended I flipped over to the Habs/Bruins game and had a thought. Everyone seems to think that the Oilers need size to win, that you can't win on skill alone. But then I look at the Habs, who have got an absolutely tiny top 6, smaller than the Oil. I sent this in to Strudwick on the 1260 post game show, and he tried to tell me that the Habs aren't as small as people think, but I wasn't buying it. So I decided to look it up and here's what I found:

Habs Lines:
Ryder(6', 198lbs)-Plekanec(5'11", 196lbs)-Gionta(5'7", 174lbs
Pacioretty(6'2", 219lbs)-Desharnais(5'7", 177lbs)-Gallagher(5'9", 178lbs)
Galchenyuk(6'1", 196lbs)-Eller(6'2", 209lbs)-Prust(6'2", 195lbs)
Moen(6'2", 218lbs)-Halpern(6', 190lbs)-White(6'0, 194lbs)

Oil Lines:
Hall(6'1", 195lbs)-Hopkins(6'1", 185lbs)-Eberle(5'11", 184lbs)
Paajarvi(6'3", 208lbs)-Gagner(5'11", 199lbs)-Hemsky(6', 184lbs)
Jones(6'1", 201lbs)-Horcoff(6'1", 208lbs)-Yakupov(5'11", 184lbs)
Petrell(6'3", 215lbs)-Smithson(6'3", 209lbs)-Brown(5'11", 205lbs)

To me they look pretty similar, I'd even go to say that the Habs top 6 is smaller. So why is it that this Oil team can't succeed with their smaller forwards and the Habs can?

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04-07-2013, 12:19 AM
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Trafalgar McLaw
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The Habs have great puck moving defencemen who give their forwards ample opportunity to generate offense. The Oilers have Nick Schultz, Ladislav Smid, and Corey Potter.

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04-07-2013, 12:27 AM
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McDoused
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Corey Price can go into god mode, Dubnyk can't.

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04-07-2013, 12:32 AM
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The Nuge
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different conferences...

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04-07-2013, 12:39 AM
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Tarus
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Montreal has - Better vets, some power forward types sprinkled throughout roster, are in the eastern conference, much better defense core, and a much tougher and more experienced bottom 6.

The Oilers in contrast have - terrible vets, no power forward types of any sort(Hall is the closest, but he's not there yet), play in the western conference, have a poor defensive core that is much too young to be all that successful yet, and a bottom 6 of players that more often that not contribute nothing.

But the point is understandable. It's not necessarily a point of needing just "size" as many people use, but also needs to be accompanied by also grit and experience as well.

But I also think people automatically think "physical" when they say size.

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04-07-2013, 12:42 AM
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Six in O6
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Yeah, I agree with the above. Montreal has the gritty vets that play to win, have the skill to finish and are willing to put it on the line every night. I watch them fairly often since they're my second favorite team and I saw them live when they destroyed the Flyers earlier this year. They have a great mix of solid vets and young players. Very balanced roster with a lot of depth.

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04-07-2013, 12:43 AM
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lakai17
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Habs defenceman are on another level with Markov, Subban and Gorges.

Carey Price playing consistently wins games alone.

Habs veterans provide them with solid depth overall. We seem to be relying on the young guns at the moment which is fine by me.

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04-07-2013, 12:43 AM
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402
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In my mind there is two huge reasons

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Nuge View Post
different conferences...
nuge got one, the east is very very different

But the other reason and imo bigger reason is coaching
Mtl coach will be nominated for the jack adams our coach is very very bad
I've said fire krueger in the past and i still believe it 100%
If we had a better coach we would have had a much greater season, in my mind coaching is huge.

Edit
Also its about a winning culture, mtl cleaned house last season firing gm coach and assistant coach

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04-07-2013, 12:45 AM
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Hockey Buddha
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I'd say that the most striking difference on the two teams is the experience of the two teams' first lines:

Habs first line:
Ryder(33)-Plekanec(30)-Gionta(34) (average age 32.3 years)

Oil first line:
Hall(21)-Hopkins(19)-Eberle(22) (average age 20.7 years)

Give Hall, Hopkins and Eberle two more years in the league and they will be deadly.

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04-07-2013, 12:47 AM
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Insta
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Montreal has more depth and a better defense and Price.

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04-07-2013, 12:49 AM
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Insta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DousedInOil View Post
Corey Price can go into god mode, Dubnyk can't.
The difference between the oilers and habs is goaltending?

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04-07-2013, 12:55 AM
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BarDownBobo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Insta View Post
The difference between the oilers and habs is goaltending?
Yeah I'm not buying that one personally. Yeah it's true maybe Dubnyk has cost them a game or two, but he's also kept them in a lot of games they didn't deserve to be in.

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04-07-2013, 01:08 AM
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tiger_80
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This team is 2 years, 2 top 4 d-men and two 3rd line wingers away from being WC's nightmare.

Hopefully n 2 years we see X filled with gritty mean SOBs.

Hall-RNH-Eberle
Paajarvi-Gagner-Yakupov
X-X-X
Brown-Horcoff-X

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04-07-2013, 01:13 AM
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Diversity. That team has players that can fill different roles on their team. They have top-pairing D-man, top-line forwards, and quality depth.

Size doesn't mean everything. It's how you play.

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04-07-2013, 01:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey Buddha View Post
I'd say that the most striking difference on the two teams is the experience of the two teams' first lines:

Habs first line:
Ryder(33)-Plekanec(30)-Gionta(34) (average age 32.3 years)

Oil first line:
Hall(21)-Hopkins(19)-Eberle(22) (average age 20.7 years)

Give Hall, Hopkins and Eberle two more years in the league and they will be deadly.
This... Oilers midgets in their prime will be a lot deadlier than what Habs have going for themselves..
What we lack are veterans who can offensively lead this team.. Looks like everyone on our team is trying to act older than themselves.. Sorry, but Hall and Ebs you are still kids who need to be focusing on your own development instead of carrying a team on your back..

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04-07-2013, 01:35 AM
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rosemount289
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Have to Agree...........!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Insta View Post
Montreal has more depth and a better defense and Price.
The Oilers have better high end forwards but Montreal has much better defensemen and way better goaltending...............yes and their forwards are small too..........so we cannot use that as an excuse.

And remember........they were out of the playoffs too (last year) but they changed GM and changed Coaches!

Mr. Katz are you reading this?

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04-07-2013, 01:39 AM
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shoop
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiger_80 View Post
This team is 2 years, 2 top 4 d-men and two 3rd line wingers away from being WC's nightmare.

Hopefully n 2 years we see X filled with gritty mean SOBs.

Hall-RNH-Eberle
Paajarvi-Gagner-Yakupov
X-X-X
Brown-Horcoff-X
$5.5M for a fourth line centre in 2014-2015? Really?

Amnesty Horcoff this summer. No questions asked.

You forgot a true no. 1 goalie.

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04-07-2013, 01:42 AM
  #18
Lewy
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Markov, Markov, Markov. Continually shocks me how little credit he gets around here.

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04-07-2013, 02:11 AM
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T-Funk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiger_80 View Post
This team is 2 years, 2 top 4 d-men and two 3rd line wingers away from being WC's nightmare.

Hopefully n 2 years we see X filled with gritty mean SOBs.

Hall-RNH-Eberle
Paajarvi-Gagner-Yakupov
X-X-X
Brown-Horcoff-X
Hall-RNH-Eberle
Pajarvi-Gagner-Clarkson
Stalberg-Horcoff-Yakupov
Petrell/Harti-Smithson-Brown

Smid Petry JSchultz Klefbom Fistric + 1 top 4 guy

Dubey
2M backup for dubey

Would probably have you right around 64M, but Horcoff would hopefully be replaced by someone making at least 2M less by the time Nuge needs his money. Stoll as an example makes 2.25 less than Horcoff. Maybe Lander can even step in......

Seems like if you want to fix the top 6 without dumping the big 4 or Paajarvi or Gagner, you need to make it a 1A 1B 2 4 kinda thing

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04-07-2013, 02:12 AM
  #20
Mr Forever
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Markov and Subban on D make a huge difference

Price in net also

They should not have been as bad as they were last year. Where they are now isn't really indicative of a huge jump because they mightly underperformed last season.

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04-07-2013, 02:27 AM
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tiger_80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shoop View Post
$5.5M for a fourth line centre in 2014-2015? Really?

Amnesty Horcoff this summer. No questions asked.

You forgot a true no. 1 goalie.
Horcoff is UFA in 2 years. If he's still an NHL player at that point, I see no reason why they would not re-sign him at a league minimum. He will definitely play out his contract as the cap space is not currently a problem and they will not be able to replace him easily.

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Old
04-07-2013, 07:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarus View Post
Montreal has - Better vets, some power forward types sprinkled throughout roster, are in the eastern conference, much better defense core, and a much tougher and more experienced bottom 6.

The Oilers in contrast have - terrible vets, no power forward types of any sort(Hall is the closest, but he's not there yet), play in the western conference, have a poor defensive core that is much too young to be all that successful yet, and a bottom 6 of players that more often that not contribute nothing.
this + Cary Price.

... oh, and most importantly, Montreal's manager is not Steve Tambolini.

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04-07-2013, 07:44 AM
  #23
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They're in different conferences, and the East is much weaker, IMO. It's hard to compare because of that.

Oilers would be top 6 in the East, in my most humblest opinion.

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04-07-2013, 08:00 AM
  #24
DisgruntledGoat
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Retaining Moen and signing Prust were key moves for Montreal last year.

This team has consistently failed to identify and acquire quality bottom-six forwards. We prefer the Tambo-Go-Round method of pointlessly swapping in and out Stortinis/Hordichuks/Eagers/Browns each year.

Its not the only reason but its key. MTL had a toxic locker-room last year. They identified that as an issue, moved guys out accordingly, then sought out character players to address the culture.

Tambo did a good job a few years ago of moving out some entitled vets on bad contracts, but we've failed in three years to do what Montreal did in one off-season.

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Old
04-07-2013, 08:07 AM
  #25
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It's all rigged. The Habs have the refs/ league on their side. They could be full of midgets and still win the cup

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