HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The Business of Hockey
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, expansion and relocation, and NHL revenues.

OT: Buffalo Bills owner Ralph Wilson passes away at 95

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-25-2014, 02:26 PM
  #1
Mightygoose
I Am Groot
 
Mightygoose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Ajax, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,716
vCash: 500
OT: Buffalo Bills owner Ralph Wilson passes away at 95

Bills owner Ralph Wilson passes away at 95

http://www.tsn.ca/nfl/story/?id=447323

See the Bills to TO heat up


Last edited by Mightygoose: 03-30-2014 at 08:14 PM.
Mightygoose is offline  
Old
03-25-2014, 02:39 PM
  #2
Fugu
Administrator
HFBoards
 
Fugu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: ϶(o)ϵ
Posts: 31,237
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightygoose View Post
Bills owner Ralph Wilson passes away at 95

http://www.tsn.ca/nfl/story/?id=447323

See the Bills to TO rumours heat up

Mods: If you feel this needs it's own thread or moved, feel free.

Are these rumors legitimate, or just wishful thinking by those who'd like any NFL team in TO?

What I mean is if there have been any leaks to indicate that's even a consideration. I know Lieweke is working on getting MLSE a team.

Fugu is offline  
Old
03-25-2014, 02:44 PM
  #3
Brodie
it's iggy szn
 
Brodie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Michigan
Country: United Kingdom
Posts: 12,939
vCash: 500
Well, the team will be sold as per his wishes. It's just a matter of seeing who bids... I'd bet a large amount of money that Gosliano or Pegula (both of whom have said in interviews they'd be interested) buy the team with very little noise coming from Toronto at all.

Brodie is offline  
Old
03-25-2014, 02:52 PM
  #4
Mightygoose
I Am Groot
 
Mightygoose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Ajax, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,716
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
Are these rumors legitimate, or just wishful thinking by those who'd like any NFL team in TO?

What I mean is if there have been any leaks to indicate that's even a consideration. I know Lieweke is working on getting MLSE a team.
I guess we'll find out in the coming weeks I think

Either way the Bills lease does not have an out for another 6 years. Anything outside of that has quite a hefty penalty is break. 400 million I believe.

That said, I think that will give an edge to anyone/group that wants to keep the team in Western NY. Being the only team in the state proper, can't see the team leaving without allot of politics.

Mightygoose is offline  
Old
03-25-2014, 02:53 PM
  #5
cutchemist42
Registered User
 
cutchemist42's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,846
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brodie View Post
Well, the team will be sold as per his wishes. It's just a matter of seeing who bids... I'd bet a large amount of money that Gosliano or Pegula (both of whom have said in interviews they'd be interested) buy the team with very little noise coming from Toronto at all.
I told myself I wouldn't go into this speculation today, I will only say it will get interesting after years of speculation of what the next NFL movement might be.

RIP Ralph

cutchemist42 is offline  
Old
03-25-2014, 03:38 PM
  #6
No Fun Shogun
Global Moderator
34-38-61-10-13
 
No Fun Shogun's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Shogunate of Nofunia
Country: Fiji
Posts: 33,303
vCash: 5113
Sad to hear about Ralph passing. And while I do hate to speculate on anything following the passing of a human being, the sad fact is that the odds of the Bill staying in Buffalo does take a dramatic drop with his passing, especially if the team gets sold outside of the family.

__________________

Nerd, don't estimate all humanity by the limitations of your own capability. - Steve Smith, Professor of History, University of China, IL
No Fun Shogun is offline  
Old
03-25-2014, 03:39 PM
  #7
cutchemist42
Registered User
 
cutchemist42's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,846
vCash: 500
In case anyone wants to listen to the last PTS/Toronto media/Buffalo media discussed the topic.

http://tunein.com/topic/?TopicId=67173456

cutchemist42 is offline  
Old
03-25-2014, 04:20 PM
  #8
Evil Doctor
Damn you Taylor Reed
 
Evil Doctor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Cambridge, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,251
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
Are these rumors legitimate, or just wishful thinking by those who'd like any NFL team in TO?

What I mean is if there have been any leaks to indicate that's even a consideration. I know Lieweke is working on getting MLSE a team.
I will say the same thing I've said before, it's just wishful thinking. Yes Roger's and Lieweke is interested in acquiring a team but seriously there is no chance. Between the lack of stadium and the dumpster fire that Bills in Toronto was it's clear the NFL has no interest in Toronto and will probably block any move to go there. Ralph Wilson's death has not changed the dynamics in any way...

Evil Doctor is offline  
Old
03-25-2014, 09:48 PM
  #9
scotchex
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 569
vCash: 500
It's clear that the NFL has strong interest in Toronto. Hard to see how anyone is unable to see that. Of course, they aren't really unable to see it, just unwilling.

scotchex is offline  
Old
03-26-2014, 12:02 AM
  #10
Evil Doctor
Damn you Taylor Reed
 
Evil Doctor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Cambridge, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,251
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by scotchex View Post
It's clear that the NFL has strong interest in Toronto. Hard to see how anyone is unable to see that. Of course, they aren't really unable to see it, just unwilling.
The people that think that the NFL are coming to Toronto are much like those that still think the NHL is coming to Markham. Some people are just incapable of taking a hint....

Evil Doctor is offline  
Old
03-26-2014, 07:17 AM
  #11
eliostar
Registered User
 
eliostar's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,077
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Doctor View Post
I will say the same thing I've said before, it's just wishful thinking. Yes Roger's and Lieweke is interested in acquiring a team but seriously there is no chance. Between the lack of stadium and the dumpster fire that Bills in Toronto was it's clear the NFL has no interest in Toronto and will probably block any move to go there. Ralph Wilson's death has not changed the dynamics in any way...
MOD
How in the world do you come to the conclusion that the NFL is not interested in Toronto. Not to mention they would not be able to block any move.


Last edited by Fugu: 03-26-2014 at 08:26 AM. Reason: personal shot
eliostar is online now  
Old
03-26-2014, 09:38 AM
  #12
Evil Doctor
Damn you Taylor Reed
 
Evil Doctor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Cambridge, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,251
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by eliostar View Post
MOD
How in the world do you come to the conclusion that the NFL is not interested in Toronto. Not to mention they would not be able to block any move.
Repeated comments from the commissioner to the effect that Toronto is regarded as part of Buffalo's territory and that they desire to keep the Bills in Buffalo.

Toronto is simply not on their radar. There are several American markets they wish to go to first (and top of that list is LOS ANGELES.) The failure of the Bills in Toronto series also showed the NFL that Toronto would simply not be a good market. Oh and the fact that Toronto would be a ratings and revenue drag on the league.

Also the NFL changed the rules so that Al Davis type of moves will no longer be possible. The NFL can also reject the ownership if they feel their goal is to move the franchise. A moot point since the Bills are locked into a long term lease...

Oh and let us also not forget...

TORONTO DOESN'T HAVE A SUITABLE STADIUM...

Evil Doctor is offline  
Old
03-26-2014, 10:40 AM
  #13
IME
Registered User
 
IME's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: The Cloud
Country: Canada
Posts: 523
vCash: 3029
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightygoose View Post
I guess we'll find out in the coming weeks I think

Either way the Bills lease does not have an out for another 6 years. Anything outside of that has quite a hefty penalty is break. 400 million I believe.

That said, I think that will give an edge to anyone/group that wants to keep the team in Western NY. Being the only team in the state proper, can't see the team leaving without allot of politics.
I haven't been following the lease deal, but from a cursory search, the termination fee is only around 28 Million. http://www2.erie.gov/exec/index.php?...rms-summary%20

Hopefully I'm mistaken, because 28M doesn't seem like a significant obstacle

IME is offline  
Old
03-26-2014, 10:47 AM
  #14
cutchemist42
Registered User
 
cutchemist42's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,846
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by IME View Post
I haven't been following the lease deal, but from a cursory search, the termination fee is only around 28 Million. http://www2.erie.gov/exec/index.php?...rms-summary%20

Hopefully I'm mistaken, because 28M doesn't seem like a significant obstacle
I read its $400 million for the first 7or8 years then drops after that.

cutchemist42 is offline  
Old
03-26-2014, 10:50 AM
  #15
IME
Registered User
 
IME's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: The Cloud
Country: Canada
Posts: 523
vCash: 3029
Quote:
Originally Posted by cutchemist42 View Post
I read its $400 million for the first 7or8 years then drops after that.
You're right. After scanning the actual set of agreements, it looks like the 28M is the Termination Fee if the Bills terminate during the lease's 7th year.

If they relocate outside that 7th year window, they owe Erie County 400M (as far as I know, anyways)

IME is offline  
Old
03-26-2014, 11:29 AM
  #16
cutchemist42
Registered User
 
cutchemist42's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,846
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by IME View Post
You're right. After scanning the actual set of agreements, it looks like the 28M is the Termination Fee if the Bills terminate during the lease's 7th year.

If they relocate outside that 7th year window, they owe Erie County 400M (as far as I know, anyways)
Yep, here's a piece from a recent article.

Quote:
It wont happen overnight. The team is tied by a lease to publicly owned Ralph Wilson Stadium until 2023. Breaking the deal before then would include a $400-million penalty, but the contract has an out clause in 2020 where the team can move at a penalty of $28.4 million. If something is going to happen with the Bills, put that date in stone.
http://www.sportsnet.ca/football/nfl...e-in-question/

cutchemist42 is offline  
Old
03-26-2014, 01:09 PM
  #17
PCSPounder
Registered User
 
PCSPounder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Portland. So there.
Country: United States
Posts: 1,239
vCash: 500
Is this where I reveal my favorite conspiracy theory of this hour and say that Rob Ford is hanging on to his job just to try to convert BMO to an NFL-ready stadium?

Another site?

BTW, to all the people protesting that Toronto is on the radar, I'll just say that if the whispers of the league + the media pointing to Los Angeles and London for the better part of a year suddenly have to switch to Los Angeles and Toronto, a certain type of American expansionist fan will be disappointed. There's more of those than I care to address.

PCSPounder is offline  
Old
03-26-2014, 01:54 PM
  #18
Rocko604
Registered User
 
Rocko604's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Vancouver, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,795
vCash: 500
The Bills in TO series was cancelled for 2014 after the horrible turnout last year. That should give a good indication just how much TO is on the radar. Plus, no stadium.

The NFL goes to Toronto the day the NHL goes to Regina.

Rocko604 is offline  
Old
03-26-2014, 04:50 PM
  #19
htpwn
Registered User
 
htpwn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Toronto
Country: Poland
Posts: 14,114
vCash: 500
Numerous reports, numerous people in the know in this City, have hinted that a lot is going on behind the scenes.

Whether that results in team relocating here? Who knows? But I'm not sure I'd be so quick to dismiss the possibility.

htpwn is online now  
Old
03-26-2014, 06:21 PM
  #20
berklon
Registered User
 
berklon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 883
vCash: 500
There's definitely a lot going on behind the scenes. This isn't just pie in the sky wishful thinking. For those who have the right contacts on Bay St., this definitely has legs.

It doesn't mean it's a lock or anything - there are a lot of ducks to get in a row. But there's a serious attempt being made.

Any way you slice it, the Bills aren't long for Buffalo - regardless if Toronto happens or not.

berklon is offline  
Old
03-26-2014, 06:31 PM
  #21
Ewan McGregor
Registered User
 
Ewan McGregor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,048
vCash: 1053
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Doctor View Post
Repeated comments from the commissioner to the effect that Toronto is regarded as part of Buffalo's territory and that they desire to keep the Bills in Buffalo.

Toronto is simply not on their radar. There are several American markets they wish to go to first (and top of that list is LOS ANGELES.) The failure of the Bills in Toronto series also showed the NFL that Toronto would simply not be a good market. Oh and the fact that Toronto would be a ratings and revenue drag on the league.

Also the NFL changed the rules so that Al Davis type of moves will no longer be possible. The NFL can also reject the ownership if they feel their goal is to move the franchise. A moot point since the Bills are locked into a long term lease...

Oh and let us also not forget...

TORONTO DOESN'T HAVE A SUITABLE STADIUM...
if the Bills ceases to exist, the NFL wouldn't even feel it. "ratings and revenue drag" lol

Ewan McGregor is offline  
Old
03-27-2014, 09:45 AM
  #22
Evil Doctor
Damn you Taylor Reed
 
Evil Doctor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Cambridge, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,251
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ewan McGregor View Post
if the Bills ceases to exist, the NFL wouldn't even feel it. "ratings and revenue drag" lol
[MOD]

And now for the NFL commissioner take on it....

Bills staying put for now following Wilson's death

Quote:
''Well, I haven't focused on that,'' NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell said when asked about the franchise's future at league meetings in Orlando, Fla. ''We know the terms of that lease. And we also know we have to find a long-term solution to keep the Bills there, and that's what we'll continue to work to do.''
Yeah, he sounds SO excited about the prospect of a Toronto franchise...


Last edited by Major4Boarding: 03-27-2014 at 10:44 AM. Reason: Easy now, ED
Evil Doctor is offline  
Old
03-27-2014, 05:33 PM
  #23
eliostar
Registered User
 
eliostar's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,077
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocko604 View Post
The Bills in TO series was cancelled for 2014 after the horrible turnout last year. That should give a good indication just how much TO is on the radar. Plus, no stadium.

The NFL goes to Toronto the day the NHL goes to Regina.
People in Toronto wont support someone elses team, that series says nothing about its ability to support a team.

eliostar is online now  
Old
03-27-2014, 07:23 PM
  #24
DrillingForOil
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 168
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by eliostar View Post
People in Toronto wont support someone elses team, that series says nothing about its ability to support a team.
Super lame excuse, especially if Toronto is calling itself as a legitimate NFL city. It's not even just about supporting the Bills at those games, but the away teams too.

The way I see it is it is a long way from NFL to come to Toronto.

1. No stadium... The ownership would have to pay 100% of the tab, as there is no way any government will help invest in Americas game... Add to that too of the substandard tailgating, if any at all....
2. I don't see ratings for NFL in Canada to increase much at all Look at the Blue Jays ratings across the country), in fact I think NFL ratings as a whole would decrease.. No way Buffalo fans would tune in... AndWho in the States will actually want to tune in?
3. The potential death of the CFL... The NFL currently has an awesome situation with the CFL, in that many players overlooked by NFL teams can be developed/recognized in the CFL. Call it an unofficial development league. Look at the fact that over the past 3-4 yrs the investments of around $1billion for new/refurbished CFL stadiums
4. The potential for the CFL to outshine the NFL competitor in Canada. It would absolutely not surprise me if the weekly ratings for any 1 CFL game beats any given T.O. NFL game... In fact I'd almost expect this would happen. Also the fact that if the Argos are still around when an NFL team moves in, the ratings for the Argos is higher than the NFL team... There is definitely that potential

For those reasons, and I'm certain there are more, the NFL won't be coming for a long time. To me it seems the NFL has too much to lose


As far as the CFL is concerned, buying the Argos is a super low risk, high reward investment. I hear $20M price tag, for a team in a metro pop. of 6M. If world class cities like Montreal and Vancouver are able to make profit, why not Toronto? All it would take in a metro like T.O is a little bit of marketing, and how much fun it will be to go to a game at BMO. The skydome is simply an uneventful lousy atmosphere.

That is my take on the situation.

DrillingForOil is offline  
Old
03-27-2014, 08:05 PM
  #25
Leafield
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 7
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrillingForOil View Post
Super lame excuse, especially if Toronto is calling itself as a legitimate NFL city. It's not even just about supporting the Bills at those games, but the away teams too.

The way I see it is it is a long way from NFL to come to Toronto.

1. No stadium... The ownership would have to pay 100% of the tab, as there is no way any government will help invest in Americas game... Add to that too of the substandard tailgating, if any at all....
2. I don't see ratings for NFL in Canada to increase much at all Look at the Blue Jays ratings across the country), in fact I think NFL ratings as a whole would decrease.. No way Buffalo fans would tune in... AndWho in the States will actually want to tune in?
3. The potential death of the CFL... The NFL currently has an awesome situation with the CFL, in that many players overlooked by NFL teams can be developed/recognized in the CFL. Call it an unofficial development league. Look at the fact that over the past 3-4 yrs the investments of around $1billion for new/refurbished CFL stadiums
4. The potential for the CFL to outshine the NFL competitor in Canada. It would absolutely not surprise me if the weekly ratings for any 1 CFL game beats any given T.O. NFL game... In fact I'd almost expect this would happen. Also the fact that if the Argos are still around when an NFL team moves in, the ratings for the Argos is higher than the NFL team... There is definitely that potential

For those reasons, and I'm certain there are more, the NFL won't be coming for a long time. To me it seems the NFL has too much to lose


As far as the CFL is concerned, buying the Argos is a super low risk, high reward investment. I hear $20M price tag, for a team in a metro pop. of 6M. If world class cities like Montreal and Vancouver are able to make profit, why not Toronto? All it would take in a metro like T.O is a little bit of marketing, and how much fun it will be to go to a game at BMO. The skydome is simply an uneventful lousy atmosphere.

That is my take on the situation.
Yeah well that is the way YOU see it...

1. so a stadium has to be built like every other stadium is built in the nfl so this is no obstacle for very deep pockets.

2. mlb ratings would be a tiny fraction of what they are if not for the blue jays so your point? besides, nfl gets massive ratings period regardless of the markets playing.

3. cfl will not die. hardly anyone in toronto cares for the cfl as it is and it will continue to thrive in smaller markets regardless of a toronto nfl team.

4. there will be ZERO potential for the cfl to outshine or out rate the nfl in toronto and the surrounding area. none whatsoever.

nfl has nothing to lose except even more major dollars by not exploiting a big league market like toronto. as for torontonians not supporting the bills...why should they? why would any city support a team from somewhere else trying to pass off as their own? you think L.A. would support the san diego chargers if they called san diego home instead of L.A.?

Leafield is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:06 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.