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What would you trade for Roberto Luongo?

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Old
04-23-2005, 01:13 AM
  #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jericholic19
Never on earth would Foote talk about Sakic, the captain and one-time world's best player, that way.
I don't think he publicly said Sakic's name, but I bet he was referring to Joe a little bit. Come on, Joe was horrible in the 2000 playoffs. He scored 2 freakin' goals in 17 games, he's capable of scoring more goals than that.

I don't know if he was injured or what, but I never seen him play that bad before. I doubt Foote said his name out loud, but I bet they had a talk between each other.

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04-23-2005, 01:26 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by SensGod
No denying that his value is high.

You can't disregard that Havlat, Volchenov and Emery don't have enough value to an organization like the Cats who are very young an building a core of players to build a franchise around. Most teams would LOVE to have those three as their property.

The 3 players I mentioned would fit in VERY well with their philosophy...

on top of it...2 of the 3 have already interacted with their coach one on one at the NHL level.
I don't see Havlat, Volchenkov and Emery having enough value to move the best upcoming goalie in the NHL right now. I mean, Halvat is good but he is only 100K less than Lulongo and he is NOT the best upcoming winger in the league. It would be like moving Iginla during his breakout season for Havlat, Emry and Volchenkov...I don't see that having enough value.

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04-23-2005, 02:33 AM
  #103
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I'd give at least Fleury and Whitney.

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Old
04-23-2005, 03:06 AM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick - Flames Fan
I don't see Havlat, Volchenkov and Emery having enough value to move the best upcoming goalie in the NHL right now. I mean, Halvat is good but he is only 100K less than Lulongo and he is NOT the best upcoming winger in the league. It would be like moving Iginla during his breakout season for Havlat, Emry and Volchenkov...I don't see that having enough value.
I think if you add the first round pick of Ottawa that this should be enough to get Loungo. And that trade would make sense for both teams as well. I don't really see who would offer more for him. Ottawa has the players to spare (losing Havlat is bad, but he is not irreplacable on their roster) but they get a goalie that would surely be helpful in their run. The return for the Panthers is fair too. They get a very good winger (which they need) and another bluechip prospect at the defense. Plus Emery is not a bad goalie. I can actually see that trade work, and I don't believe that some team would spend more (or that they could spend more).

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04-23-2005, 05:07 AM
  #105
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Bottom line. You can't replace a guy like Luongo-no matter how high the price is.

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04-23-2005, 09:22 AM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregStack
Kaberle-Bouwmeester would be a very strong skating pairing, puckhandling pairing.
Florida would need Luongo in net if those 2 were gonna be on the ice at the same time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GregStack
Theodore has had one very good season, and most of the rest have been reasonably good, but he is not in the top five goalies around the league (Brodeur, Luongo, Belfour, Kiprusoff, Khabibulin, Esche, Denis, Roloson, and Kolzig are all goalies that most teams would prefer to have
As a Flyer fan, I'm flattered by that, but I would trade Esche + for Theo in a heartbeat. From that list, I'd rank only the first 2 ahead of him at the moment. Throw in Khabibulin too, if age isn't a factor.

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04-23-2005, 09:31 AM
  #107
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From Philly:
Esche
Handzus
Ruzicka

Or if you really pushed me

Esche
Carter or Richards

Not sure if that would get it done or not, but that's as high as I'd be willing to go to upgrade from Esche to Luongo.

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Old
04-23-2005, 10:42 AM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by salzy
From Philly:
Esche
Handzus
Ruzicka

Or if you really pushed me

Esche
Carter or Richards

Not sure if that would get it done or not, but that's as high as I'd be willing to go to upgrade from Esche to Luongo.
No way. More like, Esche, Pitkanen, Primeau OR Carter, 1st OR 2nd round pick (if 2nd, add another defensemen into the deal and I think it's fair).

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04-23-2005, 10:46 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Crossroads
No way. More like, Esche, Pitkanen, Primeau OR Carter, 1st OR 2nd round pick (if 2nd, add another defensemen into the deal and I think it's fair).
Oh dear god. Are you out of your mind? Look, we all know Luongo is a better goalie than Esche. I might even go so far as to say significantly better. But you HONESTLY think the difference between Esche and Luongo is Pitkannen, Primeau and a 1st round pick? Are you his dad?

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Old
04-23-2005, 10:47 AM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by salzy
Oh dear god. Are you out of your mind? Look, we all know Luongo is a better goalie than Esche. I might even go so far as to say significantly better. But you HONESTLY think the difference between Esche and Luongo is Pitkannen, Primeau and a 1st round pick?
Luongo is a FRANCHISE goaltender and is significantly better than Esche. The difference between the two goaltenders is worth Esche, Pitkanen, Primeau and a 1st/2nd.

With Luongo the Flyers would actually have a chance to win the cup.

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04-23-2005, 10:55 AM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crossroads
Luongo is a FRANCHISE goaltender and is significantly better than Esche. The difference between the two goaltenders is worth Esche, Pitkanen, Primeau and a 1st/2nd.
I KNOW he is a franchise goalie and I said he may SIGNIFICANTLY better. However, the difference between the 2 is not anywhere near as great as you are suggesting and certainly not large enough to give up such an enormous part of the team and the future.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crossroads
With Luongo the Flyers would actually have a chance to win the cup.
They have a chance to win the Cup every year, with Luongo or without. Giving up Primeau would reduce those chances a great deal. Much more than Luongo-Esche would improve them. In the long run, giving up Pitkanen and the 1st rounder would damage their chances even further.

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04-23-2005, 11:01 AM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crossroads
Luongo is a FRANCHISE goaltender and is significantly better than Esche. The difference between the two goaltenders is worth Esche, Pitkanen, Primeau and a 1st/2nd.

With Luongo the Flyers would actually have a chance to win the cup.

a leaf fan casting dispersions on someone's chances of winning the cup?

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04-23-2005, 11:03 AM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nomorekids
a leaf fan casting dispersions on someone's chances of winning the cup?
That's "aspersions", genius.

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Old
04-23-2005, 11:04 AM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nomorekids
a leaf fan casting dispersions on someone's chances of winning the cup?
Oh, I didn't realize that. It all makes sense now.

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Old
04-23-2005, 11:09 AM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by salzy
I KNOW he is a franchise goalie and I said he may SIGNIFICANTLY better. However, the difference between the 2 is not anywhere near as great as you are suggesting and certainly not large enough to give up such an enormous part of the team and the future.
The difference between the two IS as great as I'm suggesting. I'll put it in a way to make it better for you to understand; your team is down 3-1 in a series in the playoffs. Who would you rather have on your team when you're in that situation? Luongo or Esche? Which goaltender has a greater chance of getting your team out of that situation? Luongo can pick up his game to another level and I believe Esche cannot. Also, Luongo is much better than Esche positionally and mentally.

For this reason, Luongo is worth what I mentioned above.

Quote:
They have a chance to win the Cup every year, with Luongo or without. Giving up Primeau would reduce those chances a great deal. Much more than Luongo-Esche would improve them. In the long run, giving up Pitkanen and the 1st rounder would damage their chances even further.
No, they do not have a realistic chance to win the cup every year. They lack defense and goaltending to get them there. However, with a goaltender like Luongo, your chances to win the cup are raised (you can have a good forward unit, poor defense corps and an EXCELLENT goaltender and still go far in the playoffs). As of now, the Flyers have a good forward unit, poor defense corps and mediocre goaltending. Most teams take away from what they have an abundance of (forwards in the Flyers case) to improve areas of weakness (goaltending is the most important need to address for the Flyers).

With an excellent goaltender, the Flyers can go to the cup. Without one, they'll always fall short due to poor defense.

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04-23-2005, 11:11 AM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nomorekids
a leaf fan casting dispersions on someone's chances of winning the cup?
How the heck did you become a mod? Your job is supposed to be to help disperse flame wars, however, you start and/or fuel them.

Oh and what is dispersions? Oh I think you mean aspersions.

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04-23-2005, 11:32 AM
  #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crossroads
How the heck did you become a mod? Your job is supposed to be to help disperse flame wars, however, you start and/or fuel them.

Oh and what is dispersions? Oh I think you mean aspersions.

it's nice to see that in the midst of all your attempts to troll\incite flyers fans, you still have time to give a vocabulary lesson.

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04-23-2005, 11:34 AM
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nomorekids
it's nice to see that in the midst of all your attempts to troll\incite flyers fans, you still have time to give a vocabulary lesson.
How am I trolling? I am stating my opinion and giving reasons behind why I believe Luongo will get the Flyers to the cup and Esche will not (and thus, the rather large deal to get Luongo there).

I am definitely not trolling. If anyone was, it was you with the comment to Leaf fans.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nomorekids
a leaf fan casting dispersions on someone's chances of winning the cup?

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04-23-2005, 11:38 AM
  #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crossroads
How am I trolling? I am stating my opinion and giving reasons behind why I believe Luongo will get the Flyers to the cup and Esche will not (and thus, the rather large deal to get Luongo there).

I am definitely not trolling. If anyone was, it was you with the comment to Leaf fans.

Do you think i don't see the patterns in your posting? and it's not just you, i'll admit. there are flyers fans that do it to the leafs, as well...and i'll call them out on it, as well. it just so HAPPENS that any thread in which a flyers player\prospect is mentioned, you seem to be conveniently right there to chime in. what did esche have to do with the flyers lack of a cup last year? nothing. luongo wouldnt' have made a difference...but it provided you the opportunity to throw that "you might actually win a cup" comment.

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04-23-2005, 11:42 AM
  #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nomorekids
Do you think i don't see the patterns in your posting? and it's not just you, i'll admit. there are flyers fans that do it to the leafs, as well...and i'll call them out on it, as well. it just so HAPPENS that any thread in which a flyers player\prospect is mentioned, you seem to be conveniently right there to chime in. what did esche have to do with the flyers lack of a cup last year? nothing. luongo wouldnt' have made a difference...but it provided you the opportunity to throw that "you might actually win a cup" comment.
Salzy asked if the difference between Esche and Luongo is that big to warrent the package that would be required to get Luongo there. I said yes and provided reasons as to why I think so (with Luongo, the Flyers have a chance at the cup, without him, they don't). That is the whole purpose as to why teams make moves, to help them get to the next level.

Luongo gets the Flyers to the next level, Esche does not.

Oh and by the way, that is my opinion. If you don't agree with it, it is NOT trolling.

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04-23-2005, 11:48 AM
  #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crossroads
Salzy asked if the difference between Esche and Luongo is that big to warrent the package that would be required to get Luongo there. I said yes and provided reasons as to why I think so (with Luongo, the Flyers have a chance at the cup, without him, they don't). That is the whole purpose as to why teams make moves, to help them get to the next level.

Luongo gets the Flyers to the next level, Esche does not.

Oh and by the way, that is my opinion. If you don't agree with it, it is NOT trolling.

it just seems a little more than convenient to me that you have a lot of these "opinions" when it comes to the flyers and their prospects\players.

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04-23-2005, 11:56 AM
  #122
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Since when do the Flyers have "a poor defense corps and mediocre goaltending?" If you were talking about the Flyers of the late-90s, I'd probably agree. But our top 6 is solid, if not Calgary,Colorado, etc., and Esche is a top 10-15 goalie in the NHL right now. Niittymaki as our backup is probably already better than a few #1s in the league.

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04-23-2005, 11:58 AM
  #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nomorekids
it just seems a little more than convenient to me that you have a lot of these "opinions" when it comes to the flyers and their prospects\players.
No offense to you or anything but you should be the last person criticizing someone over 'trolling'. You are always inciting Leaf fans (look a few posts up) or trying to get rises out of people (like the Edmonton versus Nashville prospects thread).

But whatever, I'm done arguing with you.

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04-23-2005, 12:00 PM
  #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crossroads
The difference between the two IS as great as I'm suggesting. I'll put it in a way to make it better for you to understand; your team is down 3-1 in a series in the playoffs. Who would you rather have on your team when you're in that situation?
That's a difficult question to answer since Luongo has never played in a playoff game. The only comparable situations I can remember are the 98 WJC (0-2), the 99 WJC (impressive, but came up short in the gold medal game) and last summer's World Cup (he was less than impressive, but got the win).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crossroads
Who would you rather have on your team when you're in that situation? Luongo or Esche? Which goaltender has a greater chance of getting your team out of that situation? Luongo can pick up his game to another level and I believe Esche cannot. Also, Luongo is much better than Esche positionally and mentally. For this reason, Luongo is worth what I mentioned above.
Funny, he's never proven any of that yet, but you are certain it's all true. And to a certain extent, I would assume he would be better if given the chance too - I've been clear on that. But none of that matters - the question is "who would I rather have in that situation - Luongo OR Esche PLUS Primeau, Pitkannen and whoever they draft with the #1"? Unequivocally, the latter package provides a much greater opportunity to "get out of" that situation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crossroads
TNo, they do not have a realistic chance to win the cup every year. They lack defense and goaltending to get them there. However, with a goaltender like Luongo, your chances to win the cup are raised (you can have a good forward unit, poor defense corps and an EXCELLENT goaltender and still go far in the playoffs). As of now, the Flyers have a good forward unit, poor defense corps and mediocre goaltending.
Leaf fans are adorable.

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04-23-2005, 12:02 PM
  #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crossroads
No offense to you or anything but you should be the last person criticizing someone over 'trolling'. You are always inciting Leaf fans (look a few posts up) or trying to get rises out of people (like the Edmonton versus Nashville prospects thread).

But whatever, I'm done arguing with you.

as i've said in the past...it's hard to "troll" against 29 other teams in the league, and yet it seems at least one fan per team thinks i hate their team.

as far as the oilers go..they're my second favorite team. i made an honest poll because a poster on the oilers board(i bet you missed that one, huh?) was going on about how edmonton's prospects were far better than nashville's. i illustrated a point. it's not like i created it on a whim.

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