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08-20-2013, 08:20 PM
  #601
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Holy Yadier Molina

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08-20-2013, 11:11 PM
  #602
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And holy Kolten Wong

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08-20-2013, 11:11 PM
  #603
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But seriously **** Lance Lynn

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08-20-2013, 11:23 PM
  #604
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And holy Kolten Wong
I knew that first hit would cut him loose. Once he got that off his back, he's made some great swings. He will have the team lead in stolen bases by this time next week and that's both awesome and sad at the same time.

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08-20-2013, 11:25 PM
  #605
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dam.... we have david freese on our bench.... were pretty dam good lmao

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08-21-2013, 09:11 AM
  #606
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After the game today in Milwaukee, the next 13 games are vs. either the Reds or Pirates. It's put up or shut up time Cardinals.

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08-21-2013, 09:44 AM
  #607
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Expecting a loss from Westbrook tonight, lets hope he finally recovers and shows up.

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08-21-2013, 11:02 AM
  #608
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Originally Posted by BleedinBlueSince1972 View Post
After the game today in Milwaukee, the next 13 games are vs. either the Reds or Pirates. It's put up or shut up time Cardinals.
Got a series with the Braves first. The Reds/Pirates run doesn't start until Monday.

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Originally Posted by your jaskin too much View Post
Expecting a loss from Westbrook tonight, lets hope he finally recovers and shows up.
Going into all these important game next week, he'll probably pitch well and get the win tonight. Just for the false hope it will provide.

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08-21-2013, 04:33 PM
  #609
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Well, at least we got the W. I've pretty much held off on criticism of Westbrook, but from a 7-0 lead to leaving the game at 7-5 without completing 5 innings is completely pathetic. We all know that come the postseason, if we avoid complete collapse, he'll end up in the bullpen... so at least give someone else the chance now.

I miss Carp.

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08-21-2013, 08:04 PM
  #610
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Why is Westbrook still starting.

please start Martinez or Wacha, they could use the experience.. and I'm 99% sure they'd be better than Westbrook

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08-21-2013, 09:29 PM
  #611
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Why is Westbrook still starting.

please start Martinez or Wacha, they could use the experience.. and I'm 99% sure they'd be better than Westbrook
I keep saying this, the cardinals have so many options at starter with players like Wacha, Martinez, Lyons, Manness, heck I'd even take a rookie like Nick Addition or someone to come up and provide a spark. I'm fed up with westbrook.

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08-21-2013, 10:01 PM
  #612
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Why is Westbrook still starting.

please start Martinez or Wacha, they could use the experience.. and I'm 99% sure they'd be better than Westbrook
Cuz Matheny is incompetent as manager. He would rather rest our bullpen than he would put our team in a better chance to win, as evidenced by him leaving Westbrook in last week vs the cubs.What kind of message does that send to the players?

The only reason he pulled him today when he did is because he knew the St. Louis media would turn on him if he let jake blow that one.

He refused to let Kelly start till halfway thru the season, another example of his gross incompetance. I could keep going with all the times I've found myself questioning his managerial decisions, but I digress.

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08-21-2013, 10:15 PM
  #613
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cudi View Post
Why is Westbrook still starting.

please start Martinez or Wacha, they could use the experience.. and I'm 99% sure they'd be better than Westbrook
It's not like Wacha or Martinez(especially Martinez) have really impressed in their opportunities. Wacha's debut was fantastic(which Mitchell Boggs blew), but other than that he's been VERY average. Martinez has one pitch, and it's a pitch that major league hitters are tagging to a tune of a .302 average. I would continue running with Waino, Miller, Kelly, Lynn and Westbrook because we don't have a better option at this point. Wacha may be that guy as early as next year, but I would be much more comfortable going down the stretch with Westbrook than I would with Wacha.

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08-22-2013, 04:55 AM
  #614
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Got a series with the Braves first. The Reds/Pirates run doesn't start until Monday
even worse then I imagined.

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08-22-2013, 08:56 AM
  #615
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Cuz Matheny is incompetent as manager. He would rather rest our bullpen than he would put our team in a better chance to win, as evidenced by him leaving Westbrook in last week vs the cubs.What kind of message does that send to the players?

The only reason he pulled him today when he did is because he knew the St. Louis media would turn on him if he let jake blow that one.

He refused to let Kelly start till halfway thru the season, another example of his gross incompetance. I could keep going with all the times I've found myself questioning his managerial decisions, but I digress.
To be fair, Kelly sucked early in the season. For the first month or so his ERA was over five. It wasn't like he was pitching well.

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08-22-2013, 09:16 AM
  #616
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To be fair, Kelly sucked early in the season. For the first month or so his ERA was over five. It wasn't like he was pitching well.
Kelly did not suck early on, rather he was buried in the bullpen and seldom used. He only pitched about 15 inning before he got another chance in the rotation, and his only role while in the bullpen was to limit damage. Im pretty sure he was going to be one of the players traded for peavy, but apparently chicago raised the offer just before the deadline.

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08-22-2013, 09:32 AM
  #617
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Kelly did not suck early on IMO. He was just inconsistent because he kept switching between the bullpen and rotation. Messes with a pitchers mind if you will.

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08-22-2013, 10:50 AM
  #618
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Kelly also had his chance to fight for the #5 starter in Spring Training but Miller outperformed him by a wide margin. At that time we had Waino, Garcia, Lynn, Westbrook, and Miller. Kelly didn't deserve to start. To his immense credit he clearly didn't pout about it and continued to work hard and has now solidified himself in the Cards rotation for this year and probably next year. Waino, Garcia, Miller, Lynn, and Kelly should be the Cards rotation next season unless Kelly or Lynn is forced to battle it out with Wacha in Spring for the starting job. If it comes to that, hopefully it's Lynn battling it out. Lynn was great in the bullpen, and hasn't really been anything special(despite his record) since becoming a starter. He'd be a great 7th inning guy in front of Rosenthal and Motte if/when we lose Mujica.

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08-22-2013, 12:12 PM
  #619
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Originally Posted by MattyMo35 View Post
Kelly also had his chance to fight for the #5 starter in Spring Training but Miller outperformed him by a wide margin. At that time we had Waino, Garcia, Lynn, Westbrook, and Miller. Kelly didn't deserve to start. To his immense credit he clearly didn't pout about it and continued to work hard and has now solidified himself in the Cards rotation for this year and probably next year. Waino, Garcia, Miller, Lynn, and Kelly should be the Cards rotation next season unless Kelly or Lynn is forced to battle it out with Wacha in Spring for the starting job. If it comes to that, hopefully it's Lynn battling it out. Lynn was great in the bullpen, and hasn't really been anything special(despite his record) since becoming a starter. He'd be a great 7th inning guy in front of Rosenthal and Motte if/when we lose Mujica.
First off, part of the reason Kelly lost to Miller was to solidify the bullpen. It wasn't just a competition for who would be the best 5th starter, but who would be the better reliever.

Also, Lynn has done enough to solidify himself in the rotation. He's on pace for nearly 200 k's, and anytime a pitcher has an ERA under 4 I'm happy. He's only given up 144 hits in around 161 innings, and his record has been outstanding. Honestly if a pitcher is 20-0 with a 7.00 ERA I'd keep starting him, cause obviously the team is hitting well behind him.

And just because Kelly lost to Miller, doesn't mean he sucks. It's like Halak beating out Elliot for the goalie spot, eliot doesn't suck because he lost, it's the fact that Halak playerd better. Same here, Miller just played great, while Kelly played good.

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08-22-2013, 01:06 PM
  #620
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Changing the subject, It's looking more and more like one of the Ram's 3 2nd round draft choices RB Pead is looking more and more like a bust.

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08-22-2013, 01:15 PM
  #621
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Changing the subject, It's looking more and more like one of the Ram's 3 2nd round draft choices RB Pead is looking more and more like a bust.
he had a great training camp. He'll be fine. One bad preseason game isn't gonna hurt.

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08-22-2013, 01:21 PM
  #622
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Originally Posted by your jaskin too much View Post
First off, part of the reason Kelly lost to Miller was to solidify the bullpen. It wasn't just a competition for who would be the best 5th starter, but who would be the better reliever.

Also, Lynn has done enough to solidify himself in the rotation. He's on pace for nearly 200 k's, and anytime a pitcher has an ERA under 4 I'm happy. He's only given up 144 hits in around 161 innings, and his record has been outstanding. Honestly if a pitcher is 20-0 with a 7.00 ERA I'd keep starting him, cause obviously the team is hitting well behind him.

And just because Kelly lost to Miller, doesn't mean he sucks. It's like Halak beating out Elliot for the goalie spot, eliot doesn't suck because he lost, it's the fact that Halak playerd better. Same here, Miller just played great, while Kelly played good.
No, they were in direct competition for the #5 starter. Matheny said that multiple times during the spring, and Miller outperformed him by a wide margin. There were a few outings where Miller would get the first three innings, and then Kelly would come in the next three innings so they were facing pretty much the same lineup under the same circumstances and Miller won. Simple as that.

Lynn has a ton of strikeouts, but also has a ton of walks. Both the strikeouts and walks drive up the pitch count and don't allow him to go deep into games. That pitch count isn't as much of an issue if he's out of the pen. If you need a big strikeout, Lance Lynn would be ideal in that situation. He has that overpowering fastball and a good enough breaking ball to keep hitters honest. I think he would be lights out in the pen, but the walks and strikeouts keep him from doing his job as a starter.

When did I say Kelly sucks? I believe I said the exact opposite in that he "has now solidified himself in the Cards rotation for this year and probably next year." Kelly's been great recently, but he was not as good as Miller in Spring Training. That's why he was in the bullpen. He was in direct competition with Miller, and he lost. He simply didn't have a spot. Once he got his opportunity to start again, he jumped on it.

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08-22-2013, 02:59 PM
  #623
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No, they were in direct competition for the #5 starter. Matheny said that multiple times during the spring, and Miller outperformed him by a wide margin. There were a few outings where Miller would get the first three innings, and then Kelly would come in the next three innings so they were facing pretty much the same lineup under the same circumstances and Miller won. Simple as that.

Lynn has a ton of strikeouts, but also has a ton of walks. Both the strikeouts and walks drive up the pitch count and don't allow him to go deep into games. That pitch count isn't as much of an issue if he's out of the pen. If you need a big strikeout, Lance Lynn would be ideal in that situation. He has that overpowering fastball and a good enough breaking ball to keep hitters honest. I think he would be lights out in the pen, but the walks and strikeouts keep him from doing his job as a starter.

When did I say Kelly sucks? I believe I said the exact opposite in that he "has now solidified himself in the Cards rotation for this year and probably next year." Kelly's been great recently, but he was not as good as Miller in Spring Training. That's why he was in the bullpen. He was in direct competition with Miller, and he lost. He simply didn't have a spot. Once he got his opportunity to start again, he jumped on it.
Lynn would be great in the pen, but you can't have 5 all-star starters. Lynn would be an ace on 10 or so teams in the league. He's good for where he is. Plus with Rosenthal and Siegrist in the pen, there is no need for another power pitcher.

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08-22-2013, 04:09 PM
  #624
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Lynn would be great in the pen, but you can't have 5 all-star starters. Lynn would be an ace on 10 or so teams in the league. He's good for where he is. Plus with Rosenthal and Siegrist in the pen, there is no need for another power pitcher.
Lynn would not be an ace for any team. Out of the 15 NL teams, Lynn has allowed the 5th most walks, and also has the 15th most strikeouts. With a power pitcher, you expect some walks, so it's not really a huge deal, but it does limit his ability to go deep in games. He also ranks 33rd in ERA and 31st in WHIP. That's a solid stat line. It puts him as a top-end number 3 starter, which obviously is good because Waino is at the top end of the number one starters, and Miller is a middle of the pack number 2 starter. Garcia is also a high end number 3, as is Joe Kelly when he gets the opportunity. I personally think it's in the clubs best interest to remain with Waino, Miller, Garcia, Kelly, and Lynn as a rotation for next year, but the Cards have fallen in love with Michael Wacha and think he is clearly a starter(and I agree). If somebody has to go to the bullpen, I would like it to be Lynn because he's great in short stints, but lacks the command to go deep into games consistently. Lynn, Rosenthal, Motte is an absolutely disgusting way to end the last 3 innings, combined with the DP machine Maness, situational lefty Choate, and the apparently unhittable Kevin Siegrist.

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08-22-2013, 09:28 PM
  #625
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Could our shortstop position be any more ****ed?

Seriously Pete Kozma is having just an awful year

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